₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=381941.msg5328595#msg5328595 date=1263653343]@Ikomi,
If you know the history of the revolution, you will understand that the brains behind that revolution allegedly made a pact with the devil to help them overcome the French. If such a pact was indeed real, is it wrong for anyone to then wonder aloud why Haiti has always been visited by one calamity or the other?[/quote]let me get this right so we should spend time asking why Haitians had the temerity to free themselves from one of the most barbaric and heinous systems in human history.

As to God forgiving, that is true. But forgiveness and breaking of curses comes from understanding that it exists and appraoching God to help deal with it. I believe Pat called attention to this fact so Haitians can at least contemplate this issue and try to deal with it.

God give me strength - breaking of curses and forgiveness, so the Haitians should have remained in bondage in order not to offend their slavemasters - jeeez - this is embarrassing - are you a black man?

Lastly, Pat spoke from a spiritual perspective, which means the words does not necessarily lend itself to human understanding and carnal interpretation. What he said may be true and it may be not. I don't know one way or the other.

it gets worse - an apologist for KKK honorary member Pat Robertson - can you explain what is "spiritual" about the puerile racist statements made by Robertson - would you be supporting Robertson's statement if he had said that the Jewish Holocaust was divine retribution for past wrongs committed by Jews?
You need help!!!

anyway here is Haiti's US ambassador's response to that KKK grand wizard Robertson

http://www.prisonplanet.com/haitian-ambassador-has-a-message-for-pat-robertson.html

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=382665.msg5329814#msg5329814 date=1263664926]@cap28,

What is wrong with Bush? I am more concerned about getting Bill Clinton involved in the relief effort than I am of Bush. Is it not this same Clinton who said Obama's (a black man) place is to serve White people like him coffee? Why ask such a person to provide relief to mainly Black people?[/quote]Bush and  Clinton are on the same side and are both serving the same master - the Rockefellers -  the real rulers of america and anyway why are you suprised about Clinton's outburst, his views are the views of the majority of white people towards blacks so why would Clinton be any different?

the question you should be asking is why are two people who are responsible for bringing about the economic demise of this country now interested in coordinating a "relief effort".

you probably dont know this but Bush and his cronies masterminded a coup d etat in 2004 in which Aristide (a democratically elected former priest and man of the people) was kidnapped by US marines from the presidential palace and deported to  Congo

he then installed a puppet govt which opened up the country to "foreign investment" (rape and pillage) of Haiti's labour.

the aim was to outsource jobs (now possible under GATT) formerly carried out in the US to countries where labour is cheap in order to maximise profits for multinational businesses.

many if not most of these sweat shops are owned by friends and business associates of both Bush and Clinton - Aristide was standing in their way by introducing reforms which would have eaten into their profit margins so of course he had to go.

do not be taken in by these people's lies.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=382665.msg5329604#msg5329604 date=1263662719]And so what? Is George Bush not a human being?

People should concentrate on getting the aid to haitians rather than thoughtlessly bickering about who's in charge or not.[/quote]you are either too dumb or too ignorant to understand the implications of having someone like bush at the helm of this operation - or could it be amnesia that you are suffering from? have you forgotten what happened to thousands of blacks stranded in new orleans during Katrina?

As if things are not bad enough for Haitians following this catastrophe we now have the appointment of the anti christ George Bush Jnr to coordinate the Haiti relief operation by Obama -  here is an interesting article written by an american journalist brenda norrell :


DISASTER: Obama appoints George Bush for Haiti relief

Posted by Brenda Norrell - January 15, 2010 at 7:49 am

Obama's selection of George Bush for Haiti relief ties with Obama's Nobel Peace Prize as the most horrendous error. Profiteering from misery is what Bush does best.

By Brenda Norrell

President Obama selected war criminal and corporate thief George W. Bush to head up US relief efforts to Haiti, along with Bill Clinton.

No, this is not a joke or satire. It is not a Saturday Night Live spoof. It is a fact.

Now, the Clinton and Bush duo is pleading with Americans to donate to Haiti relief by way of them.

What percentage of donated money and goods will ever reach those in need if Bush and his circle of thieves are involved?

Remember Hurricane Katrina? Remember the people on rooftops, waving for rescue, day after day on the television news? Remember when day after day no one came to their aid? Remember Katrina. Remember who sent Blackwater assassins to New Orleans during Katrina relief? Remember the toxic FEMA trailer houses for the poor? Remember the good ole boys that said shooting blacks after Katrina was like "pheasant hunting in South Dakota" (as documented in film)?

This is George Bush's legacy during Katrina relief.

Remember the Bush/Cheney years, with torture in violation of the Geneva Conventions, with kidnappings and secret prisons and the corporate warmongering and genocide that caused the US to become one of the most hated nations in the world?

Why bring back Bush?

For anyone who doubted who Obama is, and what he is up to, the choice of Bush should make it clear.

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/brenda-norrell/2010/01/disaster-obama-appoints-george-bush-haiti-relief

@davidylan one thing i have gathered from reading some of your articles is your sketchy "knowledge" of world history - i think you need to broaden your horizons and try reading more extensively perhaps you could start by reading a book by CLR James called the Black Jacobins - an account of the Haitian revolution - maybe that might help you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Jacobins

I see that you have been completely brainwashed by a racist western education, your indoctrination into self hatred has also been exacerbated by the western media who has programmed you into beleiving that africans are an inferior race of people, i implore you to reeducate yourself before it is too late.

Here is an interesting article written by an american professor and social commentator Noam Chomsky:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ChomskyOdonian_Haiti.html

debosky:
Na wa oh. And they are eating mud cakes? Abeg make I start mud exporting business - it's more valuable than food.

typical behaviour of the average black man who does not have the interest of his fellow black man at heart, this is where whites differ - when the 2005 tsunami killed thousands of british holiday makers all whites rallied to help THEIR people they werent bothered about any other nationalities just their own people, over £187m was raised, but here you are laughing at people who through no fault of their own have been reduced to eating mud in order to fend off starvation - what a shame >:

The people who fought are long dead bro - and again, that is simply history. There are 3m homeless out of a population of 9m at the moment - that is a serious need that sshould be met as much as possible.

this is why we continue to make mistakes because we do not know nor care about our history, yes the people who fought are dead but they will never be forgotten - had it not been for the likes of Toussaint Louverture and Jean Jacques Dessalines, Haitians would have remained slaves until well into the 20th century just like the other neigbouring carribean islands - they are now paying the price for their bravery .  As a matter of fact after Toussaint defeated the british and spanish Napoleon of France tried to broker a deal with the Haitian generals offering some of them freedom in exchange for re introducing slavery for the rest of the black population, Toussaint refused.

Nigeria isn't heaven, but I don't think you have 3m people in the country homeless sleeping under the elements without anyone to turn to.

No but what you have is a steady exodus of nigerians leaving the country to live as second class citizens in countries where we are despised and mistreated despite the fact that our own country is actually richer than most of the countries we have been forced to flee to.

anyway dont you think youre being a bit naive  to think that what is happening in Haiti could never happen in Nigeria in one form or another - do you seriously think that if there were to be a major catastrophe in nigeria those vagabonds in power would bat an eyelid when people would made destitute?

maybe you're too young to remember Maroko in lagos where poor residents were kicked off their ancestral land in order to make room for army generals who built themselves  an exclusive housing estate on the land leaving the unfortunate former residents to fend for themselves in the streets without monetary compensation.

