₦airaland Forum

KnownUnknown:
Purposefully ignoring the question.
I obviously asked what is the truth about Jesus.
Regardless if it’s the Bible or just Jesus, you still didn’t answer the simple question.

I did ignore your "truth about Jesus" question since I never claimed any such thing. And I posted from wiki to debunk your narrow definition of truth you were trying to drive me down.

Now, for a simple truth in the Bible.

It is true that if adult you do not work (stealing and begging and inheriting included), you will starve.

Now see it written in the Bible and let me know if it is true or not.

KnownUnknown:
Budaatum, what is the “truth” about Jesus Christ in the Bible was the question.

That was not the question, Known. Least it's not one I was engaging with as its kind of like asking "what is the truth about Okonkwo in things Fall Apart".

Please see the question below, but if the above has become your question, buda rests.

KnownUnknown:
What truth is read in the Bible?

MindHacker9009:
@budaatum

People were told that a certain man could disappear in the 80s and they all believed until he was caught and he was not able to disappear.
So your response below is not relevant.

Just today many people were told they would earn millions if they first paid a little, so what is your point if not that some people are gullible while some love investing? Don't they have the freedom to believe what they want?

KnownUnknown:
What truth is read in the Bible?
The word “truth” ceases to have any discernible meaning when it comes to religious beliefs.

In normal usage truth is that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

What is in accordance with reality about mythology of the jews that y’all place on a pedestal?

What truth is read about the Jew with the Graeco Roman name who was the “Christ”?


Abraham Lincoln’s existence does not validate the movie Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

Just like the existence of a Yeshua in the 1st century does not mean he was a “Christ” and all that it entails.

See what you've listed as the things in the Bible in which you seek for truth, KnownUnknown. Can you consider that others might see different things to what you see for starts, or do you think everyone sees equally?

What if I tell you there is more than that in the Bible that could be considered to be true. And no, I do not mean your narrow definition of truth but at least this much of it.

MindHacker9009:
E.g: If we are told.....

Please, but "if we" who? Were you not told not to put your hands in the fire, MindHacker9009? Did you put your hand in the fire or not? I did, so I can't possibly be "if we", to start with.

MindHacker9009:
It is pure ignorance for those who believe .....

It is my own opinion that the reason people believe is because they lack the information that would constitute knowledge to them.

Consider:

The reason to believe rain is falling on my head is simply due to my ignorance of what may be falling on my head. By looking up to the sky I will reduce my ignorance and know if it is rain that is falling or if someone is pissing on my head.

I may believe I have a million pounds in my pocket but I would need to take it out of my pocket and count it so I may know it is a million pounds before I go to buy a Ferrari with it unless I am not complete in the head.

A possibly fictional person is written to have said, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened".

As you may see, "everyone" is not "we", as some will ask and knock and seek in the the sky and in my pocket so one may know instead of ignorantly creating or allowing crap to be created in one's own head and believing it.

KnownUnknown:
Or he didn’t exist at all because mythology and allegory do not relate fact and at best embellished tales if not outright lies.

Shango could be after all the most famous Yoruba king but not exist [b]as far as an individua[/b]l in Shanghai is concerned. Regardless, he couldn’t send thunderbolts to harm his enemies because that is an obvious incredible and improbable claim.

As you can see, it's up to the individual what they choose to believe. And in honour of Pride, I will add, so long as they don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses or harm anyone.

For Shango, the consensus seems to be that he was a real person who existed at some point though everyone is free to believe what they may, but as for "obvious incredible and improbable claim", as I said,

budaatum:
KnownUnknown, MindHacker9009, do note that there is a difference between the existence of a Jesus Christ, and the truth of what is read about a Jesus Christ in the Bible.

While one may argue that no one literally walks on water or feeds thousands with a couple of loaves of bread and fish or raise the dead etc, that does not mean the person stories have been fabricated about did not exist.

