₦airaland Forum

Cavani and Sancho please Ole

nitrogen:
I talk am. We need 5 more world class signings before we can say we have a squad at City’s level. I saw it coming.

We just need to sell OT to get a ‘perfect’ squad.

We go dey alright las las

You never see anything. Las las na to buy a brand new 22 players go be the better excuse

lekkie073:
the one that brought trophies, some of una still castigated his style of football. So?

Who and who?

patrickmuf:
I watch almost all Manchester United games and that of other teams especially during weekends...How someone will sit down in his room and suggest that I want Manchester United to fail just to spite Ole is beyond me...

Hopefully we will beat Sutton today...

Once you present facts to them they go adhominen immediately or begin to tell you how you dont like a player or the manager. If I do not want utd to win, what will i be doing on this board?

lekkie073:
is united the first club that will spend 400m in three seasons and not win the league?

Every big club goes through a hiatus, a period when they will find it difficult to get it right. It might be a result of increased competition, money, fatigue or any other factor. The fact remains, a big club cannot remain competitive for ever except when there is no competition from its rivals. Fergie kept Liverpool in hiatus for decades. That coincided with the emergence of new football powerhouses like Chelsea and Mancity.
Now manutd has been in a hiatus since Fergie left (this is normal) and you expect one manager to come and fill his vacuum perfectly.
Fergie, as a personality won United at least 10 points per season. That's why some rival fans ascribe him the position of epl influencer. That is gone with him, more clubs are grooming themselves to be more competitive. In the midst of these, some manutd fans still fantasize about overnight success. Hmmmmm

Demanding for a single trophy after the spending for 4 years is not overnight sucess.

patrickmuf:
The supposed gap is negligible if Ole ups his game...Liverpool didn't have the depth of City when they won the league. I wonder why a perfectly negligible gap is now an issue when we are involved...

They make it sound as if anybody is wishing Ole to fail, go and look at how happy and bustling most of us were when Utd win matches. Every body is praying fervently for the team to win, and they could win, but when glaring deficiencies exist, shouldn't it be discussed or is a particular manager immune to criticism?

TheLequte:
No. It only shows the quality at the disposal of each manager. .

Ok i agree Ole lacks quality.

afrodoc2:
I don’t sleep on Nairaland. Anyway I have replied his question.

And you can’t choose for me which question or topic I should get involved in.

The guy made a statement that Rodri was not better than McTom and i decided to tackle it seeing that this was one the foundation stones of his claim that they didn’t have a better squad.

And I am happy to say he has now retracted that statement. Problem solved.

What I like is when people argue/debate with logic and facts and not make emotional and hyperbolic statements like the Rodri statement or for instance saying that Gio Reyna in 2020 was already better than Sancho

P.S And the debate was not about whether we have or lack quality. We have loads of quality. It is just my opinion that the City squad just has more.

You can have your opinion nobody is denying you that doc. However you are clearly wrong to say that the base of the argument is "NOT" whether we lack quality or not. Its either you did not see that or you decided to ignore it.

The genesis of the argument was where i made a comment of how pep made a lot of changes. Which could give him advantage at the long run ahead of others, meaning his co-contenders like Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea. Someone immediately retorted with a tired moaning of how Glazers do not back Ole, how we lack depth etc. My comment was crystal clear, it was never to undermine anyone rather to point out where Pep could have an advantage.

If you watch carefully i agreed with a number of people that Rodri was better than Mctoms in DM, and thats not the problem, I never even said Overall City do not have a better depth. My point has remained that Ole has the required depth to challenge. I went ahead to make my own recommendations in good faith. Whatever argument you are having with anybody regarding Rodri/Mctoms is clearly not the issue.

There was never an emotional comment i made here, I only pointed out Peps good usage of his squad. Can you Point out where i said Mctom is better than Rodri? My only comment about the DM position was that if 36 year old Fernandinho can be used, why not 33 years old Matic? and his use should be sparingly. You going to uproot an already well discussed topic about Reyna is simply to institute your nonexistent "emotional" fallacy ad hominen, and to me it is totally unnecessary.
My point is City may be better than Utd in depth but there is no gulf in class and ole has an embarrassment of talents to rotate.

BARAJ92:
This has been my number 1 problem with Ole is inability to rotate his team as at when due as cost man Utd.
James is bad but in games featuring this terrible Daniel James will have score 5 goals or more in the league, he is always a regular feature.

