₦airaland Forum

fergie001:
It was an Executive Bill but strangely no news anywhere whether he signed or not, however, it is public knowledge both Houses passed same.

Being an executive bill, it is safe to assume it has been signed into law.

Dogalmighty17:
What kind of insanely stupid take is this? Watertight electoral system that always leads to the loser being sworn into office?

Unfortunately there is no tablet that can cure your stoooooop1dity.

The only thing I want to say here is that I have always said it on Nairaland that we have one of the most watertight electoral systems in the world and you cannot rig in Nigeria without leaving evidence. So stop bashing INEC. If you were truly rigged there will be evidence. Either via the EC8 forms of which every party agent and the police have a copy of the original or BVAS.

Anyone who loses and election and cannot prove it in court is lying. Anyone telling you about irev is lying. INEC does not use IREV to count votes.


If you cannot prove you won in court it is because you actually lost. I keep saying there is a reason Atiku and Obi disrupted the announcement before they finished and made no effort to prove rigging in court instead attempting to disqualify…..because they have live situation rooms and are collaring results even before INECso even before the INEC announcements they knew they lost!


The reason politicians go to court even when they know they lost is because if they admit they lost they may lose the confidence and support of their gullible supporters to win the next election. So they go to court to sustain the impression they were rigged and when they lose they lambast the judiciary plus the need to remain in the news and not be forgotten.


EDIT: Note to the many imb3ciles that have been mentioning me with their usual uneducated village 1d1ot comments, I did not say there is no rigging but you cannot rig in Nigeria without leaving evidence of the rigging.

If you over vote BVAS will catch you, if you alter result sheets, all
Parties and the police have copies of the original. If you snatch ballot boxes or otherwise disrupt elections and the votes in that Pu will make a difference the election will be held again amid tight security.

fergie001:
Alright... The dates!

https://punchng.com/reps-pass-police-act-amendment-bill/

https://www.icirnigeria.org/senate-passes-police-act-amendment-bill-to-keep-egbetokun-in-office/

https://www.tvcnews.tv/2024/07/senate-passes-police-act-amendment-enforces-term-for-igp/

Ok. Acknowledged. This is the kind of fact based engagement I like on Nairaland.

You are right! I stand corrected.

Funny though that the sponsor of the original bill will spend almost an hour talking about the bill and fails to mention that the age issue has been resolved with a subsequent amendment. I am assuming since the bill was sent by Tinubu himself, it is safe to presume he has signed it.

fergie001:
I have a hard copy of the Police Act 2020 signed by Buhari.

This contentious one was brought to the NASS on July 23 last year and passed in less than one week. It specifically only amended the tenureship of the IGP.

This clause was added as Clause 18(8A
Notwithstanding the provisions of sub-section ( of this section, any person appointed to the office of Inspector-General of Police shall remain in office until the end of the term stipulated in the letter of appointment in line with the provisions of Section 7(6) of this Act.”

Oga I didn’t ask you for the one passed in 2020. I already posted that in a different thread at 12:28pm well before this thread came to life if you go through my post history.


What I asked you for is to support your claim that the police act 2020 was amended and this clause 8A inserted ….simple!

I will even take a newspaper headline stating it was amended.

PS: I am not having a go at you. I genuinely want to know.

fergie001:
Don't follow headlines, read the judgement proper:
Justice James Omotosho dismissed this suit because of lack of jurisdiction.

He held inter alia; that the plaintiff has no jurisdiction.
The Supreme Court in a list of judgements has held that:
Any judgement no matter how finely delivered comes to nought if the Court does not have jurisdiction.

Justice Omotosho had expanded his judgement because it is the Court of first instance in this matter and the issue of Public Interest Litigation has always been contentious, that is to say, could go either ways.

However the meat and purport of this judgement is that the Court held Idoko had no jurisdiction, called him a meddlesome interloper, a busybody, an activist who has not showed how his special nterest on this matter overrides the Public Interests.

