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Christianity Etc › Re: Answers To Jehovah Witnesses Devil-inspired Questions About JESUS CHRIST!!! by brocab: 1:34am On Dec 04, 2017

37 Scriptures That Prove Christians Are Not Under The Law
So many different organisations, Christians from all walks of life, fail to realise they are no longer under the law, but they are taught as they are, and many Christians are walking in the flesh under the Old Covenant reality.
Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!, those who have chosen to stay under the law are cursed.
Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke.(Acts 15:10)
Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)
If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)
The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)
The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)
Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)
Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)
The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)
The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)
The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)
The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)
1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)
2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)
The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)
The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)
The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)
Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. Tithes is part of that law..(2 Corinthians 3:14-15)
Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)
Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)
The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)
To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)
The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)
The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)
The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)
The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)
If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)
The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)
The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)
Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)
Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4- cool

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1: cool

(see next verse for the context)
It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)
Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)
God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7- cool

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)
It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
THIS IS WHAT THE LAW DOES TO YOU, IF YOU CHOSE TO OBEY THE MOSAIC LAW, IT WON'T SAVE YOU, NOR WILL IT BRING YOU CLOSER TO CHRIST// THE FRUIT OF THE LAW IS DEATH..

Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 12:53am On Dec 04, 2017

This is always the same old argument with JW's, they are not of Us, nor do they preach the Word of God to be one of Us.
{John 17:21} I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me, through their message. That all of them maybe one, as You Father are in Me and "I" in You, May they also be in Us, so the world may believe that You sent Me.
Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"
Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God.
Take for example Jesus’ words in {John 10:30} “I and the Father are one.”
We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God.
They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence.
{John 8:58} is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14)
These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh.
{Acts 20:28} tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ.
And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28).
Jesus does not correct him.
{Titus 2:13} encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1).
In {Hebrews 1:8} the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10)
Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38).
He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did.
There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2)
A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God.
Only God could pay such an infinite penalty.
Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21) die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 12:20am On Dec 04, 2017

{Luke 5:21} Not only did He pray-He forgave sins, no-one can forgive sins, but Jehovah God alone..
I suppose I could ask you this question? Why didn't Elijah and Moses visit God in heaven, while they were already there in Spirit, instead they came to Jesus in Spirit on the Mount?
Is it because they made the wrong turn-all maybe Elijah and Moses did visit Emmanuel in Spirit, Jehovah God who became flesh and lived among men..

Crysthaniel:
if Jesus now Is the God , why did he pray every time he wanted to perform the miracles.. Especially the one of Lazarus?? Jesus truly say his motives for praying before he say words to Lazarus John 11:41-42 he wanted all to know that he is not the one doing the works that there is a father greater than him in the heaven who has sent him to the earth. John14:28.:john 17:3

Christianity Etc › Re: Answers To Jehovah Witnesses Devil-inspired Questions About JESUS CHRIST!!! by brocab: 11:57pm On Dec 03, 2017*

Bro I am still waiting for you to proceed, lets talk trinity-but for now explain to me, you claim to know the Spirit of the Lord, then how come you preach another doctrine, by this you had denied Him..

JMAN05:
I am a JW. I know the spirit of the lord. We may disagree on something but let's see the evidence we both have. So can we proceed?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:15pm On Dec 03, 2017*

Again you haven't answered it correctly, and again you don't understand the scriptures, not spirituality, naturally you see something, this is why you are having trouble not understanding the scriptures, nothing makes any sense to you, try this one "Jesus said I and the Father are one, how does this sound to you, what does this mean?
A wife can not be called are husband visa versa, you are only looking at this in the natural, try understanding this in the spirit? Have you heard do not be unequally yoked {2 Corinthians 6:14} Jw's are unequally yoked with us, visa versa, if we were to preach the same gospel, we would be equally yoked in Spirit, in one mind working together,.
The word Trinity, can't be found written in the bible, but it's understanding nature is, it's even written in your bible, and if knew the spirit, you would understand Jesus when He said: {John 17:20-21} I am asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me, through their message, that all of them maybe one, As you Father are in Me, and I in You, May they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you sent Me.
Alright I will try and explain this as simple as I can: you are a JW, you believe in the JW's, and other JW's also believe, you preach one Word, you work as one-door to door, in one month-you hand out one watchtower magazine, you are one organisation, you connect to one spirit, you connect to one Jehovah God, you preach the one gospel, your minds are focus on one sermon, you are one in heart, you are one body that is tuned in together, believing together, and teaching together, you are one spirit, in one mind, and one soul, naturally, this won't make sense, but if we think the same, we all preach the same, we are the same, Spirituality...
As you Father are in Me, I am in you.
{John 14:15-17} Jesus said: If you love Me, keep My commandments, and I will pray the Father, and He will give you another helper, that He may abide with you forever-the Spirit of truth, who the world cannot receive, because it neither receives Him or knows Him, but you know Him, for He dwells with you, and will be in you.
This same Spirit teachers us the Word of God, the Spirit of the Lord brings us to know the Father, under the same Spirit, we become one mind, one Spirit, one soul, one body, preaching and teaching the Word of God as One..

lovingJehovah:
As a man of knowledge I expected you to answer the question, but I am surprised that my question only rebounded. Well, as a man of lesser knowledge, I will answer it myself using the Bible.
Yes, I read the scriptures and it contains the meaning of oneness in the sense of purpose and quality. When God said that man and his wife becomes one flesh, it further explains it in Ephesians 5:25; 28-29. 5:25 'Husbands, continue loving your wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and gave himself up for it; 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself, 29 for no man ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cherishes it, just as the Christ does the congregation.

You can see that love is the bond that connects the husband to his wife and also connects the Christ to us, members of the congregation.
The fact that the Bible says that they are one flesh does not mean that they are co-equal. Can a wife be called the husband or coequal because she is joined as one to her husband?, No! Verse 22 of that chapter encourages wives to be subjects to their husbands. Not a duality. I am sure that you will not refute the idea that the husband should likewise be subject to Christ according to the Bible. Nevertheless, If you accept that a wife should be in subjection to her husband and not coequal when the Bible says that they are one flesh, and you accept that the husband should be in subjection to the Christ and not coequal, why would you have a problem following that line of belief in 1 Corinthians 11:3? But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
How can I break this down to your understanding?
If a wife cannot be called husband, and husband cannot be called Christ, why is the formula altered in Christ to God when they all appear in the same sentence?
The point is that trinity is a pagan heresy incorporated into Christianity by Constantine in the council of Nicaea held in 325.
In all your failed attempts to prove Jesus as the ALmighty God, remember that it is only a duality, and the holy spirit has not appeared in the picture yet you are having a very hard time fighting the Bible verses so far.
Bro, let me rephrase this verse in 1 Corinthians 11:3. But ~~the Bible~~ wants you, ~~brocab~~ to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Do you realize the above?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 2:32am On Dec 03, 2017

I love your knowledge, because it isn't there? huh

And who claim to be a believer, "Next question "What do you believe? cool

Who gave the apostles he Spirit of the Lord..
I love this one-written by whom, So, when you lay with a prostitute do you become a duality? If your name were Peter and you slept with a prostitute called Anita, will her name now become Peter? Can we address her as Peter whenever we see her?
This one blew right past you, didn't you understand the scripture?

lovingJehovah:
What point are you really making here? You seem to be contradicting yourself. It seems as if you know Jesus more than the apostles.

How about John 14:28 ... for the Father is greater than I? Do you read what you write at all? One God, One Jesus and One spirit. Hahaha .
So, when you lay with a prostitute do you become a duality? If your name were Peter and you slept with a prostitute called Anita, will her name now become Peter? Can we address her as Peter whenever we see her?
So, since we are united with God, can you change the trinity to tetrality? Are we also God?
Wow! Judge Brocab. You must be a spirit for you to understand the things of the spirit. Who gave you that spirit? How long did it take you to make it happen?

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 2:24am On Dec 03, 2017

If representative means vicar the why does the Pope take on this roll, why do all the priest believe they are God on earth, who can forgive sins?

Jolliano:
Bros, Vicar doesn't mean Christ na.

It means a representative using one's authority.

Christianity Etc › Re: Answers To Jehovah Witnesses Devil-inspired Questions About JESUS CHRIST!!! by brocab: 2:21am On Dec 03, 2017*

If you are a JW then why don't you believe in your bible?
Spirit filled you say? I don't believe you...

JMAN05:
I am a JW. I know the spirit of the lord. We may disagree on something but let's see the evidence we both have. So can we proceed?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Pastors Prefer Malachi To Deuteronomy When Preaching About Tithe? by brocab: 2:17am On Dec 03, 2017*

It's always the case, when its time to learn the scriptures, you may have learnt something, but you haven't learn it all, arguing you call it,
I call it helping a bro in Christ.
No bro I haven't won, the Word of God wins..
And if you are not open to reason, then at least study the scriptures to find reason and let us know the hidden secrets you have found..

samuelezekiel:
It seems you think am arguing with you, but am only trying to make you understand how what I understood from reading the word of God. But it seem you feel you are right and that's all you care about. Since you feel this is an argument well I want to let you know that you've won the argument. Thanks.