Nigeria's situation is much worse than Haiti because it has oil and yet 70% of the population live below the poverty line.  Nigerians are being oppressed by a foreign power the same way  Haiti is being exploited and subjugated by a foreign power.

The 'intellectual' argument however, is that we are neglecting Nigeria/Africa. I don't believe that is the case. We can always help more, but please the remittances of Africans to the homeland is far in excess of any $1 or $10 one off donation to an emergency relief effort.

we shouldnt need to keep remitting money home when we are the 5th largest oil exporter in the world, our govts should be able to provide a decent standard of living for every man woman and child, just like Gaddafi has done in oil rich Libya.

The billions sent back annually BY AFRICANS probably exceed the annual aid budget sent to Africa. This steady stream sent to help bring succour to the continent cannot be ignored - this is wholly contrary to the claim by David that people care more about others instead of themselves - Africans are their brothers keepers. Some of our leaders might be more selfish, but the average African abroad sends significant portions of his income to Africa.

which aid budget to africa - aid to africa is a scam being run by foreign NGO's and various american banks this so called aid are actually LOANs with massive interest attached - this is a scam being run by the world bank and the IMF to keep africa poor and indebted forever - the IMF and world bank are currently trying to do the same thing to Greece and Iceland but the people of these countries have risen up en masse to state categorically that they will not repay these extortionate sums - this is modern day extortion and slavery, only when its being used against africans is it called aid and like the docile fools that we are we swallow the lie hook line and sinker.

yeswecan:
GOD . . . you are good

thanks bros - our people are finished - we cant see the wood for the trees

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=378391.msg5319227#msg5319227 date=1263529676]hahahaha.  Boy, are you easy!

First post of yours I noticed was in here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-227264.32.html#msg5310223. 
Brilliant, by the way, so I had to do further research - make sure it wasn't a fluke, you know.  I checked out your more recent posts, from your user profile.  Briefly, because it kinda felt like stalking.  Anyway, I couldn't be more impressed.   

I'll leave it at that for now   

But, I'll be reading you around, Brother Cap. Hopefully in a different thread.

*I have no idea how to get back on topic*[/quote]haha am far from easy girl - as a matter of fact am in a great relationship

but thanks for the compliments anyway nice to know some people are listening.

ciao

@davidylan you are completely wrong in everything you have said on here about Haiti.

Haiti is the only former slave colony that emancipated itself from slavery, it fought and defeated 3 foreign imperial countries - france, britain and spain.  It was declared a republic in 1804 and that is where its problems began.  It was forced to pay reparations running into millions of francs for the simple reason that it stood up to the west and won.  Has Nigeria done even one quarter of any of that.

all Haiti's present day problems stem from Western interference, to be precise - american interference.

after it became a republic europe and america imposed economic trade embargos against the country for over 50 years which caused its economy to collapse.  

america has invaded Haiti more than 5 times each time putting in power puppet leaders - Papa Doc and Baby Doc were both US puppets who destroyed their countries economy in cahoots with the americans.

the only time the Haitians had any chance of good leadership was when the people's choice Jean Paul Aristide was democratically elected in 2004 unfortunately he was abducted and deported to the Congo sixth months later by US trained militias acting on behalf of Washington who didnt like the fact that Aristide wanted to introduce a minimum wage, take back land appropriated by american multinationals and use it for growing food for Haitian people.  

Haiti has now been converted into a giant sweat shop where americans exploit the cheap labour paying them as little as 15 cents an hour.

Haiti has never been given a chance to prosper instead it was punished for daring to stand up and challenge the West.

[quote author=isale_gan2 link=topic=378391.msg5311479#msg5311479 date=1263439980]I've read some of your posts and I have one thing to say:  Will you marry me?  We are so simpatico!  Of course, there are conditions, of which the most crucial is, I do not want to live in oyinbo land forever o, so you will need to be ready to return home in the very near future.   

Disclaimer: I may or may not be serious.  I may or may not be single and able to backup this offer of matrimony.  I could even be a cross-dressing baby-daddy on the lam from child-support.  [/quote]@isale gan thank you - of course ill marry you, im happy someone agrees with me on something, im flattered, you know what im tired of living in another man's land and im actually thinking of relocating to nigeria v soon, so you're timing is right on cue - maybe we should elope 

what do you mean "you may or may not be serious" its either you are or you're not - anyway i do hope you arent a cross dressing baby daddy on the lam from child support 

btw which of my posts were you reading

@davidylan you are out of line with some of the comments you are coming out with here.

Haiti is a country which has been TARGETED for economic exploitation by the US govt for over 200 years.

are you aware that Haiti was the first black republic, the only nation of blacks who fought and defeated THREE FOREIGN IMPERIAL ARMIES - France, Spain and Britain are you aware that after emancipating themselves in 1804 they were forced to pay COMPENSATION to french slave holders which effectively bankrupted their country.

Haiti has and remains a target of US agression as punishment for emancipating themselves from slavery. The US and europe imposed an economic blockade against this country for over 50 years causing their economy to go into a complete tailspin. They were effectively isolated economically and politically.

The abuse did not stop there, over the years america has invaded this country countless times imposing corrupt puppet dictatorships along the way and causing misery for the Haitian people.

Aristide, the people's choice won a democratic election in 2004 but was kidnapped by US militia thugs who deported him from his own country to Congo and now Haitians are lumbered with another US backed puppet.

The US multinationals have transformed this former wealthy island into a giant sweat shop where poor Haitians work for less than 15cents an hour - Aristide introduced the minimum wage and was trying to introduce land reforms, free education, access to health care and other social services for all Haitians but this clashed with america's capitalist agenda of land appropriation and the exploitation of cheap Haitian labour.

You know nothing about these people and yet you attack them in their moment of need.

these people have done nothing to deserve this terrible earthquake, this country has gone from one tragedy to another and they are the most courageous black people you will ever come across.

here is an excerpt from a book written by an american journalist/cartoonist detailing US interference in Haiti:


Haiti
from the book
The CIAs Greatest Hits
by Mark Zepezauer



US troops invaded Haiti five times, once staying for almost twenty years (1915-35). At the end of that prolonged visit, during which we killed thousands of Haitians for daring to rebel, we left the country in the hands of the local National Guard, confident that they'd carry on our good work.
From this arrangement emerged the Duvalier family dynasty and their private terrorist force, the machete-wielding Tontons Macoutes. "Papa Doc" Duvalier (he was a medical doctor) also relied on voodoo incantations and, during a 1959 uprising, the timely assistance of the US military. When Papa Doc died in 1971, his 19-year-old son, called Baby Doc, became "president-for-life."
Throughout the blood-drenched rule of the Duvaliers (nearly 100,000 killed by the Tontons Macoutes alone), the US barely uttered a peep about human rights violations. In 1986, however, when it became apparent that Baby Doc's presidency could not in fact be sustained for his entire life (unless he died soon), the Reagan administration airlifted him to a retirement villa in France and started talking about the "democratic process."
Before that could begin, however, the Haitian military had to be further strengthened. CIA money began flowing to Haiti, which had already seen US aid double during the Reagan years. The CIA set up an anti-narcotics service called-appropriately-SIN ("national intelligence service". As one CIA man admitted, SIN used its millions in CIA subsidies mainly to suppress popular movements by means of torture and assassination. Far from combating drugs, many SIN officers engage in the drug trade themselves.
In 1990, elections were finally allowed. Haitians stunned the US by rejecting the candidate we preferred in favor of a left-wing Catholic priest, Jean Bertrand Aristide. The Bush administration could scarcely conceal its joy when Haiti's US-trained military deposed Aristide eight months later.
When Bill Clinton took office, he offered lip service to the idea of returning Aristide to power. Even this hypocritical posturing was too much for the CIA, who leaked a"psychological profile" that painted the courageous, dedicated Aristide as a "psychopath."
Endless waves of refugees, and US embarrassment over more than 4,000 killings by Haitian security forces, have led to even more vigorous US lip service. But if history is any indication, the chances of a government coming to power that meets the needs of the Haitian people are slim to none.

