₦airaland Forum

Bethor:
@ OP, the question you should be asking is did the said Lucifer really rebelled or there is something those guys are hiding from us down here...?
Peace..!!!

An example of, on the 'Spiritual' level!

The Gnostic Christians believed in the light of Lucifer which they viewed as the enlightenment which he as the Serpent, also an Egyptian phallic form as the serpent Ami-Hemf "Dweller in the Flame," who enlightened the first parents, Adam and Eve, against God's will. Here Lucifer is likened to Prometheus who stole fire from heaven to give civilization to humanity. God denied the first two people the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but Lucifer gave them the light of wisdom.

These Gnostic sentiments and beliefs for Lucifer were held by the Persians as well. Unlike Orthodox Christians, they did not hold Jehovah as the good-God of mankind, but the Demiurge who created man for his own selfish interest. Lucifer was regarded as the hero, savior, and friend of man, who revealed the sacred mysteries which the Heavenly Father jealously withheld. Some, such as the Luciferians, held that Lucifer was the brother of God. These Gnostic beliefs persisted throughout the first half of the Christian era and well into the second half. Meister Eckhart said, Lucifer, the angel, who is in hell, has perfect intellect and to this day knows much. And, even to this day, for some, these sentiments persist.

Lucifer Meaning

festwiz:
OP, I don't know if you can follow this analogy but here goes,

A judge preciding over the case of a child molester/paedophile and finds the accused guilty of the crime and sentences him to a primary four classroom for his misdeeds. The molester has his way with the kids with the judge watching. The judge sentences the kids to a life sentence in prison for allowing themselves be used by the molester, whilst still leaving him (the molester) in the primary four class.

At what stages of the scenario above would the children have been saved?

More like it!

Doesn't make any sense at all. The teacher will just set exam. If you want, write the seniors answer and lets see who marks your work in the end. We shall then see who be teacher!

philipogunti:
That's why his ways are higher than our ways. Being insensitive to every accusation doesn't make u a better leader. God almighty had the power to destroy Satan and his demons but let me use an illustration. You were the principal and also the best teacher in your own school to the extent of gaining students trust and love. A kid from senior class perhaps ss2 came and started deluding the ones in younger class maybe js1. His remarks were “forget what mr adeola(principal) is teaching u guys, am more experienced and he is teaching u the long method, why don't u use the short method. I can teach u better than him."
The matter not only caused controversy but also tension as the younger ones were starting to doubt the teacher's credibility and unfortunately some were enticed by the senior student deceits and lies just because the senior student wanted to receive authority and prestige as did the principal. U could easily expel him and the ones who follow him, but that wouldn't solve the whole issue on ground cos he may be right. But as an experienced man, the principal gave the senior student authority he longed for only for a short period to lead the class and to settle the issue about authority. The story didn't end there, the senior had already enticed even senior students to follow his course, altogether they deceived the students and the principal could only watch, sad he used several teachers to warn the younger student to be careful and not to be deceived by the senior student's lies. After contemplation, among the younger students, some were remorseful and missed their principal's teachings. He was such a great teacher and we liked the way he illustrated things for us, they thought. They pleaded the principal to come to their aid, but what could the principal do. They were only a few students that wanted him back, the rest had even forgotten the principal and were more relaxed to the short method. After several yrs passed, and exam was on the corner. The concerned man called his only son who is studying abroad to leave his masters studies and come to his school and teach of which his son listened. Remember the principal promised not to interfere with the younger student and let the senior student and his minions take over but he repeatedly used his teacher to warn and explain little things, but they wouldn't yield because they had bn so content with the senior student ways of explaining things.
The principal's only son finally arrived and upon reaching the student to teach them, they were angry upon seeing him, they stormed after him beating him in unison and embarrassing the son of the principal but he didn't relent he continued teaching until junior waec, “the day of reckoning" came. Fortunately the few that listened to the principal's son passed but the rest that listened to the senior student, not that they didn't know what they wrote but u know waec now. Show your workings. After result came out, the principal then immediately progressed the few that listened to his son and expelled the ones that were defiant including the senior student and his minions. The good ones enjoyed the wholesome teaching of their principal and the whole school became united once again
Why did the principal send for his son and not use his teachers?
This is because the principal son is the only one he could use trusting the junior student will think his son will guide them through their exams remember that he used his teachers to warn them on several occasions and only the student was well informed like the principal. A brilliant one.
How does this correlate na?
The principal is God almighty, his son is Jesus. The senior student is devil and he succeeded in making former angels( senior student minions) and turned them on his own course. The teachers are prophets God used to warn everybody. Junior waec is Armageddon. I hope the story tells u something

