₦airaland Forum

SIRTee15:
Here is my response to your resurrection contradiction claim.


ve gone thru the different resurrection accounts in the 4 gospel and the there's actually no contradiction at all.
In fact the different stories complement each other and when merged together the resurrection events makes logical sense



1. How many women visited the Tomb?

The important thing to note here is that none of the gospel writers said 'only' a particular number visited the tomb. They simply mentioned names of women they knew that visited the tomb.
actual logical contradiction requires exclusionary clauses such as “only x, y, and z were there and no one else” or “only three people witnessed incident a.” None of the Gospel texts do that here; hence, no demonstrable contradiction exists (see Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:1-10; John 20:1).

Gospel of John seemingly makes it like only Mary Magdalene visited the tomb until we get to John 20:2. Mary finds the tomb empty, runs to Peter and (presumably) John, and says the following, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and WE do not know where they have laid Him.”

In reporting the words of Mary, John reveals that there were others with Mary.

2. Number of angels

The area which has generated the most discussion concerns the angels who were at the tomb of Jesus. Matthew and Mark relate that one angel addressed the women, while Luke and John say that two angels were at the tomb. This seems to be a discrepancy, with Matthew and Mark knowing of only one angel while Luke and John speak of two. However, Matthew and Mark do not say that there was only one angel at the tomb, but that one angel spoke to the women.

This does not contradict Luke and John, for Matthew and Mark specify that one angel spoke, but they do not say there was only one angel present or only one angel spoke. Quite possibly, one of the angels served as the spokesman for the two, thus he was emphasized.


3. . Who rolled the stone away

The issue with this question is centrally dealing with whether the stone was rolled away from the tomb when the women arrived. Notice that all but one account are in definite agreement. Mark, Luke, and John all say the stone had been moved when the women arrived. It is only Matthew who reports, or appears to report, that the stone was moved as the women were there. So let’s take a careful reading of the verses in question.


Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. (Mt. 28:1-2)

The event in verse 2 had already happened before the women arrived. They did not witness the earthquake or the angel rolling the stone. By the time they arrived the tomb, the stone was already rolled away. Matthew is only telling the readers how the stones was rolled away.


4. What happened after they left the tomb.

This is another area where we have a large degree of agreement between the Gospels. To varying degrees, the Gospels each report that the disciples were told. Or at least it was the intent to tell the disciples, which is all Matthew reveals. I will merge my explanation here with another seemingly contradiction which is who among the women saw Jesus.

If we study the accounts carefully, we can make the FF logical conclusion;

Mary Magdalene & the other women travel from Bethany to Jesus’ tomb.

Nearing the tomb, they notice the stone is rolled away. Mary runs to tell Peter and John while the rest of the women continued to the tomb.

With no corpse, empty tomb and encounter with strange men; the other women were initially shocked and took time for them to recover from these extraordinary encounter, until they got over their shock they told nobody.

Mary Magdalene returns to Jesus’ tomb with Peter and John.

Peter and John return to the house after seeing the empty tomb. Mary stays behind where she sees Jesus.

Afterwards, the other women returned to Bethany, stopping first in the city to report their findings to Clopas and other disciples. Thereafter, Jesus appears to the other women as they’re headed back to Bethany.

Another popular contradiction bible critics love to raise is the time the women visited the tomb which I will explain here.

All accounts indicate that it was early on the first day of the week. Matthew says it was as the day began to dawn. Mark, Luke and John all say “early”. The difficulty comes when we see John say that it was still dark, yet Mark say that the sun had risen.
Sunrise could vary in appearance depending on subjective observation. What is dark to some could be cloudy to another.
So these terms in reference to the same approximate time of day are not mutually exclusive.

Moreover, another explanation could be where the women journeyed from.
Earlier in the week some of the disciples lodged at Bethany, two miles from Jerusalem. It’s possible that the women were staying there for the Sabbath, and when John says it was “still dark”, he’s referring to the time they left Bethany and “went to the tomb”.
That’s more than enough time to go from “still dark” (Jn. 20:1) to “when the sun had risen” (Mk. 16:2).

