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Budaatum's Posts

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum:
vaxx:
first what gives human the right to test on a defenseless animal, if not egocentric....i wonder what it is ?
Nothing gives humans the right to "test on a defenseless animal". You know what we are like acting like gods and assuming? So ethical standards are imposed to limit that "right". At least, to impose standards you must adhere to and limit what you can do under your assumed " right".
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 2:16pm On Sep 06, 2018
vaxx:
The fact is that whether we are curious about how a new drug may work on humans or how we may survive outer space, our collective mentality comes from the curiosity that separates us from most other animals - the need to know how things work. We would kill not just to eat, but dissect animals to get a good idea what's inside them and hence, probably inside us. It's just in our nature to be egocentric.
And this, 'egocentric', is the reason why there are ethical standards that apply to clinical research! We refuse to allow your egocentric nature the freedom to do as it might like! The imposition of ethical standards is how we reign your egocentric nature in.

Please be aware, not all humans have an "egocentric nature" as such. Some, do not place their ego at the forefront when taking decisions. And the ego definitely mustn't be a consideration in clinical research as the seven main principles clearly show.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 1:23pm On Sep 06, 2018
vaxx:
my argument is ethics or no ethics, so far the patient consent is attested, the experiment can be carry out. And Nuremberg code of 1, 2 And 4 confirm it.
The Nuremberg Code does not state that any experiment can be performed if the patient gives consent! You can't even carry out any experiment you want on a rat that is considered incapable of giving consent, so how the heck can you be limiting ethics to consent?

The use of animals in research should evolve out of a strong sense of ethical self-examination. Ethical self-examination involves a careful self-analysis of one's own personal and scientific motives. Moreover, it requires a recognition of animal suffering and a satisfactory working through of that suffering in terms of one's ethical values.
John P. Gluck; Ethics and Behavior, Vol. 1, 1991

The link I provided specifically states seven main principles described as guiding the conduct of ethical research, of which 'consent', an ethical consideration itself, 'informed' at that, is but one:

Social and clinical value
Scientific validity
Fair subject selection
Favorable risk-benefit ratio
Independent review
Informed consent
Respect for potential and enrolled subjects


If the above list stated "consent" alone, it still means ethics is of significance.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 12:56pm On Sep 06, 2018
vaxx:
Good, go thru those code and you will still see it validate Nuremberg code of 1 And 4.

In addition, the idea of informed consent has been universally accepted and now constitutes Article 7 of the United Nations' ""International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It also served as the basis for International Ethical Guidelines for Biomedical Research Involving Human Subjects proposed by the World Health Organization""

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Ethical_Guidelines_for_Biomedical_Research_Involving_Human_Subjects
Do we agree that all clinical research must adhere to certain ethics as stated in the codes provided, and that no clinical research can legally be performed without considering the ethics involved?
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 12:39pm On Sep 06, 2018
vaxx:
clinical trials bro..
There are many ethical codes that clinical trials must very strictly adhere to. A short list would include the Nuremberg Code (1947), Declaration of Helsinki (2000), Belmont Report (1979), CIOMS (2002) and U.S. Common Rule (1991).

Sourced from the NIH Clinical Center
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 12:02pm On Sep 06, 2018
vaxx:
There are no ethics broken if the participant was fully aware of the risks and benefits involved.
The experiment must be ethically acceptable and the experimenter must follow ethical procedures otherwise ethics are broken.

You can't just perform any experiment you want even if the person performed on knows the risks and benefits involved and wants you to.
Politics › Re: How Buhari Ran PTF; Full Article - Newswatch (photo) by budaatum: 11:22am On Sep 06, 2018
But in a recent interview in TheWeek magazine, Buhari had insisted that allegations of corruption against him were false. “My integrity is intact,” he said and challenged anybody who can prove that he was corrupt as PTF executive chairman to take the matter to either the Christopher Kolade panel on review of contracts or soon to be established panel on corruption.
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 11:01am On Sep 06, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
Budaatum, you really are singing a different part of the hymn book
Now, again, please provide the bible verses that supports that "gods" means "spirit of power, love and a sound mind".
Let's have the bible verses that says, gods means spirit of power, love and sound mind
I've answered you mutt. The Holy Spirit doesn't often give better chapter and verse than I've already given you.