Christianity Etc › Re: Answers To Jehovah Witnesses Devil-inspired Questions About JESUS CHRIST!!! by brocab: 4:24pm On Dec 01, 2017

Firstly are you a JW, and do you know the Spirit of the Lord?

JMAN05:
Define your understanding of trinity first.

Hope to have a good discussion with you. Pls can we avoid diatribes? Is that possible for you, so that we can have a nice look at this subject. What do u say?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Pastors Prefer Malachi To Deuteronomy When Preaching About Tithe? by brocab: 4:07pm On Dec 01, 2017*

I know it is hard for you to accept bro, but now you are arguing over Word of God, the truth is starring at you, but if you aren't willing, the truth will be hidden from you.
We have all been down this same road, it was the Lord that directed us out from the wolves, If you choose not to believe "The Old Covenant is the Law of Moses. than what can I do? you may believe you are still under the Laws of Moses-but I assure you, Christians are not obligated to keep “the law of Moses.”When Paul discussed “the law,” he was often concerned with the entire law of Moses, and he wrote that Christians were not under the authority of that law.
But if you are seeing the bible written some other way, then let it be, your choice.
Our obligation to obey God is defined by a different law, a spiritual law, which in some cases overlaps Old Testament laws but in other cases supersedes them.
The New Testament is consistent. First, the matter of covenants. They are discussed in detail in the book of {Hebrews 8} There, the High Priesthood of Jesus Christ is contrasted with the Levitical high priesthood.
The ministry Jesus received is far superior to the Levitical ministry, and his covenant is far superior to the old covenant (verse 6).
But there was a problem with the first covenant—the people were not faithful and were not able to obey it fully. (verses 7-9). God therefore promised a new covenant, and “by calling this covenant `new,’ he has made the first one obsolete” (verse 13) The old covenant is obsolete—ended-finished.
The agreement and its terms of relationship no longer have authority.
The writer of Hebrews says that the old covenant “will soon disappear,” and indeed most of its operations ceased in A.D. 70 when Roman armies destroyed the Temple. "But sadly enough Churches today have rebuilt the temple for financial gain."
Even though elements of the old covenant system continue to be observed in Judaism, the New Testament declares that the old covenant itself is obsolete. "Now, we must ask, just what was the old covenant? What laws are we talking about here? First, the core of the old covenant is the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13).
As part of the old covenant, the people at Mt. Sinai also agreed to obey all the laws in {Exodus 20, 21, 22 and 23} These additional laws became part of the covenant God made with Israel, and the covenant was then ratified with blood (Exodus 24:6- cool

.
This is the covenant that has been declared obsolete. It has no legal authority. Further, we cannot assume that any part of the contract is valid when the entire contract has been declared obsolete. We cannot assume that any particular group of laws must remain together. The old covenant included much more than {Exodus 20-23}
{Hebrews 9:1} tells us that it also included directions for the tabernacle. Instructions for the altar, Levitical priests and animal sacrifices were given in {Exodus 25-31} These were part of God’s original plan for Israel.
He knew very well that the people would sin and would need a tabernacle and regular burnt offerings. It was all part of the plan, part of his relationship with his people, part of his covenant.
You in the other hand sounds you are trying to reinstate the old covenant law, tithing or burnt offerings doesn't belong to us, and It doesn't matter which way you turn, God have brought believers from all walks of life, to witness the truth, we have all been deceived by the tithing lie.
These wolves of prosperity, are men who have caused disputes and arguments, men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness, is their means of financial gain. Jesus said: from such withdraw ourselves. {1 Timothy 6:3-5}
Thanking you for sharing a little history, but tithing is not for us..

samuelezekiel:
First of all, it wasn't Moses' law it's God's law for Moses wasn't the one that came to the conclusion( John 1:17)
The levite are also expected to give( Num 18:29)
The Israelite occupation was Agriculture they are to tithe out of their produce.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29.
They are to tithe year by year
The tithe is to be eaten by them in the place that the LORD in the place where He choose to make His name abide (why) so that they may learn to fear the LORD always.
They can change the exchange the tithe for money if the place the LORD chooses is too long, then they are to go with the money to the place and buy whatever their heart desires, they are to eat it their before the LORD and rejoice they and their household.
The Levite are not to be forsake for the have no inheritance, therefore at the end of every third year they are to bring out the tithe of the produce of that year and store it so that the Levite and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD may bless you in the work of their hands.

God doesn't need or have want for their money, the tithe was for their sake that's why money was been discouraged. And it's to encourage them to rejoice in God's presence. It's when you eat and you're satisfied that's when you can make merry, besides God loves celebrations and merriment.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Pentecostal Church Verses The Catholic Church. by brocab(op): 2:12am On Dec 01, 2017*

The problem is you don't search the net, you just go to the Catholic site, and that's it, what they believe it's true, doesn't have to be written in the bible, or else where in history?
If the Pope told you to jump off the edge, you would do it for the Pope, the Pope believes he is the vicar of Christ, vicar means Christ Himself, and no-one can go into heaven without the vicar "Christ standing at the door of Rome.
So as far as your studying the scriptures go, Uben, nothing else matters..

Ubenedictus:
sorry you are very ignorant, the 1611 version was in English only, I.e KJV was not in all languages.

there were already bibles in different kinds of languages all through the world, these languages were vernacular to many countries and a translation in the ligua franca common to all of Europe. So 99% of all educated people all had bibles in a language they can read.

nobody hid bibles that is a conspiracy theory your Protestant sites told you. apart from bibles in ligua franca of Europe, there were bibles in the vernacular, in German, Slav, etc. but the fact is anyone who could read at all could read Latin. there was hardly any need for the so called 1611 version

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:55pm On Nov 30, 2017*

And I have been answering you for 3 day's but because you can't see the answer in front of you, it doesn't mean its not there.
If you have chosen to believe something that is unscriptual, than you are wasting your time, trying to prove, what isn't there?
Answer: Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of a human father and a son.
God did not get married and have a son.
God did not mate with Mary and, together with her, produce a son.
Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1, 14) Jesus is God's Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit.
{Luke 1:35} declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.
So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”
The Holy Spirit entered Elisabeth as well, but John was never called to be the Son of God, or God's son..
You are reading the scriptures with your eye's closed, you can't see it-nor am I expecting you to understand it, the fact is-you don't know Jesus, nor does He know you, your spirit is not connected.
You have been trying to argue your point across, what is coming out of your mouth isn't making any sense, I have tried to help you see reason, No-one is denying Jesus is God's Son, the Word of God said it, but it also said: I and the Father are One, I am not expecting you to understand this either, but in Spirit they are One. Just as we are, one with Him.. {John 4:24} God is Spirit.
No-one is denying there's One God, One Jesus and One Spirit, we believe Jesus is God that lived among men, Jesus also said: I and the Father are One, "In Spirit they are One Spirit? Just like you, your seed is one with your father and mother-even thou this information had blowing straight over your head, you will never understand this either.
{1 Corinthians 6:16-17} Do you know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body, For it is said: the two will become one flesh. This means if you were to lay, sleep together, having sex, your spirits will connect, and become one flesh.
{Verse 17} And Jesus said: but he who unites with the Lord is one with Him in the Spirit..
I am not expecting you to understand anything concerning the Spirit, but one must be born again, before he/she will enter into the kingdom of God, "You have along way to go-before this happens...

lovingJehovah:
My question is still pending. Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus is referred to as "God the son" as opposed to "son of God"? I have been asking for 3 days now.
You seem to have a personal issue with Jehovah's Witnesses. Who cares? You keep purporting doctrines but never answering any questions.
John 17:3 Jesus himself said that Jehovah is the ONLY TRUE GOD and his father and his God. He is the only one ever referred to as the ALmighty God. John 20:17 Jesus said that Jehovah is his God and our God
1 Corinthians 8:5-6 states that there are many gods in the heaven and on earth, but to us (the first century Christians, Jesus and the Jehovah's Witnesses) there is only ONE GOD. The God, father, creator and head of Jesus, our lord.
1 Timothy 2:5 states that we have one God, Jehovah and one Lord, Jesus.
This is what we believe and it is left to you to believe whatever you choose because we have made our own choice.