obinna58:
Bible stated that God created Lucifer which means he as well programmed his actions, God purposely made Lucifer to challenge him

If I were God I'll learn not to be stupid

Classic!

I'd most likely say, "Prove it!"

patches689:
Sweden is the perfect example, socialists love to highlight it as a "success story". Compare the Sweden of 1950 and the Sweden of today - the nation has actually managed to degenerate. Its astounding.

The following is what I'm finding to describe Sweden today.

HOW SWEDEN CREATED A MODEL ECONOMY
The Swedish economy is performing well in comparison with other Western nations. Before, the country’s economy was sometimes dismissed as ‘socialist’, but now it is held up as an example of capitalism done right. How does Sweden do it?

That is indeed the rhetoric about communism, and the fact it has failed in practise is obvious. Nor am I claiming it to be a superior mode of governance. Communist nations however do suffer from embargoes from the capitalist world, either imposed from outside or from inside, which limits investment and thereby progress. As Adam Smith said, the baker wakes up early to bake bread because he loves his profit, and not because he loves his customers. Why would I want to invest money in a place where I was not allowed to make maximum profit?

The fact however is that the degeneration of nations is not because of its lack of spirituality or religion. Numerous nations have declined by the over emphases on the religious (the Aztecs, Egypt, Nigeria and Europe, for example).

patches689:
East Germanys lag is due purely to Communism. Not embargoes or anything of the sort.

Communism is an ineffective economic system when compared to Capitalism. This is a universal truth that stands clear as night and day - the more socialist a country, the poorer its economic growth/development.

Sweden is the perfect example, socialists love to highlight it as a "success story". Compare the Sweden of 1950 and the Sweden of today - the nation has actually managed to degenerate. Its astounding.

I am very sorry, but your misconceptions need to be addressed just so other readers do not be led astray!

vaxx:
Development is a literal terms, if you are using economics terminology, then identify it. human index development(access to quality health care , basic infrastructure and social amenities) in the west is far better than that of Africa. this is true. and do you know why? it has nothing to do with our concentration on spirituality but failure to annex our cultural system in line with our political system, instead we depend on the ideology of the west(capitalism).

Economically speaking, Nigeria's lack of development has everything to do with "our concentration on spirituality"! The spiritual appears to entail the call on phantom forces to aid in our development, symbolised by the Nigerians' preference to pray for divine intervention instead of direct personal intervention. The westerner however, would rather work their socks off and be the change they desire. Just look at the numerous buildings in our nation devoted to the spiritual, and the dearth of industry and factories and the consequent lack of employment. Also consider the lack of health facilities and the numerous faith healers that take their place. Do you know the west plunders our health service workers and more of our doctors work abroad than in Nigeria? While we focus on the spiritual, we unfortunately abandon the here and now
Please also read the opening post where the op says her boss would rather they get on with their work instead of praying on the time he pays them for.

vaxx:
No nations developed while relying on borrowed system. check china , Singapore, south Korea this nation were once colonized by the British and Japanese respectively....but these nation quickly realized following the former master ideology will not in any way yield profit. they draw the master plan of their economy in line with the cultural values and to day these once a colony state are at per of far better than their former master.