You have successfully shown that the bible is not an inspired word of an omniscient deity. It is filled up with myths plagiarised/stolen from ancient civilisations. That is why there are so many contradictions and conflicting stories because the different stories were compressed into its present formats by the Romans and the Catholic Church at the various councils of Nicaea,Constantinople,and Ephesis amoung others. These were the meetings where the Romans and their collaborators in the early Church decided which of the various books circulating around were canonical and those that were heresy.
Those that the church selected became the books of the Bible while those not selected were left out.
You need to read a bit more. The books in the Bible were written by men!

englishmart:
2 chronicles 9:25 and 1 King 4:26 are obviously talking about the same thing, but they don't add up, or maybe I'm wrong.

2 chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had 4,000 stalls for horses and chariots and 12,000 horsemen"

2 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses for the chariots, and 12,000 men"

The semantics is befuddling. Could someone help me construe this?

This contradiction is minor now. Why not check out the Jesus resurrection stories in the four gospels which is supposed to be the foundation of Christianity.

These books were written by different anonymous scribes who claim to be writing under God's instructions/inspiration. Studying the Bible closely shows this is not true or why will an omnipotent and omniscient God dictate one thing to one scribe and dictate something staggeringly different to another. It doesn't just add up rationally.
The simple explanation is that most of these stories are myths,passed down orally for a long time before someone had a bright idea to write them down and create a religion. Some contradictions are due to how the oral stories were told to the scribes(obviously grossly exaggerated) while others stories were lost in translations.
Once you don't take these stories very seriously you will be alright.

Righthussle:
She's dope !

I tend to agree with you. I like the music and the catchy tune. The video will probably drive religious people mad!

YoshihideSuga:
That's not nice. Japanese, Chinese and Singaporeans smoke a lot, but never inside a train.

I've seen it on TFL District line in London.

MaxInDHouse:
Atheism simple means self-worship!

As long as you're truly open minded to reason about faith in God Christianity is the one and only true religion but the activities of false religionists claiming Christians have blurred the senses of people like you from seeing the light.
I was a Muslim before i became one of the true Christians: Jehovah's Witnesses
If you and i should sit together to reason about faith in God you will be surprised to see hidden treasures in real Christianity not what Arabs infused in the minds of our people only to make them worship their black stone in Mecca!

I have told you severally that YOU ARE A FRAUD!!
what is the difference between you and this crazy OP?
Don't you always go around claiming Jehovah Witness to be superior to all other Christian sects?
Don't you see atheists under your bed and in your dreams like this OP?
RUBBISH!!

TheMadame:
Good day.
I have recently read 1st Timothy chapter 2 verses 9-15. People always talk about the fact that this chapter of the Bible admonishes women to be silent in church and learn from their husbands but are silent on the part about women's dressing in particular braided hairstyles. Verse 9 is the verse on which I seek enlightenment.
I only seek knowledge not quarrel or insults please.


1st Timothy chapter 2 verses 9-15.

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

You must not braid your hair.
You must not wear clothing of two different colours.
You must not eat fish without scales.
You must not eat vegetables that do not grow above the ground.
You must not eat animals that do not chew cud.

YOUR GOD COMMANDED IT IN THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS!

Righthussle:
I am not a Christian. I don't believe in the Christian/Bible God at all. I don't practice any religion and I don't believe in heaven and hell, the biblical creation story etc but I love Christian gospel worship songs SO MUCH. What do you call people like me.

I do not profess to any religion but I used to be a Christian. I still hum Christian hymns occasionally because I used to be a Methodist and I attended a Methodist secondary school . That doesn't mean I believe the song I am humming.
At times a hum along to Islamic songs. It doesn't make me a Muslim.
Be free and enjoy your life. Don't guilt trip yourself over religion.

@iamrealdeji

Muhammad told his illiterate followers lots of half truths like how he flew on a flying horse from earth to heaven in one night where he claimed to have met many dead prophets and Allah himself.