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 8:06am On Nov 30, 2017*

{1}firstly my bible usage is the truth, as long as the truth is revealed this is the bible you need.
{2} I am only insisting Jesus is God to you-because your bible and every other bible, tells me so.
{2 Corinthians 13;14} The undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God, and the sharing of the Holy Spirit be with all of you. {John 20:28} Thomas said to Him, My Lord and My God!
Notice in your bible-Lord and God are in the larger letters..
{3} But then you should be asking yourself this question, every verses I have found and written to you, have come out from the NWT?
{Mark 3:24} If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom can not stand..
Does this mean the JW's won't stand, because they are divided against themselves, why don't the JW's agree with the NWT bible, is it because the bible is against the watchtowers rules and regulations? "So if you were to study the scriptures, this would mean it will bring confusion upon you, "would it be dangerous for you to know your bible holds many hidden secrets, that if these hidden agenda's gets out, the watchtower will condemn you for eternity.
A brothers love will surely help save a brother sister and mother, that needs the Lord forevermore..
"Loving J" this is your destiny, is this to much to ask,for you to accept Christ, and allow Him to get to know you, save you, and experience God's love, God has en-stored for you.

lovingJehovah:
TBH I did not read this voluminous histoire de la guerre.
Here are the 3 questions and keep your answers short and precise:

1. What Bible translation do you use or would you recommend?
2. Are you insisting that Jesus is God?
3. Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus is referred to as "God the son" as opposed to "son of God"?

Christianity Etc › Re: Answers To Jehovah Witnesses Devil-inspired Questions About JESUS CHRIST!!! by brocab: 6:54am On Nov 30, 2017

So you are looking for answers, try believing first, and then read the scriptures, we have this trouble every time with JW's, you actually don't believe your bible, you would rather read something that is so unbibical, a watchtower magazine, that's full of cartoons and verses that had been twisted that much, that if someone was on drugs, and wanted to believe it, I could believe, it's possible they do believe.
GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT.
NWT Bible {2 Corinthians 13:14} The undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the Holy spirit be with all of you. "Trinity"
The bible doesn't actually say Trinity, but it shows passages that clearly reveals that the Trinity does exist in the bible, if only you believed?
You do know the Lord Jesus Christ gave us a command in how to baptize believers.
{Matthew 28:19} Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the "NAME" of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: "Trinity"
Did you note that the above verse said, "in the "NAME" (singular) "NOT in the NAMES" of ... (plural)?
The reason the writer of Matthew said "NAME" and not NAMES is because he knew that God was a "TRI-UNITY" and not three separate people or things. Many modern perversions (including the New World Translation) omit the following verse which clearly reveals God as a Trinity. Yet, from the clear statements above it is obvious that the Trinity should be there just as the King James Bible presents it.

{1 John 5:7} For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE. "Trinity"
As a matter of fact, many perverted bibles omit this verse and say that it should not be there. However, according to other verses in the Bible there is NO CONTRADICTION or misuse of scripture by the King James translators.
The modern versions are WRONG including the New World Translation. The TRINITY (TRI-UNITY) is a Bible doctrine and God clearly reveals this in His word.
FATHER - SON - HOLY GHOST
{Luke 3:22} And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. "Trinity"
This is one of your favorites
{John 1:1} In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God "Trinity"
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
{2 Corinthians 13:14}
Have you waited long enough, and do you still agree the bible needs to repent, or maybe you need to repent?

JMAN05:
You are the one that need to repent but just can't see it. Let's give a trial.

Point out the scriptural reason why you believe the trinity, let's see who needs to repent. But first define your understanding of trinity. Let's do it. Waiting...

Christianity Etc › Re: Higher Everyday — Making Wrong Right by brocab: 2:27am On Nov 30, 2017*

QLAADEGBU isn't one person but many, this sounds like I am dealing with {Matthew 12:43-44} once one spirit comes out of a person it go's through dry places seeking rest and does not find it. And later he returns.
How many QLAADEGBU is there, since I have spoken to many legions of spiritual differences.
"You actually believe by honoring your parents, it had led you to tithe? Why would your parents sin against God-your parents didn't lead you to tithe, this is your own choice to follow after the unbiblical tithing system.
And what way do you believe I am not honoring my parents, is it not good enough for you for me to have some sort of remembrance of them?
THOU SHALT HONOR FATHER AND MOTHER!
"Is this scripture to do with the living or is it to do with the dead, or both?
The fifth commandment.
Do you know Paul also explains, “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord” {Eph 6:4}
Parents are given to children for their instruction and protection, particularly to train them in the commandments of God (Deut. 6:7).
It is wise to listen to parents’ good counsel for our own well-being {Prov. 1:8}
Does this mean because I listen to my parents, is it a sin, because my parents, nor did I know the Lord?
"Honour your father and mother" (this is the first commandment with a promise), "that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land." (Ephesians 6:1–2, ESV. See also Colossians 3:20)
Living in Christ we live a long life, not living in Christ-we are already dead.
In his letters to the Romans and Timothy, Paul describes disobedience to parents as a serious sin (Romans 1:29–31, 2 Timothy 3:2).
"In those days they were stoned to death
For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.
The words of Jesus and the teaching of Paul indicate that adult children remain obligated to honour their parents by providing for material needs.
According to the gospel of Matthew, the obligation to honour one's parents is bounded by one's obligation to God: "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37 ESV)
In the gospels, Jesus is portrayed as angry with some people who avoided materially providing for their parents by claiming the money they would have used, was given to God by traditions such as tithes. (Matthew 15:3–8, Mark 7:9–12}
In these passages, Jesus quotes {Isaiah 29:13} According to the Gospel of John, when Jesus was on the cross, he provided for his natural mother by giving the Apostle John the charge to care for her, which John accepted.
Would you do the same for your parents? Did I not do the same, My flesh honored my parents until they died, I cremated them, respected them, and loved them, and later I found I am honoring the living Christ.

OLAADEGBU:
"Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase" (Proverbs 3:9).

I can now see why you are against the giving of tithes, it's because you did not honour your parents even after they died. The 5th commandment is the only one that comes with a promise. Do you know what it is?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Pastors Prefer Malachi To Deuteronomy When Preaching About Tithe? by brocab: 11:04pm On Nov 29, 2017*

I hope this will give you a better understanding what law you have chosen to obey, to be honest a true Christian in the love of Christ is a natural giver-we give until the sun go's down, this is the law of Christ, the law of Moses is this, we give God 10%.
If I was to walk into a Church and after the tithes were handed over to the Pastor, and after the sermon, the Pastor said: now all those in need, stand up and be given 10% on top of the 10% you have given to the Church. Could this be called God's Church.
{John 1:17} For the law was giving through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

The Mosaic Law of Tithing.
Read and Listen Moses finally came to the conclusion that a tithing system was necessary for the nation of Israel. This occurred at the beginning of the second year of the Exodus. He told the Israelites that they should henceforth give a tenth part of their seed crops and fruit trees plus every tenth animal to the treasury in the newly erected Tabernacle (Leviticus 27:30-33) One should notice three points about this initial law that are commonly overlooked today.
At first, Moses discouraged Israelites from giving tithe in money though Moses reluctantly allowed it.
For example, if anyone insisted on retaining any increase of the crops for personal use, Moses demanded an extra fifth part premium
(Leviticus 27:31)
Moses did not mind them paying in money for crops, but they had to give the extra premium for the privilege.
It is strange, but Christian ministers today would rather have the money than the foodstuffs that Moses ordained. Preachers in demanding the tithe are magnanimous and they usually don’t ask for the one-fifth premium for the privilege of paying in money rather than in kind.
Secondly, since the tithe was only required on agricultural crops and herds, little produce would have been given to the treasury while Israel was in the desert of Sinai. Israel had little agricultural crops produced in that desolate wilderness to tithe
(Deuteronomy 29:5–6)

Thirdly, Moses did not say in the Book of Leviticus how the tithe was to be spent or to whom it was to be given.
He simply said that Israelites were required to pay the tithe. Obviously, the monies were placed in the Tabernacle (the Temple) treasury and this limited amount of produce was placed in storage bins.
Let us now examine the tithing system. "What Products Were Tithed?
Many people have been hasty in assuming that all the income earned by Israelites was subject to the laws of tithing. This was not the case. Any Jewish rabbi can inform a person what items were to be tithed because the Bible makes the matter plain. This point should be noted very carefully.
There were only two types of income that were tithable: One was from agricultural production. "All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s" (Leviticus 27:30)
This meant that a tenth of all agricultural produce of the land of Israel, whether fruits or vegetables, had to be tithed.

The second type of tithable income was the increase of animals. "All the tithe of the herd or flock, whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord" (verse 32) Only these two specific income producers were subject to the tithe.
There is only one exception to this rule. {Leviticus 27:31} reads: "If a man will redeem ought of his tithe, he shall add unto it the fifth part thereof." In other words, if a man for various reasons did not wish to pay his tithe in kind (and he wished to give money as a substitute), he was penalized a fifth part.
Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money. Monetary redemption, on the other hand, was not allowed for the tithe of animals. Moses declared: "It shall not be redeemed" (verse 33)
This means that the tithing law of the Bible prohibited cattle ranchers from paying money at all.
They were required to give the tenth animal no matter if they wanted to keep it for some reason to themselves.

