₦airaland Forum

patrickmuf:
Telles is better than Mendy...

De Gea = Ederson...Watch City often before arguing or check the stats (Errors leading to goal)...

They're better at LB, I have acknowledged that but we are better at RCB, LCB and LB...

Greenwood is miles ahead of anything City Hass in their CF position...

Why are not you talking Rashford to Martial but rather Rashford/Martial to James? That's 3 players there...

He smartly Merged Rashford/Martial just to bring in James but it is Marhrez to Silva, as if their is an Anglo-Franco Player known as Anthony Rashford a.k.a. Marcus Martial. Where is Mahrez/Silva to Samuel Edozie?

eph12:
I don't know why this is too hard to understand. Pep doesn't exactly do like for like substitutions in some areas, why are we expecting same for our team?

They want Bruno 2X, so that when One Bruno gets injured or tired another Bruno comes in, they also want clones for all players same world class quality. 22 world class players.

TheLequte:
It’s as if you read to attack, not to understand.

So you’ll take Rashford and James at RWF over Silva and Foden? And if Rashford is already at LWF, how’s he playing at RWF.

You’re picking pieces to prove a narrative.

If you take a holistic look at the whole picture, your position will be different.

Having said that, City just about edges United in attack. It’s almost the same squad strength. And United also just about edges City in defense. It’s about the same thing. The midfield is where the gulf is. Cos City has quite a lot of players who can give a decent performance there. United don’t. That’s why there’s a gulf there.

Also, I don’t see you having a problem with United being slightly better than City in defense but look at you viciously fighting the same conclusion at the other end.

And also- United just bought Sancho and Varane to close the gap/get a little bit forward in attack and defense.

If you have a logical objection against the methods or want to rate some players differently, you can. You will still arrive at the same conclusions.

So all these analysis is the reason Ole will not effectively rotate his squad?

chidexxy007:
I feel he knows it but just doesn't want to admit because it will seem like giving Ole an already made excuse should he fail.

Everything is about Ole you know.

Everything is about Ole because he is satisfied with the squad and the squad is now loaded with excellent players and he is the manager. You wake up every day blaming Buhari for all your woes because he is the president. Why will Ole not give account of his stewardship for the embarrassment of talents at his disposal

odizeey:
They are just dwelling on DM.

Omo e weak me

Olesexuals can be shameless. Buy a DM now the problem will switch to Goal keeper. One have started complaining of Goal keeper now, may be thats the area of another complia. Fred that starts for Brazil ahead of Fabinho is rubbish and trash and cant match up to Rodri/Fernadinho(36 years), and for this reason there is a gulf in class between City and United

chidexxy007:
Lol

AWB to Dalot compared to Walker to Cancelo?

Shaw to Telles is worse that Zichenko to Mendy

We don't have Goalkeeper right now.

Mahrez to Silva is not much drop in quality compared to Rashford/Martial to James.
Maguire to Bailly = Dias to Ake

Whilst Greenwood is better, he is still young and quite inexperienced. Why is Pep hesitating to play Liam Delap more often?

So we are moving from Mahrez to Silva, but its Rashford/Martial to James, why are you combining them. Why not Mahrez/Silva to Edozie.all in the bid to trash the squad

patrickmuf:
He has picked that position to argue all day like that's the only area of concern...Ask him about the RCB, LB, CF and he goes mute...

Like I said, Olesexuals are shameless, last season they complained all season how we are bad in CB position and how we failed to buy Sancho, now Sancho and Varane are here, they jumped to CDM, get a CDM now they will switch to Goal keeper or they will switch to Assistant Manager. All in the bid manufacture an excuse

nitrogen:
Absolutely ridiculous. Just watch them come out later to say that they don’t care if Ole is the manager or not, acting like saints and neutrals, when infact (deep within themselves) they have no faith in the manager to the needful.

Just doesn’t make sense.