I can fabricate lies about the billions of roubles I have in my pocket and how I fly to the moon for breakfast every morning but that does not make my existence a lie.

Oh. And nice try trying to drag me into the irrelevant arguement about the inconsequential existence of Jesus Christ, and Sango!

budaatum:
One thing I have learnt is, to increase my own level of intelligence I must increase the level of intelligence around me by letting my light shine amongst my fellow human beings so my fellow human beings shine their lights on me.

By doing so are we all more enlightened and our level of intelligence increases.

I changed the "more" to the italics as it better expresses my learning.

MindHacker9009:
Unlike @OkCornel and co that keeps shining their ignorance on the this public forum

We all shine our ignorance on this forum.

Take the subject at hand. People who have done notable extensive research, evidenced by the fact that they wrote books with footnotes and references, have not come to a conclusion about the existence or not of a Jesus Christ, but we who's research is limited to reading what they wrote want to use their research to claim he did or did not exist.

Does that not show how much we shine our ignorance, and prejudice, and belief?

orisa37:
"JESUS CHRIST" IS AN IDEA, NOT AN IDOL, OF THE SPIRIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND WAYS TO SUPREME SALVATION.
THE IDEA REPRESENTS ABSOLUTE OBEDIENCE, ANOINTED SAVING CHARACTERS, THE GRACE, THE WAYS, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, TO BE GODLIKE.
"GOD" TOO IS ENGLISH, GRAND ORDER DIVINE. AN IDEA REPRESENTING OMNI "GI-ANT" REPLICA OF ALL VICES AND VIRTUES, INSTRUCTOR AND WISDOM, DIRECTOR AND KNOWLEDGE, DISCERNMENT AND UNDERSTANDING, RICHES AND WEALTH, POWER AND MIGHT, HONOUR AND GLORY, MAJESTY AND WORSHIP, SECURITY, SAFETY AND SUCCESS.
THE WORD TOO IS ENGLISH REPRESENTING IDEAS CONCEIVED, EXPRESSED OR SPOKEN LIKE TRIBES, ETHNICS, ETHICS, ZONES, COUNTRIES, ROME, ENGLAND, NIGERIA, PUTIN, RUSSIA ETCETERA ETCETERA. PLANNING BUDGETARY CONTROL, WHATEVER YOU CALL THEM IN DIFFERENT AREAS ARE WORDS THAT WERE WITH GOD IN HIS FEELING, THINKING AND REASONING IN THE BEGINNING AND ARE STILL GOD TODAY AND FOREVER.

HAPPY IMAGINATIONS.

ORISAORUNTO SPEAKS

FROM ORUNTO27.

I don't listen to you much for some odd reason, probably because you shout in caps, but this is worth hearing.

Would you accept that Gods are ideas too?

OkCornel:
True words.

If they choose to be enlightened though.

It's not they who must choose to be enlightened but me who should enlighten myself, or Christ, whether he ever lived or not, is crucified by my very ignorant self.

Have to remind you all of Biden's Inflation.

https://wolfstreet.com/2022/07/01/ecb-gets-whacked-by-runaway-inflation-and-fears-of-fragmentation-after-years-of-negative-interest-rate-absurdities-and-reckless-qe/

OkCornel:
Their level of intelligence is in single digits, I don’t expect them to comprehend the basic logic you explained here.

My argument the whole time has always been on EXISTENCE.

Theirs is just all over the place.

One thing I have learnt is, to increase my own level of intelligence I must increase the level of intelligence around me by letting my light shine amongst my fellow human beings so my fellow human beings shine their lights more.

By doing so are we all more enlightened and our level of intelligence increases.

OkCornel:
For the umpteenth time, that is not a white man.

Understand the difference between an European and an Israeli. From the hair texture, skin tone etc.

And by the way, you can find Colton Burpo, Akiane Kramarik and other witnesses who corroborate same…then argue with them.

This is a different topic altogether which has been discussed on multiple threads on nairaland. You arrived very late to this party.