And I didn't say it "meant"! It's meaning is not limited to that.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 10:59am On Sep 06, 2018
vaxx:
The first two and the four code clearly state that human can be subject into any condition of scientific experiment if the victim in question Cleary agree with it.
No, not any! What you describe there is what caused the Nuremberg Code to be created, and to stop the above!

Since then, scientific experiment must be ethically accepted and ethically administered, so hardly "any condition of scientific experiment", even if the "victim in question" agrees.
Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Atheism? by budaatum: 10:36am On Sep 06, 2018
Glycolysis:
You're still on these ? cheesy cheesy
I go back and read a lot. Never know if I missed when gods speak!
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 10:23am On Sep 06, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
Bud, you seem to be singing a different part of the hymn book
so please provide the bible verses that substantiates that "gods" means "spirit of power, love and a sound mind".
MuttleyLaff:
If you have the spirit of power, love and a sound mind, you wouldnt fear the Anti-Christ(s)

You wouldnt fear the antichrist, if you have power, love and a sound mind
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 1:11am On Sep 06, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
Bible 101, Jesus, is God being on earth.
Nonsense! That's simply your understanding of the Bible, at level 101!
Christianity Etc › Re: The Dangerous "You Are Special" Programming. by budaatum: 1:04am On Sep 06, 2018
Martinez19:
*sighs* goodnight.
Sleep well.
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 1:03am On Sep 06, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
What is the context and your understanding of the meaning of gods, as used by Jesus and David prior to Jesus'?
The "gods" Jesus and David at the very least meant are those who have a "spirit of power, love and a sound mind".
Christianity Etc › Re: The Dangerous "You Are Special" Programming. by budaatum: 12:36am On Sep 06, 2018
Martinez19:
"faith without works is dead"
Any faith that lacks work is indeed dead, and anyone who preaches it is serving a dead god. A "special person" who intends to reap without sowing would specially starve to death and can't have been said to have followed 'the Way'!
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 12:28am On Sep 06, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
In that context, it really means "respect", whether when being a noun or verb, it still, does means respect.
I'd rather be more specific. It's very easy to misunderstand.
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 12:00am On Sep 06, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
When you lose respect for God, you look at His "thou shall not eat...." instruction with total contempt.
Not true! Jesus is not claimed to have lost respect for God or treated God's "thou shall not eat...." with "total contempt" when he disobeyed his parents, worked on the Sabbath and said there were other gods! Not except for by those who dislike him and crucified him.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Dangerous "You Are Special" Programming. by budaatum: 11:47pm On Sep 05, 2018
Souless0:
sad make una stop mentioning me upandan nah sad
Even without her telling me all those things, I know I will be great. I've been working towards it... grin
Tell him!
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 11:43pm On Sep 05, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
Muttley laughs though not because Muttley is funny
but hey bud, please, you too have joined gang, bastardising the best language in the world
Was the apostrophe necessary in that remark?
Or is it a case of being borne out of an aesthetic pleasure?
I did consider 'oun ro e', but generally find that tedious. I'm looking for refination to the written Yoruba, currently considering abandoning the search for the undercented e and o even, which is almost sacrilegious! I'll work on the apostrophe too as I really hate it!
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 11:36pm On Sep 05, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction," says Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding," says Proverbs 9:10.
In those two verses, and other similar, I think the word "fear" is a are misstranslation. It sure doesn't sit well with me.

The bav has them as The knowledge of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction," says Proverbs 1:7
"The knowledge of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding," says Proverbs 9:10.

You might wanna apply a rubber to your's.