@davidylan you are way out of line with some of the disgusting garbage you are coming out with here.  

Haiti is a country which has been TARGETED for destruction by the US govt for over 200 years, you are completely ignorant to spout this nonsense when you have absolutely zero knowledge or understanding of Haitian history.

are you aware that Haiti was the first black republic, the only nation of blacks who fought and defeated THREE FOREIGN IMPERIAL ARMIES - France, Spain and Britain  are you aware that after emancipating themselves in 1804 they were forced to pay COMPENSATION to french slave holders which effectively bankrupted their country.  

Haiti has and remains a target of US agression as punishment for emancipating themselves from slavery.  The US and europe imposed an economic blockade against this country for over 50 years causing their economy to go into a complete tailspin.  They were effectively isolated economically and politically.

The abuse did not stop there, over the years america has invaded this country countless times imposing corrupt puppet dictatorships along the way and causing misery for the Haitian people.

Aristide the people's choice won a democratic election in 2004 but was kidnapped by US militia thugs who deported him from his own country to Congo and now they are lumbered with another US puppet.  

The US multinationals have transformed this former wealthy island into a giant sweat shop where poor Haitians work for less than 15cents an hour - these are the things Aristide was trying to stop.

You know nothing about these people and yet you attack them in their moment of need.

these people have done nothing to deserve this terrible earthquake, this country has gone from one tragedy to another and they are the most courageous black people you will ever come across.

here is an excerpt from a book written by an american journalist/cartoonist detailing US interference in Haiti:


Haiti
from the book
The CIAs Greatest Hits
by Mark Zepezauer



US troops invaded Haiti five times, once staying for almost twenty years (1915-35). At the end of that prolonged visit, during which we killed thousands of Haitians for daring to rebel, we left the country in the hands of the local National Guard, confident that they'd carry on our good work.
From this arrangement emerged the Duvalier family dynasty and their private terrorist force, the machete-wielding Tontons Macoutes. "Papa Doc" Duvalier (he was a medical doctor) also relied on voodoo incantations and, during a 1959 uprising, the timely assistance of the US military. When Papa Doc died in 1971, his 19-year-old son, called Baby Doc, became "president-for-life."
Throughout the blood-drenched rule of the Duvaliers (nearly 100,000 killed by the Tontons Macoutes alone), the US barely uttered a peep about human rights violations. In 1986, however, when it became apparent that Baby Doc's presidency could not in fact be sustained for his entire life (unless he died soon), the Reagan administration airlifted him to a retirement villa in France and started talking about the "democratic process."
Before that could begin, however, the Haitian military had to be further strengthened. CIA money began flowing to Haiti, which had already seen US aid double during the Reagan years. The CIA set up an anti-narcotics service called-appropriately-SIN ("national intelligence service". As one CIA man admitted, SIN used its millions in CIA subsidies mainly to suppress popular movements by means of torture and assassination. Far from combating drugs, many SIN officers engage in the drug trade themselves.
In 1990, elections were finally allowed. Haitians stunned the US by rejecting the candidate we preferred in favor of a left-wing Catholic priest, Jean Bertrand Aristide. The Bush administration could scarcely conceal its joy when Haiti's US-trained military deposed Aristide eight months later.
When Bill Clinton took office, he offered lip service to the idea of returning Aristide to power. Even this hypocritical posturing was too much for the CIA, who leaked a"psychological profile" that painted the courageous, dedicated Aristide as a "psychopath."
Endless waves of refugees, and US embarrassment over more than 4,000 killings by Haitian security forces, have led to even more vigorous US lip service. But if history is any indication, the chances of a government coming to power that meets the needs of the Haitian people are slim to none.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Onlytruth:
We love him even more today than in 1967 because we've had the time and opportunity to cross check your lies for 40 years! That is long time enough to know the truth.
You are the numbskull!

whatever - i suppose the death of 3 million igbos (mainly women and children) from starvation was a lie.

come on - face up to the truth he took igbos for a ride, i am igbo myself but i cannot serve at the alter of Ojukwu becauase he betrayed his people, many igbos were intimidated by him, this was a clear cut case of inferiority complex towards a person who was deemed to be of a higher social status.  Sadly he did not use his western education or military training to acheive anything for his people.

[quote author=bk_baybe99 link=topic=381076.msg5311043#msg5311043 date=1263431798]A leader?!?!?! From what I just  read on another thread he agreed to march against government tyranny yesterday only to be a no show; most likely cus he's been promised some money. What kinda leader is that? Never hesitates to display cowardice!!!!wow. and this is the brightest bulb in the ibo chandelier!?!!?[/quote]ha ha you are wasting your time with these retards - the are  too dumb to recognise an opportunist when they see one, this tin pot idol Ojukwu whose alter they continue to worship at has had them trapped in this mindset for years despite his utter betrayal of them.

Ojukwu is a member of the ruling class - he has no interest in bettering the plight of the ordinary man - this is what these numbskulls cant get into their thick skulls.

Onlytruth:
Keep deceiving yourself with half education. The man is more popular than your father and your people dream of such a leader but can never produce such. He is not just our leader; he is our ICON, so get that straight.

i know how you feel the truth is bitter - awake from your delusional state and switch on your brain, read my lips ojukwu did not give a f**** about his fellow igbos, he was a megalomaniac who was only interested in power even if it meant 3million of his own people perishing in order for him to acheive this, do you know of any revolutionary leader who after waging war returned to form an alliance with their enemies - wake me up when you can answer that question.

i will not do him the honour of mentioning his name in the same sentence as people like Fidel Castro, Che Guevera, Patrice Lumumba, Abdel Nasser and Kwame Nkrumah - go and read some books as you are in dire need of some education - ignorance can kill!!!

cantell:
@Cap28,
The biafra war wasn't because Odumegwu Ojukwu was selfish but because he was fighting for his people.
So long.

hmm so he claims, but a true leader does not sacrifice 3million lives for nothing, leave the country and then return to form an alliance with the same people who massacred your people.  I smell deal in there somewhere, me thinks he was promised a piece of the action by the british but unfortunately for him was outsmarted by the british who are known for their cunning and treachery,  he has continued to perpetuate the myth that he actually gave a shit about his people, on the contrary he offered them up as sacrificial lambs in his megalomania fuelled adventure.

@bk baybe 99 you sound really naive - for any ethnic group in nigeria to think that they can just secede and take the oil wells with them is the biggest joke of the century.  Ask yourself this question - why and how did nigeria defeat biafra in the civil war.  Yes i agree that Ojukwu waged a war for selfish motives (i am igbo btw) but in my view the war was orchestrated by britain.  any ethnic group which intends to secede with the oil reserves will need to understand that they will have to fight a war against britain and america possibly a guerilla war as militarily i dont think any ethnic group in nigeria is sufficiently armed to defend themselves or wage war against the military might of those two.

