₦airaland Forum

Fearlesschicken, have you visited sites where Christian testimonies are published? It may help going through them. Here are some links:

www.insightsofgod.com

www.divinerevelations.info

www.precious-testimonies.com

We Christians do not only draw inspiration from the Bible but also from the testimonies of others of God's doings.

You may also want to download the book, The Final Frontier. You will find the download link at the first link above. You may already know them but I just thought to share them with you.

Donbryan:
Amen and thanks for this wonderful words.

You're welcome.

An2elect2:
If she died as the self righteous catholic nun that she was, without the knowledge of the Lord Jesus and His righteousness, which is likely, she is most assuredly a hell candidate . Sad but true.

You think? You only knew her from observation or tales, God knew her heart and soul. Don't be shocked when you discover she is resting in heaven for all eternity.

Should Pastor Enoch Adeboye or Pastor Lazarus Muoka die today, many will say they are in heaven but the sad truth is we may never know until the end of time. Judging only from the appearance and character is a very great source of error, sometimes the error becomes fatal.

btoks:
On earth, the only way we can know for sure whether one made heaven is when they have been declared as such by the catholic church in its authority to bind and loose.

Mother Theresa is one likely to have made heaven as she is currently in the process of being declared as such while a miracle through her intercession is sought/investigated.
The declaration process involves lengthy investigations into the person which could take decades/centuries.

This is false doctrine. The canonization of a person does not guarantee their eternal habitation. It is just a man-made act of bestowing honour on that person. Only God knows those who made heaven and those who didn't just as well as the people to whom He reveals the eternal habitation of those who have departed this life.

Op, what has the question of mother Theresa making heaven or not got to do with propagating the Gospel of Christ? I'm yet to see any relationship between both.

There is nothing too hard for God. You have tried to change with your strength but find it near impossible. This time do it with the strength that God gives. First, you must be a born again. Give your life to Christ if you haven't done that. Next, ask Him for help to overcome then be determined to quit drinking. Hebrews 4:6 says, "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."
Avoid the bottle at all costs. Cut off every association that takes you back to drinking. Be disciplined.
The change may not happen overnight but by doing these, each day you will be taking heavy decisive steps at a time away from that destructive habit. In the end you will overcome. You'll overcome because God's strength will be behind all your efforts.
I am a living testimony of God's ability to save from destructive habits that we are helpless to overcome on our own. May God's righteous hand uphold you.

shoyemiayodeji:
Op u forgot to write inspired by open heavens and acknowledged the original author

I expected him to do that but his omission is disappointing.

What is not yours can never be yours even if it is in your possession. Move on. That's life for you.

Lack of power supply is at the root of it all.

Lanre747:
Thanks for responding sir. I will try and gather my thoughts and summarise them soon. In the meantime, perhaps you can help solve two things that puzzle me:

1) The New Testament speaks of Christ reigning in the Kingdom to come.
The prophet Ezekiel says in 37:24
"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Either David shall rule over us, or Christ. I'm confused.

While this question is not addressed to me, let me briefly answer it pending MrPresident1's reply.

You don't need to be confused. David's reign was physical and temporal but Christ's reign is eternal. God had made a promise to David that his descendants will always sit on the throne of Israel, therefore, by His eternal plan Christ came through the lineage of David. The prophet Isaiah said:

"There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots." Isaiah 11:1

"And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious." Isaiah 11:10

In Romans 15:12, apostle Paul connects Jesus Christ with the scriptures in Isaiah 11:10.

In the book of Luke 1:32-33, the angel of the Lord told Mary, "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."

What this means is that Christ, not David, shall have the crown and scepter to rule His people forever. The use of David's name in the book of Ezekiel is only symbolic and futuristic of the reign of Jesus Christ.

2) The New Testament says Jesus is Gods only begotten son
The Most High says in Exodus 4:22 "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:"

I shall briefly explain this verse. God had told Abraham he would be a father of many nations, and to seal this promise God told him that Sarah would bear a child for him. Isaac was born as a child of promise. He had two children - Esau, the first son, and Jacob, the second son. Even before their birth, God had chosen Jacob for the fulfillment of His promise to Abraham. On a certain day, Esau sold his birth right to Jacob. This made Jacob the first son. After he wrestled with an angel all night, his name was changed to Israel.