He equally told the falsehood of how he split the moon into TWO separate parts.

I personally don't believe in religion but I telling you that all religion is full of falsehood,so when you become all sanctimonious and feel your religion is superior to other religions,people like myself will equally expose the falsehood in your so called religion you are trying to elevate.

Yes christianity is full of flaws but Islam is no better and equally full of flaws and errors.
I await your response.

I see a lot of whataboutism in the OP.
Why do you keep comparing because in comparing you are exposing Islam to ridicule.

How many times did Muhammed plead with all knowing Allah before he reduced the prayers to 5 times a day?
Muhammad has to travel back and forth and plead with an omniscient Allah to reduce daily prayers from 50 times a day to 5 times a day.
Muhammad has to convince omniscient Allah 9 times before he agrees to reduce prayers from 50 times a day to 5 times a day.
If Allah is omniscient does such an entity need its creation Muhammad to convince him on the number of prayers?

@iamrealdeji.

Judge for yourself if she is good or not.
Catchy old school tune.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4_9TFeMfJE?si=51e03WLGhMe7cdQs

sotall:


Smoking is normal in the western world.

That was one of the things that shocked me abroad.

You will see an old man or woman aided by walking stick smoking normally

You will see girls on the street/bus stops smoking without caution.


At work, your white colleagues take smoking breaks while on duty.

Na normal thing for that side.

On the tram/train, I have seen kids light up funny looking cigarettes and puffing out smoke indiscriminately without a care for co travellers.

GeneralPula:
“Some of the cargoes we were told have been there since 2011. What is the use of occupying that space? There is no economic advantage for keeping overtime cargoes for that long. We need to engage Customs to see the best way to evacuate them,” he said.

Wetin go make customs hold cargoes since 2011?

The cargoes were not detained by Customs but actually abandoned by the owners because the containers probably contain prohibited or infraction items which physical examination will reveal.
Apparently the cost of clearing a container that has been in the ports since 2011 is totally uneconomical to the owners because apart from the duty such containers would have attracted rent costs to NPA. Demurrage charges as well as shippers charges.

It is the duty of the Nigeria ports authority to transfer over time cargo from their sheds to the customs government warehouse but they probably did not do this because of the above mentioned demurrage and shipping charges.
These issues are complications backed by Nigeria laws which Mr Oyetola might not have received proper briefing by aides in his newly formed ministry.

Watch this. Hilarious 😂 😃



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt66kbYmXXk?si=w5RemadlM1fGgvgE

MaxInDHouse:
You're very close to the answer.

James, Peter and John saw Jesus been transfigured meaning this is the person whose voice will bring back all the dead. Matthew 17:1-9

So some among those standing that very day namely James, Peter and John actually saw him (like a vision) coming in his kingdom.

I have called you out several times. I repeat YOU ARE A FRAUD! YOU ARE A FALSE TEACHER! YOU ARE A LIAR!!!

IconicR:
I really wish this can hit front page once again.

The irony is that most of those who opposed him on this thread are now the so called obedients.
Thanks for posting the link page.

Dantedasz:
You are wasting your time with these guys. They are stuck on their ways in their delusion. No matter how logical you sound it is like madness to them. Just drop your piece and leave. Having an argument with them is like pouring water into a basket. A complete waste of your time because they will drag you down to their level of madness and beat you with the experience.

Thanks bro.
Cheers.

MaxInDHouse:
And who are you so called SCHOLARS?

So it was illiterate fishermen followers of Christ whose first language was Aramaic that went and wrote the four canonical gospels in sophisticated Greek language?
What kind of people am I having a discourse with bayi??
I am not responding to your ignorant asss again on this thread.
Which kind of arrogant ignorance is this for damnation sake??

I am done here!!!
How can I be having a discussion with ignorant Christians like Mad Max and SIRTee15 ??
They don't even know the history of their religious book for damn sake!!!

MaxInDHouse:
When making research you atheists are driven by your preconceived thought:

"There is no God"

So your IQ is tampered with.