There is no way the West will tolerate the transfer of power to another ethnic group unless they either sanction it or are defeated in armed struggle.

after all they put their  stooges (the hausa fulani oligarcy) in charge for a reason - what makes you think they will willing allow another group to take control.  Wake up!!! Nigeria is a puppet nation to the United States and Britain.

@ elliptical just finished reading your piece and to be honest i was finding it difficult to finish reading it as it started getting me angrier and angrier

first of all i am a nigerian but im ashamed when people like you identify yourself as nigerians because you are an embarrassment. people like you give white people the ammunitition to continue to divide and rule us, they pit us against each other because of people with low mentality like you.

if you had any common sense you would applaud south africans for standing up and fighting to rid themselves of one of the most heinous systems of oppression ever created in history, do you know what it means to be subjugated by foreigners, not allowed to get a decent education, tortured and brutalised in your father's land? - Or do you know what its like to not be allowed a decent education because of racist legislation that made it legal for blacks to be given a substandard education -go and read up about the Bantu Education Act and maybe that might clear the confusion in your mind.

How would you feel if your entire family was kicked off its land and herded into a dirty shanty town for the rest of their lives, would you like it if your parents had to go and work as housemaids and gardeners for whites irrespective of their knowledge and ability, never being able to realise their dreams and give their children a good life?

what you have shown from your write up is staggering ignorance. Why should south africans look up to nigerians when nigerians havent even had the courage to stand up for their rights the way the south africans have done. YOu have the nerve to go to another mans country and challenge him, if you had braved machine guns and police dogs like them then you would be in a position to talk but you havent so please stop with the stupidity.

Everywhere in the world nigerians are hated because of their blind ignorance and arrogance, surely if everyone is complaining about this there must be some truth in it - i think its time to look inward instead of blaming others for our faults.

As a matter of fact nigeria is currently under an aparthied system - the only difference is that the abusers are our own people!!! go and free nigeria from the tyranny which has consumed it instead of talking garbage about other people who have dared to do what you havent got the guts to do.

here is an interesting article written by a south african political scientist expressing his view that the US's proposals to locate military bases on the African continent is part of a plan by the US to recolonise Africa.


Africom - Latest US Bid To
Recolonise Continent
By Tichaona Nhamoyebonde
allAfrica.com
1-11-10

Harare - AFRICAN revolutionaries now have to sleep with one eye open because the United States of America is not stopping at anything in its bid to establish Africom, a highly-equipped US army that will be permanently resident in Africa to oversee the country's imperialist interests.

Towards the end of last year, the US government intensified its efforts to bring a permanent army to settle in Africa, dubbed the African Command (Africom) as a latest tool for the subtle recolonisation of Africa.

Just before end of last year, General William E. Garret, Commander US Army for Africa, met with defence attaches from all African embassies in Washington to lure them into selling the idea of an American army based in Africa to their governments.

Latest reports from the White House this January indicate that 75 percent of the army's establishment work has been done through a military unit based in Stuttgart, Germany, and that what is left is to get an African country to host the army and get things moving.

Liberia and Morocco have offered to host Africom while Sadc has closed out any possibility of any of its member states hosting the US army.

Other individual countries have remained quiet.

Liberia has longstanding ties with the US due to its slave history while errant Morocco, which is not a member of the African Union and does not hold elections, might want the US army to assist it to suppress any future democratic uprising.

Sadc's refusal is a small victory for the people of Africa in their struggle for total independence but the rest of the regional blocs in Africa are yet to come up with a common position. This is worrying.

The US itself wanted a more strategic country than Morocco and Liberia since the army will be the epicentre of influencing, articulating and safeguarding US foreign and economic policies.

The other danger is that Africom will open up Africa as a battleground between America and anti-US terrorist groups.

Africom is a smokescreen behind which America wants to hide its means to secure Africa's oil and other natural resources, nothing more.

African leaders must not forget that military might has been used by America and Europe again and again as the only effective way of accomplishing their agenda in ensuring that governments in each country are run by people who toe their line.

By virtue of its being resident in Africa, Africom will ensure that America has its tentacles easily reaching every African country and influencing every event to the American advantage.

By hosting the army, Africa will have sub-contracted its military independence to America and will have accepted the process that starts its recolonisation through an army that can subdue any attempts by Africa to show its own military prowess.

The major question is: Who will remove Africom once it is established? By what means?

By its origin Africom will be technically and financially superior to any African country's army and will dictate the pace for regime change in any country at will and also give depth, direction and impetus to the US natural resource exploitation scheme.

There is no doubt that as soon as the army gets operational in Africa, all the gains of independence will be reversed.

If the current leadership in Africa succumbs to the whims of the US and accept the operation of this army in Africa, they will go down in the annals of history as that generation of politicians who accepted the evil to prevail.

Even William Shakespeare would turn and twist in his grave and say: "I told you guys that it takes good men to do nothing for evil to prevail."

We must not forget that Africans, who are still smarting from colonialism-induced humiliation, subjugation, brutality and inferiority complex, do not need to be taken back to another form of colonialism, albeit subtle.

Africom has been controversial on the continent ever since former US president George W. Bush first announced it in February 2007.

African leaders must not forget that under the Barack Obama administration, US policy towards Africa and the rest of the developing world has not changed an inch. It remains militaristic and materialistic.

Officials in both the Bush and Obama administrations argue that the major objective of Africom is to professionalise security forces in key countries across Africa.

However, both administrations do not attempt to address the impact of the setting up of Africom on minority parties, governments and strong leaders considered errant or whether the US will not use Africom to promote friendly dictators.

Training and weapons programmes and arms transfers from Ukraine to Equatorial Guinea, Chad, Ethiopia and the transitional government in Somalia, clearly indicate the use of military might to maintain influence in governments in Africa, remains a priority of US foreign policy.

Ukraine's current leadership was put into power by the US under the Orange Revolution and is being given a free role to supply weaponry in African conflicts.

African leaders must show solidarity and block every move by America to set up its bases in the motherland unless they want to see a new round of colonisation.

Kwame Nkrumah, Robert Mugabe, Sam Nujoma, Nelson Mandela, Julius Nyerere, Hastings Kamuzu Banda, Kenneth Kaunda, Augustino Neto and Samora Machel, among others, will have fought liberation wars for nothing, if Africom is allowed a base in Africa.

Thousands of Africans who died in colonial prisons and in war fronts during the liberation struggles, will have shed their blood for nothing if Africa is recolonised.

Why should the current crop of African leaders accept systematic recolonisation when they have learnt a lot from colonialism, apartheid and racism? Why should the current crop of African leaders fail to stand measure for measure against the US administration and tell it straight in the face that Africa does not need a foreign army since the AU is working out its own army.

African leaders do not need prophets from Mars to know that US's fascination with oil, the war on terrorism and the military will now be centred on Africa, after that escapade in Iraq.

Tichaona Nhamoyebonde is a political scientist based in Cape Town, South Africa.

Copyright © 2010 The Herald. All rights reserved. Distributed by AllAfrica Global Media (allAfrica.com).

No2Atheism:
- Imagine being asked to pay your tormentor money because you were able to free yourself from being tormented . . .which then resulted in a loss of investement by the tormentor.

- Sometimes I sincerely feel like there is no hope for Africa and black people in general . . . cus statements made by individuals such as Edoyad only makes one realise that maybe we black people are fighting a losing battle . . . cus it seems some africans are hell bent on ignoring facts and logic and instead remain in their comfort zone.