Matic could be useful at times even Mata can feature from the start in some games.

No way! How dare you? You have an agenda!!! You are looking for fault to discredit saint Ole. Glazers must find like for like in quality for Bruno, Shaw,Varane, Cavani, Pogba, Maguire, Rashford/Martial as a single player or else forget any trophy.

chidexxy007:
@bolded, they are both liabilities rn.

I don't agree DDG = Ederson

True @Greenwood.

I don't get.
In the past 2 seasons, I thought Martial have been Ole's first choice CF with Greenwood/James and Rashford on the wings?

Telles is a Liability?? I am done

Karleb:
Try to dey attach recipients to your mails abeg.

Omo!


The thing come be like Tom and Jerry.

The thing no shock you? For Ole to win caraboa cup, Bruno must be 2 so that there wont be any drop in Quality. And surprisingly he is droping from a certain hybrid player known as Marcus Martial (aka Anthony Rashford) to James, hence another trophiless season

GloryIsaac:
See the problem.

Is Doc Olesexual too?

No wahala sha.. Continue

Doc did nkt say that there is a gulf in class between City and Utd squads if he said that, I strongly disagree. He said Rodri is better than McTom. Apart from that there is no where City is considerably better

eph12:
We have Sancho that should be able to play that role very well now sef. I don't know what the problem is.

With Bruno out, we can switch formation and tactics and still get very good results against most teams in the EPL. This shouldn't be up for debate. What's this madness about DM sef?

DM is the new excuse, brace up for GK excuse soon

patrickmuf:
I have asked them if Liverpool had a better team than City when they won the league but up until this moment, no response from them...

Was Wijnaldum better than KDB?

Was Firmino better than Aguero?

Was Henderson better than Gundogan?

Was Fabinho better than Fernandinho?

Nobody will anwer these burning questions.

eph12:
If we've not bottled some semi finals and finals in recent years, you won't be saying this. And we all know why these matches were bottled

Shhhh! We bottled those games because their is a gulf in class between Fernandinho/Rodri and Mcfred

patrickmuf:
Telles is better than Mendy...

De Gea = Ederson...Watch City often before arguing or check the stats (Errors leading to goal)...

They're better at LB, I have acknowledged that but we are better at RCB, LCB and LB...

Greenwood is miles ahead of anything City Hass in their CF position...

Why are not you talking Rashford to Martial but rather Rashford/Martial to James? That's 3 players there...

He smartly Merged Rashford/Martial just to bring in James but it is Marhrez to Silva, as if their is an Anglo-Franco Player known as Anthony Rashford a.k.a. Marcus Martial. Where is Mahrez/Silva to Samuel Edozie?

eph12:
I don't know why this is too hard to understand. Pep doesn't exactly do like for like substitutions in some areas, why are we expecting same for our team?

They want Bruno 2X, so that when One Bruno gets injured or tired another Bruno comes in, they also want clones for all players same world class quality. 22 world class players.

TheLequte:
It’s as if you read to attack, not to understand.

So you’ll take Rashford and James at RWF over Silva and Foden? And if Rashford is already at LWF, how’s he playing at RWF.

You’re picking pieces to prove a narrative.

If you take a holistic look at the whole picture, your position will be different.

Having said that, City just about edges United in attack. It’s almost the same squad strength. And United also just about edges City in defense. It’s about the same thing. The midfield is where the gulf is. Cos City has quite a lot of players who can give a decent performance there. United don’t. That’s why there’s a gulf there.

Also, I don’t see you having a problem with United being slightly better than City in defense but look at you viciously fighting the same conclusion at the other end.

And also- United just bought Sancho and Varane to close the gap/get a little bit forward in attack and defense.

If you have a logical objection against the methods or want to rate some players differently, you can. You will still arrive at the same conclusions.

So all these analysis is the reason Ole will not effectively rotate his squad?

chidexxy007:
I feel he knows it but just doesn't want to admit because it will seem like giving Ole an already made excuse should he fail.

Everything is about Ole you know.

Everything is about Ole because he is satisfied with the squad and the squad is now loaded with excellent players and he is the manager. You wake up every day blaming Buhari for all your woes because he is the president. Why will Ole not give account of his stewardship for the embarrassment of talents at his disposal

odizeey:
They are just dwelling on DM.