Not true! Not one single nation has significantly advanced until it came into contact with new foreign ideology! If fact, every single nation's progress has been predicate on the influx of foreign ideology! Yoruba land is a typical example. Obatala ruled. However the decadence of his rule is symbolised by his description as a drunk. He was usurped by Oduduwa, a foreigner.

Egypt is another example. In antiquity they borrowed knowledge from everywhere and became a great nation, as did Rome, and even the West who absorbed African might and Arabic philosophy to fuel its scientific revolution.

Do note that the old is always destroyed for the better to come about.

vaxx:
Africa in its early days was well organized, before the white set in. using the Yoruba society as an example, we give democracy and freedom to women in our society even before the west do. we lay a good foundation of political leadership before the west set in, everything collapsed when the west visit our prosperous land. Kenya economy is better than that of Korea in 1970 but today you will think the reverse is the case.

Africa was in no way well organised just before the arrival of the whites! Yoruba land itself was ravaged by war just before the whites arrived, as was much of sub Sahara Africa. In fact, Islam had civilised large parts of North Africa while West Africa remained impenetrable and in its pagan dark ages. It wasn't until Islam drifted down from the north and Christianity found a way in along the coast that the Yorubas, to mention one tribe amongst the many, stopped enslaving one another and sacrificing humans to their gods! War, plunder and slavery was rife in Yorubaland just before the arrival of westerners and its social fabric was disintegrating. Read the Samuel Johnson's, History of the Yorubas for more info.

Do note that about 1500 years before then, the western world had developed democracy, a superior mode of governance than the tyranny of the despotic kings most African villages had!

vaxx:
we can only achieved progressed until we go back to our cultural values system. Europe understand it better. read this book online ... how Europe underdeveloped Africa
Nigeria spiritual system is politicized , what we practised here is a borrowed ideology.... i repeat no nation can developed without annexing its cultural value.. WE are still under colony but is called neocolonialism

Yes, Europe underdeveloped Africa, but that is on the assumption that they should, could, or must have developed Africa! Lets not delude ourselves, the Europeans came to plunder Africa to develop their own nations. They didn't give a flying poo about us! They could only do this however, because we were not sufficiently developed to resist them when they arrived.

Our past ways could not sustain us and that is why we abandoned them. Superior powers only overcome inferior nations. Ancient Egypt is a typical example. It was so rich and (politically and scientifically) advanced that it was able to build the most advanced structures of its day, the pyramids. Yet, the politically and militarily advanced Romans came along and plundered it, as they did the once more politically advanced but militarily disorganised Greece. If Africa was as advanced as you claim, we would not have found the ideology of the Western World more appealing and abandoned our own.

Go read up about China, to see how another nation handled the superiority of the western world. China thought it was the greatest nation in the world until it was defeated by the more advanced Western World. It's current economic revival is because of its selective import of western ideology. They don't care where the ideology comes from as long as it proves effective, and today send millions out to learn the Western ways. Amazingly, however, they seem smart enough to limit Christian influence.

Nigeria is developing, albeit slowly. When I arrived on here some years ago, I could not have imagined that there would be this many people unshackled to the gods and no one dare touch their anointeds. Now however, more Nigerians are killing their gods and realising that the spirit is within them and if any one need be anointed, it is they themselves. Verily verily I say unto thee, to borrow a phrase, the day will soon come when we Nigerians will indeed know that we ourselves are the gods. Then would we too develop and be a new 'Jerusalem'.

Until then, the struggle continues, I guess.

vaxx:
The decision of communism government to indoctrinate the nation with Atheism ideology contribute majorly to the backwardness of the country...this is spiritual, i can not proof it, but that is my intelligent guess.....

First, buda does not believe stuff made up in her own head, so why would she believe stuff you make up in yours? Please, when you read, "buda is an atheist", do note that it means she does not do belief of almost any sort.

Secondly, I do see sense in what you've written, but I do not accept that your view on the issue is correct. The facts just don't seem to support you. There is enough history about East Germany so one does not need to resort to guessing or making it up.