Kindly direct with a link so this convo is not further derailed.

MindHacker9009:
@budaatum

What is the oldest written history?

The below might better fit your authenticity test for history since it "provides information on the exchange of goods such as grains and fabric" likely by people who were exchanging them at the time, though I would add, more research required.

A small collection of bone and ivory tags, pottery vessels, and clay seal impressions were uncovered at the Umm el Qu’ab necropolis in Abydos, Egypt. The artifacts contain what are believed to be the earliest known Egyptian writing. The hieroglyphs date to between 3400 – 3200 BCE and are the oldest recorded history discovered so far in the world.
https://www.oldest.org/culture/recorded-history/

MindHacker9009:
@budaatum

What is the oldest written history?

The Epic of Gilgamesh started out as a series of Sumerian poems and tales dating back to 2100 B.C., but the most complete version was written around the 12th century B.C. by the Babylonians.
https://www.history.com/news/what-is-the-oldest-known-piece-of-literature

It's referred to as literature in what you posted, the "copying down essays, hymns, poetry and myths" that "started out as a series of Sumerian poems", and note how you [sneakily] changed that to history to increase its authenticity.

If I do the same with the writings of Chinua Achebe, Okonkwo will be a historical figure in Things Fall Apart, which is what I think is what you are claiming was how Jesus was created. No?

The Epic of Gilgamesh is not history, I suggest.

KnownUnknown, MindHacker9009, do note that there is a difference between the existence of a Jesus Christ, and the truth of what is read about a Jesus Christ in the Bible.

While one may argue that no one literally walks on water or feeds thousands with a couple of loaves of bread and fish or raise the dead etc, that does not mean the person stories have been fabricated about did not exist.

I can fabricate lies about the billions of roubles I have in my pocket and how I fly to the moon for breakfast every morning but that does not make my existence a lie.

KnownUnknown:
Not to support the asinine OP that he was created by the Romans, but what if he wasn’t known inside or outside his stomping grounds because he didn’t exist at all.

Not to claim he existed or not, but "he didn’t exist at all" is one possible reason he may not have been known outside his stomping grounds. How about "he did exist but I wasn't interested enough", or "his stomping ground was not my stomping ground" or "I was too ignorant or busy to know about him then and I now claim he never existed at all"? I could after all be the most popular and famous individual in the Orolu Kingdom of Ifon Osun but not exist as far as an individual in Oshogbo or Kano was concerned.

Basically, can I not be known and unknown at the same time?

MindHacker9009:
@budaatum

If you can watch hours of youtube videos you will see that records were kept as far back as 334BC of Alexander the great King of Macedonia.

Sorry Mindhacker, but if I "watch hours of youtube videos" I will be shown that records were kept but that does not make it true, and you might as well have said if I read the Bible for hours I'd be shown Gods exist or the earth is flat or that rats talk.

Records were not recorded and kept as rigourously as you seem to think, and what was recorded did not survive intact from 334BC is what proper scholar investigations shows. There were no journalists posting news reports for instance, and even today with them, we would argue about the authenticity of their kept records. And that's apart from the fact that Jesus would have been a rather insignificant individual prior to his supposed crucifixion which is what may have made him popular outside the tiny region he was written to have peddled his wares.

budaatum:
When I was like really young, these mates of mine who grew up in Obanikoro Village told me rats talk. Well, even at barely 7, I was atheistic in nature, so I argued that rats don't talk. Now there were like 5 of them, so they ganged up on me calling me all sorts of names and that I know nothing, "rats talk jo!".

One day, about two years later, we were in the home of one of them and NTA was showing Tom and Jerry. "There," they said, pointing to the telly. "I thought you said rats don't talk?"

Turns out oyinbo rats do talk, silly me!

MindHacker9009:
Rephrased: references to documents and adult writers who wrote about events before the independence of Nigeria, during the same periods the events took place

The most important question now were all all the writings of Jewish historians during the time of Jesus it will be very biased to say there were no Jewish historians during the time of Jesus as the Book of Moses was written sometime in the 15th century B.C.