Jesus didn't speak Aramaic rather he spoke the Hebrew language used in writing the first sets of books before the exiled Jews from Babylon returned. It's after they returned from Babylon that most of them began learning the language Moses and other prophets used to write their inspired books.

So by the time Jesus walked the earth it was the Greeks that reigned before the Romans gained dominance so most of the nations around the Mediterranean sea were speaking Greek that's why Jesus' disciples who wanted to spread the GOOD NEWS of God's Kingdom penned down their messages in the language that's wide spoken by many nations back then.

Later when Rome has gained power they used Latin (their own language) instead of Greek it's another strategy of strengthening themselves as many will be forced to learn the language of their rulers just as you are typing now in English.

So don't allow hearsay to becloud your sense of reasoning the gospel writers weren't the ones who named those books but those they handed over the books knew the one each writer wrote and they penned down their messages in the popular language back in their days: Greek!

Mad Max you are a fraud!!!
And a DISGRACE to Christians!!!

MaxInDHouse:
You're a real atheist!

Just calling people names simply because they refused to be molded by your thinking but at then you're hypocritically supporting the same people against another adherent of the same book you want to debunk!

Welcome to my world where my name reigns in the brains of those who have stylishly made themselves my fans by maligning my name always!

I have always known you as a fraud! You default mode is to be shouting ATHEIST!!! up and down when you encounter a superior argument all the time. It was on the Jehovah Witness founder thread I got to understand your former moniker was Maximus69-what a depraved name. 69 as in 69? Damn! 69 and preaching Jehovah Witness? Damn son!
It was there I saw people calling you Mad Max and I have to admit the moniker fits you to a pin 📌.

SIRTee15:
Consistent indeed!!!! It's like we need a new definition of consistency from u. Is this not u talking about 60 yrs gap, suddenly it's been debunked and next thing is to deny it
As I said, good thing u swallowed back your vomit

Were the gospel writers anonymous or not?
Did they write the gospels in Greek or in Aramaic?
Did the church elders fraudulently name these anonymous books after Mark,Luke, Matthew and John knowing these were not the real names of the authors
We're the gospels not written at least 60 years after the crucifixion?
Were any of these anonymous writers witnesses to the Christ ministry or did they rely on unreliable hear say to write these gospels?

MaxInDHouse:
When making research you atheists are driven by your preconceived thought:

"There is no God"

So your IQ is tampered with.

Jesus didn't speak Aramaic rather he spoke the Hebrew language used in writing the first sets of books before the exiled Jews from Babylon returned. It's after they returned from Babylon that most of them began learning the language Moses and other prophets used to write their inspired books.

So by the time Jesus walked the earth it was the Greeks that reigned before the Romans gained dominance so most of the nations around the Mediterranean sea were speaking Greek that's why Jesus' disciples who wanted to spread the GOOD NEWS of God's Kingdom penned down their messages in the language that's wide spoken by many nations back then.

Later when Rome has gained power they used Latin (their own language) instead of Greek it's another strategy of strengthening themselves as many will be forced to learn the language of their rulers just as you are typing now in English.

So don't allow hearsay to becloud your sense of reasoning the gospel writers weren't the ones who named those books but those they handed over the books knew the one each writer wrote and they penned down their messages in the popular language back in their days: Greek!

Mad Max,the fraud on the beat.

MaxInDHouse:
Talking about eyewitness of Jesus' execution all the four gospel accounts confirmed that John who was formerly a disciple of John the baptist became the most beloved among Jesus' closest confidants. This writer penned down a scenario that all the others omitted:

According to him when those sent to arrest Jesus got to Gethsemane with clubs, matchetts and swords the fearful appearance caught all the apostles unaware and they became really frightened but Jesus (having forgotten that he's on a death mission) angrily spoke but with a very strange voice that rendered all those evil men dead after regaining his consciousness he spoke with another voice and they all got up again with their weapons {John 18:1-9} with that Peter was confident that they've gotten a leader that's invincible so ready to fight he drew out his own sword and wanted to behead one of the attackers who tried to dodge but the sharp sword got his ear.
Of course Jesus once again healed that and told Peter such is unwarranted! John 18:10-11

Now if not recorded by an eyewitness do you think such could have been written?

