₦airaland Forum

Fiverrgig:
I believe there is God but does he give a Bleep?

You are a deist, my friend

We've had successful spine surgeries in Nigeria, I know of 3 hospitals in Ibadan alone. Why travel to India?
Wetin we dey find for sokoto dey our sokoto.

larrybee2017:
When I checked I realise you sure need help. If I may ask you this single question: ever since you choice not to belief His existence,does that make Him any less God? You have a choice to make choose wisely dearie. If you choice to belief ' He is the I AM THAT I AM' nothing changes that Him. The day a pot choice to argue with the Potter be sure destruction looms.
Heaven haveercy on your sold out soul

Why can't Christians just make their point without issuing threats? Beats me, really.

felixomor:
They are different things.
Stop being too desperate to explain things abeg.
Immune system is a different topic entirely.



Even we scientists, cant explain some of the things we witness.

They are not different things, as we get advanced in age, the immune system gets weaker evidenced by cancers becoming more prevalent as people get older because the telomeres get shorter and shorter leading to.errors in replication, mitosis and meiosis. You should know these things.

felixomor:
Mscheww.
Body heals itself, yet u grow old and go to the hospital....
Yeah right....

Stop mixing up things....

Sometimes, I wonder if you're really a medic. This is my 2nd time interacting with you on a thread and you ask the most mind boggling questions when it comes to health. The most epic if them all was you asking me the names of the 3 patients that were the burden of proof to confirm that Zika virus is an STD.

Case number 12
I was attending to a patient in the Accident and Emergency, so, this man walked in, he was a patient of the surgery department, they were managing him for metastatic prostate cancer. He came in, he's had urine retention for days, what struck me was that he came in with his prayer squad. He was admitted, then the prayer squad started praying, they finished praying and left, the man died about 30 minutes later.
So, I've seen a lot of deaths where prayers failed the patient. I'm yet to see one where prayers saved, if I see it, I'll shout it to the top of the mountains.

Case number 11
So, this boy was admitted with severe burns all over his body, he was managed and there was little improvement. Everyone knows that burn cases are difficult to manage and require patience. So, he was being treated and the mum supported with prayers, then one day, the mum decided that she needed to take the boy to a church for prayers. All counselling to make her reconsider proved abortive, and she discharged the boy against medical advice and took him to the church.
They came back 3 days later, the boy's burn wounds were now green in color, an evidence of Pseudomonas Infection. He had overwhelming sepsis. Aggressive treatment was recommenced and the mum prayed on one side, but the Infection was overwhelming. His organs just shut down one by one and he died despite all the prayers and church visits.

Lagusta:
Mantle?? You mean those 50naira handkerchiefs

Chaaaiii, my chest!!!

Yep, those exact same ones

Case number 10
We had to admit a baby girl, she was given birth to prematurely (7 months gestation), her case was a bad one and we told the parents the prognosis, but this little girl fought on. She exceeded our expectations and everyone in that unit got attached to her emotionally, then she got worse, nothing seemed to be working. The parents have spent a ton of money by this time, so, we were all really rooting for this girl to make it, we held prayers, got a mantle blessed by Bishop Oyedepo, prayed and prayed, she eventually died.
Our prayers and Bishop Oyedepo's mantle weren't worth a damn, apparently.

felixomor:
During my days in medical school, majority of my fellowship leaders and excos were all medical students, clinical medical students at that.

Felixomor is a medic, who knew

ApostleT:
y

It was a blood clot that blocked flow of blood between the lungs and the heart. The pathologist said he suspected it happened suddenly and everyone was right to assume heart attack. The only problem was their was no blood to carry the oxygen around the body despite the cpr cos the clot had blocked the flow of blood.

He said some people can develop this while flying a long distance and they don't have to have any symptoms. He it could be less fatal if it developed in other areas. In that case the patient may experience pain as the clot flows through the body

Yea, a variant of Pulmonary embolism called saddle embolism. It kills in minutes. Sorry for your loss, bro.

Ruq:
Your point exactly? No one ever ever guaranteed medicine as a definite remedy, why stress that, it's obvious you're still irked. pele.

The thread is about prayers failing patients at death's door, not the efficacy of medicine.

Case number 9

This woman was actually well known to the hospital staff. This was her 3rd CS. It was found out that she had contracted pelvis and was told that all her childbirth would be via CS. She refused. She was a member of a church that also runs a maternity and their mantra is that all women would give birth like the Hebrew women.

She pushed and pushed at her first delivery till the baby died and she was brought to the hospital for CS to remove the dead baby. Same thing happened the 2nd time. So, the faith of the whole church, their prayers couldn't save her. She has had 3 pregnancies, 3 dead babies and 3 CS with nothing to show for it.