Omo e weak me

Olesexuals can be shameless. Buy a DM now the problem will switch to Goal keeper. One have started complaining of Goal keeper now, may be thats the area of another complia. Fred that starts for Brazil ahead of Fabinho is rubbish and trash and cant match up to Rodri/Fernadinho(36 years), and for this reason there is a gulf in class between City and United

chidexxy007:
Lol

AWB to Dalot compared to Walker to Cancelo?

Shaw to Telles is worse that Zichenko to Mendy

We don't have Goalkeeper right now.

Mahrez to Silva is not much drop in quality compared to Rashford/Martial to James.
Maguire to Bailly = Dias to Ake

Whilst Greenwood is better, he is still young and quite inexperienced. Why is Pep hesitating to play Liam Delap more often?

So we are moving from Mahrez to Silva, but its Rashford/Martial to James, why are you combining them. Why not Mahrez/Silva to Edozie.all in the bid to trash the squad

patrickmuf:
He has picked that position to argue all day like that's the only area of concern...Ask him about the RCB, LB, CF and he goes mute...

Like I said, Olesexuals are shameless, last season they complained all season how we are bad in CB position and how we failed to buy Sancho, now Sancho and Varane are here, they jumped to CDM, get a CDM now they will switch to Goal keeper or they will switch to Assistant Manager. All in the bid manufacture an excuse

nitrogen:
Absolutely ridiculous. Just watch them come out later to say that they don’t care if Ole is the manager or not, acting like saints and neutrals, when infact (deep within themselves) they have no faith in the manager to the needful.

Just doesn’t make sense.

They are all sentimental olesexuals and nothing else, they should be bold and admit it kowai. No team need 22 world class players to win Caraboa Cup or Europa league. How can any sane person come out boldly to opine that this utd team lacks depth. A team with Cavani, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial in Attack with 3 (Shaw, Varane and Maguire) of the back four world class. May be Glazers have to give Ole the team of the Century with Delima, Zidane, Cafu, Carlos, Buffon, Messi, CR7, Vidic etc to win Caraboa cup

TheLequte:
Over the course of a season when players get injured, lose form or become fatigued, it will be obvious.

Remember when McTom (and Pogba) got injured and we had to make do with Pereira in midfield? Thank God those days are gone. We now have Fred

Over the course of the season Ole should use VDB and Matic to supplement. Last week Klopp used Ox and Milner, this week he changed it to Elliot and Henderson, next week expect to see Thiago and Curtis Jones or Fabinho. Why wont Ole use Fred and Mctoms this week, next week Mctoms and pogba, next VDB and Fred, another week Matic and Pogba thats how to keep the team ticking over the season thats where the managers acumen comes in. You are saying the quality will drop because the manager is sticking to a rule book and not tweeking anything week in week out. This is now a tired excuse are you saying for Ole to win anything he must have 22 world class players?

patrickmuf:
Lol He is trying to overrated the squad quality just so he doesn't give prop to Ole...Isn't that line a pointer that you're for Ole?

Kindly rate our defense, midfield and attack compared to City...

He wont he will run away. Our defence is clearly better than every team in the league even our attack. Liverpool is bleeping used Keita, Henderson and Elliott today, last week he used Milner and OX and Keita, next week might be Curtis Jones and Fabinho. That's a quality manager, how old is Milner, how old is Henderson, yet they are making rubbish excuses with 33 year old Matic. I haven't see Liverpool players complaining of depth, Robertson got injured Klopp brought in Tsimikas without moaning endlessly.

GloryIsaac:
Lmaooooo... mentioned earlier that this was the real root of all these claim about United and City being on par.

Didn’t take long to spout it.

If Afrodoc didn’t halt the claim of McTom being on par with Rodri, you guys would have ridden on that too. Continue twisting stuff to fit.

That doesn't render the fact that UTD squad is star studded untrue. Why do you keep hammering on a single position as if games are solely won on who has the better DM, you guys make it sound as if Fred and Mctoms are Sunday league standards. It is very ridiculous that you will quickly rush to downplay the quality of the team so as to shield the manager from upping his game. No team in the EPL has the quality of players utd have in defence. Utd attack is better than everyone else, Bruno is literally the best AM in the league with no question and a generational talent Sancho has just been added. What's with all these back and forth?

TheLequte:
Capitalce

The midfield is where the worry is.