They are all sentimental olesexuals and nothing else, they should be bold and admit it kowai. No team need 22 world class players to win Caraboa Cup or Europa league. How can any sane person come out boldly to opine that this utd team lacks depth. A team with Cavani, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial in Attack with 3 (Shaw, Varane and Maguire) of the back four world class. May be Glazers have to give Ole the team of the Century with Delima, Zidane, Cafu, Carlos, Buffon, Messi, CR7, Vidic etc to win Caraboa cup

TheLequte:
Over the course of a season when players get injured, lose form or become fatigued, it will be obvious.

Remember when McTom (and Pogba) got injured and we had to make do with Pereira in midfield? Thank God those days are gone. We now have Fred

Over the course of the season Ole should use VDB and Matic to supplement. Last week Klopp used Ox and Milner, this week he changed it to Elliot and Henderson, next week expect to see Thiago and Curtis Jones or Fabinho. Why wont Ole use Fred and Mctoms this week, next week Mctoms and pogba, next VDB and Fred, another week Matic and Pogba thats how to keep the team ticking over the season thats where the managers acumen comes in. You are saying the quality will drop because the manager is sticking to a rule book and not tweeking anything week in week out. This is now a tired excuse are you saying for Ole to win anything he must have 22 world class players?

patrickmuf:
Lol He is trying to overrated the squad quality just so he doesn't give prop to Ole...Isn't that line a pointer that you're for Ole?

Kindly rate our defense, midfield and attack compared to City...

He wont he will run away. Our defence is clearly better than every team in the league even our attack. Liverpool is bleeping used Keita, Henderson and Elliott today, last week he used Milner and OX and Keita, next week might be Curtis Jones and Fabinho. That's a quality manager, how old is Milner, how old is Henderson, yet they are making rubbish excuses with 33 year old Matic. I haven't see Liverpool players complaining of depth, Robertson got injured Klopp brought in Tsimikas without moaning endlessly.

GloryIsaac:
Lmaooooo... mentioned earlier that this was the real root of all these claim about United and City being on par.

Didn’t take long to spout it.

If Afrodoc didn’t halt the claim of McTom being on par with Rodri, you guys would have ridden on that too. Continue twisting stuff to fit.

That doesn't render the fact that UTD squad is star studded untrue. Why do you keep hammering on a single position as if games are solely won on who has the better DM, you guys make it sound as if Fred and Mctoms are Sunday league standards. It is very ridiculous that you will quickly rush to downplay the quality of the team so as to shield the manager from upping his game. No team in the EPL has the quality of players utd have in defence. Utd attack is better than everyone else, Bruno is literally the best AM in the league with no question and a generational talent Sancho has just been added. What's with all these back and forth?

TheLequte:
Capitalce

The midfield is where the worry is.

There’s a reason no one is debating the gulf in quality between both teams in that department.

The gulf in class? A team with Bruno and Pogba at their peaks can match any team in terms of class, I know that Mctom and Fred are not up to notch but they are not absolute duds, they can do a job on their day. City might be considerably bettet in Midfield but their is no gulf in class.

TheLequte:
With the addition of Sancho I’m inclined to agree with your point. If we pick the best of the best, we’re better attack wise.

However if you think about quality squad depth, City just about edges United. And in the long run it’s quality squad depth that matters, not the starting XI.

Because if the best attacker of both teams gets injured, loses form or gets fatigued, we know who’s going to suffer more.

You are correct that quality depth comes in handy in the long run, however you are avoiding the appropriate use of the squad as factor. For eg Lampard had the squad but couldn't use it well until Tuchel came, same with Flick and Kovac

TheLequte:
City has the better quality squad depth attack wise but we’re not far behind.

Full stop.

Do you disagree with the methods I used?

City might have overall better depth, not too far. But in attack we are superior, even considering Bruno is an attcking threat of world class proportion

Oasis007:
Do we really need to arguing this matter at all? Man City Squad Depth is far superior to ours. This is a fact, very clear for everyone to see.

If the Argument is on Liverpool or Chelsea Squad Depth, it's debatable, but Man City? Make una dey calm down abegi.