MuttleyLaff:
When you lose respect for God,...
Fallacy of false equivalence! "Fear", does not mean, "respect"! And I would think one sould have more respect for a God one has knowledge of than one is just afraid of?
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 10:54pm On Sep 05, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
C'mon now bud, you make it sound like as if fear is intrinsically evil and offensive
Fear isn't "intrinsically evil and offensive". It is in fact a significant necessity in the development of the single individual and the entire human race. Fear after all saved us being dinner for lions and stops many walking across busy roads with their eyes shut. The doctrine of fear in Christianity however is a fear of ones own shadow at best hence hardly necessary.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 10:42pm On Sep 05, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
I thought its because of Laff in the moniker
but alas, Nooooo o, its because I am learning, fast, from the best. You!
Its because of the Laff in your moniker
Oruko ni o n'ro e!
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 10:36pm On Sep 05, 2018
MuttleyLaff:
"not living eternally and burning in hell" is carrot and stick. Nothing wrong in that or is there?
Depends. Depends on whether one has the "spirit of power, love and a sound mind".

Of what relationship is a stick and a carrot to the "spirit of power, love and a sound mind"? Does the stick beat it into the mind or is the carrot meant to bribe the mind? How is it good when it wasn't good when tempted on the mountain?

Everything is wrong when a doctrine of fear is promoted by a religion which also has a doctrine of love, I think.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 10:15pm On Sep 05, 2018
MuttleyLaff, you are funny!
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 10:14pm On Sep 05, 2018
vaxx:
Personal incredulity fallacy spotted. ""Your half bake exposure to logic do not let you know that all human are test subject.
I think I too must have this "half bake exposure to logic". I too don't know "that all human are test subject"!

"Subjects" of, or to, whom, if you don't mind me asking?

Google The Nuremberg Code . It is a set of research ethics principles for human experimentation set as a result of the Nuremberg trials at the end of the Second World War"".
The 10 points constituted the "Nuremberg Code," which includes such principles as informed consent and absence of coercion; properly formulated scientific experimentation; and beneficence towards experiment participants. It is thought to have been mainly based on the Hippocratic Oath, which was interpreted as endorsing the experimental approach to medicine while protecting the patient.

That sounds like the very opposite of "human are test subject", to me!
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 10:01pm On Sep 05, 2018
vaxx:
what make them superior in the global world? Yes we could begin the argument, you will begin to post me the constraint or factor that are objectively acceptable to consider in placing them in such position. I choose my words carefully bro.
You sure do. And that's why we discourse a lot.

What USA is doing is purely science and had no consideration of ethics . USA first above anyone. USA is strengthen her economic position in the world by weaken less scientific incline country.
True. They are the "fittest". So they survive more.
But we expect those not as "fit" as them, as you said, to fight back.

Ethics is one of the tools used in fighting against some "developments". Ethics is after all the consideration of what is beneficial to the peaceful existence of life. It's what being human is about. The nuclear treaties is a clear example of ethics tempering unethical "development". The plight of the Ogoni's is development where ethics was suspended. We are sometimes sows who just eat the weak, and even our own offspring, but someday, the offspring fights back.

Building of sophisticated weapon to be sold to Saudi Arabia in fighting Syria is unethical but it financially rewarding.
Tell me. See what's happening in Yemen!? And just for more money!

It is not acceptable, or, right! USA is behaving unethically!
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Do You Fear The Anti-christ? by budaatum: 9:37pm On Sep 05, 2018
As to the topic of the thread, "why do you fear the antichrist?"

I think it's because the religion that introduces the antichrist is practiced from a fear perspective with it's "you will surely die" at the very beginning, and of eternal damnation, being turned into salt, being drowned in a flood, swallowed by a whale, gnashing of teeth, not living eternally and burning in hell peppered through their text. It's the hook used to catch the adherents who follow the antichrist doctrine.
Christianity Etc › Re: Know Ye Not That Atheism Is Within You. by budaatum: 9:24pm On Sep 05, 2018
Adakintroy:
Atheism is consider in a broader sense absent of believe in a supreme being. Which stem from the human self. Which I consider as singular.
What do you mean by "consider as singular"? What is it that you consider "as singular"?