Who Did Not Tithe?
Since farmers and ranchers were responsible for paying the tithe, we now come to an equally important question: Who was not required to tithe?
It is often surprising to people to find that a large segment of people in Israel did not tithe!
The owner of a farm had to tithe, but his hired hands were exempt. Was a hired hand required to tithe on his salary? Not at all!
There was no law that required a tenth of one’s salary to be tithed (which was earned for services rendered).
Only the crops and animals of those who owned them were subject to the tithe.
After all, the crops and the animals did not belong to the hired hand and only the increase from one’s land or animals was subject to the tithe.

And note this. Fishermen did not tithe, though this industry is mentioned in the law (Leviticus 11:9–12)
Likewise, the mining industry is referred to (Deuteronomy 8:9) but the tithe of minerals extracted from the earth was never called for.
The lumber business is mentioned (1 Kings 5:7–12) and construction work on buildings (1 Kings 5:13–18) but tithes were not extracted from people who worked in those trades. {Not like how they claim the tithe today}
The same held true for those earning an income from weaving, handicrafts, or from any form of manufacturing or merchandising. They all were immune from tithing including all those in the military and government workers.
And though the Levites were commanded to pay a tenth of the tithe they received from the farmers and ranchers to the Priests, those Priests themselves were totally exempt from paying any tithe.

To make it plain and simple, only the owners of farms and flocks were required to tithe. Indeed, the Israelite who had fewer than ten cattle did not have to tithe on nine of them because the requirement stated that only the tenth animal that passed under the rod was to be tithed (Leviticus 27:32) Looking at this matter of the tenth animal being tithed from our present monetary point of view, a rancher could have many thousands of dollars invested in nine cattle, but unless he had a tenth he was not required to tithe a penny of his assets.

{Some Christian ministers commonly teach that the tithe is God’s and that he must get his money first. But the Bible says it is the tenth animal (the last one) that passes under the rod that is God’s, not the first.}

These clear biblical teachings present some real dilemmas for Christian ministers today who want to use the tithe for their church activities. If a minister wanted his members of his church to abide by the tithing laws, why doesn’t he teach them to perform them the way the Bible instructs?
If church members who live in a city wanted to tithe according to biblical law, they would be paying a tenth of their garden produce (if they had gardens) or a tenth of their chickens (if they had chickens) Even if they earned $2,000 a month in other income, that’s all they would be required to tithe. This would hardly be enough to support normal church activities today. Yet this is the precise law of tithing which was ordained for Israel by God.

samuelezekiel:
I know that the epistle that Paul wrote can be very confusing at time, you think this is what Paul is Saying but when you get to the end you start to ask yourself again what is he trying to say and you get confused. But please I want you to read these passages carefully to the end. In summary there are two types of law)( permit me to say that), the law of sin and death, the law of God (Spirit of life)
Romans 9:13-23 '... For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace... For the wages of sin is death,.... "
Romans 7:1-25" Or do you know, brethren(for I speak to those under the law) the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?... What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!... Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment, holy and just and good... For we Know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. "
Romans 8:1-10"... For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death... That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit... "

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do Pastors Prefer Malachi To Deuteronomy When Preaching About Tithe? by brocab: 12:05am On Nov 29, 2017

Question: "What is the curse of the law?"
Answer: As opposed to the blessing, which is grace, the Law is a curse upon all mankind, none of whom can possibly fulfill its requirements. While the Law itself is perfect and holy, those who try to justify themselves before its holy Author bring not His blessing, but His curse upon themselves.
The Bible itself tells us what the curse of the Law is: “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘the righteous will live by faith.’
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree’” (Galatians 3:10–13).
What we must understand from this passage is that the curse is not the Law.
The curse is the penalty levied for not keeping the Law. The “Book of the Law” refers to the covenant laws that God made with His people during the time of Moses. The Law can point out where we fail and fall short of God’s will, but it cannot pronounce us righteous; that was not its purpose.
In Galatians 3 the apostle Paul is telling us that everyone who does not keep the Law perfectly is cursed by it (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10).
The reason is that no one can obey the Law perfectly. In fact, there were over 600 laws the Jews had to keep to be right in the eyes of God.
The breaking of even one commandment put a person under condemnation.
Trying to achieve salvation through obedience to the Law is futile. For example, we all regularly break the first and greatest commandment by failing to love God first with all our hearts, minds and strength (Matthew 22:37–38)
As a result, everyone has broken the commandments, and everyone is cursed.
The Law demands perfection—an impossibility because we’re all sinful (Romans 3:10, 23)
As a result, all who try to live by the Old Law were under a divine curse.
But the good news is that Jesus Christ “redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13)
Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice on the cross when He bore God’s curse. Paul explains how in his letter to the Romans: “God presented [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood.
He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:25–26)
The curse of the Law fell on Christ on our behalf so that the righteousness of God could fall on us, though we did not deserve it
(2 Corinthians 5:21)
Not even the Jews are under Moses law-nor should you be tither..

samuelezekiel:
Who says no Christian is under the law of moses, Remember Jesus said I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The law of moses still stand.

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:48pm On Nov 28, 2017

It is not my personal point-These points were written way before I came into existence..
These points are written in your bible, you do agree Jehovah is our savior, then believe your bible, Jehovah is Jesus in the flesh.
{Isaiah 9:6} “For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us, and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”

lovingJehovah:
What really is your point, that Jesus is God, yeah?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:42pm On Nov 28, 2017

You quoted two verses {John 17:3. 20:17} Just to argue against the rest of these verses that is also written in the NWT bible, and are choosing to fight against them.
I will rewrite them again, for you, these are written in the NWT bible, are you trying to tell me just adding two verses to the list, your bible is actually contradicting itself?
(All verses are quoted directly from the Jehovah’s Witnesses New World Translation.) God's Glory.
(Verses regarding God the Father)
{Isaiah 42:8}“I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.”
{Isaiah 48:11} “…And to no one else, shall I give my own glory.” "Not even Jesus?
(Verses regarding Jesus)
{John 8:54}“…It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is YOUR God”
{John 16:14} “That one will glorify me…”
{John 17:1} “…Father, the hour has come; glorify your son…”
{John 17:5} “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.”
{Philippians 2:10} “so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground”
{Hebrews 5:5} “So too the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but [was glorified by him] who spoke with reference to him; ‘You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.”
The Savior
(About the Father)
{Isaiah 43:3} “For I am Jehovah your God, the Holy One of Israel your Savior.”
{Isaiah 43:11} “I am Jehovah and besides me there is no savior.”
{Isaiah 45:21} “Is it not I, Jehovah besides whom there is no other God; a righteous God and a Savior, there being none excepting me?”
(About Jesus)
{Luke 2:11} “because there was born to you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord…”
{Acts 13:23} “From the offspring of this [man] according to his promise God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus.”
{Titus 1:4} “…May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.”
{Whose name are we to have faith in? (said about Jesus or by Jesus)
{John 14:12} “Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do…”
{Acts 4:12} “Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
{Acts 26:18} “…and inheritance among those sanctified by [their] faith in me.”
{Revelation 2:13} “I know where you are dwelling, that is where the throne of Satan is, and yet you keep on holding fast my name, and you did not deny your faith in me…”
{John 20:28} “In answer Thomas said to him: My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him: Because you have seen me have you believed?
{John 20:31} “ But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing YOU may have life by means of his name.”
{Acts 2:38}“Peter [said] to them: ‘Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ...”
{1 John 3:23} “Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ…”
Created or Creator?