Their backwardness, as it was - full employment for instance, and housing - was due to economic sanctions the west placed on communist nations and the subsequent lack of inflow of funds for development. USSR and Cuba suffered the same isolation, and North Korea are suffering it too. Iran only just had embargoes lifted, and Trump is threatening to impose similar sanctions on Palestine if they don't bow to the desires of Israel! Oddly enough, there are no sanctions placed on Nigeria, just that investors get better returns investing their funds in better developing nations as opposed to stagnant Nigeria. Some will claim that stagnation is because of our inability to evolve, which is due to our current (I would say, non-progressive) ideology!) we, infect, are placing sanctions on ourselves!

Incidentally, the former East Germans are pining for the better days of demarcation as their lot has deteriorated since unification. (cf Ostalgie)

vaxx:
the strongest political party in Germany (christian democratic union) has an ideology of establishing of what she term as Christian democracy which might not go down well with the people of the east...is this not a division?

She actually was letting Muslim refugees in, so I do not see how that amounts to "establishing of what she term as Christian democracy", unless she's so desperate that belief in any gods would do.

At the elections in September 2017, Christian democratic political alliance of two political parties in Germany, the Christian Democratic Union of Germany (CDU) and Christian Social Union in Bavaria (CSU) actually lost 65 seats, an 8.6% point swing, because they were perceived to be Islamizing the nation. The result is Merkel losing seats in the Bundestag and being unable to form a government, and the rise of fascism all over Europe. Even Teresa May had to pay a billion pounds to just about the most fundamentalist party in UK in order to have a majority in the House which she lost at the elections last year.

All Western nations are suffering from a declining population as the old die off and the young have fewer babies than their parents had. This has resulted in a reduction in tax revenue as workers have declined. They have therefore resorted to taking people from wherever they can get them to fill the gap in their purses (though it does seem they don't want Africans if they can help it). The stumbling block however is that the indigenous people don't like the effects of immigration since it lowers their wage packet as immigrants accept lower pay and working conditions, and bring in ideology that is foreign to them.

The fact is that religion (or ideology, in a broader sense) can stimulate progress and development. Examples are Europe in the first century and Nigeria in the 15th Century at the arrival of Christianity. It can also however stifle progress and development (cf. Europe's dark ages 400-800AD, and Nigeria, one might say since about the 1800s).

Incidentally, it was the arrival of another religion (Islam, to be specific), that helped pull Europe out of its dark ages!

You can read about the decrease in Christians and the closure of churches, and the increase in mosques and Muslims in Germany below.

"Between 1990 and 2010 we closed 340 churches, and of those 46 were demolished," says Thomas Begrich, head of finances for the Evangelical Church of Germany

Christianity Dying Out in Germany

Islamic Group Plans to Double Number of Mosques in Germany

The Islamization of Germany in 2016 - Gatestone Institute

Muslim population in England and Wales nearly doubles in 10 years

Muslim population of the UK could triple to 13m following 'record' influx

vaxx:
religious has never been the cause of war. it is either political or economic struggle. i accept religious reason are used for non religious purpose. but religious in its actual sense do no spark war. gun do no kill people. it is people that kill people.

Why are you unwillingly to see that the backwardness of East Germany too had nothing to do with religion but with political and economic struggle?

People have indeed hidden behind ideology (judaism, Christianity, Islam, Paganism Nazism, Communism, atheism etc) to commit atrocities against their fellow human beings, but that is not to say some god done it unless one is dishonest or actual lacks historical knowledge.

Please don't insult my intelligence by claiming I would not understand a thing. Not agreeing with you does not mean I do not understand.

There is nothing to indicate that "former East Germany was not especially prosperous compared to the West and some of the most prosperous parts of pre-WWII eastern Germany". Germany, as a whole, was not doing so well after the punitive sanctions imposed on it by the western alliance after the first world war. You have heard of wheelbarrows full of Deutschmarks used to buy a singlie loaf of bread?

