₦airaland Forum

Pharoh: It is best you ignore people who are abusive and uncultured in a public discussion like him, i only give one warning and that is it for me.

tanx broda

oturugo: Ok you hate pig, I will call you monkey instead untill you stop your imbecility.
You are yet to define Igbo yet you call me Igbo. I like that and a proud one, but you have failed to convince any one that Abohs are not Igbo like me regardless of the partition caused by the Niger river.
What other truth do you want readers here to accept?, that since the end of Biafran war, those who live in the east of the great river are only called Igbos. Monkey, seek a doctor for your cure. You are sick.

cursor on 'ignore that Igbo man'. Action: double click left cursor key. DONE. Yipee!!! No more nna talk here

wesley80: I think its pitiable that your definition of "Igbo" seems to be a group of people in a particular geographical location who advocated for a separate state called Biafra and were defeated in a civil war! Or Perhaps I didnt get you correctly? Do you really believe a people as diverse as the Igbos can be defined merely by their 'way of thought' or political disposition?
Can you prove that the Aboh people were anti-secession as you alluded to in your post? Are you sure Aboh's neutrality wasnt as a result of Her geographical location? Compare Her experience with that of Nndoni just across the Niger. What if Aboh had been located a bit more up-River say in the present location of Onitsha, do you think Aboh would have stayed neutral?
I wonder what you mean in saying the war turned them into something we arent, if you're referring to the enterprise of most Igbos I'll ascribe that to mans natural survival instinct and if you were referring to 'Political disposition', I believe thats subjective and depends on who you're talking to. I didi my undergraduate studies in the East and I had friends that didnt think Ojukwu a hero or embraced the 'Biafra Cause' just like myself and those are views I and them remain unapologetic about so by your definition they are what? Perhaps you need to be a lil bit more explicit.
Concerning Afa ekenem, I'll pretend I dont know why you asked for it and tell you my Grandma calls me 'Asu Ike bu Eze' but I grew up bearing 'Agha eli Osa'. i suppose yours is Omordi no?

Agha eli Osa 1. I respect ur maturity and knowledge. But lets look at it this way. Suppose Aboh was at the location of onitsha wud we hv been pro-biafra? Probably, but we r not at that location. Cud our location hv affected our integration with d Igbos? Yes. Location changes people's destiny. And if u read the history of Igbo, u'd realise tht the various clans tht make up the Igbo ethnic identity today were not united until during the English colonization. Matter of fact, thr was no Igbo before d 20th century. Unificatn of the Igbos was gradual nd as Nigeria became defined the people of the S/E, to strengthen their position saw d need to unite. If Aboh was truely united wit the Igbos before d civil war i bet u they wud hv laid their lives for the Biafra course, forget location. The reason y some 'igboid clans' pulled out of Biafra is not purely location but the Igbo ethnogenesis was stil in d process, Igbo was not fully defined. After the war it was easy to define the true Igbo by the scar of the war. Thr is no Igbo family today without dark war memories. It is imprinted in their DNA and is a strong definition of Today's Igbo. The war doesnt fully define the Igbos but it largely does. Sometimes i ponder, wud it hv been better if Abohs unified wit Igbos. Sometimes, maybe most times my answer is yes. Tht i know is ur position. But these tins r not just a 'o we want to be Igbos' thing. Many factors r involved nd most of those natural factors keep alienating u from them and uniting us wit our south south neighbours.

oturugo: Piggy, you are fighting so hard to disrupt the good relationship of Aboh people and their fellow Igbo brothers. Through a proud Aboh nairalander,some eastern Igbos have learnt Aboh dialect and some Abohs have leart other Igbo dialects. Being Igbo doesn't make one loose anything in modern day Nigeria. Rather it promotes unity and love.
But pigs like you are only interested in division and confusion. Get a life pig.

