₦airaland Forum

John 14:9-11
ESV:Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
9
ESV:Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10
ESV:Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
11
ESV:Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

If I may ask who is the Saviour of Christians, God or the Lord Jesus Christ?

Cc AntiChristian, FOLYKAZE, Janosky, MrZENographer, Muttleylaff.

Janosky:
God fearing Women were followers of Christ
(John20:1-3,11-18.).
Women were evidently ministers of the gospel. Preaching and teaching knows no gender . Psalms 68:11. Acts5:42. Mark13:10. Matt 24:14. Matt 28:20
However, no woman was named in any position of authority among the apostles or in the early first century Christian congregation.
(Acts 13:1. Acts15:1-3. Acts 21:8. 1 Cor11:3.)

Oga Janosky you guys have not answered my question o.

Is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific? Please don't invade this question this time around. 

1 Corinthians 12:28
KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

This is a simple yes or no question.

Only fools criticize what they don't know instead of making investigations.

Done with the volume 1, now in the middle of volume 2 on my way to volume 3 of the grail message.

The first problem I have encountered with the grail message is that it denies the resurrection of Christ's physical body. This has been the only part that I have/will not accept as I tarry on to volume 3.

As per the problem of re-incarnation, I'm still doing some investigations.

Aside that, the book is a nice read, gives a deeper understanding about God, Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit, creation, life etc. In fact there are a loads of lessons to learn from that book "In The Light Of The Truth aka the Grail Message."

Thanks.

God bless.

solite3:
men and women has their proper place in the church, the above verse do not suggest women could be leader the church. Paul specifically said women are not to exercise authority over men why do you keep ignoring this? Can a woman be pastor/ apostle without having authority over men in the church?

Yes. A woman can be a Pastor/Apostle without having authority over men in the church. Her duty in that office is to minister Christ Jesus and His Gospel.

The office of a Pastor, Apostle, Evangelist, Teacher, Prophet is under the authority of an Elder/Bishop/General overseer.

Meanwhile, an Elder/Bishop/General overseer can also play a perfect role in any of the offices above.

solite3:
this verse does not suggest that junia or Andronicus were apostles. What it mean is that because of their work they were more recognise in the midst of the apostles than others.

If you say so solite3. But what about the question below

Is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific? Please don't invade this question this time around. 

1 Corinthians 12:28
KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Maximus69:
Those mentioned "WEREN'T APOSTLES" but active members of the first century Christians congregation "KNOWN TO THE APOSTLES"

There were only twelve Apostles appointed by Jesus for the nation of Israel {Matthew 10:2,Revelation 21:14} but just one Apostle for the nations {Romans 11:13,1Timothy 2:7} making thirteen in all, and they're all MALES!

My friend Maximus69, will anyone flog or beat you if you have a better understanding or interpretation of scriptures not taught in the Kingdom Hall?

According to Matthew 10:2, the Lord Jesus Christ has already chosen His Apostle, but why did He also made some to be Apostles again in Ephesians 4:11? Did He forget or was He missing words?

Maximus69:
So you either take it or leave it, there is NOTHING like FEMALE Apostles in God's word!

The Kingdom Hall/Jehovah witness interpretation of major doctrines in Christendom has always been skewed. So I am not surprise when Maximus69 is proving same.

But the way you cunnily dodge that question is awe. Bros you are smart! But since you have not answered my question here It comes again.

Lol

Is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific? Please don't invade this question this time around. 

1 Corinthians 12:28
KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Romans 16:7
KJV:Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

NB: Andronicus is a male name while Junia is a female name.

BlueAngel444:
[s]Of note - those that mean they or she is an Apostle

RIP bro RIP[/s]

Stop disgracing intellect and sound reasoning. You frequently speak unreasonably as per this topic. You lack basic comprehension and knowledge spilling your ignorance in every nooks and crannies of this thread.

I pity you!

Right from the day I became born again I have been Resting In Peace, perfectly in Christ Jesus my Lord and God.

