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vaxx:Nothing gives humans the right to "test on a defenseless animal". You know what we are like acting like gods and assuming? So ethical standards are imposed to limit that "right". At least, to impose standards you must adhere to and limit what you can do under your assumed " right". |
vaxx:And this, 'egocentric', is the reason why there are ethical standards that apply to clinical research! We refuse to allow your egocentric nature the freedom to do as it might like! The imposition of ethical standards is how we reign your egocentric nature in. Please be aware, not all humans have an "egocentric nature" as such. Some, do not place their ego at the forefront when taking decisions. And the ego definitely mustn't be a consideration in clinical research as the seven main principles clearly show. |
vaxx:The Nuremberg Code does not state that any experiment can be performed if the patient gives consent! You can't even carry out any experiment you want on a rat that is considered incapable of giving consent, so how the heck can you be limiting ethics to consent? The use of animals in research should evolve out of a strong sense of ethical self-examination. Ethical self-examination involves a careful self-analysis of one's own personal and scientific motives. Moreover, it requires a recognition of animal suffering and a satisfactory working through of that suffering in terms of one's ethical values. John P. Gluck; Ethics and Behavior, Vol. 1, 1991 The link I provided specifically states seven main principles described as guiding the conduct of ethical research, of which 'consent', an ethical consideration itself, 'informed' at that, is but one: Social and clinical value Scientific validity Fair subject selection Favorable risk-benefit ratio Independent review Informed consent Respect for potential and enrolled subjects If the above list stated "consent" alone, it still means ethics is of significance. |
vaxx:Do we agree that all clinical research must adhere to certain ethics as stated in the codes provided, and that no clinical research can legally be performed without considering the ethics involved? |
vaxx:There are many ethical codes that clinical trials must very strictly adhere to. A short list would include the Nuremberg Code (1947), Declaration of Helsinki (2000), Belmont Report (1979), CIOMS (2002) and U.S. Common Rule (1991). Sourced from the NIH Clinical Center |
vaxx:The experiment must be ethically acceptable and the experimenter must follow ethical procedures otherwise ethics are broken. You can't just perform any experiment you want even if the person performed on knows the risks and benefits involved and wants you to. |
But in a recent interview in TheWeek magazine, Buhari had insisted that allegations of corruption against him were false. “My integrity is intact,” he said and challenged anybody who can prove that he was corrupt as PTF executive chairman to take the matter to either the Christopher Kolade panel on review of contracts or soon to be established panel on corruption. |
MuttleyLaff:I've answered you mutt. The Holy Spirit doesn't often give better chapter and verse than I've already given you. And I didn't say it "meant"! It's meaning is not limited to that. |
vaxx:No, not any! What you describe there is what caused the Nuremberg Code to be created, and to stop the above! Since then, scientific experiment must be ethically accepted and ethically administered, so hardly "any condition of scientific experiment", even if the "victim in question" agrees. |
Glycolysis:I go back and read a lot. Never know if I missed when gods speak! |
MuttleyLaff: MuttleyLaff: |
MuttleyLaff:Nonsense! That's simply your understanding of the Bible, at level 101! |
Martinez19:Sleep well. |
MuttleyLaff:The "gods" Jesus and David at the very least meant are those who have a "spirit of power, love and a sound mind". |
Martinez19:Any faith that lacks work is indeed dead, and anyone who preaches it is serving a dead god. A "special person" who intends to reap without sowing would specially starve to death and can't have been said to have followed 'the Way'! |
MuttleyLaff:I'd rather be more specific. It's very easy to misunderstand. |
MuttleyLaff:Not true! Jesus is not claimed to have lost respect for God or treated God's "thou shall not eat...." with "total contempt" when he disobeyed his parents, worked on the Sabbath and said there were other gods! Not except for by those who dislike him and crucified him. |
Souless0:Tell him! |
MuttleyLaff:I did consider 'oun ro e', but generally find that tedious. I'm looking for refination to the written Yoruba, currently considering abandoning the search for the undercented e and o even, which is almost sacrilegious! I'll work on the apostrophe too as I really hate it! |
MuttleyLaff:In those two verses, and other similar, I think the word "fear" is a are misstranslation. It sure doesn't sit well with me. The bav has them as The knowledge of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction," says Proverbs 1:7 "The knowledge of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding," says Proverbs 9:10. You might wanna apply a rubber to your's. MuttleyLaff:Fallacy of false equivalence! "Fear", does not mean, "respect"! And I would think one sould have more respect for a God one has knowledge of than one is just afraid of? |
MuttleyLaff:Fear isn't "intrinsically evil and offensive". It is in fact a significant necessity in the development of the single individual and the entire human race. Fear after all saved us being dinner for lions and stops many walking across busy roads with their eyes shut. The doctrine of fear in Christianity however is a fear of ones own shadow at best hence hardly necessary. |
MuttleyLaff:Its because of the Laff in your moniker Oruko ni o n'ro e! |