Oturugo the Igbo man, the good relationship between Abohs nd Igbos should be based on the truth not on sentiments. Its actually in the best interest of u Igbos tht the truth be exposed. BTW, d last place i read someone addressin humans as pigs is the Quran and here we r 1400yrs later and u Oturugo, an Igbo man doing d same. Quit livin in d dark ages

wesley80: B
Here lies the problem; POLITICS, dirty petty POLITICS. I'll tell you a story.
There was an Aboh teacher by name Wayas, (Not sure there's an Aboh man that went through Aboh Grammar School and doesnt know Wayas - I didnt but I've heard legendary tales) he went to the farm one day and stumbled on some eggs belonging to some kind of bird but wasnt sure which so he took the eggs home and laid them alongside those of his chicken that was hatching its eggs also. fortunately, 2 of the eggs hatched and they probably(Not sure any longer) belonged to a kite and they all watched them grow alongside the chicks and the mother did fend for them as she did her chicks and they matured and had feathers all over then one day while everyone watched, one of the birds just shook its wings and took to flight, it didnt stop till it was out of sight and while a section believed it would come back b4 nightfall some said it wont - it never did and I dont have to tell you where the other bird ended up the next day do i? yes, in some metal pot!
Moral of the story, I am what I am and wont be defined by what anyone thinks or how they feel, what I am is what I'll be regardless of what anyone thinks. The board here is the culture board and we'd be best served to treat it as such else we'll dabble into somewhere we shouldnt be with raw and unwantted sentiments like your subsequent posts reveal brought to the fore. lets stay cultural please.

i totally agree wit u except tht our politics is influenced strongly by our culture. I actually don't give much damn about Nigeria's politics.

wesley80: I think its pitiable that your definition of "Igbo" seems to be a group of people in a particular geographical location who advocated for a separate state called Biafra and were defeated in a civil war! Or Perhaps I didnt get you correctly? Do you really believe a people as diverse as the Igbos can be defined merely by their 'way of thought' or political disposition?
Can you prove that the Aboh people were anti-secession as you alluded to in your post? Are you sure Aboh's neutrality wasnt as a result of Her geographical location? Compare Her experience with that of Nndoni just across the Niger. What if Aboh had been located a bit more up-River say in the present location of Onitsha, do you think Aboh would have stayed neutral?
I wonder what you mean in saying the war turned them into something we arent, if you're referring to the enterprise of most Igbos I'll ascribe that to mans natural survival instinct and if you were referring to 'Political disposition', I believe thats subjective and depends on who you're talking to. I didi my undergraduate studies in the East and I had friends that didnt think Ojukwu a hero or embraced the 'Biafra Cause' just like myself and those are views I and them remain unapologetic about so by your definition they are what? Perhaps you need to be a lil bit more explicit.
Concerning Afa ekenem, I'll pretend I dont know why you asked for it and tell you my Grandma calls me 'Asu Ike bu Eze' but I grew up bearing 'Agha eli Osa'. i suppose yours is Omordi no?

yea Omordi, but thts more lyk a general greeting for.......(u knw who) but i prefer d one my grandma calls me, Azu ka ego

wesley80: I think its pitiable that your definition of "Igbo" seems to be a group of people in a particular geographical location who advocated for a separate state called Biafra and were defeated in a civil war! Or Perhaps I didnt get you correctly? Do you really believe a people as diverse as the Igbos can be defined merely by their 'way of thought' or political disposition?
Can you prove that the Aboh people were anti-secession as you alluded to in your post? Are you sure Aboh's neutrality wasnt as a result of Her geographical location? Compare Her experience with that of Nndoni just across the Niger. What if Aboh had been located a bit more up-River say in the present location of Onitsha, do you think Aboh would have stayed neutral?
I wonder what you mean in saying the war turned them into something we arent, if you're referring to the enterprise of most Igbos I'll ascribe that to mans natural survival instinct and if you were referring to 'Political disposition', I believe thats subjective and depends on who you're talking to. I didi my undergraduate studies in the East and I had friends that didnt think Ojukwu a hero or embraced the 'Biafra Cause' just like myself and those are views I and them remain unapologetic about so by your definition they are what? Perhaps you need to be a lil bit more explicit.
Concerning Afa ekenem, I'll pretend I dont know why you asked for it and tell you my Grandma calls me 'Asu Ike bu Eze' but I grew up bearing 'Agha eli Osa'. i suppose yours is Omordi no?

yea Omordi, but thts more lyk a general greeting for.......(u knw who) but i prefer d one my grandma calls me, Azu ka ego

oturugo: Wes80 asked you to define Igboness for him and you ignorantly used the Biafran war to define Igboness. Na wa for you ooh.
Grow some brains biko.