Praying for years to have a vaginal delivery, still, nothing

8th case (Submitted by biggestjoe)

Last year, while serving at JNH Ibadan, a patient was brought to the hospital dead. I certified the patient dead. The relatives were soo shocked they couldn't believe it. They called a pastor and they gathered in their numbers to pray at the OPD. I left them there to attend to another patient at the ward. A nurse came running to me 5 mins after that the pastor said i should come and recheck the patient. I refused. I told the nurse to go back and tell the pastor that i also believe in miracles. I believe that if a miracle had occurred, the patient would be up on his feet by now. God doesn't need me to assist him in completing a miracle. The nurse went back. They prayed some more and finally accepted the harsh truth. They called me to write a death certificate for the deceased and they later took him to the morgue.
If you have cases that you want me to post, let me know and I'll post it on the thread.

Uyiredia's Case | Tosan200's Case | Next Case (9)

hopefulLandlord:
I wonder why Christians give testimonies of Yahweh saving their lives; it seems Yahweh is doing lots of evil to them by sparing their lives since "To die is better than to live"

can you see why religion breeds suicide bombers?

I peed myself laughing, this is just hilarious.

ApostleT:
You actually have more problems than I thought because you sound more like the gullible here. I should not reply you because of your insensitivity but then lest you glory in your folly. Ever had of sudden death?

Don't know what you mean by religious folks? That sound like hasty generalization.

When my wife died the pathologists report concluded "natural death, unpredictable and unpreventable" There was no sign and the Prof told us it's just unfortunate where this developed. It kills suddenly.

Anyone can be religious but few are Christians. It is clear you don't know Christ but you know the religion i.e doing things because you are told but having no conviction of why you are doing it.

Please just curious, what was the diagnosis?

7th Case

A Pastor was admitted into the Medical ward, he had enlarged spleen and was severely anaemic. So he was told that his spleen had to be removed, he refused and said that he believed that God would heal him. He was constantly transfused with blood but the blood just ended up pooling in his spleen. He was constantly counselled, but he refused. His spleen just kept on pooling the blood till he died. I watched him die. He died while prayers were going on around him. They prayed and prayed, there was no answer.

This was a pastor with years of service to the kingdom. Couldn't that and his faith count for him?

Next Case (

peacesamuel94:
According to the Bible, Faith is not just a requirement, it is also in levels, it is possible, someone that has faith have prayed for the Annihilation of ISIS, but it is unlikely for Him/her to possess the degree of faith to make it come to pass.

Pastor Adeboye famously prayed and prophesied that Boko Haram would be crushed before the end of the year, that was at the peak of their powers. Last I heard, they carried out an attack last week. That's a General in God's army. His level of faith is unquestionable

peacesamuel94:
Op did some cherry picking, what about those that were prayed for and got healed? Prayer was never meant to work in every case.
Just as you said, you do not have the ability to measure faith, People can appear to have faith whereas within, they're doubters.

I'm yet to see a single case where prayers changed the Patient's fortunes. If I see one, trust me, I'll post it here. I really want to believe, but all I see all around me is evidence otherwise.
Which part of the Bible says that Prayer wasn't meant to work in every case?

MrPRevailer:
Sickness and diseases have been, but never a time in history has it been so rampant/occurring as this generation. Check your history. Today, many diseases that never existed has been born. And death rate has skyrocketed 20 times. Check the stats on Google.

Oga, life expectancy has increased dramatically over the last 500 years with some countries getting to 90 years life expectancy. I don't know where you got your death rate info from.
We see diseases that "never existed" in the past is because we have gotten better at identifying and diagnosing them.
Go and check the stats on that same Google that you're quoting

Case number 6

This woman came in as a referral case from a maternity ran by a church (I don't get why churches have to operate maternities), she came in with a scan report saying that the baby already died inside the womb (Intrauterine fetal death). When I explained this to her, she broke down and started wailing, and explained to me that she has been childless for a while which made that pregnancy a precious one.

She started praying right there and then, commanding the baby to come back to life, after every round of prayer, she'll beg me to listen for any fetal heartbeat, I'll listen and inform her that there's none. She'll start again, got anointing oil from her church, prayed, applied the oil, did everything but still, the fetal heartbeat didn't come back. I watched her pray and I couldn't stand it anymore how broken she was, I had to leave her alone and gave her some privacy. She prayed till she finally had the baby (dead of course).

Even if you're a spirit filled (and all those other adjectives they use to describe strong Christians) Christian and you see prayers failing your patients at death's door every day, won't it make you reevaluate the importance of prayer?

Next Case (7)

The 5th case.

This one happened to a senior colleague, who told us about it.