I don't think Jesus or Christianity could possibly have been significant enough for much to have been written about him or it during his time, and if anything was written it likely would not have survived. He was not exactly known outside his stomping ground until he was allegedly killed.

I think it would be like Moses of whom nothing at all was written about until many century's later, and not by or from eyewitness accounts or anything of the sort but from tales and stories passed down from mouth to mouth.

guysbewise:
Even now if a person born after Nigerian independence is to write about the events before Nigerian independence the person's account cannot be authentic unless the person makes authentic references to documents and adult writers who wrote about events before the independence of Nigeria.

Sounds like, unless one provides authentic evidence for one's claims one's claims are not authentic.

Some say the same about Joseph Atwill, but I guess we can say they are biased.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/no-the-romans-did-not-invent-jesus

XerXers:
Their business, how is Obi responsible for that? Since they they know that mat is for dual purpose and mats with human face are not for prayers it's their responsibility to use it for whatever it's fit. I don't see how that one concern Peter Obi

Abeg, e concern Peter Obi. The feedback he's getting is showing him what is more important to us if na sleep or prayer or obedience to what is better for us!

https://www.nairaland.com/7206016/peter-obi-addresses-prayer-mat

ebufa:
Tinubu has not yet entered also rock yet,..........una don start tinwa tinwa politics already! no worry una 8 years go soon waka pass...............!

Haven't heard that for a while. It's what stops us growing as we become tiẹ́ tiẹ́, selfishly better pass the neighbour, though we live in the same face me face you and get bitten by the same mosquitoes and poo in the same shalanga.

We shall learn to ti gbogbo wa, someday, I hope, specially now you pointed it out.

TONY042:
Peace is what we keep praying for.

Instead of getting off our lazy asses and making peace amongst ourselves.

God please open our eyes so we can see that peace does not fall like manna but must be cultivated and nurtured so it grows.

sorextee:
This is Sheik Murtala Chukwuemeka, the first Igbo man in the world that translated the Holy Qur'an into Igbo language. He has indeed done something that would be remembered until the end of times.

May Allah reward him abundantly for this great milestone.

Ps: I saw it online and decided to share. I'm not a Muslim by the way, but works like this should be commended.

Works like this are commended and so are you for posting it.

Thanks. And no, I'm not a Muslim either .

As I said, Ben, if it is a charade or not.

benalvino3:
I didn't ask you to swap one hearsay for another.
1: she was not there.
2: they have interviewed her before
3: they have interviewed the people that was there.
4: her details were not right.
5: the note she claimed to have written was already talked about to have been written by another person.
6: CNN, NBC, ABC etc. Are all reporting the witness r willing to testify. The J6 committee sepoena someone. You will think they should be corroborating the lie they allowed by sepoena the people who are willing to testify under oath it never happen.

Courtesy of CNN:

“The Secret Service…will make the agents involved available to testify under oath, the official said, and that the agents are prepared to say under oath that the incident Hutchinson described did not occur.


Secret Service: Jan. 6 panel didn’t reach out before Hutchinson’s explosive Trump testimony
The agency says it got no outreach for 10 days before the committee aired testimony about Donald Trump’s behavior in the presidential vehicle Jan. 6.

If you like say one is hearsay and the other is hearsay, it is for the panel to call the people who was there so we hear directly from them. Put them under oath.

wirinet:
Societies don't crumble over night, it some times takes decades or even centuries. If Trump had succeeded in its coup attempt. Then all the checks and balances that had help America remain great for over 150 years would have started crumbling one by one.

Trump did not fail completely, he has radically changed the Supreme Court to the radical right for the next 20 odd years.

"If", wirinet, but for the checks and balances that actually stopped him. Or do you not see those checks and balances are what made Pence do what he had no choice but to do? What makes America as great as it is is its history of developing checks and balances that make its structure stand firm.