Stop misfiring dude!

Maximus69:
So whoever has any tangible question should ask
now or better still ask form our brothers and sisters visiting them!

Is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific?

1 Corinthians 12:28
KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Now consider this;

Romans 16:7
KJV:Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

NB: Andronicus is a male name while Junia is a female name.

Cc Maximus69, TATIME, BlueAngel444, solite3, JMAN05.

FOLYKAZE:
Yes I am!

Knowledge is larger than existence. It has no boundaries and limit. I choose to know, for it guides one paths to truth where salvation stream down from.

Where are you standing?

Do you now believe in God?

Is FOLYKAZE no longer an atheist or am I missing monikers?

FOLYKAZE are you the one?

BlueAngel444:
The way u quoted scripture, like ur point was in it,
And the way u brought about ur conclusion - as ur point wasn't in it



Shows how those fake pulpit speakers that are leading souls to hell preach.

Go to God to teach you His word

So this is all you have got Huh? Mentioning/quoting me without countering the points or answering the question.

Stop misfiring dude!

BlueAngel444:
So wait are you saying because pastor means shepherd that women can be shepherds.

U may jump and say yes, and even quote the few women who were in the OT but recall that those women needed the presence of a man.


How does a woman become the husband of one wife?


If you guys won't have the wisdom of God atleast have the fear of God na. Do you guys think God is an auto of confusion.

my problem with you is that you lack basic comprehension and yet you claim you know when all your posts here is not consistent with the topic raised by the OP. Please stick to the matter at hand.

Now my question BlueAngel444, Maximus69,Solite3

Is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific? Please don't evade this question this time around.

1 Corinthians 12:28

KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11

KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Romans 16:17
KJV:Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

PS: Andronicus is a male name while Junia is a female name.

solite3:
pls show me from the biblical proof of such.

John, Peter etc were Elders/general overseers/bishop and also operated in the office of an Apostle.

1 Peter 5:1
KJV:The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

2 Peter 1:1
KJV:Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

solite3:
you are confusing yourself, A woman could be an apostle, pastor but not a church leader , you think an apostle is the highest church leader one who Jesus appoint to build the body of Christ.
A pastor is a leader of a local assembly of christian you are contradicting yourself again how can a woman be an apostle or a pastor without being a leader of the/ a church.

The head of a church is an Elder/Bishop/General Overseer. He is and must be AN ADULT MALE HUMAN. He can also operate in the office of an apostle, pastor, teacher, evangelist etc.

A woman can operate in any of the offices above BUT NOT AS AN ELDER/BISHOP/GENERAL OVERSEER.

solite3:
Show me an example of a woman pastor or apostle in the bible and I will take you people serious.

Go check the meaning of the word "Apostle or pastor" and see if that role is gender specific before jumping into irrelevant conclusions.

BTW there are a whole loads of things we do and practice as Christians that are not expressly commanded in the scripture. So if you must stick with this view, you must do same with the following

1. No wearing of wedding band/ring to indicate that you are married,

2. No attending of primary and secondary school including a tertiary institution, afterall as Christians we have the Holy Spirit that indwells us to teach us all things.

solite3:
If you see as how I m laughing at you guys incompetence and cluelessness, contradiction and confusion all to hold a man made ideology or belief.

Is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific? Please don't invade this question this time around.

1 Corinthians 12:28
KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11
KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

solite3:
Ephesians is not about specifics on who is qualified to lead a church, the book of first timothy is about qualifications for being a church leader and it was adressed to men.

Is it that you have not read my first 3 posts? Please do if you haven't.

A MAN; THAT IS AN ADULT MALE HUMAN MUST BE THE THE LEADER/BISHOP/GENERAL OVERSEER OF A CHURCH. He can also play the role of a pastor, teacher, apostle, prophet etc if he has the gifts given to him by God.

A woman can also play the role of an apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher etc and NOT AS A CHURCH LEADER/BISHOP/GENERAL OVERSEER.