Well the truth is that John who wrote that account was right there with the other eleven and very much awake than the rest who were tired and really sleepy. Matthew also recorded something similar at Matthew 26:40-56

These two gospel writers penned down their accounts like real eyewitnesses will do but there is a slight difference in what they wrote yet they both remembered vividly what really happened in their presence unlike the disciple Mark who got most of what happened that night from the things they told him. Mark 14:40-50

So just as i said earlier, during investigations we make sure that when compiling reports about an event our target is not to get witnesses whose narratives will all follow the same pattern that won't give us the clear picture of what really happened but you will notice that the police often catch both eyewitnesses and none eyewitnesses because some eyewitnesses may have left the scene of the event but they must have related the story in the presence of others. So if we're able to get eyewitnesses and some who also heard about the event we will get the clear picture after compilation of everything heard.

That's how professional investigations are carried out not just waiting for those that will come with the same pattern of narratives.

Honestly wallahi, you are a complete fraud!!!

SIRTee15:
Ok u've swallowed back your vomit that the gospels were written 60 yrs after the crucifixion of Jesus. Good.
Now we will examine the authorship of the gospel in detail.

Oga,
You are the one turning a pot of amala and trying to top it up with gbegiri soup. I on the other hand have been consistent that the gospels were written by anonymous people based on hearsay because none of the writers was a witness to the ministry. They only wrote based on he say,she say. None of them wrote in Jesus native tongue which is Aramaic. The gospels were written in GREEK language!
For reasons best known to the church elders they decided to attach the names Mathew, Mark, Luke and John to these anonymous books.

MaxInDHouse:
If Jehovah the true God and Jesus Christ God's son were all fraud to you then who is Maximus that you shouldn't call him a fraud?

Well I have beautifully and competently answered that question so if you're really interested go there and figure out what FOUNDER means and who truthfully is the FOUNDER of the world's most peaceful organization as foretold in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3

You be atheist nah, so if you're really sincere go to the thread and figure out the truth!

I rather enjoyed how you were totally exposed on that thread as a fraud! You were completely thrashed and you were dodging questions in your usual hypocritical way.
When the asked who founded your cult you were turning amala.
Your founder was exposed as a misogynist and a wife abuser,more turning of amala.
Your cult is a paradise for sexual abusers and sexual predators more amala and gbegiri soup.

In short Mad max you are a fraud!

Below is the thread for those who haven't seen it.
👇

https://www.nairaland.com/7817790/founder-jehovahs-witnesses-organization

SIRTee15:
All 4 gospels were written in the 1st century AD, one of the criteria used for their canonisation. They were written by people who knew Christ or met with people who knew Christ.
We have evidence that the gospel letters were very much around and publicly read in churches in the 1st century AD
The apostolic fathers were very much aware about the gospel. They quoted from it on their own writings. Apostolic fathers were early church leaders who didn't meet Jesus Christ but knew Jesus disciples in person.
They lived and were active in the 1st century AD.
Father papias mentioned Mathew actually wrote the gospel of Jesus in Hebrew. Polycarp, irenaeus and papias all confirmed John also wrote the gospel of Jesus which is the last of the four to be written.

There's a fragment of John gospel with us now and this has been dated to around ~AD 125!
The John Rylands Fragment (P52) is quite small—only 2.5 by 3.5 inches—and it contains John 18:31-33, 37-38.
This showed all the 4 gospels were likely written within the 1st century.

Moreover, we have texts written in the first century AD that quoted the gospel letters.
The Didache (AD 95) is most likely the earliest extra-biblical manuscript. In 8.2, the Didache quotes from Matthew’s version of the Lord’s Prayer (Mt. 6:5, 9-13).

Father Clement of Rome dates very early as well, because he mentions the Temple still standing in his letters. And Clement cites Matthew (1 Clement 13.2) and the other Synoptic Gospels (1 Clement 24.5; 46..