A Bank manager, well educated and rich, she got pregnant and went to see her MOG. He prophesies to her that her enemies have ganged up against her to make sure that herself and the baby won't survive the pregnancy. So it was agreed that she'll have her baby in the church in the midst of fervent prayers, so that the plans of the enemies won't come to pass. Labour started and she went to the church, where she was in labour for 2 days in the midst of fervent prayers. When the MOG saw that the case was getting out of hand, they took her to the hospital where it was found out that she had obstructed labour and that the baby was already dead inside the womb, so an emergency CS was carried out and because she was already weak from being in labour for 2 whole days, she died.

The man of God now declared that his prophecy has come to pass and that her enemies succeeded.

Which got me really angry with the Pastor because, he obviously killed the mother and the baby.

But how can a creator watch his creations pray to him for 2 whole days and refuse to answer their prayers?

Next Case (6)

What exact medical challenges have you been having?
Which hospital?

lepasharon:
I'm laughing and crying at the same time

Why, if I may ask?

The 4th case.

Dude was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma/Squamous cell carcinoma (they just weren't sure, story for another day) and had to have one of his arms amputated.

Because he came late to the hospital, it has already metastasized to other parts of his body. I've never seen anybody in so much pain before in my entire life. They were poor and couldn't afford to pay for his drugs. As they had no money, they turned to prayers, they prayed and prayed but dude just got worse, he was in so much pain that we had to constantly sedate him with morphine (the strongest pain killer known to man), he was constantly sedated till he eventually passed on, in spite of all the prayers from parents, church members and siblings.

Is it that their prayers don't worth anything?

Next Case

EmDeko:
What is the point of prayers when you don't know God's divine plan or purpose?

You read the 2nd case I posted here, yea?

The 3rd case or group of cases that I want to share.

I worked in a HIV/AIDS unit directly for 3 months and indirectly for another 3 months..

The patients come in, are diagnosed and are placed on Highly Active Anti Retroviral Drugs.

Then we noticed a pattern amongst a sizable number of patients. They start therapy, their CD4 cell count starts improving, the future looks bright, then suddenly, their CD4 cell count starts dropping and they begin to get really sick, they get admitted as Stage 4 patients and they die. We started asking questions around and it turns out that their Pastors and popular Men of God have told them that they are healed and that they should stop taking their medications, so, they believe and stop taking their drugs, then they deteriorate and die. I don't have any yardstick to measure faith, but their faith is definitely bigger than a mustard seed.

It was a running problem, it got so bad that before we start any patient on HAART, we'll counsel them about their Pastors, that if any Pastor tells them to stop taking medication that they are healed, that the should report to the hospital first before stopping. We'll invite them to go to the wards to see the state of those who have Stage 4 AIDS.

I've never seen as much faith in any group of patients as those who have HIV, they always want to pray, especially in the midnight, one of their drugs is very sedating, so they always come to complain that they can't pray in the night because of that particular medication and ask us to change it to enable them pray.

With all their faith and the works backing their faith, they still don't get healed or die from the ailment, which baffles me cos it's written that with faith, we can move mountains.

Next Case

businesscitadel:
Just for clarification @Catfishbilly
1. Are you a Doctor?

I am a doctor

businesscitadel:
2. Are you an Atheist one who is yet to see evidence of a god or gods existence?

Let's just say I'm in limbo

The second case that I want to share here happened right inside a church where I went for Sunday service.

Now this Preacher has spent the entire church service mocking contemporary medicine going on and on about how drugs, hospitals were useless in the face of prayers.

As the service was going on, a Man rushed in with his baby, crying profusely and dropped him at the altar. Apparently, the baby was critically sick and at the point of death, so he brought the baby to church.

Now, this Preacher didn't even break his stride or look in the general direction of the baby, he just said "One of the Pastors should come and take care of this" and continued lambasting doctors and hospitals.

The Pastors and some Deacons took the baby to an office and they all joined hands together and prayed for the baby before sending the baby to, you've guessed it, A HOSPITAL where the baby later died.

Which got me wondering, why didn't the creator answer the prayers of his servants in the midst of a sermon where they were mocking modern healthcare or act on the faith of the father who brought his dying baby to his house.

Next Story

The first case really shook my faith and set me towards the path that I'm on right now.

A baby boy was brought, not up to one year old, unconscious. He had cerebral malaria and overwhelming sepsis. His case was a bad one. We admitted and started therapy.

He got better slightly, then, one day, he just got worse. This was the only child of the parents. His mother prayed from the afternoon non stop. Towards the evening, she was so weak she couldn't stand or talk, another mother in the ward had to come and help her with her prayers. She prayed till 9pm when the baby died. This was after approximately 8 hours of non stop praying. This really shook me. I asked myself, what kind of creator would watch his creation pray to him for that long with just one prayer request and refuse to grant it.

That was the beginning of my journey.