THE CHURCH LEADER/BISHOP/GENERAL OVERSEER IS THE HEAD OF A CHURCH. The offices of an Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, Evangelist are under him. These offices are gifts and God can use anyone to operate in it whether male or female.

solite3:
You dont even understand what you are saying. God has different ways he use people, this does not negate the fact that God chooses males to lead the church just that God uses women differently in all God uses both male and female.

is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific?



1 Corinthians 12:28



KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.



Ephesians 4:11



KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

MuttleyLaff:
You're sure give AntiChristian credit more than AntiChristian deserves. You took your time to read something almost entirely cut and pasted from elsewhere, I mean what you read was almost entirely, copied and pasted here, by AntiChristian, from the below website link:
https://www.truthortradition.com/articles/does-the-bible-ever-refer-to-jesus-christ-as-god

Doing something like that betrays AntiChristian's lack of original thought. It exposes AntiChristian's lack of any meaningful content from a personal perspective and/or understanding.

Maybe when AntiChristian learns to make comments without having to copy and paste other people's original thought and work here, we might have an original thought from AntiChristian to read and not be reading all this persistent advertisement of AntiChristian's ignorance and lack of understanding here everytime.

AntiChristian, needs to try to make comments here, using AntiChristian's own words, own understanding, own thoughts and not be so quick to be bring in content from third parties, who aren't here to talk for themselves or able to defend what they've typed that AntiChristian has copied and pasted on to the thread. AntiChristian isn't the originator of that content repeated here on this thread and so AntiChristian wouldn't be in a position to defend any part of the content.

AntiChristian here is a simple and easy question I'll like you to answer. Please who is it, that only, knows what's in peoples' heart, that always knows what people are thinking, that always and without failing knows every person's thoughts. Knows whats in every human being? Thans in advance for your reply as you give the name or a name, for such person.

Gbam

That is why I call you old classic specimen of a human being.

That guy; Antichristian is trying to take the position of jesusjnr, he is an utter clown. Lol

Didn't even waste my time reading. I just got to let him get behind me.

Maximus69:
God never appoint women in those positions because they're not created to make decisions, they are to complement whatever men decided upon.

is 1 Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 gender specific?

1 Corinthians 12:28

KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11

KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Maximus69:
That's why God's word referred to them as the WEAKER VESSELS {1Peter 3:7} God won't use these WEAKER VESSELS to carry heavy responsibilities that men (WEAK VESSELS) often fumble carrying! 1Timothy 2:14

Firstly, I will like you to go back to 1 Timothy 2:14 so that you can understand it properly because it doesn't tally or explain your points. They are both parallel.

Lets see 2 Timothy 2:20-21

KJV:But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

KJV:If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

From the above bible passage we can see that a vessel of honour fit for the Master's use is not considered from a gender perspective.

JMAN05:
A woman can be a minister, a preacher of the good news to unbelievers.

This is your own teaching/interpretation because it is not expressly commanded in the scripture.

JMAN05:
She can also be a prophetess. But these gifts from the spirit does not mean being a Pastor - a shepherd in the congregation. This is reserved for the men. (1Tim 3)

Not only a prophetess, but also an Apostle, Teacher, etc 1 Corinthians 12:28.

The Word of God never assigned these gifts from a gender position.

JMAN05:
Check verse 8. You ll see that Suh gift as pastor is for men.

JMAN05 the term "men" is not used for the adult male human but the human race or human kind.

If we should go by your logic it means that;

1. It is only men that can trespass. Matthew 6:15

2. It is only men we should confess the name of Jesus to. Matthew 10:32

JMAN05:
Overseer is overseer. An overseer is still an elder/pastor. The scripture does not allow women to shoulder that responsibility.

Like I said earlier, a general overseer or bishop MUST BE A MAN AND THE HEAD OF A CHURCH. He can also play the role of a pastor, teacher, prophet, apostle etc. A woman can also play any of these roles but cannot be appointed as a general overseer or bishop.