I read the whole story. I provided the headline does not mean I didn’t read the article. I provided the headline because I know most Nairalanders will not read the story if I just provided the link. I am not your typical sloppy and poorly educated Nairalander. When we went to school if you make claims without evidence you get punished or beaten so academically we were trained only to make assertions or submissions we can back up. This is why if you go through my posts I often provide the evidence without being asked. He dismissed the case for lack of jurisdiction but went on to say the 4yr term is sacrosanct

I am still waiting for your evidence of this amended section 8A

fergie001:
This was what Buhari signed.....

Section 7(6):
The person appointed to the Office of Inspector-General of Police shall hold office for four years subject to the provisions of Clause 18(8 of this Bill.

What does Clause 18(8 say;
Every Police Officer shall in recruitment or appointment serve in the Nigeria Police Force for a period of 35 years or until he attains the age of 60 years, whichever is earlier;


So in 2023 after the appointment of Egbetokun, it was hurriedly passed in one week by the Senate! Another clause 18(8A) was added... So the contentious aspect was passed after Egbetokun was appointed IGP.

Where is the evidence of this? I am not aware of any amendment. All the police acts 2020 I have viewed are the original one passed in 2020. The architect of the bill Yusuf Gagdi was on channels and spoke extensively and passionately on the bill. If there was an amendment I am sure he would have mentioned it. He didn’t!

I am not denying they wanted to amend it but like I said one a judge has interpreted Afis repentance in a law it become law so no need to amend. Therefore please provide a source to this amended law.

I have searched and I cannnot find any such amendment. Please feel free to point me in the direction of a police act as amended that has this section 8A.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHdqDOAMQY?si=0UfbL6WehtOWBLVp

Bobloco:
Yes, but amended last year to enable the IG to remain in office for four years

https://dailypost.ng/2024/07/23/tinubu-asks-reps-to-amend-police-act-over-igps-tenure/

Either way justice Omotosho had already delivered judgement in 2023 stating that the 4 year term is sacrosanct and overrides retirement age for the IGP. As the interpreters of the law unless a superior courts says otherwise. There is no need to amend the law because interpretation of the great area has been delivered.

Furthermore you provided no evidence that it was actually amended.

I am no lawyer but once as judge has given judgement on the interpretation there is no need for amendment and to the best of my knowledge there was no amendment. Probabaly another set of ignorant people. Who were not aware that a judge had delivered judgement on the matter in 2023 and laid it to rest.

Bobloco:
This particular amendment was done last year to enable the IG to remain in office for four years

fergie001:
You are wrong.....

No it wasn’t. The act was signed into law by Buhari in sept 2020. The clue is in the name of the law police act 2020


We have an epidemic of really dull people. All you had to do was google it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHdqDOAMQY?si=0UfbL6WehtOWBLVp

RaySimran:
Why was the Police Act tweaked solely to elongate Egbotekun tenor?

Try and use your brain before you comment. When was the law enacted (sep 2020) when did Egbetokun become IG (Oct 2023)

Typicool8:
The reason why I say the north keeps dragging the rest of the country backwards.

Did one state in the SS not spend a huge sum to build a church?

Please note I don’t support the use of public funds for either!

Kewekubosineh:
So, the law was changed to gratiate the ruling establishment?

We know all this. But this can't help in building equitable polity.

How do you expect others to grow in the service with this nebulous philosophy?

You are talking nonsense. The law was changed so there won’t be a constant merry go round of ever changing IGs and so an IG can have security of tenure to make reforms. The law was changed in 2020 before this president or IG came into office or was appointed.

Good day!

Kewekubosineh:
Legally in service?. But his tenure expired last year.

So, where is the legality?

How many times does one have to tell you people? The law changed in 2020 and the matter has already gone to court in respect of the last IG. The term of an Ig is 4 years “it is sacrosanct” (words of the judge not mine) irrespective of his age!

Mccullum:
There is no illegality in extension of service chiefs.

It's an appointment position, that made it out of the purview of

public service rules. The extension is base on president discretional power.

It is not discretionary power. It is there in the police act in black and white and a federal high court has ruled that the section 7 of the police act which provides a guaranteed 4 year term for the IG overrides section 18 which mandates retirement at 60yrs.