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jehovah created Jesus as an angel, and that Jesus then created all other things. What do the scriptures say?(About the Father)
{Isaiah 66:2} “Now all these things my own hand has made, so that all these came to be.”
{Isaiah 44:24}“…I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens, by myself…”
(About Jesus)
{John 1:3} “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.” If all things came into existence through Jesus, He could not have been created because He is included in the “all things.”
Status, Names and Titles of Jesus and Jehovah
{Isaiah 9:6} “For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us, and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
{Revelation 1:8} “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”
{Revelation 1:17-18} “…I am the First and the Last, and the living one, and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys to death and of Hades.”
{Revelation 2:8} “…These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last, who became dead, and came to life [again]”{Revelation 22:12-16} “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.”
{Revelation 21:6-7}“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.”
If Jehovah is the Alpha and Omega (the first and last Greek letters), then the “first and the last” must refer to Jehovah, so the Witnesses claim. But when did Jehovah become dead? The only “first and last” who died and lived again is Jesus.
{Hebrews 1:13} “But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said ‘Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?

lovingJehovah:
You seem to have lost Bible. We are only conversing. You raised some issues and I asked you a question, why run to YouTube? I have seen all those videos years ago. Use your Bible to buttress your points not YouTube. No one is arguing on the verses in the Bible. Can you read the verses that I quoted in your on Bible?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:26pm On Nov 28, 2017

As I said: your argument is with the watchtower, you quoted two verses, but you refuse to believe those others scriptures that's is written from your own bible that proves Jesus is God and walked among men?
How can I support you, When you are not making any sense-you are denying the NWT bible..

lovingJehovah:
You seem to have lost Bible. We are only conversing. You raised some issues and I asked you a question, why run to YouTube? I have seen all those videos years ago. Use your Bible to buttress your points not YouTube. No one is arguing on the verses in the Bible. Can you read the verses that I quoted in your on Bible?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:00pm On Nov 28, 2017

I repeat it again-(All verses are quoted directly from the Jehovah’s Witnesses New World Translation bible.)
I repeat "These verses came directly out of the NWT Bible, "if you still insist not to believe in your own bible, then argue your point of view out with the watchtower?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7U4i8LnOow

lovingJehovah:
Very good! What Bible translation do you use or would you recommend?

In conclusion, having said all about the JW, what really is your point? That Jesus is God, yeah?

Just imagine the contradiction above. You read it, yet you contradicted. Do you doubt the Bible that you read? Why did you read John 1:3 if you do not believe it?
I emboldened the key word for you to ponder over. All things came through Jesus. If you are still doubting the Bible, check Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus is referred to as "God the son" as opposed to "son of God"?

Jehovah is the only one referred to as Alpha and Omega and the one seated on the throne. I am still asking if you actually read the stuff that you post online before posting them?

Can you tell Jesus that he is lying in John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
The above was Jesus words. Could he be lying? Could he probably be lying when he corroborated that in John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
Are you trying to teach Jesus the scriptures or help him explain the word that he came to proclaim?
Are you going to compel him to be your God?
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 8:07am On Nov 28, 2017*

Well I have got your attention-and allow me to say, if there's anybody out there who are confused about becoming a Jehovah witness, please read and learn more about the NWT Bible, and ask yourselves this Question: "I am a Jehovah's Witness. Why should I consider becoming a Christain?"
Answer: Perhaps the most important commonality between Evangelical Christians and Jehovah’s Witnesses is our belief and trust in the Bible as the ultimate authority inspired by God, on issues concerning God and His expectations for us. While we may understand things differently, Jehovah’s Witnesses are to be highly commended for their dependence on and diligence in studying the Holy Scriptures to know God and His will. Like the Bereans, we would be wise to examine all things in life, in light of the Scriptures.
To that end, we shall examine verses of the New World Translation (the version of the Bible published by their Watchtower Society) to clear up some common misunderstandings.
A Rose by Any Other Name…
Christians get their name from being followers and worshipers of Jesus Christ, first called “Christians” in Antioch during Paul’s ministry
{Acts 11:26} Paul repeatedly made it clear that to be a Christian was to be a witness to men concerning the person of Christ, to be a witness to the words and works of Christ.
Jehovah’s Witnesses, on the other hand, believe that we are to focus our worship exclusively on God the Father (who is referred to in some Bible translations as “Jehovah”). The name Jehovah, however, was a hybrid name created by Christians by adding vowels to the tetragrammaton YHWH, which was the original rendering of we now know as Yahweh.
Evangelical Christians understand Jesus to be God in all His fullness, equal in deity but different in function from God the Father. Christians acknowledge that one of the historic names for God the Father is Jehovah; however, there are many other names and titles that the Scriptures use in reference to God the Father.
Jehovah’s Witnesses understand Jesus to be Michael the Archangel, {So of course they preach another Jesus} and categorically deny His deity. As we shall see, if we understand Jesus to be anything other than God, many verses present obvious contradictions. However, we know that God’s Word is inerrant and does not contradict itself.
Therefore, we must understand the truth of God’s Word in a way that is consistent and faithful to His revelation.
You will notice that these same verses lack any contradiction if we understand Jesus to be God the Son—the fullness of God in bodily form—who surrendered His rights to be the suffering servant and sacrifice for our sin.
(All verses are quoted directly from the Jehovah’s Witnesses New World Translation.) God's Glory.
(Verses regarding God the Father)
{Isaiah 42:8}“I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.”
{Isaiah 48:11} “…And to no one else, shall I give my own glory.” "Not even Jesus?
(Verses regarding Jesus)
{John 8:54}“…It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is YOUR God”
{John 16:14} “That one will glorify me…”
{John 17:1} “…Father, the hour has come; glorify your son…”
{John 17:5} “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.”
{Philippians 2:10} “so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground”
{Hebrews 5:5} “So too the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but [was glorified by him] who spoke with reference to him; ‘You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.”
The Savior
(About the Father)
{Isaiah 43:3} “For I am Jehovah your God, the Holy One of Israel your Savior.”
{Isaiah 43:11} “I am Jehovah and besides me there is no savior.”
{Isaiah 45:21} “Is it not I, Jehovah besides whom there is no other God; a righteous God and a Savior, there being none excepting me?”
(About Jesus)
{Luke 2:11} “because there was born to you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord…”
{Acts 13:23} “From the offspring of this [man] according to his promise God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus.”
{Titus 1:4} “…May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.”
{Whose name are we to have faith in? (said about Jesus or by Jesus)
{John 14:12} “Most truly I say to YOU, He that exercises faith in me, that one also will do the works that I do…”
{Acts 4:12} “Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
{Acts 26:18} “…and inheritance among those sanctified by [their] faith in me.”
{Revelation 2:13} “I know where you are dwelling, that is where the throne of Satan is, and yet you keep on holding fast my name, and you did not deny your faith in me…”
{John 20:28} “In answer Thomas said to him: My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him: Because you have seen me have you believed?
{John 20:31} “ But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing YOU may have life by means of his name.”
{Acts 2:38}“Peter [said] to them: ‘Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ...”
{1 John 3:23} “Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ…”
Created or Creator?

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jehovah created Jesus as an angel, and that Jesus then created all other things. What do the scriptures say?(About the Father)
{Isaiah 66:2} “Now all these things my own hand has made, so that all these came to be.”
{Isaiah 44:24}“…I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens, by myself…”
(About Jesus)
{John 1:3} “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.” If all things came into existence through Jesus, He could not have been created because He is included in the “all things.”
Status, Names and Titles of Jesus and Jehovah
{Isaiah 9:6} “For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us, and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
{Revelation 1:8} “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”
{Revelation 1:17-18} “…I am the First and the Last, and the living one, and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys to death and of Hades.”
{Revelation 2:8} “…These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last, who became dead, and came to life [again]”{Revelation 22:12-16} “Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star.”
{Revelation 21:6-7}“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the fountain of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.”
If Jehovah is the Alpha and Omega (the first and last Greek letters), then the “first and the last” must refer to Jehovah, so the Witnesses claim. But when did Jehovah become dead? The only “first and last” who died and lived again is Jesus.
{Hebrews 1:13} “But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said ‘Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?
Truth and Unity
Jesus’ substitutionary atonement was accepted for one reason: God accepts only His own righteousness. The righteousness of a man or an angel is insufficient to hold up to the holy and perfect standard of God’s righteous law. Jesus was the only suitable sacrifice because He was the righteousness of God, and as God’s law required shed blood, Jesus took on flesh so that He might be a ransom for all who believe in His name.
Notice that if we understand Jesus to be God incarnate, then all the above verses can be understood to be true and mutually consistent in their claims. They can also be understood clearly with plain reason, taken at face value. However, if we attempt to suggest that Jesus is something less than God—Michael the archangel—then these verses are mutually exclusive and cannot both be true, when taken in their natural context.
Therefore, the truth of God’s Word necessitates that we must come to another understanding in which all Scripture is unified, interconnected, interdependent, inerrant and true. That unifying truth can be found only in the person and deity of Jesus Christ. May we see the truth revealed in Scripture as it is, not as we would each have it to be, and may God receive all the glory.

lovingJehovah:
What race are you talking about?
Are you saying that you love God and your neigbours as yourself? Can you refer to yourself as a cultist as you call the Jehovah's witnesses? Regarding Luke 6:31, would you accept the same insults that you dish out to the JW?
It is difficult to read and understand your write-up and JW are trained to elucidate with poise. Out of love, we go from door to door teaching sincere-hearted ones. Only love could motivate millions to close their businesses, retire from active work or choose a low-paying career for the sake of spending more time discussing the Bible with people. It is our job to tell about Jehovah and his kingdom because Jesus gave us that command in Matthew 24:14.
Are you doing that? Take away the internet, have you ever visited a stranger to preach to him? Jehovah's witnesses go as far as the jungle in the amazon to teach the word of God. What sacrifice have you really done to prove your love apart from judging the JW on Nairaland?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 5:25am On Nov 28, 2017*

Finely the dead had risen? Are you confused, you haven't a clue about this forum, and why we are here-this forum is about learning-it isn't about abuse-love your neighbour, try to open up your heart, and seek the Kingdom of God.
And besides if I have said something against you, I repent-forgive me, but if I haven't, then let your troubles return to you..
And besides if you are looking for favour from other Christians on this forum-then change from the cult you have chosen to believe in, and become a Christian..

lovingJehovah:
You must make a sense and present your point accordingly for someone to agree with you. So far, you have not presented anything worthy of understanding. How can I agree with a heretic purport that has no actual link to the message in the Bible?