Oga, stop turning amala for us here. The point I am raising is that none of the four gospels were written by the names ascribed on them. The gospels were written in Greek and they were nameless/anonymous. At a point in time the elders of the early Christian Church fraudulently ascribed names of Apostles to these anonymous books!
There is NO reasonable and true scholar who attributes any of these books to any of the Hebrew followers of Jesus who knew him or were part of his ministry.
Know this and know peace.

MaxInDHouse:
No be atheist you be?

Even if you have no business with this topic you will chuk mouth just to malign God's word but i have no business with you my interest is the OP!

Who is the founder of Jehovah Witness cult?
Go to that thread,your expertise is needed there.
You are a fraud !

KanwuliaExtra:
What is your business?
I have noticed you.
And I have warned you severally, not to mention my posts.
You have nothing to contribute but nuisance factor.
As I catch my groove around NL, please avoid my posts.
Thanks!

I will not be theatened or intimidated by you or you ilk.
I don't come from a family of THIEVES OR ILLITERATES LIKE YOUR TIEFNUBU.
So buzzzzzzzzzzzz off!

Calloti the harlotti are you ashamed of your past? Were you not the one always telling us how you used to cheat on your husband with small small boys? Did you not tell us how you engaged in an open marriage?
Did you not tell us how your posie was always on fire?
Have you forgotten so soon? You are a sexually depraved character,so
how are you then better than Tinubu?

OneCandleAway:
Old timer.
You know calloti the harlotti

Yes now. If she likes let her change her name to Kanwulia1 to KanwuliaExtra,we old timers know her very well and what she os known for and useful for.Do you think Calotti the self acclaimed harlotii can have a brain that comprehends politics?
Since I have known her here,it is only nudity,sex and open marriage She is known for...

TheMadame:
I am going to tell you something today,you don't come to another person's thread and try to bully your ideas onto them. You explain your argument and points succinctly and carefully. If you have a superior point, everyone will acknowledge and accept that superior argument and learn from it. As such everyone learns and gains from it.

You on the other hand have come here and been a bully trying to force me to accept what is not correct. Only a blind person or a religious famatic would argue in a weak and watery way that there are no discrepancy in the way the resurrection stories are told in the gospels. From the time,to how the event occurred,to the personalities involved,to whether the women told the Apostles or they kept quiet about it. Discrepancies run through the four stories.

It even makes a lot more sense to even say the difference stems from translations.
Not to come here and bully that there is no discrepancy. You need to check some of my threads here. I am a Christian but I am not a mindless one who does not ask questions.

👍👍👍👍👍

KanwuliaExtra:
One thing is certain. . .HE IS A CRIMINAL.
Is he a smart criminal or a foolish criminal?

Calloti, I have advised you severally this political issues are above and beyond your level of intelligence. Stick to talking about three somes,open marriage and menage a troi. That is your level,certainly not politics. Look at how you are rambling and repeating yourself like a broken record.
Rubbish!!!

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ why not calm down and learn?

If people tell stories of what happened does it mean they have to relate it immediately as it's happening?

Of course all of them wrote their stories after the destruction of Jerusalem which happened around 66 ce. What most critics like you failed to realize is that 66 ce doesn't translate to 66 years after the events rather subtract the years Jesus spent on the planet which is 33 out of 66 which gives you 33 years after Jesus' death, resurrection and ascension.

So they wrote their accounts many years after Jesus has left when they've scattered far away from Jerusalem.

You are a fraud!
This was the same kind of lies you were spreading on the founder of Jehovah Witnesses thread yesterday.
I repeat NONE of the canonical gospels was written less than 60 years after the crucifixion and non of them in the Aramaic language of Christ's nativity. All these gospels were written in GREEK language. Non of the gospels were titled, they were ALL anonymously written and the names and titles were added by elders of the early Church for easy identification.

@ the OP,
The reason why the resurrection accounts differ is probably because they were not written by eye Witnesses to Christ's ministry . The accounts were written over 60 years after the crucifixion and as such oral accounts after over 60 years are bound to be distorted!