It is not an extension and it is not discretionary. It is the new law. Untill and unless a higher court says otherwise, under the law, as interpreted by the judiciary which is the organ of government charge with interpreting the law, an IG once appointed is not required to retire at 60.

wellmax:
Sowore should stop being a nuisance.
If he has issues with the law allowing IGP to continue for 4 years he should attack NASS not the IGP

The drafters of the bill said they put adverts in 7 newspapers when they were deliberating the new law asking the public and civil society organizations to provide input….they didn’t see Sowore!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHdqDOAMQY?si=0UfbL6WehtOWBLVp

gidgiddy:
So what you are saying is the a President has the power to appoint an IG of Police, but has no power to appoint another one for 4 years unless there is misconduct?

An unelected position is guaranteed for 4 years? What kind of people made this foolish law?

It is not what I am saying, it is what the new law says! You can read it just as I did!

The man who sponsored the bill was on channels and he explained it. With due respect if you watch serious and professional journalists on media like channels TV instead of the comedy skits on Arise you are more likely to be in tune with serious issues of the day.

Part of the changes was a fixed term for the Ig of police and the removal of restrictions on female officers that had been in existence since 1940 such that a female could never become IG, DIG or AIG. I’m sure like me many people didn’t know this……clearly Sowore did not know!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhHdqDOAMQY?si=MJTPmH9JnExi4jn7


It is not a foolish law it is a good law. According to Gagdi we have had 22 IGs of police since 1999 and there is never reform in the police because the Ig of police is never there long enough to carry out reforms and the new person abandons whatever he started. It also means there will be less political influence of the presidency on the police. You can’t just remove an Ig because he isn’t doing your bidding.

On closer examination however, section 18 does say that every police office must retire at 60 which conflicts with Section 7 which guarantees 4 yrs for the IG. This is where the courts come in. Justice Omotosho already delivered a judgement in the case of IG alkali that the 4 yr term is sacrosanct and supersedes the 60yr retirement age requirement.

gidgiddy:
Isn't it a known fact that civil servants must retire at age 60 or after 35 years of service? Or has that been charged?

Have you read the police act of 2020?

I suggest you read it. Specifically section 7 which deals with the appointment, tenure and removal of an IG of police.

Many of you just comment out of ignorance. An IG of police under the new law, has a fixed term of 4 years and cannot be removed except for misconduct.

Civil service rules are different from military or police rules that is why they are governed by different enabling laws and regulated by different supervisory bodies.

In the case of the civil service it is the civil service commission. For the police it is the police service commission. The employment of the police or the armed forces do not fall under civil service rules.

Ignorance is when you confuse the 2 or allow Sowore who is not aware of the new law to lead you astray.

This is the law that governs the police force and gives legal backing to all activities relating to the police. If you see an age requirement or stipulation for the IG please let me know.

This is why you should pay attention when laws are passed.


You can download or view the police act 2020 here:

https://sabilaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Police-Act-2020-1.pdf

vecman22:
Do some of you have conscience at all.cant you see things are been done illegally in this country? If not for your sake,please for the sake of your family. Always stand for what is right

Kindly explain what the illegality is.

RealityKings1:
Honestly, it would be better to use that advantage and relocate to Europe... Just make sure it's another place apart from this continent.

You clearly have never lived in the UK or abroad. This is why we warn those of you who want to japa not to take the advice of people who have never experienced the system abroad.

Especially those of you who are not citizens or have highly valuable skills. You will realize suffering comes in different forms!

ogugwa1992:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0UBQTz1oGCNb8Nd2dgYNzYfRmuLXmCB9G3SwnxNozVfqYTFJLsF4fzJnKQJTBTffZl&id=100057351074401

Oga you don’t win someone in court, you defeat them in court. You can say he won his case in court or he won his case against XYZ but not he won XYZ. A person is not a prize that you can win.

Putindbutt:
Peter Obi is biting more than he can chew, is he the chairman of the party, why appoint people without the party. These are the people preaching rule of law.

we all know he is an opportunist and there is nothing rule of law in his antecedents.