A person in the physical who lay claim to absolute faith therefor can be said to be a liar.
I have absolute faith, that tomorrow Thursday, the fifth of September two thousand and eighteen, and the day after, and the day after, and the day after that, and the day after that....., that I buda, will be alive.

Absolute faith in God is hardly posible..
It depends. It depends on what you mean by "God". People these days tend to combine all sort of things in that word, "God”. What's your definition? What God are you referring to?

Evidence abound on the outside to support both claims.
I beg to differ. Except if one were willing to do the following!

At the the same time, evidence on the outside hardly matters.
So you ignore it? Shame on you!

It may or may not prove anything depending on our already existing believe.
So, you cover your eyes to retain your blindness? I can't believe you said this twice!

It's not the outside men draws faith from. It's on the inside.
"Know ye not that ye are gods?
"The Kingdom of God is within you!"

You hundred percent redeem yourself with this one.
Christianity Etc › Re: Know Ye Not That Atheism Is Within You. by budaatum: 9:02pm On Sep 05, 2018
StillX10:
There is atheism within me
my believe in is absolute
I don't have several inner parts that choose what to believe and what not to believe

God revealed Himself in Jesus Christ and that's how we know Him and because of the Power of His Spirit living in us
This is interesting. Wonder if you'd like to discuss. I'd like to know what you mean by "There is atheism within me" .
Christianity Etc › Re: The Dangerous "You Are Special" Programming. by budaatum: 6:18pm On Sep 05, 2018
Martinez19:
I agree with you on the last paragraph. If your story is true, then I would say she is fortunate enough to have her hard work pay off. Her hard work paying off isn't due to some special anointing. People who are told that they are special do work but not with the full seriousness and effort required. Few are fortunate while many are spanked hard by reality.
Note that I said she adopts the view that since she is so special, so much [work] is required from her. And she does work, a lot, and for the benefit of others.

I, after all, would not support her if she sponges off me.

Martinez19:
How about those that were told that they are special, they worked and had no headway in life?
Come on! A carpenter who spends money on the wrong tools which he then works all day, can't be said to have worked now, can he? We need to find a different word for what you describe here.

Work though, if you can agree, is doing the right things to accomplish the desired results. Essentially, the measure of work done is the result achieved at the end.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Scientist And His Dogs: A Modern Parable by budaatum: 3:21pm On Sep 05, 2018
vaxx:
USA is using their brand of recognition objectively well. Some country are waking up to challenge this and it is sending a signal of worries to them. Iran, Russia and China are typical example.

WHEN the brand become faded , we shall look at other option. And it is fading now.
"Objectively well" ? I think you are subjectively baiting me, as both words have no meaning here.

What USA is doing is exactly what science that is not tempered by ethics would do. USA is simply taking advantage of it's superior global position, and yes, "Iran, Russia and China" are a few of the nations standing up to them. Scientists, in a world that places 'life' above the acquisition of knowledge, would do exactly the same.
Christianity Etc › Re: The Dangerous "You Are Special" Programming. by budaatum: 3:12pm On Sep 05, 2018
Martinez19:
My topic may not make sense but those that can relate would understand. This phenomenon is happening to many people and many are getting spanked hard by reality.
A cousin of mine once told me, while eating my food and living under my roof, that her anointing from God was assured, implying she was special and God would provide her with everything she required.

I chased her out the house that day. But she eventually made me realise that to her whom so much has been assured, so much more is expected in return, and her assurance was not so much that she should sit on her ass awaiting manna from heaven, but go up to heaven and bring it down for those not as assured as she is privileged to be.

It is 18 years later, and her assurance is exactly as she claimed it was as she constantly goes up to the heavens to bring manna for those not as assured as she is.

My point is, teaching the privilege of "you are special" includes special duties. And teaching the privilege without the duties is what is detrimental and dangerous.

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