You are just making a blanket comment without clear evidence to prove your point. Does Ole have enough quality to rotate around tight fixture? City's quality or depth doesn't invalidate that

TheLequte:
Their quality and contribution in the last 2 years. And this is relative to the contribution of the top player for each position (who gets a 10).



This is wrong.

The only department where we're better is in defense. - CB and LB. And they're not far behind us there.

The gap is huge in midfield - They have way better quality squad depth at DM, CM and AM

In attack, they have the better quality squad depth but we're closer. (Just like the CB position)

City have better Attackers than Man Utd? How? Nobody in City's attack is as good as Cavani. Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford are on Par with Mahrez, Sterling and Torress.

afrodoc2:
In my opinion by signing Varane and Sancho we have closed the gap but they are still ahead. The reason why that DM is so important is because the kind of star players we have in attacking midfield makes it crucial for us to have someone who can play CDM alone.

It is a matter of personal opinion which is why i don't want to get too involved in this debate. It depends on how highly you rate each player.
When i look at Mata, James, Lingard, Dalot, Telles that is a large number of players that are just not up to the level we need right now IMO.

In saying this i am not hoping to protect Amaka. Everybody knows he is our weakest link but that does not mean i still can't believe City's squad is stronger.

Doc, rhe main issue is not whether City has a better squad or not, the issue is Pep can confidently put in a player and you wont notice it, Klopp played Elliot today, Tuchel played Chalobah 2 consecutive big games, there mustn't be like for like in quality before a manager make changes, fitness issues and form needs to be considered. Solskjaer can decide not to use Mata, Lingard and James as much, yet have plantiful options to call upon. That Pep made changes is not just a function of City's depth, it has something to do with Pep's tactical acumen. Ole has Sancho, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Cavani in attacking positions, there is enough embarrassment of talents to rotate freely, even Pogba can even play LW. He cant be complaining of lack of depth.

Nobody is saying we dont need a CDM, but can Ole get a solid 10/15 EPL games from Matic? Well spaced out to match his fitness? Mctoms or Fred can play there afterrall he knew his team strength before going into the season, Nobody will tell me that Ole earnestly needed another CDM and glazers refused to sign. Moreover we mustn't have 22 world class players to compete.

Can he get Mata to start 3/4 EPL games against very low opposition during the tight schedules to rest Bruno and co? Go and check the way Fergie uses his players in a season, Oshea, Fabio Brown Cleverly, Gibson, etc get games at the right time to ease off Vidic/Rio/Carrick/Fletcher, I remember clearly during 2008 and 2008 seasons G.Neviile is almost done but Fergie still start him in games, like 1 game per month or even 1 in 2 months. Saha returned from long term injury in 2008, Fergie found a role for him despite having many options in his position. Even he Ole himself returned from Injury in 2006, Fergie used him very sparingly but crucially due to his fitness and age, he scored some important goals. Ole will stick to a rule book, because he cant tactically tweak things, this is not a dig on him. This Utd team is as good as any team in the world the question is can the team be aplied properly?

DeadPresidents:
Rashford is yet to take the Hippocratic oath sire.

Can't remember him having more than 2 major injury layoffs for us and he's been here 5 years already.

But I disagree with Mrviktor. Rashford is not a CF and can't lead the line consistently. Sure he can do a job there but he is not a dependable CF.

Rashford has the potential to become a World Class LWF like Son and I think consistency is key as he is already delivering world-class numbers albeit not with the requisite consistency needed to be truly world-class.

Son could be better than Rashford, but you need to check their stats for last 2 season to draw your conclusions. Rashford is a quality player

patrickmuf:
Doc, is DM the only position? While they might edge it, aren't we better in other areas?

They will avoid this question. So because City have a better DM than Man Utd just a single position, that means UTD as team lack quality?

chidexxy007:
The question is, why are we still clamouring for DM if we have McT that is better than one of the top 3 DMs in the league?

