₦airaland Forum

delexy123:
You are now getting my point but for an idea to grow in the mind as you suggested it must have been conceived in the first place and this still begs the question that is never goes away...how did the idea of 'god' become conceived in the mind of the early man in first place? or let me simply put it this way...at what point does the early man became conscious of the 'unseen'?
Also, If man Do Not Know how the idea of a 'god' came into the mind of the early man in the first place, why then do he feel the need to quickly dismiss the existence of 'god'?

I wonder if you have heard of the one million pounds that I conceive to be in my bank account? I'm gonna buy me a spanking brand new red Ferrari with it someday.

There are lots of things early humans conceived only to later find to not exist, or not be as conceived. The flat earth, is one, that the earth is the centre of the universe is another and just so I make up a trinity is the fact that the earth is not the centre of the universe as earlier thought. Humans think, or conceive things - take your pick. It is a part of their consciousness. The fact that humans can think of a thing does not however bring that thing into existence.

That said, we do not quickly' dismiss the existence of gods. We been working on it since humans gained consciousness and the ability to think and reason!

NPComplete:
You atheists have corrupted many people on this forum with your ideology. May the blood of Jesus wash away your sins.

Aamen!

BLESSMME:
Wow Wow Wow
If not that I have come to know God for myself, you and your likes would av dragged me out of Christianity with your incessant curses. I have never read any argument between Christians and atheists without getting angry at the Christian folks. You are supposed to be peaceful and argue smartly, but the reverse is the case. Every point he made is VERY VALID.

God bless you!

enilove:
The pains hyenas and some animals experience during giving birth is designed by God and not because of any sin. That is known to God that created them.

It's actually written in the animal bible. You humans can't see or read it!

fineboynl:
have you seen any animal that need or gave assistance to other animal like the humans?

Yes. One day, a hawk swooped down to steal one hen's chicken. As the hawk grabbed this chicken now, the mother hen quickly jumped and hook the hawk. Na so the hawk flew, but the mother hen held on tight until the hawk dropped the chicken and then the mother hen too released the hawk having saved its chicken.

You silly question! All animals protect their young. Some even live in colonies to provide protection for their old too and call out to one another to warn of danger.

delexy123:
Why Do Man Debate The Existence Of A 'god'?

Here's one question I haven't answered!

We debate the existence of god because it is a topic that speaks to our existence. We perceive the world around us and cannot conceive it could exist without it being created. We also cannot conceive how we came into existence since our consciousness came long afterwards. We therefore look back and place a god in the gap, or a big bang (god in another guise) hence my, "Basically, humans made god up", to explain that which we were not sufficiently capable of explaining.

We are getting better though, through constantly debating it. We debate to learn more.

delexy123:
Hmmm...it is either you didn't get the question or you are willfully ignoring it...let me simplify this...if the early man could only relate with his physical world then how did the idea of the 'unseen' or 'spiritual' became conceived in his mind?

First your assumption that early man "could only relate with his physical world", is wrong. Early humans dreamed and understood the dreams to not be physical and real. The early human knew stones did not have life, and that the dead became like stones, and assumed that which left the living was the spirit which dwelt in the netherworld when the human died. Even elephants weep over their dead. The mind and body dichotomy has always been a part of consciousness.

How did they come to this consciousness, is therefore, what I think you are asking?

If I claim to know such a thing I'd have to be like omniknowitall or some arrogant dame! What I can assume is that an idea grew in the mind to become what we now know it to be today.

I hope I have not ignored the question, but let me know if I have misunderstood it.

John 1

Let There Be Enlightenment!

The chapter begins by stating the importance of the word. At the time, the written word itself was deemed of great importance amongst the Jews, to whom this was most relevant. It was even deemed holy amongst some and not meant for those who were considered unholy so this would have been like Prometheus who defies the gods by stealing fire and giving it to humanity thereby enabling progress and civilization.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us".

Behold, the Tree of Life!




A correction was necessary in light of conversation with MuttleyLaff. See posts below. I had previously written,
[s]Behold, the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil![/s]

The intention here is to go through the entire book by chapter. I do not expect everyone to agree to anyone's single opinion. I however hope that those with the spirit be led by the spirit and those led by other things or by themselves to be led by that which leads them. I am aware that for some of us, there is no god. However, let this not be the thread for it.

I can not impose rules as I do not have the authority, but might I ask that the rules of Nairaland be strictly adhered to. May I also plead with you to go by chapter so as not to derail the thread.

I must add this personal because I know I will have to say it at some point, Sciencewatch, please refrain from derailing this thread! (Forgive me.)

I have chosen the New International Version but do not allow yourself to be limited by my choice.

Here's to a fruitful discussion. So mote it be.

I confess to only reading the first post. It doesn't sound any different to what any church would do. They all know the profit of book publishing, and personally, considering how few books are available in Nigeria, if for nothing else, I commend them. People will be stupider without them!

One thing I get from it however is that the Orolu Library Book of the Month will be 1984. Thanks.

Basically, don't trust anyone, live in fear of them, become schizoid because the whole world is out to get you?