As for trump failing, you sure give that fool far too much credit in thinking what he seemingly did while in office was his doings that he could fail at. His ego was simply a tool in the hand of those more powerful than him, and I am personally amused that they succeeded because it will and has awakened those who slumber where democracy is concerned.

AmazonTopaz:
It is still a 6-3 court you expressed optimism last year that these justices won't be dumb enough to overturn Roe they did just that.

If democratic leaders don't meet the urgency rally their base and fight back yes the American experiment will crumble. Why on earth is Clarence Thomas still on the bench?

What the Supreme Court did was ingenious. Rather than a small group of unelected individuals like them deciding the ever arising contentious issue of abortions for every American, they have said, "You the People, decide if you want abortions or not", and I just wish I was smart enough to have seen it coming. Now, if people want abortions they just vote candidates who will give it them, and if they don't want abortions they can vote for those who will take it away. How better is there to do democracy than "my body my choice", and "my state", as in one where I have a majority, and "abortions or not"? Don't you see how they have given the people the power to now go and choose? Of course many states will be switching from pro to abort to pro to abort for the next 100 years or so, but any one who wants an abortion can still get on the bus and go wherever they can legally get one, and the constant switching will contribute to economic activity.

As for Clarence Thomas, are you aware that no Supreme Court Judge has been successfully impeached and only one has resigned on the threat of impeachment? I don't think Thomas has the shame to resign, so the wheels on this bus will slowly chug along I'm afraid, since he seems to have friends in high places, but he will not get away from being charged and tried in the court of history, thankfully.

Sorry, I don't see crumble here. What I see is democracy in action, and that does include all the shenanigans involved, but if you want to show me American crumbling, lets talk about their credit card.

In 1804, the U.S. House of Representatives voted to impeach Associate Justice Samuel Chase. A signer of the Declaration of Independence, Chase was appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court by President George Washington in 1796. A Federalist, Chase irked Thomas Jefferson and his Republican allies in Congress, and was impeached on politically motivated charges of acting in a partisan manner during several trials. However, in 1805 Chase was acquitted by the Senate. He served on the court until his death in 1811.

In 1969, Abe Fortas became the first—and, to date, only—Supreme Court justice to resign under the threat of impeachment. Named to the court by President Lyndon Johnson in 1965, Fortas was forced to step down due to financial improprieties that involved him agreeing to act as a paid consultant to the family foundation of a man under investigation for securities fraud.
https://www.history.com/news/has-a-u-s-supreme-court-justice-ever-been-impeached

AmazonTopaz:
Wirinet, Budaatum, Sanpipita, Timiofak, obrigado,jimetagambo America is crumbling before our very eyes.

America is not crumbling before my eyes just because of one drumpthgp or Clarence. Perhaps that's because I'm seeing elsewhere though.

The wheels of democracy run slowly, so one must learn to be patient.

benalvino3:
you have to do your homework. I don't think you understand what is going on.

I don't see a reason why you will be here defending hearsay when the people who were actually in the car have given testimony multiple times. why didn't we hear it from the people involved instead of someone that is not there? Who also lied she wrote a note that someone else wrote. She is under Oath and believes all women

I am not defending her ben, nor do I believe her since I tend not to believe.

Provide me with "the people who was driving the president said it never happened" so I can debunk her lies with the truth of the eyewitnesses who were actually there instead of asking me to swap one hearsay for another.

benalvino3:
do your homework, all the liberal news media from CNN to NBC are reporting on this. I posted a video here of jake tapper where it was established the j6 commission don't av evidence for that other than hearsay

This is what you say when you know your evidence is shaky and won't pass muster ben. Are you suggesting I use hearsay to debunk hearsay?

Where did "the people who was driving the president said it never happened"?

benalvino3:
the people who was driving the president said it never happened.

Where is it please? I need the evidence so I can sue or at least ridicule the non-magas!