- At times i am simply astounded as to whether some individuals on narialand are even "black" to begin with  . . . .cus sometimes their statments and insinuations makes suspect otherwise.

@no 2 Atheism i understand where you are coming from and i feel the same frustration, our people are sleepwalking into a nightmare situation that they can only imagine, this is the same way the Jews docilely walked into their graves under Hitler's nazi germany, many of them refused to beleive that the Nazi's could be capable of such staggering evil.  Many of them were lulled into a false sense of security and remained delusional. 
This is why the whites do not see us as a threat, they know that they have got many of us where they want us. 

My beleif is that western education and religion has completely destroyed the ability of many black people to think critically, i think maybe because we have not been tested like the south africans under aparthied we have adopted a childlike mentality where we put all of our trust into the hands of our oppressors. 

Notice how Edoyad cannot even bring him or herself to question anything that he has been conditioned to accept as the truth his/her mantra is "as long as it comes from the west it must be true".  even when i posted a link written by a nigerian he immediately denounced it as being suspect but had it been a link from CNN, Sky or the bbc he would not have questioned it.  its sad we have a very long way to go as a race, unfortunately the rest of the world will not sit around waiting for us to catch up.

edoyad:
Cap28, the fact that those documents are in public domain is a testament to the transparency in the US system that's lacking in trash can banana republics(and soon to be failed states) like Nigeria.
Cuba, and Fidel Castro in particular almost drove the world into a nuclear war in october of 1962 when it decided to host Russian missiles with nuclear capabilities. The US after settling with Russia had on choice but to increase the sanctions on Cuba which was already a pariah state then. The US has always shown that the communist leaning leadership that was suppressing the real Cubans was It's enemy and not Cubans themselves. As for Aristide,
Haiti is the poorest Country in the Americas as a result of corruption, would the US sit back and let Haiti fall into anarchy when it was obvious Aristide was utter rubbish like his African leader cousins ?
And about the WMD in Iraq, even highly placed officials in washington of which Powell was one were averse to that invasion. But after all is said and done Sadam was an oppressor who got what was coming and Iraq is already showing signs of recovery with the reduction of alqaeda attacks.

@edoyad notice that i said SOME of these documents not all are in the public domain - most of the documentation implicating US involvement in assassinations, coup de tats and invasions of foreign countries were only declassified following public condemnation of US foreign policy, protests and campaigns by the american people they were not voluntarily released by the US govt.  Some independent investigative journalists who were outraged by what their govt was doing in their name started blowing the whistle on their govt many of these people mysteriously ended up dead. Some started campaigning for peace (John Lennon) and were murdered.

You are completely unaware of what sort of world you are living in which i think is dangerous because ignorance is most definitely not bliss if you are an african or person of african descent you cannot afford to be ignorant of what is happening around you.

the other thing to note is that even though some of these documents are in the public domain that does not mean members of the american public are actually interested in reading them, many americans are very insular and are not concerned about what is going on outiside the US unless it directly affects them, this is one of the reasons the US govt have declassified some information and not others.  for example documents surrounding the assassination of JFK, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X are still classified whereas US govt involvement in depopulation of certain so called third world countries was declassified in 1989 because the US govt predicted that it wouldnt attract that much interest from the american public.

With regard to Cuba you are incorrect - russia deployed nuclear missiles in Cuba because  america had already encircled russia with nuclear missiles.  Russia were provoked into a response and that response was to place nuclear missiles in cuba which was already being threatened with invasion from america.

Castro's crime was that he had seized 1 million acres of land which the americans had stolen from the cuban people to grow cash crops for export which was enriching america and impoverishing cuba.  Castro seized the land, nationalised the banks and businesses and got rid of a corrupt elite who were destroying cuba's economy.  america launched the bay of pigs invasion in 1961 in order to return the country back to the former corrupt elite but fortunately for Cuba they failed in their attempt.  

Aristide was trying to do something similar - he introduced the minimum wage to protect haitians from predatory american corporations who were exploiting haitians for cheap labour, he also tried to introdue various socialist reforms which would have alleviated poverty and increase access to education and other social services but he was tragically stopped in his tracks by a coup de tat sponsored by george bush junior, kidnapped under armed guard from his presidential palace in the middle of the night and put on a plane which eventually landed in the congo.

if you had read the history of haiti you would not make such an ignorant statement - haiti was and remains the first black republic, they are the only nation of black people who fought and defeated foreign armies, (france, britain, spain and england)  it was after their emancipation in 1804 that slavery was abolished (go figure)

they were subsequently subjected to economic blockades by europe and the US for more than 50 years and were even asked to pay reparations worth millions of francs to the french government for freeing themselves from slavery!!!

america has invaded haiti so many times its impossible to keep track  - each time they have done so in order to impose puppet govts and plunder the country.  Please go and read about the history of this great nation of people as you are doing yourself a gross disservice by spouting all this garbage about a people who have such a proud history.  Nigerian people are yet to acheive anything near what these people acheived in terms of defeating the west.

as far as saddam and iraq are concerned again you are wrong - saddam was a CIA stooge who worked with the US govt to oppress his people.  Rumsfeld and Bush sold biological weapons to him which he used to almost wipe out the entire Kurdish population.  He was removed from power because he unilaterally decided to stop selling oil using american dollars, his plan was to bankrupt the US economy and start selling oil using Euros instead, this would have caused the collapse of the US economy and as a result the americans invaded the country.

as for colin powell he is an uncle tom lap dog maybe you should read about the role he played in the cover up of the notorious my lai massacre in vietnam where hundreds of men, women and children were murdered by american troops.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8339

edoyad:
@cap28, first thing is i don't visit sites like dawodu.com to get authentic info.
Secondly you're bringing outrageous claims of alleged claims that Henry Kissinger submitted as regards "control" of population in countries of which half of them are today are best allies with the US and heavily reliant on the US; Columbia is one of the highest beneficiaries of aid from the US, Brazil is one of South America's largest exporters to the US, Turkey's bid to join the EU is being strongly backed by washington and that's no secret, Philipinos in the US remit billions back good wha make up a strong percentage of the philipine economy. . . . .
Thirdly policy does change overtime, Iran wasn't on your list but i guaranty today that wouldn't be the reality if a list for "birth control targets" were to be compiled. As long as a countries aspirations are considered healthy to global affairs why would it be maligned ?

@edoyad since you dont visit sites like dawodu.com to get authentic info  - perhaps you might want to take a look at this one:

http://www.lossless-audio.com/usa/

the info contained in the dawodu article can be verified by acccessing SOME declassified US documents available in the US public archives.  

secondly you  refer to the information about henry kissinger as "outrageous alleged information" without coming up with any reason as to why you think so - have you read memorandum NSSM 200 - I attach a link here for you this is a DECLASSIFIED US document which is STILL US govt policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Study_Memorandum_200

you then go on to make the statement "as long as a country's aspirations are considered healthy to global affairs why would it be maligned"  - i would respond by asking you this question: why has the US continued to impose a 51 year trade embargo on Cuba despite the latter's continuous desire to engage in constructive dialogue with the US, why was Aristide of Haiti deported to the Congo despite winning a democratic election in his country in 2004  and why was Iraq invaded under the pretext of having WMD's despite evidence from inspectors to the contrary?

some more links:

http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/nwopopcnsaglobal2000report10mar81.shtml