It's not a hidden fact that Medical Doctors have a huge number of Atheists amongst them, I mean, they see how ineffective prayer is in the face of death on daily basis. When the Bible has already said that we should ask and we shall receive.

The hospital wards have heard more prayers than churches but still, patients still drop like flies.

I'll be using this thread to share stories of patients I've lost in the face of prayers and I encourage doctors and non doctors alike to come forth and share their stories.

The impending antibiotics apocalypse in Nigerian Healthcare and the Malaria & Typhoid Diagnosis Debacle.

So, a patient came in with the test result of a Urine Microscopy/Culture/Sensitivity test, There was significant growth of a bacteria that was resistant to everything. I mean your Penicillins, Ceftriaxones, Ciprofloxacins, Azithromycins, Gentamicins, about 10 different antibiotics were tested, I just shipped the patient off to a Teaching Hospital. This is the 2nd time it's happening in 2 years.

This got me wondering. Why won't we have antibiotics resistance in our practice when they are as common as candy as is readily available to every Tom, Dick and Harry that wants one, without even presenting a prescription?

Just walk into any Pharmacy or Chemist (Chemists a.k.a Patent Medicine shops aren't even supposed to stock antibiotics to begin with) and ask for one, they'll gladly give you. You can buy any drug you want over the counter in Nigeria including Chemotherapy drugs (for treating cancer) which are supposed to be tightly controlled.

Antibiotics are so much abused to the extent that people don't even complete their dosage, They use 3 or 4 tablets and dump the rest. We all have unfinished packs of Ampiclox and Ciprofloxacin on our nightstands.
The Popular Ampiclox should be taken every 6 hours, people rarely do that.

I've seen people use antibiotics for a myriad of health issues that don't even need antibiotics for example

1) To clean the "system" after menstruation (as if your body is a V6 engine that needs oil change)

2) To clean the "system" after having unprotected sex ( I still don't know this system they keep referring to)

3) As emergency contraception after unprotected sex (Has Postinor and all his brothers finished in the pharmacy?)

4) For the almighty Nigerian "Toilet Infection" (Which is almost always vulvovaginal candidiasis, a fungal infection)

5) For a clean cut, injury or bruise.

6) For cold, cough and cattarh (Which is caused by a virus, unless it becomes cross infected with a bacteria, your actifeds and procolds and cough syrup would do the trick).

The Pharmacists who are supposed to be the gate keepers preventing us from the apocalypse instead of doing their jobs are busy trying to call themselves consultants and trying to close down pharmacies owned by doctors, Which brings me to the biggest abuse of antibiotics in our country.

7) The Malaria and Typhoid Diagnosis. Just walk in to any private or Primary/Secondary healthcare center and complain that you have Fever, body pain, bitter taste in the mouth, bla bla bla and mistakenly mention vomiting, abdominal pain and diarrhea, They'll instantly give you a diagnosis of Malaria and Typhoid which begs the question, since when did Vomiting, abdominal pain and diarrhea cease to be a symptom of Acute Malaria?

Check medscape and other medical literature if you feel I'm wrong. A prescription for antimalarials and Ciprofloxacin(an antibiotic) is given to cure the non-existent Typhoid.

It has gotten so bad that people now go to Pharmacies to buy Ciprofloxacin plus antimalarials whenever they have even the slightest symptom of Malaria because to them, it's Malaria and Typhoid.

I can't even begin to count how many times patients showed me a pack of Ciprofloxacin as the antimalarial that they are using. It is that bad.

To further solidify this charade, They'll ask for a Widal test which is the most useless test ever as far as I'm concerned, because a Single Widal test means absolutely nothing because anything that will give you a fever will give you a significant Widal titre including, you've guessed it, Malaria! A Widal test is done then repeated to check for Doubled titres in 10 to 14 days time to clinch the diagnosis, that is if the preferred diagnostic work up like Bone marrow and Blood culture aren't available.

I am not saying that cases of Genuine Typhoid enteritis don't exist, but it is not as common as some Doctors and healthcare workers would want to make you believe due to their quest to bill patients higher for Malaria treatment and justify the billing. It is unjust to subject every patient with a fever and vomiting to a Widal test to generate money for the facility.

A consultant gastroenterologist (people that specialize in diseases of the digestive system of which Typhoid is one of them) famously said that in his 30 years of practice, he has only seen 5 cases of Typhoid fever.

I think Doctors should not be in a haste to prescribe antibiotics and for Pharmacies and Patent medicine shops to be tightly controlled so that antibiotics are only sold to patients with a prescription.
If the trend continues like this, a time will come when all antibiotics will fail due to resistance just like it is gradually happening in America and common illnesses like Tonsillitis and the Real Typhoid fever will become major killers once again.