MuttleyLaff:Depends. Depends on whether one has the "spirit of power, love and a sound mind". Of what relationship is a stick and a carrot to the "spirit of power, love and a sound mind"? Does the stick beat it into the mind or is the carrot meant to bribe the mind? How is it good when it wasn't good when tempted on the mountain? Everything is wrong when a doctrine of fear is promoted by a religion which also has a doctrine of love, I think. |
MuttleyLaff, you are funny! |
vaxx:I think I too must have this "half bake exposure to logic". I too don't know "that all human are test subject"! "Subjects" of, or to, whom, if you don't mind me asking? Google The Nuremberg Code . It is a set of research ethics principles for human experimentation set as a result of the Nuremberg trials at the end of the Second World War"".The 10 points constituted the "Nuremberg Code," which includes such principles as informed consent and absence of coercion; properly formulated scientific experimentation; and beneficence towards experiment participants. It is thought to have been mainly based on the Hippocratic Oath, which was interpreted as endorsing the experimental approach to medicine while protecting the patient. That sounds like the very opposite of "human are test subject", to me! |
vaxx:You sure do. And that's why we discourse a lot. What USA is doing is purely science and had no consideration of ethics . USA first above anyone. USA is strengthen her economic position in the world by weaken less scientific incline country.True. They are the "fittest". So they survive more. But we expect those not as "fit" as them, as you said, to fight back. Ethics is one of the tools used in fighting against some "developments". Ethics is after all the consideration of what is beneficial to the peaceful existence of life. It's what being human is about. The nuclear treaties is a clear example of ethics tempering unethical "development". The plight of the Ogoni's is development where ethics was suspended. We are sometimes sows who just eat the weak, and even our own offspring, but someday, the offspring fights back. Building of sophisticated weapon to be sold to Saudi Arabia in fighting Syria is unethical but it financially rewarding.Tell me. See what's happening in Yemen!? And just for more money! It is not acceptable, or, right! USA is behaving unethically! |
As to the topic of the thread, "why do you fear the antichrist?" I think it's because the religion that introduces the antichrist is practiced from a fear perspective with it's "you will surely die" at the very beginning, and of eternal damnation, being turned into salt, being drowned in a flood, swallowed by a whale, gnashing of teeth, not living eternally and burning in hell peppered through their text. It's the hook used to catch the adherents who follow the antichrist doctrine. |
Adakintroy:What do you mean by "consider as singular"? What is it that you consider "as singular"? A person in the physical who lay claim to absolute faith therefor can be said to be a liar.I have absolute faith, that tomorrow Thursday, the fifth of September two thousand and eighteen, and the day after, and the day after, and the day after that, and the day after that....., that I buda, will be alive. Absolute faith in God is hardly posible..It depends. It depends on what you mean by "God". People these days tend to combine all sort of things in that word, "God”. What's your definition? What God are you referring to? Evidence abound on the outside to support both claims.I beg to differ. Except if one were willing to do the following! At the the same time, evidence on the outside hardly matters.So you ignore it? Shame on you! It may or may not prove anything depending on our already existing believe.So, you cover your eyes to retain your blindness? I can't believe you said this twice! It's not the outside men draws faith from. It's on the inside."Know ye not that ye are gods? "The Kingdom of God is within you!" You hundred percent redeem yourself with this one. |
StillX10:This is interesting. Wonder if you'd like to discuss. I'd like to know what you mean by "There is atheism within me" . |
Martinez19:Note that I said she adopts the view that since she is so special, so much [work] is required from her. And she does work, a lot, and for the benefit of others. I, after all, would not support her if she sponges off me. Martinez19:Come on! A carpenter who spends money on the wrong tools which he then works all day, can't be said to have worked now, can he? We need to find a different word for what you describe here. Work though, if you can agree, is doing the right things to accomplish the desired results. Essentially, the measure of work done is the result achieved at the end. |
vaxx:"Objectively well" ? I think you are subjectively baiting me, as both words have no meaning here. What USA is doing is exactly what science that is not tempered by ethics would do. USA is simply taking advantage of it's superior global position, and yes, "Iran, Russia and China" are a few of the nations standing up to them. Scientists, in a world that places 'life' above the acquisition of knowledge, would do exactly the same. |
Martinez19:A cousin of mine once told me, while eating my food and living under my roof, that her anointing from God was assured, implying she was special and God would provide her with everything she required. I chased her out the house that day. But she eventually made me realise that to her whom so much has been assured, so much more is expected in return, and her assurance was not so much that she should sit on her ass awaiting manna from heaven, but go up to heaven and bring it down for those not as assured as she is privileged to be. It is 18 years later, and her assurance is exactly as she claimed it was as she constantly goes up to the heavens to bring manna for those not as assured as she is. My point is, teaching the privilege of "you are special" includes special duties. And teaching the privilege without the duties is what is detrimental and dangerous. |
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make una stop mentioning me upandan nah 