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/8435/Kissinger_And_Haass_Confronted_on_Depopulation/

this is the most embarrassing post i have ever read- @pafun

first of all go and ask Liberians how they have been treated by the americans - ask them about the years of abuse they suffered at the hands of the descendants of the freed slaves who were transported back to Liberia by the US govt and made to rule over the indigenous Liberians, go and find out how the descendants of those freed slaves looked down on the indigenous Liberians seeing them as inferior and how in collusion with the US govt one family of freed slaves ruled Liberia for almost 150 years with US backed support until Samuel Doe overthrew them, ask them about how those same descendants of freed slaves colluded with the US govt to appropriate rubber and enrich american owned rubber company Firestone

or maybe you need to ask them about how america instigated the war in their country and then abandoned the Liberians to slaughter each other.

you are completely brainwashed to beleive that america gives a damn about the welfare and economic devlopement of nigerian people.

are you aware that most nigerian leaders who have ruled the country since 1976 are CIA stooges - here is an article about how the CIA were considering INVADING nigeria in 1975 following the OPEC embargo imposed on western countries which almost crippled the US economy.

http://www.dawodu.com/cia1.htm

one of many policies that the US has continued to implement against nigeria is POPULATION CONTROL ie reduction of birth rate in nigeria because nigeria's high population is seen as a "threat to US national security" they believe that if the population of nigeria continues to grow this would  "increase nigeria's relative economic, political and military strength"

the way the US see it is that the high population growth could mean that any attempt by the americans to invade could be met with stiff resistance from the indigenous people therefore in order to avoid such a situation they would prefer instead a covert tactic of decimating the population first and then invading thereby reducing the threat of resistance.

America's agenda towards nigeria is death,destruction and massive exploitation - this did not just start today they have been planning this for years, as far back as 1974 the then US national security adviser - henry kissinger even prepared a document highlighting the following:

the implementation of population reduction in several countries perceived as a threat to the US national security - nigeria was one of the countries listed.

Kissinger advocated using the following methods: war, artificial food shortages(famine) , biological war fare (AIDS), sterilization,

here is an excerpt from an article written by an american think tank about this document (National security study memorandum 200)


On Dec. 10, 1974, the U.S. National Security Council under Henry Kissinger completed a classified 200-page study, “National Security Study Memorandum 200: Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security and Overseas Interests.” The study falsely claimed that population growth in the so-called Lesser Developed Countries (LDCs) was a grave threat to U.S. national security. Adopted as official policy in November 1975 by President Gerald Ford, NSSM 200 outlined a covert plan to reduce population growth in those countries through birth control, and also, implicitly, war and famine.

Brent Scowcroft, who had by then replaced Kissinger as national security adviser (the same post Scowcroft was to hold in the Bush administration), was put in charge of implementing the plan. CIA Director George Bush was ordered to assist Scowcroft, as were the secretaries of state, treasury, defense, and agriculture.

The bogus arguments that Kissinger advanced were not original. One of his major sources was the Royal Commission on Population, which King George VI had created in 1944 “to consider what measures should be taken in the national interest to influence the future trend of population.” The commission found that Britain was gravely threatened by population growth in its colonies, since “a populous country has decided advantages over a sparsely-populated one for industrial production.”The combined effects of increasing population and industrialization in its colonies, it warned, “might be decisive in its effects on the prestige and influence of the West,” especially effecting “military strength and security.”

NSSM 200 similarly concluded that the United States was threatened by population growth in the former colonial sector.
It paid special attention to 13 “key countries” in which the United States had a “special political and strategic interest”: India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Turkey, Nigeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Mexico, Brazil, and Colombia. It claimed that population growth in those states was especially worrisome, since it would quickly increase their relative political, economic, and military strength.

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/food_for_peace/kiss_nssm_jb_1995.html


does any of this sound like the behaviour of people who have your best interests at heart?

adconline:
@cap28
I am puzzled as to why america has decided to put nigeria on this terror blacklist. the idea that nigeria is now to be regarded as a state sponsor of terrorism is a pathetic joke - because the americans themselves know that nigeria has nothing to do with this fake terrorist attack.

"A fake terrorist" doesn't buy a one way ticket with no luggage. Boarded a plane in Naija. This guy was clearly on a suicide mission. US has not classified Nigeria as a state sponsor of terror, but amongst nations of interests.

yes you're right- he definitely fits neatly into the profile of a terrorist, therefore i wonder why he didnt attract any suspicion from the airport security officials.  the fact that he bought a ticket in cash  and had no luggage shoudl have been enough to have him taken away for questioning but he seemed to sail smoothly through all levels of airport security - i wonder why?

okay so we're not "state sponsors of terrorism we're just a country of interest what difference does it make - we have effectively been branded a pariah country.

consider cuba, libya and venezuela all so called rogue states - but isnt it interesting that these countries all have one thing in common they kicked out US and UK multinationals who were plundering and destroying their economies

Conspiracy theories. Libya was as result of Lockerbie Bombing. By the way it caved in and has started business relations with the US. Venezuela is so much dependent on American dollars, it has got gas stations and refineries in the US. It's in top 4 US suppliers of crude oil. Venezuela cannot do without US. Cuba is about govt. This is indicative of the fact US doesn't flinch when it imposes sanctions. It's Cuba that is still suffering from US imposed sanctions.If US can bite Saudi Arabia, Nigeria is a small fry for a nation that has got an appetite for destruction if provoked.

those are not conspiracy theories - Libya was not involved in the Lockerbie bombing it was blackmailed into taking the rap in exchange for the US agreeing to lift economic sanctions that had been used to cripple its economy for over 20 years.  Al Megrahi was released by the Scottish govt because new evidence had just emerged which would have cleared his name and implicated a deal that would have been damaging to  the US govt.

all evidence that the british govt have surrounding the lockerbie case is now classified for life and can never be disclosed to the public under public interest immunity. 
http://news.scotsman.com/comment/Tam-Dalyell-Lockerbie-papers-may.5575560.jp

you have obviously been taken in by the propaganda campaign that america wages against its enemies each time its trying to get public opinion on its side - if you had taken the time to think for yourself you would stop and ask yourself why the US are so interested in smearing Chavez's character.  this is a man who got rid of a corrupt group of politicans who almost bankrupted their country whilst implementing economic policies favourable to the US.  Chavez brought those years of plunder to an abrupt end together with america's free for all bonanza of buying oil at rock bottom prices now he is their  worst enemy, cant you even open your eyes and see the similiarities with your own country.

i dont know what you mean when you say "Cuba is about govt" but you dont sound as if you know what youre talking about as all sane people regard Fidel Castro as a hero for preventing the economic destruction of his country by america - yes america imposed economic sanctions which have been in place since 1959 but this has attracted condemnation from any decent thinking human being not snide remarks.

Cuba can boast of giving all its citizens  access to free education at all levels , housing and health care - something no nigerian govt has ever had the decency to do.  Would you have preferred the previous US backed puppet govt under Batista which allowed the american mafia to turn the country into a gambling, prostitution and drug trafficking cesspitt?

the Saudi royal family are one of the most corrupt and despotic govts in the world but they are kept in power by their american friends - this is a country where women are beheaded for comitting adultery.  unlike nigerians the saudi people are now fed up of living under US domination and they are rebelling maybe this shoudl explain why america is fomenting trouble in that region. 

i dont understand why you are defending the US as their track record with regard to black people is terrible to say the least - you might not know this but they actively supported and financed apartheid south africa and continue to aid and abet corrupt repressive regimes in africa and lets not even start talking about the discrimination, degradation and dehumanisation of blacks in north america which continues till today. [quote][/quote]

Gbawe:
Is it not obvious that I have not claimed otherwise? My point is that the world is no longer enamoured with Obama to the point that everything he says is quoted like one of the ten commandments. There are now chinks in the Armour . In fact , some folks now cringe from associating themselves with some of Obama's previous utterances because they feel it displays the gullibility that made them vote for Obama when his opponents insisted that he was just a man waxing lyrical , with no deep convictions over what he is preaching !!!!