Nobody is saying Mctoms is better than Rodri. The question is does City have more depth by far than Man Utd? Its by all means a capital NO.

GloryIsaac:
From which Mata?

I said 5 games agaisnt the likes of Norwich and Bretford, thats not a big ask

patrickmuf:
Okay, I'll do...

Goal Keepers...

Manchester United - De Gea, Henderson, Heaton

City - Ederson, Steffen

Verdict - I think it's a par, although we have better quality sub...

Defense...

Right back options
Manchester United - Wan-Bissaka, Dalot

City - Walker, Cancelo...

Verdict - City is clearly better here...

RCB -

Manchester United - Varane, Lindelof

City - Stones, Dias

Verdict - Manchester United edges them out as Dias plays mostly from the left and Stones is not better than Varane...

LCB;

Manchester United - Maguire, Bailly

City - Dias, Laporte

Verdict - Nothing to choose from here, Maguire is always available and his solid much like Dias...Laporte is better option from the bench though.

Left back;

Manchester United - Shaw, Telles

City - Zichenko, Mendy

Verdict - Manchester United are clearly better here...

Defensive Midfield;

Manchester United - Matic, McTominay

City - Fernandinho, Rdodri

Verdict - City arguably edges things out here, Matic cancels out Fernandinho whilst Rodri and McTominay are good in their own ways depending on the style of play of each team...As I said, it's arguable but let's give it to City...

Center Midfield;

Manchester United - Pogba, Fred, VDB

City - Gundogan, Rodri, KDB

Verdict - Manchester United edges it here as they have the players better suited to the role...

AMF

Manchester United - Bruno, Pogba, VDB, Mata

Manchester City - KDB, Grealish, B. Silva, Gundogan, Foden

Verdict - Availability plays a crucial role here, Bruno is almost always available compared to KDB and his numbers speaks so, I'd look at the other options and think it's a par, Pogba is more than capable of slotting into the role too just as City have Grealish...

LWF

Manchester United - Rashford, Martial, Sancho, James

City - Sterling, Torres, Grealish, Foden

Verdict - Both sides have the quality and numbers thus it is difficult to choose which is superior...

RWF

Manchester United - Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford, James...

Manchester City - Mahrez, Silva, Sterling, Foden

Verdict - Again, both sides are loaded with quality and numbers here, difficult to choose...

CF

Manchester United - Cavani, Greenwood, Martial, Rashford

City - Jesus, Torres, Sterling

Verdict - Manchester United edges it here...

Combined team...

Goal keeper - De Gea/Ederson

LB - Wallker/Cancelo

RCB - Varane

LCB - Maguire/Dias

LB - Shaw

DM - Rodri

CM - Pogba

AM - Bruno/KDB

LWF - Rashford/Grealish

CF - Cavani

RWF - Sancho/Mahrez

Both teams are loaded with quality players, in my opinion, the difference swill come down to the ingenuity of the respective managers and how lucky they are with injuries...

If you think otherwise, let's read your take...

Cc: Afrodoc2 CapitalCee GloryIsaac melodyogonna nitrogen and others...

I dont think Pogba/Fred/VDB edges out Gundogan,/Rodri,/KDB in CM for me the reverse is the case.

City also better in GK dept because Ederson is better than all Utd keeper and GKs are rarely unavailable.

Every other thing i agree. Although your pairings did not clearly show how star studded man utd are in attack

Now banking on Bruno, Greenwood and Antonio this week is rubish

TheLequte:
There was a huge gulf until we signed Sancho and Varane.

The midfield is where we’re really thin compared to city.

Thing is they have quality attacking players who will deputize perfectly in midfield without the team suffering in attacking positions.

If we drop Bruno to CM- he can do a very good job there, he will be missed in AM.

If B. Silva drops to CM, Mahrez will handle LWF perfectly.