Anyone would tell you that's a complete waste of time and effort, but I'll let the Christians tell you it is also a waste of the blood of Jesus!

MrPresident1:
You dinor call me so awinor ahnssa yhu

He dinor cal me eyeda bot I wi ansa!

I asked my dad this same question when I was 10 and heard it told in church. My dad's one of those lawyer types, question question question, and this apple fell from the same tree. He even made me read the entire Book of Job to him! Finally, after days of questioning he looks at me and says "Child, its just a story teaching how fateful one should be. It's not that it really happened that Yahweh and Satan were playing pool with Job's life".

I'm like, "It better not have happened, or that Job has a right to go burn that god down in his heaven!"

Seems you been welcomed, op.

danvon:
I think it's just another atheist bashing religion more specifically Christianity for 67 pages at that

Yep "bashing", though I would call it 'critiquing', which to me is essential. History has shown that a proper analysis of religion - including its books, doctrine, practise, beliefs, gods and so on - allows for better understanding of existence and better use of that which we claim is divine and incomprehensible.

You would hardly see an English person pick up a bible to read today for instance, but you would see what people assume to be solely biblical principles (love, charity), practised extensively in their daily dealings with people. I claim the Bible is even written in the lines on the roads. People sure seem to obey them like god put them there.

One need not be an atheist is my point, but adopting a believe uncritically..... well ones choice I guess. There are many believers getting on with their lives without some atheist ridiculing their beliefs. But expect to be questioned if you come on here and say everyone should believe too.

danvon:
That's what I was just reading

Let me know what you make of it.

danvon:
Na all they do is blow sentiments the same thing they are supposed to be against, they never use logic I've read an atheist book once very convincing, but most atheist don't have that reasoning especially the ones on nairaland

Really? I am going to follow you for awhile to see some of the posts you're reading. I personally find some good stuff on here myself.

Have you seen joseph1013's thread? Op puts a lot of thought into his writing, and it doesn't seem like he's trying to convince. It's my current favorite thread.


Might I suggest you stop trying to be convinced. It's not like religion, which aims to make you a believer.

danvon:
Too bad that these intelligent atheist won't share their 'logical truth' With us

They do you know. In fact, they can't bloody shut up! Just google Atheist, or search through threads on here to know.

hahn:
2 month ban o

What did you do?!

Please ensure you are keeping copies of these posts. I ran a similar thing in another forum years ago but lost it all when the forum went down. It will make a good book someday.

joseph1013:
RELIGION AND THE BICAMERAL MIND

Humans are a type of ape. We evolved from animals with limited reasoning skills that relied largely on instinct and emotions to survive. We came to exist when new brain tissue evolved, capable of logic and planning but we never lost our primitive brain. So our species is cursed with battling brain parts--the part that wants to follow our emotions and the part that wants order, logic and planning.

Sometimes it works out beautifully. From this battle emerges wonderful art, music, architecture and inventions that have literally changed the world and made us the most powerful creatures on the planet. And sometimes it is terrible.

All too often the old brain rides roughshod over the upstart new brain and we behave much as our distant ancestors would have behaved. Driven by hate, anger, greed and the big daddy of them all, fear, we defend our own, and attack outsiders. Reason tells us human life is valuable and must be protected but wrath ignores reason and lashes out.

We all have the potential to be murderous, no matter how smart and civilised we appear. We may wish it was otherwise, but it is not. If we ever lose our instinctive, emotional brain we will no longer be human. We will have become a new species.

It is this quirk of evolution that makes religion so dangerous for humans. Religions live in our emotional brain and can make outsiders of anyone with different beliefs--sometimes, even our own children. And the emotional part of our brain knows outsiders are a threat... This is why religion is a ticking time bomb that can only be fully neutralised by training the new brain to eradicate religion from the old brain.

The good news is we know this is possible--millions of people have achieved it. The bad news is most humans resist change so it's taking too long and people are being killed every day in the name of religion.

The religions that most of us have today are simply too dangerous for our bicameral minds--it is like mixing fuel and fire. This is why they must go.

hahn:
Jesus is not a historical figure. He is a product of myth

Salud.
Where you been?

Atheism should not be taught anywhere for it is equally as bad to teach people that there are no gods as to teach that there are gods, in school (I'm assuming all the way up to secondary here).

People should be taught to learn to seek evidence for that which they hold to be true. They should definitely not be told what to believe. The teaching of mathematics would be a very good template. No good teacher would tell anyone to believe in the Phytagoras Theorem for instance, without showing evidence to prove it. The teaching of the theorem goes a step further with the students learning to prove it themselves, or disprove it if they can. All learning should be this way. It is how people learn to be critical, able to self learn and utilise what they are taught.

People should be taught about religions and the history and philosophical ideas behind them. School should however not be church or mosque or temple, and every pupil should understand the fundamental tenets of every major religion in the world. The purpose of education should be to compare and contrast with facts, and not to make pupils believe or disbelieve.

I am afraid though that once the feet of clay that underpin religious belief is eroded, belief itself will disappear and the idea of gods will just die!