Obamas speeches are high on rhetoric and low on substance, he is only following the instructions of his financiers and backers  just like every other american president before him (possibly with the exception of John F Kennedy)  he is a puppet of the american establishment, the same imperialist racist foreign policy only this time with a black face in order to dupe the masses (particularly africans and african americans).  at least the arabs were smart enough to see through the whole charade.

Obama does not have to worry about the feelings of Nigerians .  Inversely ,  Nigerians need not see him as anything special either given all the hypocritical prevarification we have seen from him  . He can say what he wants but to me certain things have shown he is a populist leader , seeking to appease everyone, rather than a great leader who will take unpopular choices , out of strong convictions, that turn out to be the correct ones !!

i would argue that he does not seek to appease anyone but his financial backers - see how quickly he dissassociated himself from people who were seen as threats to the white power structure (reverend wright, louis farrakhan)

the last time america had a president who made unpopular choices borne out of strong convictions he ended up dead (JFK)  Obama knows the consequences of stepping out of line, therefore he wont.  

Those who are coldly objective and decent observers of recent event till date will admit that Obama sacrificed a convenient scapegoat ( Nigeria) at the alter of political expediency !!!

and he will continue to do so if he wants to retain his position - however i think its bigger than that, i think there is a bigger objective behind the scapegoating of nigeria which will come to light much later.  

nigeria has never served any other purpose to the americans other than as a major source of (cheap) oil - ultimately america is only concerned with how cheap they can get the oil and nothing else- all this talk about democracy and good governance are code words for countries who are willing to adhere to their destructive capitalist economic policies which enrich the elite and multinationals and impoverish the vast majority of the indigenous population.

The writing was on the wall.  Obama savaged Nigeria ruthlessly , at every chance , for its corruption and anti-democratic nature yet he remained silent when facing the repressive Egyptian and Saudi Arabian autocrats.  Many Nigerians dont just accept what they are told without question. That is why many of us are who we are today.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/how_not_to_support_democracy_in_the_middle_east

the same way he continues to remain silent about the fact that the US, Britain and Israel are the highest exporters of arms to this same corrupt, repressive regime which he criticises when it suits him.

last year alone - Israel supplied the nigerian army with millions of dollars worth of spy planes, helicopter gunships and land mines in order to crush militant groups in the niger delta region - MEND being the main target.

also mossad is currently responsible for training nigerian troops in counter insurgency tactics aimed at smashing militant groups.

i am puzzled as to why america has decided to put nigeria on this  terror blacklist.  the idea that nigeria is now to be regarded as a state sponsor of terrorism is a pathetic joke - because the americans themselves know that nigeria has nothing to do with this fake terrorist attack.

im puzzled because nigeria is not what the americans would call a "rogue state" .  it has never challenged any western country,it has never defended its nation against foreign invaders it has never put the interest of its people before multinationals and foreign govts.

consider cuba, libya and venezuela all so called rogue states - but isnt it interesting that these countries all have one thing in common they kicked out US and UK multinationals who were plundering and destroying their economies.

No nigerian leader since murtala mohammed possibly with the exception of Buhari  has ever stood up to the west and put the interests of their people before the interests of foreigners.  but muhammed was murdered by a CIA sponsored plot because he started nationalising the oil sector and buhari was overthrown in a british sponsored coup d etat  because he refused to take on crippling IMF loans from the americans.

Every regime since Buhari has  done everything possible to please britain and america by implementing IMF and world bank policies which have led to the vast majority of nigerian people living in abject poverty.  they have mortgaged our natural resources to these foreign countries, opened up the country to be plundered and pillaged by foreign multinationals and not given a damn about their fellow citizens which is exactly what america and britain have demanded, so my question is why are they now being punished?

i can understand america's anger at chavez, ahmadinejad and gadaffi as their govts kicked out multinationals, nationalised their oil sector and reversed economic policies which were enriching foreign corporations while impoverishing ordinary people in the country.

all i can think of is the AFRICOM issue - i know that nigeria, libya and south africa opposed america's plan to locate various military bases on the african continent last  year because they (correctly) beleived that this could put their own positions in jeopardy as it would be easier for  the americans to deploy troops to overthrow them if they stepped out of line,  its either that or the fact that the americans are trying to blackmail nigeria into terminating all trade that nigeria is currently doing with China which i know is of major concern to america.  China is currently  a major threat to america's standing in the world as world superpower and they are determined to scupper any plans that China has to usurp that position - once again i beleive that nigeria is being used as a pawn in a much bigger war between superpowers.    

the idea that america is a country that gives a hoot about democracy is a joke, america is the biggest terrorist nation on the planet - it invades sovereign countries and wages war with impunity (iraq, haiti) it topples democratically elected govts using coup de tats (haiti, ecuador) it assassinates heads of states who refuse to tow their line (benazhir bhutto of pakistan) it supports terrorist racist countries (israel).  but because of its powerful media and military it bamboozles and tricks people into beleiving that it is the land of the free - nothing could be further from the truth.

texazzpete:
And where's your proof that this was made up by the FBI? So now it isnt just the CIA and Mossad, it's now the FBI too? Which other agency will you nuts rope into this grand 'conspiracy'? PETA? FERMA? NYSC
And what about the messages from Al Qaeda claiming responsibility on several islamist websites? Are they from the FBI and CIA too? If so, why would those american agencies exhort islamists to 'kill westerners and butcher the crusaders'?

those so called messages are all fabricated my friend. Yes the FBI are currently "investigating" as  international terrorism comes under their jurisdiction.

The intelligence chiefs are political appointees. Why then would they have any reason or motive to 'embarrass Obama' as many of you clowns have opined? And given the inevitable roasting the CIA would receive for failing to prevent this from happening, why would they set this up?
In all crimes, a motive has to be established and so far there's no logical motive. But then again, we've already established that you clowns aren;t in this for the logic.

please try and learn how to think outside the box - what makes you think the intelligence cheifs are not privy to this whole affair  - the idea that an intelligence cheif has the power to "embarass" Obama is a complete joke - US intelligence and FBI work FOR Obama - not the other way around- are you aware that the FBI have still not disclosed airport security videos of al mutallab's movement at Schipol - why is that, surely this should have been the first thing for them to disclose to the public in order to show his movement on the day.

Jairzinho has already answered you nicely on this issue, but learn to be honourable in your arguments and accept where you are wrong. You insisted that the CIA set up Al Qaeda in the 1980s, and we all know that's untrue. You just pulled that one out from between your buttcheeks

see my response to Jairzinho above

Don't make me laugh in Swahili! So you even know what 'factual evidence' means, abi? oya, tell me what the factual evidence linking the CIA and Mossad to this plot to blow up the plane. Put it in list form so i can easily tear it apart point by point.
'factual evidence'! LMAO!!

gosh you are so naive - open your eyes - it is obvious to any sane person that there is no way any person especially a young muslim nigerian man who was already on a US watch list would be allowed to board a plane to the US without  a passport - it simply would not happen.