We dont need to drop Bruno to CM, there is Pogba, VDB and any of McFred, why will we need to drop our attacking players to CDM? Like you said now Varane and Sancho are in now to bridge the gap, City doesn't have a huge depth more than us, thats the truth. Infact we are more studded with quality in some positions

ChristoBam:
Bruno won't slow down if we find a way to manage him. He shouldn't play FA cup or league cup. And definitely shouldn't be playing 90 minutes every league game.

Thabk you. And a good manager will eke out 10/15 impactful EPL games from Matic, even 5/8 from Mata. Thats how quality managers use their squad, go and check Fergie teams

patrickmuf:
Pogba, Sancho, VDB can easily deputize for Bruno...It's up to Ole to find the right balance to cover for his absence...

If I ask you who replace KDB today, you'll struggle to tell me and if you do, was it a like for like replacement? No...Every player come with their own qualities, it's up to the manager to set up to bring out the best in his players...

They get aggressive whenever you point the obvious to them, same way Chelsea fans were defending Lampard, saying that Rudiger, Alonso, Werner, even Kante were all finished until Tuchel came.

A team with Varane, Maguire and Shaw as part of Back four tell me any team in the world with such quality?

TheLequte:
When are we ever going to learn not to sign players just for signing sake?

Hi Alexis Sanchez

Haaland is 20 we signed Sanchez at 29 not the same

patrickmuf:
Is you who claim they have a larger and better squad...We are only telling you it's not true...

No mind them. City doesn't have a larger squad the evidence is there. Last week they struggled without KDB, Pep is already crying due to the injury to KDB, all these Bruno fear is nonsense

GloryIsaac:
This isn’t about holding the fort. This is about winning the league.

You mustn't have World class players in all positions to win the league no team have WC players in all positions even City.

TheLequte:
No. You haven’t done that.

Now, rank all the players on one scale for all positions. For all positions.

For DM position now, the contenders will be Matic, VDB, Rodri, Fred, Fernandinho, etc.

A combined 50, if you may.

I dont get you but there is no massive gulf in class between.
Fernandinho/Rodri. And Matic/McFred.

Have you had a look at our attacking options? and their defence is not clearly better than ours, infact if we buy a good DM its finished

afrodoc2:
McTominay is not a DM at all so you are very wrong on this one. McTominay is a CM. This is not about trashing our players to make the manager look good. I no send the manager but that does not mean one should make emotional statements.

For team that dominates possession that recycling possession that you so easily glossed over is the most important role of a DM. Rodri as a DM is better than all our players bar Matic whose spirit is willing but body is weak.

Doc the argument was about depth. Whether or not Mctominay or whoever is a Quintessential DM or not the fact is he is a good option any day in whatever position he plays CM/DM. These City players are not Aliens.

TheLequte:
Do you know what will solve this argument Patrick?

List city’s defense, midfield and striker options. Do same for Man Utd. One player can appear in 2 positions. He’s an option.

Next, rank all of these players for all these positions.

This will make things way clearer.

I have done that already.

CBs.

City : Laporte, Dias, Stones and Ake.
Utd: Varane, Maguire, Lindelof and Bailly.

RB/LB.
City: Walker/Cancelo ; Zinchenko/Mendy.
Utd: . ; AWB/Dalot ; Shaw/Telles.

Midfield:
City: Gundogan, Rodri, Fernandinho, KDB, Foden and Bernado Silva.
Utd: Pogba, Bruno, Mctoms, Fred, Matic, VDB

Attack:
City: Jesus, Torres, Grealish, Mahrez, Sterling
Utd : Sancho, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Cavani and James.

Tell yourself the truth, look at that Backline can you confidently say Dias and Stones are better than Maguire and Varane. Their back ups are Ake and Laporte while we have Lindelof and Bailly.

In fullbacks we have Shaw and Telles while they have Mendy and Zinchenko. Then they are better here with Walker and Cancelo.

In Midfield: Bruno and Pogba can match KDB and Gundogan any day any time. We have VDB they have Foden, they have Fernandinho and Rodri we have Mcfred.

Our attack as you can see is Clearly better than their own, even not including the Bruno tax.