You should be able to make a lucid statement and not contradicting yourself. This is a public forum and you can be called out to answer what you put out here. You are just quoting the whole scriptures; some are not related to the point that you try to make and you are not making an effort to explain your points. You are equivocating and that is the point. I have to cut out some extras below to be able to follow up.

Ludicrous! Bro, you are a receptacle of insinuation. Are you sure that you read before posting stuff online? How could you say that the election of Matthias is not ordained by God? So, if they had elected Paul, it would have been ordained by God, yeah? Shallow but insidious thought. Your thought is toxic. No Christian should pay heed to such thought. We were warned against your type in Colossians 2:8 Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

What offshoot of Christianity do you represent? I do not think other Christians on Nairaland will agree with you. You are indeed a dangerous weed that Jesus referred to in his illustration.
No one should take you seriously. You keep entangling your own self with piles of heresy. In your earliest comment above you said I shouldn't stand high and mighty but descend to this gruesome stench of dog mess? Bro, grab a Bible and get someone to help you understand it. Pray for God's holy spirit to guide you.

Do you have a beef with Matthias? Seriously, can you read what you typed above? Are you a Christian? You called the Jehovah's witnesses false, but judge your standing above by yourself. Bro, honestly I am surprised at you. Your knowledge of the Bible is a missile of 'new-clear' paganism. Get some help!

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 11:56pm On Nov 27, 2017

Have you JW's ever wondered why none of you ever try and finished a race, your doctrine is fiction, if your scholars really knew the scriptures, if they knew the Spirit, the Lord's commandments, love your God with all your heart soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourselves. will be planted in your hearts that strong, no-cult could break up marriages nor families but bring God's people in lineament with the Word of God.
But that won't happen..

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 1:37am On Nov 27, 2017

You haven't the slightest idea, where this is leading too, the JW's never fully agreed on anything, you can believe as much as you like, if you feel my pages don't support your needs, then turn away from my page, all at least study up the scriptures, instead of standing high and mighty, just looking at one verse and being picky on the others doesn't stop there, "how can one ever finish the race if you can't see the bible in front of you, the flesh is blind, but the Spirit gives light.
You only see this, the disciples cast lots for Matthias, but you can't see this, the Spirit made the final decision.
The Apostle Paul: Paul constitutes a unique case. As far as we know, he never laid eyes on Jesus until his epiphany on the road to Damascus and was, in any case, an unbeliever until that moment. However, it is clear from his description of this event that he did, in fact, see Jesus with his own eyes: And having fallen to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?" And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" Then He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting". {Acts 9:4-5, Acts 22:6-11; 26:14-18}
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? {1 Corinthians 9:1}
And last of all, as if to one who had been aborted rather than properly born, [Jesus] appeared also to me.
{1 Corinthians 15:8}
Further, scripture is in any case very clear about the fact that Paul was an apostle in the same sense as Peter and the others, having been appointed such by our Lord Himself {Gal.3:1; 2:8 Rom.1:5, 1 Cor.1:17}
Then the Lord said to him, "Go. For he is My vessel, chosen to carry My Name before nations, and kings, and the sons of Israel."
{Acts 9:15}
Question: You talk about the "12" apostles/disciples - there were actually, 13, even discounting Judas Iscariot; Paul would make twelve, and Matthias, {Acts 1} being the thirteenth.
Response: On the issue of the "13" disciples, it is true that Peter and company "elected" Matthias to replace Judas, but not everything recorded in the Bible that individuals do is to be taken as ordained of God (obviously-consider King Saul et al.).
Peter made his share of mistakes ("don't wash my feet", "wash my whole body", etc. etc.).
Every place in scripture where God makes clear His own feelings about the apostles, there are 12 {as in the 12 gates of Revelation 21:14} Whose names are on the gates?
If we are to imagine that one of them will have the name "Matthias", then who will be left out (certainly not Paul, the last but also the greatest of the apostles)?
Remember that the election of Matthias was held before Pentecost, after which Peter (and his fellows) are suddenly much more effective for God (as one would expect with the coming of the Holy Spirit).
Notice too that to "elect" Matthias, they turn to the Old Testament device of casting lots, something Jesus never did and something that is never authorized in the New Testament (or practiced elsewhere ever again).
Notice that God did not communicate to Peter the need to get a new number 12 (although Peter did receive direct revelation when it was time to bring the gospel to the gentiles) and notice that when God decided to choose number 12, our Lord Jesus Christ Himself appeared to Paul in a very miraculous way that left no doubt as to God's call, God's "election" of Paul as number 12.
Through Him [Jesus Christ] we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name.
NKJV {Romans 1:5}
Matthias was no doubt a fine believer, but he was no apostle - except in the eyes of men (and erroneously so)
Perhaps it would be more helpful to say about the apostles that "God never had more than 12". Finally, in the Greek text of {Acts 1:26}
This is also evident from the very next chapter at {Acts 2:14} where, in spite of Matthias' "election", Luke mentions "the eleven" instead "the twelve"–not until the calling of Paul, the genuine twelfth apostle, was the full complement again reached.

lovingJehovah:
I still say Paul was a good candidate, but it wasn't my choice
Bro, are you intending to re-elect the apostles of the first century??
But where did Matthias go, he and the other apostles, no-one talks about them, but Paul in the other hand stood out like there is no tomorrow
The above comment is not a fruit of a true Christian. God selected Matthias and you are categorizing them? This thought of your is what brought dissension in Luke 9:46, do you know?
Was Matthias or Paul God's choice to replace Judas as the 12th apostle?
Good question! But you gave an utterly wrong answer, though that can be better.
When was Paul called to be an apostle and when was Matthias appointed as an apostle? Do you know the difference between those two dates? Sometime during the ten days between Jesus’ ascension and the day of Pentecost it was viewed as necessary that another be selected to fill the vacancy left by Judas and that was in 33 CE. Paul was never called to replace Judas. He was converted probably about the year 34 C.E after the death of Jesus. He never walked with Jesus and never knew him to fill in the requirement of a replacement. According to him, he was called to a special assignment. As we had discussed earlier, Jesus gave the 12 a directive to go only to the lost sheep of Israel, yeah? But, Paul clearly states that he was given apostleship for people of the nations (Romans 11:13).
Yes, Paul was definitely more prominent than Matthias, but Paul was more prominent than any of the 12 apostles, except for perhaps Peter and John.
I am shocked. Prominent in what sense? What really are you driving at? Does prominence mean righteousness to you?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 6:45pm On Nov 26, 2017