We must compare 1Timothy 2:12 with 1Corinthians 12:28 and Ephesians 4:11 in order to have a balance interpretation.

1 Corinthians 12:28-31
KJV:Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28
KJV:And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29
KJV:Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30
KJV:Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31
KJV:But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

From the Bible passage above we can see that the office of a Prophet,Apostle, Teacher is not gender specific. This also correlate with the Bible passage below.

So therefore a woman, can be a pastor, teacher, apostle, evangelist etc.

Ephesians 4:10-13
KJV:He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11
KJV:And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12
KJV:For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13
KJV:Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

My own take on this matter is that a woman should not assume the role of a general overseer/Bishop/Senior leader in a church thereby making her have a total and complete authority of the church administration.

BTW the head of a church is not a Pastor, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher etc. The Bishop or general overseer is the head. In this position he can also have the gift or play the role of a Pastor, Apostle, Prophet, Teacher etc.

I am open for correction.

Thanks.

God bless.

Everyone has flaw(s) be it a force man or a civilian.

May God bless everyone that are fighting from a genuine heart in order to bring sanity to this catastrophe of a country. And for the departed ones may their soul rest in peace.

@naptu2 thanks for this wonderful article. I will also love to read articles relating to the Nigeria civil war, the Boko Haram from your channel.

Thanks.

God bless.

Firstly I must commend the OP, @naptu2 for doing a nice job. The article is well research, keeping the readers especially the ones that yearn for knowledge glued to their touchscreen. I also love the way he posted all the articles at once, not keeping his readers waiting and refreshing the thread every minute thereby giving room to much foul talks by some members.

I don't do assumptions, I judge things based on what I know, observed and from reliable sources. Whether monopoly of business or northern hegemony, you will agree with me that the Dangote/Dantata family still hold the portrait of Alhassan Dantata whether at heart or hand telling him every minute and seconds that they will never fail him and make his last wish come true and remain steady.

Although the present generation of this family might be into one form of opaque business or the other, but the one I care to learn from is the pioneer, the master and legend of them all ALHASSAN DANTATA. That man in his youthful days is a legend, no fighting his mum because mum wouldn't give him money even though she was in money, not fighting his Islamic teacher even though he takes the lion's share of his sweat. The young man was like Joseph in the Bible, he knows where he is going to and nothing on earth could sway him to and fro. He even bought his freedom as a slave, he never allowed anything to distract him. He was too focus indeed!

Government policy in Africa is not friendly at all, they now want graduates to have a skill after spending about four to six(4-6) years in the university as if it's beans they went to cook in school. WTF! Even after learning the skill where will the start up capital come from? This continent is jam-packed with crazy leaders both in the political and religious circle. The continent need a thorough clean up like the Ogoni land.

Nevertheless, we should not be wearied in our endeavors, we must never allow the useless government of ours to determine our fate. ALHASSAN DANTATA was once a slave, he wanted to be rich or more richer than his father, in fact he wanted to ensure a constant wealth flow in his bloodline and that feat has been accomplished and still being maintained.

Regardless of your hustle, don't lose focus on God, or can't you see the way the Dangote/Dantata family carried the Koran,Hadith and Islamic studies at the center of their head? Pray to God for wisdom, knowledge and understanding and he shall direct your path.

For those into "get rich quick scheme" or having that syndrome be warned! Every day for the thief one day for the owner.

Don't blame anyone or anybody too much for the failure you have experienced or passing through, be focus on breaking away from your poverty line so that your generation will thank you for eliminating them from poverty.

Do not maintain your poverty line by murmuring, backlash, accusations, procrastination, backbiting, jealousy, rumours, laziness, pride etc.

Trust in God, Pray for the betterment of others and always do good anytime, anyplace and anybody.

Thanks.

God bless.

sonmvayina:
Did you read it?

I did bro. The way that guy skewed the interpretation of that Bible passage is very alarming.

sonmvayina:
You are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread.. If the Jesus story originated from Nigeria or Ghana, will you worship him?.. The Europeans won't.. But will Africans?.