East Germany, after the second world war, was ruled by despots who used Federal Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist system to oppress the people. Religion was still practised by some people though it was suppressed and dwindled over time. The leaders imposed atheism as a religion to suit their needs but that is not what ruined East Germany. The closing up of their society to migration and emigration did. And people are leaving there now for the same lack of opportunity people leave Nigeria, and Africa on the whole. If it weren't for the fact that condoms and contraceptives are so dear, We too would have shrinking populations, I bet.

vaxx:
mr budaatum,you can not explain spiritual realms using physical realms....both of them have their boundary... anyway i am gonna explain the physical realms to you since that is what you believe. even Before WWII, much of the former East Germany was not especially prosperous compared to the West and some of the most prosperous parts of pre-WWII eastern Germany were carved off into Poland or some part of Russia and ethnically cleansed of their German inhabitants.

East GERMANY population is seriously shrinking and Germany government is very much aware, that is why angel(PM)is seriously supporting refugee migration so that the new population can be dispersed to every part of Germany especially that of east Germany where the population is gradually getting into extinction , guess what ? in the next 25 years ,the world population will add about 20 billion people largely from third world country where religious is stable or increasing.... i will post a link to back it up if you want, Germany population need replacement since they are at a very low level. East Germany is feeling the heat more than the west.... Ask yourself why?

Bennycollins:
Can you give us the authentic answer to th question "how did the world begin"? Which is not man made.

What makes you think the world began? Who's to say it hasn't always existed?

benjamin007:
I don't know am just following the story I grow up to meet

I respect your honesty.

lady2sexy:
lol, at the bolded, you are been very sarcastic

tell me more about Germany please

To claim East Germany was not as advanced as West Germany because it was atheistic is rather disingenuous and I hope readers would do some research instead of accepting the bias that suits them.

East Germany's government was atheistic. There is nothing to say the people themselves were not religious however, though church attendance fell between the split of East and West and unification of the two.

During separation, East German had full employment and housing. However, its economic development was curtailed due to it being behind the Iron Bloc, thereby reducing the nations that did business with it. Cuba is in a similar position, with embargoes on trading with it meaning it can import to and export from a very few countries. Obama lifted the ban on Americans trading and travelling there, and Trump reimposed it.

East Germany in fact, suffered from the same parochiality that is holding Nigeria back. We share with the former East Germany being held back by rulers who impose ideology on its people by not informing them properly. East Germany had SocioLeninist-anti-capitalist ideology, while Nigeria has ChristoIslam holding it back, and the tide of western ideology that helped pulled down the Berlin Wall would also be what pulls down the wall that blinds Nigerians.

frank317:
Exactly what they did to felixomore until the turned to the clown of the house

If they didn't do so much harm by misleading folks like op for instance, I wouldn't mind. They do it on purpose too, resorting to all sorts of lies and misinformation thinking its about point scoring. Good thing though is they can't keep the knowledge out there all to themselves anymore. Any one can go check for themselves.

lady2sexy:
its seems there are more atheist in this forum and they're all very subjective in their response. the only concrete fact I have gotten from this board is the fact that most white folks are relatively comfortable hence they are less religious. However, e also have blacks that are very comfortable and very religious at the same time. Am surprised to see many Nigeria atheist here while in real life I have never met one.

As in the gods have heard their prayers so they killed them off because they became useless? Yep. That sounds just about right.

Perhaps give a theist reason why the western world don't seem to be as religious as black folks instead of accusing those who bothered of subjectivity.

The following, by the way, was the response best deserved!

oyb:
its very simple, you are there to work. that is what you are being paid for.
your prayer sessions are not impacting on the company bottom line
it is also very irresponsible [though typical of evangelical christians]
if muslims in your office chose to hold a daily morning prayer would you not be offended?
or if some traditionalists did so?
or the indian hindus?

if you are so bothered you can always find a nigerian company that supports that sort of thing. i can think of two off the cuff -
oceanic bank and intercontinental bank. i hear they are very very friendly towards morning devotion. also great places to work and industry leaders.

with your moniker i also wonder just how religious you are anyway - your vanity at the very least must be off the hook

The westerner has acquired the power and knowledge of the gods so gets off their ass to create heaven on earth while we black folks plead that the gods come down from heaven and live in the shithole with is! I say with shame!