It is not as if Isaac is not the first son, but God does not choose according to man's thinking. He does things according to His plan and promise. Israel would be God's chosen nation to spread the knowledge of God, the light of God to all the earth. Israel is God's first born son by promise, and not by right.

In church, people pray to Jesus often. I begin to wonder, have they put him in the place of the Most High. They will say "no", because he is indeed the most high. Yet, Christ did not claim to be the Most High. I'm confused brother!

Jesus is the Most High. If you see Jesus, you have seen the Father. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. However, one of the qualities of Christ is humility. Philippians 2:5-8

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross."

Hope you understand...

davien:
No need to be running around in circles and chasing your tails....the very definition of facts define them as verifiable and not mysteries.

Davien, for the sake of the Op, I shall not give you details that counter your definition of fact. However, I shall not leave you without a hint, at least to disabuse you of your opinion. If you think that definition of fact you put up there is the only acceptable definition of fact, then you're more mistaken than I thought. In fact, less informed. Do your homework.

I planned to give you a detailed list of definitions of fact with their respective sources, but for the sake of the Op, her pursuit for truth, this argument plunging her further into confusion, I decided to abandon the task and let these words mark the end of this discussion.

fearlesschicken:
Wow!!

Can't believe my eyes! 3 pages for a simple question? Mehn I should have know this would happen introducing christians and atheist on the thread

Seriously though I enjoyed reading through the arguments and all, but I feel more lost than I was before, so many conflicting ideas in this my brain now

I appreciate all your efforts and comments though...it is a path that I have to decide on my own.

Fearlesschicken, am sorry if I compounded your confusion with the argument. Truly sorry.

I trust the Lord to lead you in the right path. He knows your heart, your love for Him, and your doubt and He loves you regardless. That's a fact.

Ask Him to help you and He will send help to you.

Thoniameek:
You really feel the need to say something about anything I put up here.... Even when response is not compulsory.

I'm lost..... It really gives me headache having unintelligent arguments or conversations

I better be going

Lol @

Even when response is not compulsory.

davien:
If it's the truth then you should be able to quote the "facts" she's been saying that hasn't been disproved, rendered useless by a scientific explanation or can be tested?

Of course, facts. The facts of a matter. The fact that God created the universe and the planets with everything in them, the fact that the Word of God is true and accurate, the fact that science cannot offer conclusive explanation for events beyond its scope of investigation, the fact that God knows the end from the beginning, the fact that the evidence of the existence of God cannot be scientifically determined, but has been known by eye-witnesses and various physical manifestations that defy logical explanation...they are facts...even science is mystified and cannot deny these occurrences. The best explanation that science can offer, for lack of physical determination, is that these occurrences are products of the imagination. Lol.

When facts are scientifically unidentifiable, untestable, not subject to any mathematical, chemical, or biological experimentation, then they become a mystery. They become false for the failure of science to provide the certificate of evidence to enable them to be accepted as reality by mankind.

davien:
Here you go

Did you notice she said and I quote:

God put everything in place

Where have I said science is the one taking the stance on her theology or that it answers questions about disease causing organisms differently?...nice straw man attempt.

May I remind you

I asked questions that the theology purports in line with what she believes...she also asked what science has to say and I gave her the answer...no bias there now is there?

Have you been making baseless argument all this while?

plaetton:
Lol.
Well, if you failed to get the point, then perhaps it is your comprehension skills that is to be found wanting.
Perhaps you try and apply the Thoniameek's hermeneutical rules for proper context.

Or perhaps, your writing skills need refining. Whatever point you imagined you made in that post, you buried it in a heap of verbiage. That's the reason it is lost to any reader.

Thoniameek:
O

You're in impossible! I can't go in circles with you anymore.......

I have come to tha conclusion that having a meaningful argument with you it literally impossible

Have tried out all the findings of science and found it to be true? Science has found answers to a lot of things you know; wait for them to answer all those other questions you have for me concerning my God.

This is lovely. You've finally seen why I call atheists confused and ignorant people. Even when faced with facts they cannot disprove, they look for a way to persist in their ignorance. I'm not insulting them in any way but this is the plain truth.

davien:
Thoniameek wants to imply that it's not gods design but a design of nature for going against it...