He doesnt have the intelligence to execute what he is trying to do. Which is to constitute the Obidient movement into a formal structure seperate and distinct fro
LP as a negotiating block to whichever platform he decides to run under in 2027. He is basically trying to eat his cake and have it, trying to be too clever by halves. He isi trying for formalize his own political structure under the noses of LP…..as if LP are fools!

When you execute a move like this, you do it so people cant see it coming or you dont bother. You dont telegraph a move like this 2 years before elections. He is effectively telling LP, I plan to leave with my supporters. Already this is an indication to LP that he is not committed to them and they may in turn mess him up if his coalition plans fail.

I have been saying this for the last 2 days, the man is not intelligent.

blueAgent:
Typical Comment of a mummified Zombie.

A noneity who nobody knows is calling a former Governor of a state, CEO of one of the biggest banks in the country as well as several multi billion naria businesses as not be intelligent.

Atiku 2tomes Vice president of Nigeria and owner if several business as not Bern intelligent.

I doubt if you have a sane working brain.

Zombie

1. Adeleke and Monday Okpebholo are governors. Need i say more about intelligence as a requirement to become a governor in a country like Nigeria that had brain dead voters like you?
2. he was Chairman not CEO, you clearly are too daft, uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent and unenlightened to know the difference. Anybody can become chairman of a bank if you have money and acquire enough shares. You cant become the CEO of a bank unless you are a qualified banker. He is not a qualified banker.

if you have enough daft uneducated ignorant voters, you can become governor, if you have enough money to buy shares you can become chairman of a bank....neither require any above average level of intelligence....and so long as people like you populate our country, neither will.

Again all you've done is embarrass yourself and expose yourself as a person of low IQ. This is what we mean when we say you have a very low IQ to support Obi.

If money is your yardstick for intelligence then it’s no wonder you worship drug dealers.

beerfraud:
This Omokri gets badmouth

I said on a different thread yesterday that the opponents you need to fear are intelligent (high IQ) troublemakers. I mentioned ElRufai and Wike. You can add Reno to that list. There are not many [b]vocal [/b]Nigerians in our public space particularly politicians with an intellect to match these 3 because most High IQ Nigerians are abroad or stay away from politics. So when these 3 let looseI they wreak havoc because they have few in our vocal public space who can match them. The few who have the intelligence to match tend to keep quiet, ignore or quietly plot. Only a fool, engages, El Rufai, Wike, Reno or even FFK in a public war of words....not because they are right but because they will use their intelligence to drag you into the gutter and stain you.


Their attribute is not morality or uprightness nor integrity. It is intelligence and their ability to wreak havoc with it. If anything they can be psychopaths. Nothing more dangerous than an intelligent narcissistic psychopath. You recognize them and keep them onside. Most Nigerians do not have to intelligence to take on people like that.

Don’t take on or make an enemy of a highly intelligent, narcissistic psychopath.

djon78:
Stop misinforming Young people with farce wise elder
Or I will keep on calling you out anywhere I see your misinformation

I ask, is that that you were dropped as a child or you are a product of copulation between siblings?

You are calling me out for something I did not say. I already expressly stated that academic qualifications are not always a reflection of intelligence. Why do we produce so many r3tards in this country?

casualobserver:
Although academic qualification are not always a reflection of intellect they are often a pointer. Peter Obi got a 3rd class in philosophy, Atiku got a diploma in hygiene. ElRufai is a first class graduate in Quantity surveying.

Ojuntana:
I don't understand why you wrote such a long reply without reading the whole post. You should have simply kept your peace

Again, I repeat, Nigerians are not the only sore losers. Trump is not a Nigerian neither is Laurent Gbagbo. I can give so many more example of those who took their losses badly.

You are one of those Nigerians who cannot separate issues from personality. It is not about Atiku or Obi. It is about the system.

That's why Tinubu could commit perjury in 1999 and still ran for president in 2023. The system has weaknesses and loophole.

The rules can get changed. Rules are made to be changed. Tell your people to leave the opposition alone and stop planting moles to infiltrate them.