Saverin:
You have a poor knowledge of history.

We've been trying to teach him. But we've not been successful. He has friends who delight in his ignorance.

Why Are Most White Folks Irreligious

They never used to be irreligious. They were in fact no different to we non-whites, up to about the 17 Century, when the likes of Copernicus, Gallileo and Giordano Bruno stuck two fingers up to the religious establishment, but that wasn't the first time they had abandoned their gods.

Do you know that the word 'atheist' was coined to describe people who did not accept or participate in the state religion? Socrates, who derided and questioned the beliefs of his time, would have been an atheist under that definition. He was 'crucified' for that reason, as was Christ for the same reason, as far as the orthodox Jews were concerned. But I digress, my point is the Greeks abandoned the gods of Homer when a superior god called Yahweh came along.

When I was a child, I thought like a child and believed like a child, is how one could put it. Humans tend to just accept what they are told to believe and they defend it with their life if need be. But as time goes by, new generations appear who begin to question those old beliefs by pointing out how ridiculous they are. You could just imagine how ridiculous it sounds to you if I claimed Obatala was sent by Olodumare with corn and a cock with which human beings were created and scattered all over the earth, or that the Greek myths are true and that the things narrated in them are actually happened, or that twins are demonic and we therefore must bash their heads in.

In 10th century England, going to church and paying tithes to the Catholic Church was mandatory, as was praying for the dead. It was in fact the duty of the living to pray, or pay the church to pray, for their dead or they, and the dead, would rot in hell. Praying for the dead became so lucrative that it took 600 years for Martin Luther, the Great Grandaddy of Daddy Freeze, to free people from the blight of Indulgences, which is our tithes of today. He also made the Bible accessible to the masses. Prior to that, the Bible had been kept in a language the masses could not read or understand just so they could be enslaved by those who claimed they were able to read it because they were directly descended from Saint Paul with a direct line to God. Today's version is when Muslims claim the Koran is not the Koran if it is not in Arabic, or when Christians claim the bible cannot be understood by the carnal unspiritual mind. The phrase, 'touch not my anointed', should spring to mind, no one dared question those ancient priests either until just about the 16 Century. Any one who did was crucified.

The thing is, once people read the religious texts themselves, it became harder for the wool to be pulled over their eyes, and once that Pandora''s box opens, the genii is out and can't be put in no more.
I have always said that the best way to stop people believing in gods is to give them the relevant god book. The particular first reader might accept it fell from heaven, their child too might accept what their parents believed, but by the third and fourth generation, the eye will open, and they too will create their own gods.

That, is what has happened in the western world. They have read the books of the old gods, found them to be wanting, and they have created new gods of science with a new religion based on the scientific method. Basically, the Scientific Revolution happened.

P.s. I am going to refer to this as one hell of a shoddy piece on this particular topic. I may write a better version in the future sometime. It deserves it.

tarboshi:
There are so many things we can learn from the white, from technology to engineering, to science. But when it comes to spirituality, I think they are the ones to learn from us.

So they too can make a spiritual phone or computer to post on nl? So they too can light up their homes with spiritual electricity, or perhaps see in the dark by spiritual means? So they can drive around in spiritual cars perhaps, or close down their hospitals and send the sick to spiritual TBJoshua for healing?

Go read some history. They created spiritual but abandoned it when a better god, that of science and technology, came along.

bingbagbo:
Who is man to question the Ancient of Days

Know ye not that they are gods?

hopefulLandlord:
that's what I tell Christians when they threaten me with their imaginary hellfire

The thought of spending eternity with the believers who don't make hell scares me more than the fire itself. One would have to listen to them constantly wailing "God please forgive me, I did not sin on purpose"! E
That's enough to drive one mad!

More imaginary heat please, in the imaginary hell!