There’s a reason no one is debating the gulf in quality between both teams in that department.

The gulf in class? A team with Bruno and Pogba at their peaks can match any team in terms of class, I know that Mctom and Fred are not up to notch but they are not absolute duds, they can do a job on their day. City might be considerably bettet in Midfield but their is no gulf in class.

TheLequte:
With the addition of Sancho I’m inclined to agree with your point. If we pick the best of the best, we’re better attack wise.

However if you think about quality squad depth, City just about edges United. And in the long run it’s quality squad depth that matters, not the starting XI.

Because if the best attacker of both teams gets injured, loses form or gets fatigued, we know who’s going to suffer more.

You are correct that quality depth comes in handy in the long run, however you are avoiding the appropriate use of the squad as factor. For eg Lampard had the squad but couldn't use it well until Tuchel came, same with Flick and Kovac

TheLequte:
City has the better quality squad depth attack wise but we’re not far behind.

Full stop.

Do you disagree with the methods I used?

City might have overall better depth, not too far. But in attack we are superior, even considering Bruno is an attcking threat of world class proportion

Oasis007:
Do we really need to arguing this matter at all? Man City Squad Depth is far superior to ours. This is a fact, very clear for everyone to see.

If the Argument is on Liverpool or Chelsea Squad Depth, it's debatable, but Man City? Make una dey calm down abegi.

You are just making a blanket comment without clear evidence to prove your point. Does Ole have enough quality to rotate around tight fixture? City's quality or depth doesn't invalidate that

TheLequte:
Their quality and contribution in the last 2 years. And this is relative to the contribution of the top player for each position (who gets a 10).



This is wrong.

The only department where we're better is in defense. - CB and LB. And they're not far behind us there.

The gap is huge in midfield - They have way better quality squad depth at DM, CM and AM

In attack, they have the better quality squad depth but we're closer. (Just like the CB position)

City have better Attackers than Man Utd? How? Nobody in City's attack is as good as Cavani. Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford are on Par with Mahrez, Sterling and Torress.

afrodoc2:
In my opinion by signing Varane and Sancho we have closed the gap but they are still ahead. The reason why that DM is so important is because the kind of star players we have in attacking midfield makes it crucial for us to have someone who can play CDM alone.

It is a matter of personal opinion which is why i don't want to get too involved in this debate. It depends on how highly you rate each player.
When i look at Mata, James, Lingard, Dalot, Telles that is a large number of players that are just not up to the level we need right now IMO.

In saying this i am not hoping to protect Amaka. Everybody knows he is our weakest link but that does not mean i still can't believe City's squad is stronger.

Doc, rhe main issue is not whether City has a better squad or not, the issue is Pep can confidently put in a player and you wont notice it, Klopp played Elliot today, Tuchel played Chalobah 2 consecutive big games, there mustn't be like for like in quality before a manager make changes, fitness issues and form needs to be considered. Solskjaer can decide not to use Mata, Lingard and James as much, yet have plantiful options to call upon. That Pep made changes is not just a function of City's depth, it has something to do with Pep's tactical acumen. Ole has Sancho, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Cavani in attacking positions, there is enough embarrassment of talents to rotate freely, even Pogba can even play LW. He cant be complaining of lack of depth.

Nobody is saying we dont need a CDM, but can Ole get a solid 10/15 EPL games from Matic? Well spaced out to match his fitness? Mctoms or Fred can play there afterrall he knew his team strength before going into the season, Nobody will tell me that Ole earnestly needed another CDM and glazers refused to sign. Moreover we mustn't have 22 world class players to compete.

Can he get Mata to start 3/4 EPL games against very low opposition during the tight schedules to rest Bruno and co? Go and check the way Fergie uses his players in a season, Oshea, Fabio Brown Cleverly, Gibson, etc get games at the right time to ease off Vidic/Rio/Carrick/Fletcher, I remember clearly during 2008 and 2008 seasons G.Neviile is almost done but Fergie still start him in games, like 1 game per month or even 1 in 2 months. Saha returned from long term injury in 2008, Fergie found a role for him despite having many options in his position. Even he Ole himself returned from Injury in 2006, Fergie used him very sparingly but crucially due to his fitness and age, he scored some important goals. Ole will stick to a rule book, because he cant tactically tweak things, this is not a dig on him. This Utd team is as good as any team in the world the question is can the team be aplied properly?