You are almost always offpoint. Obi and Atiku have never won the presidency so I don't know what you mean by the rules once worked for them

Again I didn’t read your post because this is pointless and becoming tedious. Take your proposal to the National Assembly where change can happen and leave me in peace. I am not interested in endless and pointless back and forth.

If Tinubu loses the election in 2027 and allows charlatans like Atiku or Obi into Aso rock, I will blame him for whatever strategic errors he made (e.g alienating ElRufai) but not INEC, not judiciary, not the electoral laws. I will accept the results of the election as a democrat because we all knew the rules.

Fell free to complain about zsomething you are powerless to affect

I am sure you will find someone here to pick up the baton of this pointless debate.

Have a good day!

Ojuntana:
1960 did not require a rerun but it required a majority rule. Your claim was that there has never been a requirement for majority rule in our laws

Rerun is not and cannot be more expensive than the first ballot. Even the present constitution has a condition for rerun. Rerun usually has only two candidates which will reduce the paperwork and logistic requirements

There's nothing like sore loser. No politician is not a sore loser. Whether here in Nigeria or elsewhere. Even Buhari kept insisting he won all the elections he was deemed to have lost. He still makes those claims even while in office as president.

The coming together of opposition does not necessarily guarantee a win especially if the ruling party has infiltrated all the levers of governance like we have presently. All the off cycle elections have shown clearly that INEC is complicit in electoral fraud. Pre-written result sheets are showing up at polling booths and the Edo fiasco has been adjudged to be a scam by almost all independent observers.

We should hold government and other institutions involved in electioneering to the highest standards if we want to have a more perfect system. That should be the focus of every reasonable citizen: a more perfect system not who wins or who loses.

Look my friend, I didn’t read the whole post because it’s getting tiresome now.

Nigerians have a fundamental problem. We are not democratic by nature, we are sore losers and our default reaction to things not going our way is to castigate and disparage the system, blame Inec, blame judiciary, change the rules of the game.

Again would you be saying this is Atiku or Obi won because clearly none of them would have won with a majority…..why now?

Have a good day! This is pointless discussion because the rules are not getting changed. Tell your people to put the party and the people ahead of their personal ambitions and work within the rules we have that we all know are not going to change and worked for them in the past and they had no problem with it.

Ojuntana:
In 1960, we had a parliamentary system and majority rule was required to be achieved by having a coalition. Ahmadu Bello even while having the highest number of seats could not form a govt by himself because he did not have the majority of seats. That's why he had to align with NCNC to get majority of seats. So the 1959 constitution had a majority rule clause inside contrary to your claim. That's why I admonish you to use google.
The 1979 constitution which was simply largely repeated in 1999 was the constitution that had plurality of votes instead of majority. The 1991 constitution and the 1998 draft had majority rule as well.

It didn’t require a rerun election though did it? The point is 2) a rerun is very expensive 2) the real problem is we are sore losers 3) We are not unusual in having leaders without majority vote. 4) focus your energies of admonishing the opposition that had 14m votes and lost to the incumbent with 8m. Unless you do and distract by blaming, INEC, judiciary or the rules, they will not take responsibility and act more responsibly thus betraying the will of the people.

Ojuntana:
That's the problem I usually have with a lot of NLanders. You guys simply take your bias and turn it to fact when you have google on your fingertips. The same energy you used to type that blatant falsehood is same energy you could have used to ask google.

Even Niger Republic here has majority votes in their laws. Bazoum had to go for a runoff because he did not win majority votes in the first ballot.
Of the 28 freest democracy, 21 have majority votes as a requirement for presidency.

https://fairvote.org/report/majority-rule-in-international-presidential-elections/

Fair enough, that’s not the way ours works and it has never been that way in any democratic dispensation since 1960. The question thou* is why now? Is it the first time we have had a president or prime minister who didn’t win a majority vote?

Every country designs it’s electoral system according to its own unique peculiarities. I am sure the countries you cite do not have the ethnic colorations we do. Furthermore, a system such as what you propose simply means those in the majority will always dominate elections. For instance if the criteria is majority vote, then the North can simply band together and hold on to the presidency for life. Those who designed our constitution took into account the fact that we are a nation of tribes, that is why the requirement from independence has always been the winning vote and geographical spread.