It will be even better if you used your own page, instead of using mine..you do realise this forum travels, and we are all learning the scriptures, no-one knows for sure, who was the last apostle, you wanting to be direct isn't working, the scriptures tells the story, casting lots, or maybe spinning the bottle, worked in the eye's of man, but the disciples prayed and asked the Lord for the final decision, I still say Paul was a good candidate, but it wasn't my choice, it belonged to God to decide.. But where did Matthias go, he and the other apostles, no-one talks about them, but Paul in the other hand stood out like there is no tomorrow..
Question: "Was Matthias or Paul God's choice to replace Judas as the 12th apostle?"
Answer: With Judas having betrayed Christ and then committing suicide, the 11 remaining disciples decided to replace Judas with a new 12th apostle {Acts 1:16-20} The requirements were that the man had to have been with them the entire time of Jesus’ ministry, and to have been a witness of the resurrection and ascension {Acts 1:21-22} The 11 disciples proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (possibly the same person as Barnabas), and Matthias {Acts 1:23} The 11 disciples then prayed for the Lord’s direction {Acts 1:24-25} and then cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias {Acts 1:26}
But, was this the Lord’s choice? Some propose that Paul, not Matthias, was God’s choice for the 12th apostle.
They argue that Jesus had told the apostles to wait for the coming of the Holy Spirit {Acts 1:8}and that casting lots is not how the disciples should have made the decision.
They also point out that Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, while Paul obviously became very prominent in the early Christian church. So, are they correct that Paul, not Matthias, was God’s choice to be Judas’ replacement as the 12th apostle?
The New Testament nowhere condones or condemns the way the apostles made the decision in {Acts 1} Casting lots was a bionically allowed method of making a decision {Proverbs 16:33} And, while Matthias is never again mentioned in the New Testament, the same can be said for most of the other 11 apostles.
Church history records that Matthias died as a martyr for Christ, as did all of the other apostles, except John.
Yes, Paul was definitely more prominent than Matthias, but Paul was more prominent than any of the 12 apostles, except for perhaps Peter and John. Also, Paul would not have been qualified based on the apostles’ criteria {Acts 1:21-22} So, a conclusive biblical case cannot be made for the 11 apostles’ choice of Matthias being invalid.
Further, God is sovereign. If it was not His sovereign will for Matthias to be chosen, Matthias would not have been chosen. It could be argued that, while it was God’s sovereign will (what He ordained) for Matthias to be chosen, it was God’s perfect will (what He desired) for the apostles to wait for Paul. But, this would be pure speculation, as, again, the Bible nowhere condemns Matthias being chosen for the 12th apostle.
{1 Corinthians 15:9} for I am least of the apostles, and do not even be deserved to be called an a apostle, because I persecuted the Church, but by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not without affect, No I worked harder then all of them, yet not I-but the grace of God that was with me.
You say Matthias, I suppose without bible evidence, who's to know?
[quote author=lovingJehovah post=62735957][/quote]

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 5:16pm On Nov 26, 2017

Question: "Who were the 70 (or 72) disciples in Luke 10?"
Answer: {Luke 10} is the only place where we find the account of Jesus sending a specific 70 (or 72) disciples to prepare the way before Him.
The discrepancies in the number (70 or 72) come from differences found in approximately half of the ancient scrolls used in translation.
The texts are nearly evenly divided between the numbers, and scholars do not agree on whether the number should be 70 or 72, although such a minor issue is no cause for debate.
Since the number 70 is repeated other places in Scripture {Exodus 24:1; Numbers 11:16; Jeremiah 29:10} it may be more likely that the actual number of disciples was 70, with the 2 being a copyist’s error. Whether there were 70 or 72 disciples sent out by Jesus is irrelevant.
What is important are the instructions Jesus gave them and the power that came upon them to perform miracles and cast out demons {Luke 10:17}
After appointing the 70 (or 72) disciples, Jesus spoke of the great need for evangelism
{Luke 10:1–2} He then commissioned the 70, giving them these instructions:
{1} Go {Luke 10:3} This is foundational. The 70 were to divide into pairs and visit all the places where Jesus was about to go.
{2} Be wary {Luke 10:3}The 70 were like lambs among wolves, surrounded by danger.
{3} Live by faith {Luke 10:4} The 70 were to carry no extra provisions.
They carried the message of Jesus and didn’t need to be burdened down with material things.
{4} Be focused {Luke 10:4} The 70 were to greet no one along the road and not allow themselves to be sidetracked from the more important mission of evangelism.
{5} Extend your blessing {Luke 10:5–6} Whoever housed the 70 were to be blessed, using the common greeting of the day, “Peace to this house.”
{6} Be content {Luke 10:7} The 70 were told not to seek better accommodations; they were to stay in the home that first received them.
{7} Receive your due {Luke 10:7} The laborer is worthy of his wages {1 Timothy 5:17–18} Doing evangelistic work is indeed work and is worthy of compensation.
{8} Be flexible {Luke 10:7–8} The 70 were to eat whatever their hosts served; as God’s servants, they were not to be finicky.
{9} Heal the sick {Luke 10:9} Jesus gave the 70 disciples specific authority to heal diseases and illness. It was as if the Great Physician had 70 interns making house calls. When the 70 returned to Jesus, they jubilantly recounted how they were able not only to heal diseases but to cast out demons as well {verse 17}
{10} Proclaim the kingdom {Luke 10:9} The message of the 70 disciples was simple: “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” This was a clear-cut call to faith in the King who would soon visit each village.
Jesus then told the 70 (or 72) disciples that they might expect rejection in some villages {Luke 10:10} and He told them how to respond: publicly wipe the dust of that town from their feet {Luke 10:11; cf. 9:5} proclaim the kingdom one more time, and warn them of coming judgment {Luke 10:12}
A similar commissioning had occurred with Jesus’ twelve apostles as the Lord sent them out to cure diseases and cast out demons
{Matthew 10:1–42; Luke 9:1–6} The main difference is that Jesus had told the Twelve that they were to preach in Galilee, avoiding Gentile areas and Samaria, but the 70 (or 72) were given no such restriction.
The identities of the 70 disciples are never given in Scripture, and the group is never mentioned again, even during the time of the early church in Acts. It seems their ministry was specific to preparing Jesus’ path to Jerusalem.
Various individuals have been suggested as possibly being part of the 70—the unnamed exorcist in {Luke 9:49} for example.
Two of them may have been Barsabbas (known as Justus) and Matthias {Acts 1:23} since they were chosen by the apostles as possible replacements for Judas {Acts 1:15–18} One of the requirements for apostleship was that the candidate had to “have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection” {Acts 1:21–22} We can also speculate that the 70 were part of the 120 gathered in the upper room on Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was first poured out {Acts 1:15}
Since God did not consider it important for us to know the names of the 70 (or 72) disciples He charged with the important task of preparing the way for Jesus, we don’t need to consider it important, either. What Jesus called attention to was not the power He gave them but the fact that their names were written in heaven {Luke 10:20} Similarly, while we may get excited about visible miracles and demonstrations of supernatural power, the greatest miracle of all is the fact that unworthy sinners can become righteous children of God
{Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21; John 1:12} When our focus moves to ourselves and how God is using us, we are headed the wrong direction. It is a good reminder that, since their names are unimportant, ours are, too. It is the name of Jesus Christ alone who deserves all attention and glory
{1 Corinthians 1:28–29, Philippians 2:9–11} It is enough that our names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Well if you are interested in sharing your views about this subject, I am open for a good digestion...

lovingJehovah:
There is no need to get contentional, bro. You may read my comment again. It has no iota of judgment to warrant your this sort of introduction. In any case, I have read your comment and I have some doubts.
understanding what the 70 were about, they prepared the way for Jesus
Your comment above is questionable. Can you provide biblical references to back it up?
was he one of the 70?
Evidently, he wasn't
And were the 70 part of the 120 disciples in Acts, they all received the Holy Spirit.
We cannot say for sure the names of the entire 120. Do you know some detail that we don't?
The training of Jesus' disciples has now reached a crucial juncture
When did it reach this crucial juncture? Can you provide biblical evidence to back this up?
But what about the crowds? When does he send them out? He doesn't. [/color]
They've come for a spiritual meal, while the disciples, the "learners," have come to learn a way of life, not everybody can preach the ways of Christ.
The above is shocking. Bro, how did you arrive at this? Can you support this statement with a biblical reference? In your words, there are three sets of people around Jesus, the apostles (the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority), the crowd (who come for a spiritual meal) and the disciples (the "learners," who come to learn a way of life), yes?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 4:33pm On Nov 26, 2017

lovingJehovah:
There is no need to get contentional, bro. You may read my comment again. It has no iota of judgment to warrant your this sort of introduction. In any case, I have read your comment and I have some doubts.
understanding what the 70 were about, they prepared the way for Jesus
Your comment above is questionable. Can you provide biblical references to back it up?
was he one of the 70?
Evidently, he wasn't
And were the 70 part of the 120 disciples in Acts, they all received the Holy Spirit.
We cannot say for sure the names of the entire 120. Do you know some detail that we don't?
The training of Jesus' disciples has now reached a crucial juncture
When did it reach this crucial juncture? Can you provide biblical evidence to back this up?
But what about the crowds? When does he send them out? He doesn't. [/color]
They've come for a spiritual meal, while the disciples, the "learners," have come to learn a way of life, not everybody can preach the ways of Christ.
The above is shocking. Bro, how did you arrive at this? Can you support this statement with a biblical reference? In your words, there are three sets of people around Jesus, the apostles (the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority), the crowd (who come for a spiritual meal) and the disciples (the "learners," who come to learn a way of life), yes?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 4:23pm On Nov 26, 2017