Please quote the post where she implied that

Did I say it was relevant for the bacteria discussion or among other things the verse also dictates?

Then cut out extraneous material from your argument. They only serve to make your thoughts appear jumbled and rambling.

* Yawn
I asked questions that the theology purports in line with what she believes...she also asked what science has to say and I gave her the answer...no bias there now is there?

Fair enough. In other words, science would rather believe in the existence of an evil God responsible for all the disasters on earth than in a compassionate and creative God who designed the universe. No bias there, my friend. I understand that science and her followers are more confused by the day.

Thoniameek:
No wonder I couldn't find any other response to his write up.....
I couldn't make anything of it!

Lol. It doesn't take a professional eye to identify garbage.

davien:
Is faith without evidence the pathway to truth?

In a court, can a jury prosecute someone on faith and it'll be a just and valid verdict?

The Jury can reach a verdict on the testimony of an eye-witness when physical evidence is impossible, isn't it? Is that not faith?

davien:
So disease causing viruses and bacteria create themselves?

And I believe Isaiah 45:7 in the bible makes it clear that your god creates evil...

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Who has said anything to the contrary?

True, it also has verses that instruct you to stone blashemers to death(24:14)

How is this verse relevant in the 'bacteria' discussion?

The earth isn't 50 billion years but I'm happy you recognized that it's not thousands of years as alleged by some fanatical christian groups....
Then that would mean god knew it would break in the first place wouldn't it?

It couldn't be an unintended consequence as god is the orchestrator of the consequences of sin(i.e death by old age,virus,bacteria,etc)...Afterall, nothing new can ever happen for a being that already knows how everything will, can, does and have happened a.k.a omniscient.

I see. When it comes to the creation of the universe and mankind, big bang and evolution take the credit. When it comes to the creation of death, war, starvation, and diseases God takes the blame. Wonderful.

plaetton:
Lol.
So god inspired stone-age scribes with your 8 rules of hermeneutical studies , and then expected same stone-age readers of the bible to use same rules to understand the bible?

Hhhhmm. I must have missed the lesson on hermeneutical rules at sunday school.

It's funny, because just yesterday, another christian was telling that I needed the holy spiri spiri to understand the bible in proper context.

Or, Maybe hermeneutical rules is perhaps the Greek or Hebrew translation of Holy spiri spiri.

Verbosity of language. I have tried very hard to extract your point, at least a point, in this text but it is proves abortive owing to the verbosity of language.

What do you think Thoniameek?

Gosh!!
There is nothing I will not hear from christotards in this religilous section.

Lol. A Christian by any other name is still a Christian.

plaetton:
The wonders of sundayschool.

As opposed to the wonders of ignorance parading itself as intelligence. The former is much better.

musKeeto:
There is no point having this conversation with you. You possess the Truth of the Universe. Damn the world and all other differing ideologies.

When you know the truth, you will naturally damn lies in all their diversity or, at best, study them for the sake of curiosity. Truth makes the difference.

musKeeto:
You are the one making the claims. Not me. The ipad in your hands is not evidence that Steve Jobs lives.

There are many pieces of evidence of God. Not as the world demands, nevertheless, physical manifestations of God's Presence, existence, power and authority.

He is not a man that has a date of birth, human parents, is subject to the physical laws of creation, has fingerprints, lives in a house of brick or wood, hunts animals for food, and the rest of actions and characteristics that define man. God is not a man, therefore you cannot provide a physical evidence of His existence the way you identify man.

However, the non-scientific evidence of His Presence leaves one without a doubt of His eternal existence. We Christians don't serve a God of wood or stone, neither do we serve a myth. God is real, more real than the world around you. He makes His Presence felt, known, seen as He chooses. To begin, the Word of God is more than just pages of history. It is alive and ever dependable as the first time it was written. This is because God is always watching His Word to fulfill it. That is why it never stales or decays 50 billion plus years from today. It's supernatural. The evidence of God begins from His Word into our daily lives. He is unseen but His acts are seen, acts that science finds very very difficult to explain. He created science. How can science explain Him? Very impossible. The Bible is true, whether you accept it or not. Another evidence is the fact that no other gods in the universe can do what God does. God is the only Person known to do what defies understanding both in the past and in the present. No other god compares. Jesus is the God of gods, the God of creation, and the God of science.

musKeeto:
Is a Muslim a witch or Satanist? I ask because the Muslim God has different rules from the Christian God. Do you consider yourself a saint? By Muslim standards, believing God has a son through a virgin is blasphemy.