Human ancestors left Africa far earlier than previously thought, discovery of prehistoric jawbone and tools suggest

Oldest known human fossil outside Africa discovered in Israel

ScienceWatch:
Thanks alot ! I will go now and continue to spread the word on many other religious sites.

Bye. I'm sure they'd appreciate you much more than I ever can. Mind the door on the way out, and please don't rush back.

solite3:
The solution to the problem is JESUS CHRIST

In a very funny way, this is indeed the truth. However the new generation will have to give "JESUS CHRIST" their own meaning for it to work. And that would require that they give up all that old religion. It's just no good for you!

ScienceWatch:
Well done BudaAtum. The report button was designed to help Atheists in their frightening mission to destroy Christianity.

Christians never use this button, they know Atheists need it more.

I have reported you again for derailing this thread.

PastorAIO:
Even my own anecdotal experience tells me that this is rubbish. When a new born baby comes back home from hospital, straight away you can tell it's unique personality. Some babies are quieter. Some make more noise and babble alot, others cry more, some laugh alot etc etc etc

The personality and the mind has begun to be establish from before birth. But in case you don't believe me you can look at clinical evidence by doctors and scientists.




https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-favorite-child/201010/personality-begins-birth

Many of the things that a pregnant mother feels, the baby also feels too. They share many hormones etc. If the mother does drugs the mental development of the child might be impaired. If the mother is surrounded by music which the baby can hear in the womb, the baby is more likely to be born with an ear for music.

Are these examples not due to the environment, and socialisation? It is indeed known that pregnant woman who listens to music or takes coke is more likely to have a child who likes music, or adopts a coke dependency. Is this not learned behaviour, albeit pre-birth? It's not like the baby has any consciousness of it though.

PastorAIO:
Compare the Red and the Purple, and tell me, are theses two statements not contradictory. It is either that babies are born with predispositions or they are not. What is it?

You don't need a posteriori knowledge to exercise your moral instinct
In fact the sheer fact that it is an instinct means that there isn't really a thought process behind it at it's most basic level.




yes, babies are aware of their environment from within the womb. This is aptly demonstrated in the article I quoted above.

Hello old timer. Those two statements are indeed contradictory. He did however qualify with the 'If', which sort of implies that he isn't asserting it as a given fact (which I doubt it is).

Personally I don't think babies have any instinct apart from to breath, to eat and to poo.

I can't believe I am defending vaxx. There must be something in the water!

I have reported you for derailing this thread.

ScienceWatch:
YOU DONT SCARE ME ONE LITTLE BIT frank317 !!!

Stay with No-god !! It suits your character.

REMEMBER TO PRESS YOUR FAVORITE REPORT BUTTON, if you cant get at me.

vaxx:
you do not answer my question? the bone of discussion is if baby are really born with moral instinct?.. am not asking you how moral instinct manifest....

Baby are born blank, meaning without knowledge or experience.... so how can a baby manifest an instinct he or she lack knowledge about? if you agree that baby can put good and evil on a scale of preferences, then you are suggesting that baby can rationalize. which will also mean they are aware of their physical environment.

this is not true. we are like animals, we are born naturally with survival and self-interest instinct only. that is why baby are naturally sell-fish but as we survive via the evolutionary process, our greater capacity for rational thought developed and It is by way of rational thought that we learn the concept of morality base on the society we find ourselves.....the same morality here birth culture and norms... what we accept objectively as way of life becomes our value. in Rome, it is believed that the left hand is the right place to put on engagement ring because it is close to the heart while in Germany, engagement rings are place on right hand.... so by what dalaman say morality is derived from the society in which individual find themselves . developmental psychology says that our moral occur overtime, meaning we have to learn it and not born with it...

if there is anything baby are born with, i will argue and say it is xenophobic... fear of out groups as out group are generally competitors for scarce resources..

read this book, the secret lives of the brain by David Eagleman

Read 3 times. Tried hard to disagree. Failed miserably. Well done!