Maybe if you had explained your tactic's when reaching out, maybe it wouldn't sound like this?
So, "are you" {Who is are you} going to tell me now that they were misguided or disobedient to Jesus' instruction?
"Are you" going to publicly oppose the Christians in the first century?
One thing you also have to understand is, some of the pillars of the church built on Jesus, the apostles who walked and lived with Jesus gave apostle Paul the right hand of fellowship and accepted him as a fellow apostle (Galatians 2:9).
"Are you" going to be the one who rejects his inspired method of preaching that Jesus appointed him for?[/quote]We could get straight to the point, at least when preferring to "Are you" try laying the cards out on the table, with less bible bashing..
{1} We may ask many questions concerning the bible, and I of course had come up with my own theories about the single man casting out demons, and the woman at the well, was she informed by the 70, the Messiah is coming, she believed in just a few words Jesus was the Messiah, without a second thought.
{2} Jesus gave the gift to caste out demons in His name to the 70 also to the 12, I don't believe the disciples knew the 70 by name, they rebuked this loner, and Jesus stood up for him, was he one of the 70? If this man isn't one of the 70, then who gave him the authority to do such miracles? It took some time for the disciples to learn the ropes, so how or where did this man receive such authority to caste out demons, and heal the sick, if he wasn't walking with Christ?
{Matthew 7:7-8} Ask and shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and it will be open, and for everyone that asked received and he that seeks finds, and to him that knocks it shall be open.
{1} So lets start with Paul and how did Paul be an apostle since he was NOT one of Jesus' original twelve disciples?
We could say:Paul can rightfully be called an apostle because he fulfilled the same three basic requirements the specially-selected twelve original disciples met.
After the death of Judas, the church (totaling about 120) met in Jerusalem to decide who among them would be uniquely qualified to replace him {Acts 1} Those to be considered for this awesome responsibility had to have been personally called by Christ, taught by him directly for several years, and seen him alive after his resurrection {Acts 1:17, 22, 25}. Paul was the perfect candidate..
Saul of Tarsus, whose name would later be changed to Paul, was initially a zealous persecutor of those who believed Christ was the Messiah {Acts 9} While traveling to Damascus in 33 A.D, three years after Jesus was resurrected, he was was miraculously confronted by the Lord and brought to repentance {verses 3 to 6} While he stayed in Damascus, a believer named Ananias received a vision that revealed why Paul was called and chosen to ultimately take on the responsibility of an apostle.
But the Lord said to him {Ananias}, "Go, for this man {Paul} is a chosen vessel to Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel; For I will show him what great things he must suffer for My name" {Acts 9:15 -16}
After Paul was baptized in Damascus he began to powerful preach that Christ was the Son of God {Acts 9:20-22} Death threats from Jews living in the city, who rejected his message, drove him to flee to Arabia.
During his three years of exile in Arabia he was personally taught by Jesus {Acts 9:20-25, Galatians 1:11-12, 15-18} At this point in his life he fulfilled the same basic criteria the original disciples did in regard to being considered an apostle.
Biblical evidence exists that shows, and reaffirms, Paul's calling as an apostle. In {Acts 13} the church in Syrian Antioch is told by God to "separate both Barnabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have called them" {Acts 13:2}
The church soon lays hands on the two men and sends them out to evangelize {verses 3-4} After this event Luke, the writer of the book of Acts, labels both men as apostles {Acts 14:14}
Paul himself, in many of his writings, asserts his right to be called an apostle {1 Corinthians 1:1, 2 Corinthians 11:5, Galatians 1:1, Colossians 1:1, 1 Timothy 1:1} Defending his unique calling to the churches in the Roman province of Galatia he writes the following.
Paul, an apostle, not sent from men nor made by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father {Galatians 1:12}
{Galatians 1:11} But I certify to you, brethren, that the gospel that was preached by me is not according to man, {12} Because neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it by man; rather, it was by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
{15} But when it pleased God, Who selected me from my mother's womb, and called me by His grace.
Paul wasn't actually chosen by the apostles, the Holy Spirit led Paul to be the last apostle.

lovingJehovah:
There is no need to get contentional, bro. You may read my comment again. It has no iota of judgment to warrant your this sort of introduction. In any case, I have read your comment and I have some doubts.
understanding what the 70 were about, they prepared the way for Jesus
Your comment above is questionable. Can you provide biblical references to back it up?
was he one of the 70?
Evidently, he wasn't
And were the 70 part of the 120 disciples in Acts, they all received the Holy Spirit.
We cannot say for sure the names of the entire 120. Do you know some detail that we don't?
The training of Jesus' disciples has now reached a crucial juncture
When did it reach this crucial juncture? Can you provide biblical evidence to back this up?
But what about the crowds? When does he send them out? He doesn't. [/color]
They've come for a spiritual meal, while the disciples, the "learners," have come to learn a way of life, not everybody can preach the ways of Christ.
The above is shocking. Bro, how did you arrive at this? Can you support this statement with a biblical reference? In your words, there are three sets of people around Jesus, the apostles (the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority), the crowd (who come for a spiritual meal) and the disciples (the "learners," who come to learn a way of life), yes?

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Reaction When Jehovah Witnesses Knock On Your Door? by brocab: 1:27am On Nov 26, 2017*

One minute you are preaching to me, the next minute your telling me "what I am about to say? If you are looking for a good digestion, then at least give me enough time to prepare, and lets talk about the 70-Jesus had sent out to prepare the way in {Luke 9:1-10}
I am not seeking after which organisation want's to take all the credit, and I do read the scriptures to know Paul was the last apostle, if you are hear to judge me, I am not interested, but if you are here to learn, I am here to learn also, and it's important to understand the scriptures, and understanding what the 70 were about, they prepared the way for Jesus, it makes sense when we read about the Samaritan woman at the well, she heard about the Messiah coming, who is called the Christ {John 4:25}
We also read about the disciples rebuking a man on the road, he was casting out demons in Jesus's name {Mark 9:38-39} we could guess, was he one of the 70? And were the 70 part of the 120 disciples in Acts, they all received the Holy Spirit.
[1] When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.
[2] He told them: "Take nothing for the journey -- no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic, Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town.
[3] If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them."
[4] So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere.
[5] Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life.
For the first time in Luke's Gospel, Jesus finally calls upon his disciples to do something.
Up until now they have been primarily observers and hearers. He has taught a hundred crowds in their hearing, imbedded in their minds his message and methods day after day, week after week, month after month until they know them by heart. Now it is time to send them out to learn how to "minister."
Some disciples never seem to get beyond hearing. They are "feeders but never farmers." "They come to church for a meal" not a mission.
The training of Jesus' disciples has now reached a crucial juncture. In verses {1-2} we see a kind of rhythm. Gathering and sending, gathering and sending.
"When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority ... and he sent them out.{Luke 9:1-2}
For now it is the Twelve Apostles, later he calls the Seventy {Luke 10:1-24} and sends them out the same way He sends out the 12.
But what about the crowds? When does he send them out? He doesn't.
They've come for a spiritual meal, while the disciples, the "learners," have come to learn a way of life, not everybody can preach the ways of Christ.
And not everyone are saved, Many are called, but few are chosen..

lovingJehovah:
I am glad that you mentioned the instruction given to the 70 in Luke chapter 10. Jesus gave these 35 pairs instruction to kick off this preaching campaign in 32 CE. You will recall that the earlier instruction was to preach only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6) which you can agree that you and I are not a part of. Regardless, he kept expanding the campaign and the opportunity for others to hear the preaching about his kingdom. In Matthew 10:11-12 “Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household"
You can see that he gave a clear instruction to enter houses and meet with householders. Moreover, the opportunity was extended to people of the nations which opened the door for you and I, who are not part of the lost sheep of the physical Israel, to embrace the hope of everlasting life in the kingdom of God. Do you recall apostle Paul on his way to Damascus? Well, he was given a special assignment to people of the nation(you and me). Romans 11:13 Now I speak to you who are people of the nations. Seeing that I am an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry.
Now, how did Jesus inspire Paul to handle this assignment? He was a missionary to many congregations and he wrote some of the compelling books in the Bible under the inspiration of God, through Jesus Christ, our lord. We can see how he handled the preaching assignment in the book of Acts 5:42 "And every day in the temple and from house to house they(Paul and other Christians) continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus"
Acts 20:20 slaving for the Lord with all humility and with tears and trials that befell me by the plots of the Jews, 20 while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house"
The above scripture clearly shows us how the Christians in the first century handled the work of preaching the Good news about Christ and his father, Jehovah God.
So, are you going to tell me now that they were misguided or disobedient to Jesus' instruction?
Are you going to publicly oppose the Christians in the first century?
One thing you also have to understand is, some of the pillars of the church built on Jesus, the apostles who walked and lived with Jesus gave apostle Paul the right hand of fellowship and accepted him as a fellow apostle (Galatians 2:9).
Are you going to be the one who rejects his inspired method of preaching that Jesus appointed him for?

Christianity Etc › Re: Catholicism's SHOCKING Attitude Toward The Bible! by brocab: 11:14pm On Nov 25, 2017

Forgiven!

Ubenedictus:
must have mixed ur username with that of johnw7. sorry it's a mistake.

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