The OP talked about belief in the existence of God as revealed in the Bible. Thoniameek's post was as a result of that stated belief, as well as her reference to witches and wizards. Muslim Allah does not come into play here.

musKeeto:
You've failed to show how. You are the one making baseless comparisons.


I disagree. It testifies of God's absence. There is not an iota of evidence of God or any other celestial being. There is evidence for a great ball of fire which provides energy. We call it the sun. Can you provide any evidence for your God?

What kind of evidence of God are you talking about? An autobiography of God, His one-on-one interview with Christiane Amanpour, a selfie of God, His birth certificate, a patent claim of His invention of the world, His DNA results, companies or industries built by Him, a video of Him creating the universe, what form of evidence do you have in mind?

Shows how little you know about evolution. Evolution doesn't say man was created neither does it address how life/consciousness originated. Evolution is not an atheistic argument, it is a scientific one. If you have a problem with the theory of evolution, address your questions to the proper people. There are Christians and atheists on this board who are more knowledgeable than me on such topics. NOTE that even if evolution is discredited years from now, it still wouldn't be evidence for God.

Since you have admitted your limited knowledge of evolution, I will put it aside.

Through the mystery of faith .

Faith? How does that rationalize the existence of Zeus?

musKeeto:
Smh. Read the post I quoted earlier from thoniameek. She essentially said witches and wizards exist to show us the consequences of choosing to do wrong.

She said

There're witches and there're wizards and demons and satan and his cohorts... Better believe that!

Why are they there? To make you understand what choice is all about, what choosing and choosing right is.....

What she meant by this is that people have taken paths, dark, diabolic paths that are in violation of the commandments of God by their exercise of choice. Everything is about choice. Being a saint or a satanist boils down to choice of who to serve.

Btw, I'm still hoping for an answer to my earlier question.

The bacteria question? I have given an answer to that already.

musKeeto:
I'm sure you know better. Language doesn't tell you the only acceptable way of showing respect is the English form "Good morning". How you could compare a dictionary that makes no claims about any existential beings with a book that does is beyond belief. Stop being disingenuous.

Exactly why your reasoning falls flat on its face. About the existence of supernatural beings, even the universe testifies of God's existence. How did the creation of man come about? Evolution? If evolution, then tell me why evolution has not adhered to the scientific principles of reliability, predictability, being testable and repeatable?

I haven't made any claims to how the universe was made. I don't know, no one knows. All we can do is speculate. I believe Zeus more likely created the Universe. HE was here before Yahweh anyways.

And don't apply common sense to the trinity. Bullshit can never be rationalized logically.

How can you rationalize Zeus logically?

musKeeto:
Like God created bacteria and viruses so that we will choose health. Abi?

This post doesn't make sense. Bacteria and viruses are not objects of choice or freewill in pleasing God or disobeying Him. They are not objects or actions of right or wrong from which a choice must be made.

musKeeto:
2015. A time of great knowledge and technological growth. And we still take texts that were written, edited, copied,twisted falsified, had so many versions created serious. A book that wasn't written in Africa, isn't about Africa and wasn't written for Africans.

Have fun in your small world. I see no Juju phones or Juju technological devices. Juju, witches, wizards, the world moves on. Our stories don't trouble them, they trouble us.

An amazing universe we live in and the lens by which you detect reality tells you it was all created by the words of an invisible being. who was the son of a Jewish carpenter.

The Oxford English dictionary has been edited, copied, twisted, falsified, had so many versions created. It is a book that wasn't written in Africa, isn't about Africa and wasn't written for Africans yet you read it religiously.

Glad you know the universe is amazing. At least, you know it didn't come from nothing. Yes, Jesus created the universe and its planets. He also created the carpenter. How can He then be fathered by someone whom He created? This is common sense.

Oh now I get it. Good job.