Babangida tried a 2 party system to achieve what you describe but democracy is by nature a compromise. In a multiparty system in a country like Nigeria, requiring a majority vote will require the expense of conducting a rerun. You are the same people that will complain of the cost. Can we afford it?

40yroldman:
I don't belong to any political party. I am just a 40 year old Nigerian man intelligent enough to know that it's undemocratic and evil for the minority to decide leadership in a democracy.
It's just not right from any perspective.

With due respect, I am not saying you are not but you are not displaying any intelligence here. All you have displayed is the typical Nigerian mindset of changing things because it didn’t deliver a desired result this time only to create another problem. Our real problem is because we are not democratic by nature and we find it hard to accept that we lost this time and we will try again next time. If you cannot accept a loss and feel you must change the rules or insult everybody in the process, all you display is you are not a democrat. You are only a democrat when you win.

I stress again PDP had 14m votes. Tinubu is not in power because he rigged or because of the rules, he is in power because PDP couldn’t agree amongst themselves and accept the loss of the PDP presidential ticket gallantly. Focusing on INEC, the election laws, he judiciary only serves to focus attention away from the real problem…the political actors who are fundamentally undemocratic and driven by ego and blind ambition to the point of bringing the whole house down.

The people you should focus your anger on are Atiku, Obi and Kwakwanso who destroyed the opposition PDP and snatched defeat from the jaws of a landslide victory. Your anger should be focused on Those 3 for allowing their egos to derail the will of the people. Like you said the people voted against APC but APC is in power because of the greed and ego of those 3 not because of the election laws. The more you blame Inec, judiciary, the election laws, the less likely those 3 are to own up and take responsibility for their blunder and work to make amends because they know you won’t blame them when in fact you should!

Ojuntana:
That's why there is always room for amendments. You should always work towards a more perfect system.

Nigeria is not the only country with more than 2 major parties and all such countries have the runoff option available to ensure the President has a majority of votes

25% in 2/3 of states is to take care of the spread of the mandate such that no 3 or 4 states alone can produce a president. 25% is still a minority in terms of numbers

Since 1999, we have not had a situation where the winner had less than 50% votes. So it is not about working for me or not. I have not been the one winning elections since 1999. Buhari of APC won in 2015 and 2019 and no one raised the issue of minority votes. PDP was winning before that.

If you look at the 25% rule self, it took the SC to make a pronouncement to lay the matter to rest.

They have run offs not because the winner doesn’t have the majority vote but because the winner does not mean the condition. It is the same with Nigeria, if Tinubu did not get 25% in 2/3tds of states there would have been a run off. I challenge you to tell me a democracy that requires that you must have 50+% at the first vote or there will be a run off. Runoffs only happen if you are the winner but you don’t meet other criteria. It is the same in Nigeria. Our rules are copied.

40yroldman:
That's where run-off electione come in.
The 2 candidates with the highest number of votes will contest again in the second round.
It doesn't make any sense to declare a candidate who lost 70% votes cast a winner of an election

Would you be saying the same thing if your candidate got 9m votes and defeated Tinubu but did not get 50% of the overall votes? You people are just sore losers. You knew the rules before the election. You lost deal with it. More importantly, deal with the fact that you had 14m votes but your undemocracitc behavior caused to to split your votes into 3!


That’s the real problem of the opposition PDP (whether OBi, Atiku or Kwakwanso who are all PDP don’t gree for anybody disciples) not the rules of the election. They are not democrats, you will hardly find a member of PDP who was part of the struggle to restore democracy.


The problem with Nigerian opposition whether Kwakwanso, Obi or Atiku is they are not democrats by nature, they are PDP men and as such creations of the military and they are used to winning elections by rigging, not via strategy, unity, compromise and agreements that is why all of them are serial defectors! They have not weaned themselves of the impunity of the military, impunity, imposition mindset that birthed the PDP.

The mindset of PDP is if it isn’t working for you, defect, rig or change the rules to favour you.