Can anything good come out from Nazareth? said Nathanael. I guess Nigeria or Ghana of today is much more better than Nazareth when this statement was made.

You can draw your deductions from there.

sonmvayina:
The Jews have their own beliefs which is what Judaism is about.. This Judaism is very much similar to the igbo traditional belief hence the igbos has been claiming that they are from the middle east...
But when the Romans became world power they created their own religious text and added it at the end of the Jewish scriptures. That is why there is so much conflict between the two of them..

Wonderful fabrications. And the Jews find their way into an already constructed religious texts formed behind doors in Rome.

sonmvayina:
So if it was the Yoruba that fabricated the Jesus son of God story will you worship him? "as God.?

I don't do backward reasoning and vain imaginations of facts that has already been solidified.

Let the Yoruba Jesus prove himself better than the one that came out of Nazareth, then we will know who to believe and follow.

sonmvayina:
https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/who-is-the-child-in-isaiah-95-6&hl=en-NG

what a funny post.

Kikikikikikikiki..... Chaeiiiii

sonmvayina:
That the Jesus story was set in Palestine does not make it real... Or true..

we are still saying the same thing bro. That the name Charles Darwin is inferred as the author of "the origin of species" does not mean he truly existed.

sonmvayina:
You have really not updated your knowledge.. So you have not read.. That they are all forgeries.. Possibly by Eusebius.. He was the first to quote from them..

well done citadel of updated knowledge.

They are false but yours are true right?

So what proves do you have for your own historians?

sonmvayina:
King Hezekiah

haaaa, My Lord and my God!

It is finished. No need arguing with you oga. Because I can't waste my phone ink if you got this kind of old testament bible knowledge.

What a wonderful research you have really done for yourself.

sonmvayina:
What did the Historians of his day say about him?.. Outside of the Bible..

None.

You are supposed to find loads of materials.. Somebody who walked on water, fed 5000+ people, raise somebody to life.. Is it not ironical..

like seriously bro? Huh?

Thank God for Flavius Josephus, Tacitus and co.

sonmvayina:
It Is just like me saying lex luthur exist so superman must exist too...

What is your metric for measuring what truly exists or not?

sonmvayina:
The real translation of, Isaiah 9:6...

Who is this child or Son?

sonmvayina:
You have really not done any research, you are just vomiting what you have been fed with..

Jesus never existed.. Same goes for the apostles too..

The entire new testament is a Roman fabrication.. Has got nothing to do with God or the Jews.

And only your old testament authors or brothers we're not fabricated Huh?

Even the research you are boasting of, is it not another man's testimony?

sonmvayina:
So since spiderman lives in new York, and new York is in existence... So spiderman must be real.. Superman lives in Arkansas... Superman must be really.. Please, you are more educated than that..

Behind the movie scene I saw someone dressed in Spider-Man costume like the one I see in Spider-Man movies. And it was in New York.

Ouch! I was deceived all this while.

I never knew Albert Einstein never existed even though I got some of his photos.

Ouch.

sonmvayina:
It is the Romans /Greeks who fabricated the story of Jesus.. God promised the Jews a Messiah, have you ever taken the time to ask them what a Messiah is and what kind of Messiah they are expecting...?.or what he is supposed to accomplish?.. You can Google for the Jewish idea of a Messiah... Or ask any rabbi..

The first 12 apostles has done a clean job in regards to the true identity of who the messiah is that is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Even Apostle Paul was a core Jew.

sonmvayina:
All biblical stories are all allegory and metaphorical... God is consciousness..

stale bro! stale!

Allegorical and metaphorical and yet archaeological discoveries keep feeding us with some of the sites mentioned in the Bible. Even many places that were mentioned in the Bible are still in existence.

sonmvayina:
Where in the old testament did God say he was going to send his son? Which prophet prophesied that?

Read Isaiah 9:6-7, 11:1-5