Jairzinho:
You are the one not getting your facts right my friend. The US DID NOT & CANNOT FORM Mujahadeen,they are kafirs for christ sake,they only aided them in a proxy war against the Soviets,they were equally funded by pakistan ,in their own larger aspirations against India. The mujahadeen largely metamorphosised into the TALIBAN. Al Qaeda & Taliban tho' with similar ideologies have largely distinct goals.

Jairzinho - please take a deep breath, slow down and listen, the mujahideen was formed in the 1980's by the CIA in order to counter the soviet threat in afghanistan - various muslim militants includijng osama bin laden were trained and armed by the US intelligence (CIA) to wage war on soviet troops who were trying to occupy afghanistan in order to expand their empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen#Afghanistan

Taliban loosely aims to make Pakistan & Afghanistan ruled according to Islamic Sharia law,they don't believe in education for girls etc. . . .while al qaeda aims at toppling the Saudi royalty as well as re-establishing the Islamic Caliphate of the Holy prophet Mohammed (pbuh)

the taliban  are a splinter group who broke away from the CIA funded mujahideen aka al qaeda and formed a govt  following the defeat of the soviets.  the taliban were on extremely good terms with george w bush and even negotiated a number of oil deals with his govt - the americans dont care what you do to your women or people as long as youre not interfering with their economic interests.

He probably pulled it off because of his nationality-Nigerian which wasn't before now under the radar,we are known to be hustlers not suicide bombers. But thanks to this misguided MTF,Nigerians will now be subjected to the same scrutiny as Iranians,Syrians & Pakistanis

he didnt pull anything off !! he's a patsy - he's being used by the US govt as an excuse to invade Yemen (this is now underway btw) and also possibly for a future invasion of nigeria in order to "secure" the oil wells  - they need an excuse to do so what better way to do it than to accuse nigeria of being a country of interest - sounds alarmingly similar to the weapons of mass destruction excuse used by the US in order to invade iraq

texazzpete:
1. Mutallab claimed from the start that he was trained and equipped by Al Qaeda in yemen
2. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the attack. The statement was posted online on several islamist websites. And lest you muppets think it was a CIA plot, the message also strongly exhorts other muslims to kill Westerners in the region as part of the war against the 'crusaders.

not true - this is a complete fabrication made up by the FBI whose investigation techniques have aroused suspicions amongst some eyewitnesses

Al Qaeda was not in existence in the 1980s, and has NEVER been funded by the CIA. Speak of things you know of, instead of showing off your ignorance.

you are not living on the same planet as everyone else - al qaeda is an offshoot of the mujahideen which was trained and funded by the CIA in order to liberate afghanistan from soviet occupation in the 1980's - the mujahideen was created by  Zbigniew Brzezinski (former national security advisor under jimmy carter)

I take available, verifiable data and then think creatively. YOu people on the other hand make up the base data or swallow unverifiable data as the base of all your assumptions. And that's idiocy.

you shouldnt be thinking creatively you should simply be looking at factual evidence which you clearly have not looked at.

Pifa:
I have only a few questions to ask you, then I’ll make a final comment and bow out of this debate with you. The list of villains from slave traders to colonial masters to capitalism to multinational oil exploiters is just too long for my little brain to tackle.

i always beleive in analysing a problem from its root cause as this provides a more comprehensive picture of why things are the way they are.

I was not aware that little Israel has been added to the list of monsters Nigeria must slay. What have they done to you guys?

Israel is not "little" as you say, it is a  satellite country of the US and it even has nuclear weapons,  it is one of nigeria's biggest arms suppliers and the israeli secret service is heavily involved in providing intelligence and training to the nigerian army.

If “multinationals such as shell bp, exxon mobil and chevron” had not come to Nigeria, how would you have exploited the oil resources of the ND?

nigeria has by now enough qualified technicians and engineers who should be more than capable of undertaking the excavation and drilling of oil in the niger delta region without western assistance, but even if we did not have the qualified manpower we should still be able to negotiate deals with foreign companies which minimises environmental damage and allows for oil revenues to be used for infrastracture projects in the oil producing regions.   

I thought Nigeria has had over 45 years to develop indigenes who could take over from these multinationals. Didn’t Nigeria form the NPC and later the NNPC to manage its oil wealth? Do you fault the villain multinationals that neither NPC nor NNPC had the vision to see 90% indigenous control by the year 2010? How many years has Nigeria had to control of its destiny?

its almost as if youve not read what i wrote above  - yes nigeria has had almost 50 years of so called independence but until you get rid of this corrupt oligarchy which is controlled from london and washington it isnt going to make any difference whether you form a company with 100% indigenous control because they will still be implementing the same corrupt practices.

This reminds me of something Donna Brazile, Al Gore’s campaign manager in the 2000 US presidential election, said of Gore, in the epilogue to his drama-laden loss to George Bush:

“He blamed everyone else but himself”

the above person you've quoted is a propagandist who is paid to lie and deceive the public about what is really going on.  Al Gore lost the elections because the real power brokers in america thought that he was too elitist and George Bush would be more likely to win blue collar america where majority of the votes needed to win were.   

One last question:
If you like Hugo Chavez's socialist system so much, what are you doing in capitalist UK? Certainly there are like-minded Nigerians like you living in Venezuela.

the problem with people like you is that you become extremely defensive when people point out the truth - do i not have the right to applaud and admire someone who is doing so much good for his people in the face of so much opposition from the west.  last time i checked the UK was a country which advocates freedom of speech as well as the US therefore if i exercise this right  why should it make people like you become defensive.

this is bogus nonsense - the US have fabricated this whole non event in order to attack Yemen, many people are unaware of what is really behind this but in a nutshell this is whats happening:

Yemen is a poor arab country who refused to support the US in the bombing of Iraq when Sadaam invaded Kuwait in 1991 as a result the US decided to isolate Yemen, Yemen also has a large population of disaffected saudis who fled saudi arabia for Yemen because they are now fed up of living under US controlled Saudi Arabia.

these saudi defectors are engaged in a civil war fighting to overthrow the Saudi backed Yemeni govt
they are also being helped by iranian backed militants.

the US has been looking for an excuse to intervene by using al qaeda militants to oust the iranian backed militants - i know its confusing but in a nutshell the americans are sending US trained al qaeda militants (al qaeda is not an islamic fundamentalist organisation but a US funded and trained militant organisation) to Yemen to oust the iranian backed militants which they are hoping will weaken Iran and make them more militarily vulnerable to possibly future attacks from the US.

the nigerian so called underwear bomber is a patsy - he was used by the US intelligence in order to provoke worldwide outrage and justify america's attack against Yemen - which is now underway - this is similar to how the weapons of mass destruction accusation was used against Sadam in order to justify america launching an all out war under false pretences against Iraq.

you are being lied to by the US and the UK govts and media dont buy it!!!

texazzpete:
Sane voices in the islamic world should be preaching against a Jihad that encourages the slaughter of innocent civillian non-combatants, not blaming every attack perpetrated by islamic extremists as a conspiracy between the US and the 'zionists'.

texazzpete where is your evidence to show that this attack is a terrorist attack perpetrated by islamic fundamentalists - are you not aware that the so called al qaeda was a CIA funded organisation which was formed in the 1980's in order to wage a war against the soviets who were encroaching into afghanistan, would it be a step too far to conclude that the US govt are still exerting some level of control over this group especially since they were responsible for creating it in the first place.

i think you are the one who is refusing to think outside the box, choosing instead to absorb and swallow the garbage being force fed to you by media whores like CNN, fox and the BBC.