Its understandable that u wud be blind to all i said in tht same post b4 d war part. I know y, its the war again and u, Oturugbo are IGBO

Pharoh: This is one of the reasons we do not want to be yoked with you, instead of you to discuss like an adult in relation to what you have above. Rejecting the anioma, ukwuani or ndokwa identity is not the issue for us because at the end of the day the binding force is not really about the above classification but part of my earlier write up. You did not get it the same way you still cannot understand why we are moving away from the igbo identity.

thanks, esp for the first sentence above. I hv been tempted to use that same line for that Igbo man but i've bin restraining myself. And i askd myself, y is he so sensitive, i realised d answer but yet again restrained myself until Wesley, a supposed Aboh man cowed. I was forced to speak out and blame the rush of blood to his head on the war, yes its the war my broda, its effect defines them today. Oturugo is IGBO

oturugo: CLEFSTONE, answer this question and stop running round in circles.

I hv answered the questn but it seem obvious you can't read between lines.

Pharoh: Very good reply as you pointed to one of the reasons some Aniomas do not want to be in the same union with them. The basis of being in a union goes beyond speaking a related language or having similarities in culture. Canada and USA both speak the English language but they did not form the same country, they can only tilt towards a form of union based on concrete things that goes beyond language. People should take a look at other unions in the world to see what really lies at the foundation but the people of south eastern region just do not want to understand these important issues.

There are other things like ideology, aspirations, common self determination goal, development focus, basis of identity and value system, etc that are important in forming a union or identifying yourself with other groups of people in a common name. To them it is because the civil war was lost, need to be on the defeating side and means of integrating into the new Nigeria ( post civil war) that was biased towards the eastern region and Igbo people in general. Please wake up, it might look that way to you but when you come down of your high horse to ask the core reasons the Aniomas wants to be alone then you will get the concrete answers.

Let me stop here by asking again that, leaving politics aside ( You guys are not even competent self ) please can you guys tell us the basis in which Aniomas should be in the same union with you guys or the basis that will make the union work as one effective unit?. Why is it compulsory to be under the igbo identity and not Anioma identity?, Norwegians and danish people speak almost the same language but have their own different countries with excellent cooperation under the Nordic union. The same can be for Anioma and Biafra so that they can both develop in a union made up of different units instead of forming one big identity that will be difficult to move forward.

N:B You can replace aboh with anioma in my write up

And a question for my broda, Mr Wesley, assuming an Aboh man becomes president tomorrow, do u think tht the Igbos will see him as an true Igbo president? note tht GEJ's name is Ebele nd more recently Azikiwe, does tht make him an Igbo president? I am a realist to the core and wud neva be heard supporting a union based on psychophancy, one tht wud definitely end in betrayal.

wesley80: As an Aboh man, I had little choice but to suspend my self imposed Nairaland exile on sighting this thread. Its been a while and I hope you guys can forgive me for not reading the entire thread before posting (maybe I'll do so in a little while). I've noticed loads of falsities in this thread and maybe we'll go into them later.
To the OP, I say; I've fought this battle a dozen times and I tell you, it is ultimately pointless! Aboh's Bini ties and heritage can only be denied but so also is Aboh's 'Igboness'. It is simply too late to be anything else and we've got to learn to live with it. I understand where you're coming from but it would also do you a whole of good to take a look at the full picture. BTW, i'm interested in your definition of an "Igbo"

The definition of Igbo is a loose one and has been evolving since colonial times. Not minding our origin, Abohs could easily hv been part of the Igbo identity but for the events of the 60s. Nothing has united and defined the Igbos more than the civil war and once the Abohs were neutral/anti-seccession, it became difficult to identify wit the evolving Igbo identity. Today, you, Mr Wesley cannot reason lyk an Igbo man. That war made them into sometin we r not. By d way i wud lyk to know ur 'afa kene' so i can greet u as an Aboh man

pazienza: Don't give him any inch, he would take a mile before you know it. Esumai was not a bini man, he was a bini resident, he was probably an igbo man. I had given my reasons for thinking so. No one has yet established that esumai was a bini man, until they do that, i would still hold to my conclusion.

Esumai was a Bini resident. How convenient for the people of Aboh to know that they migrated from Benin to Aboh but only forgot the fact tht their founding fathers were only residents of Benin. And along comes Pazienza, 400 yrs after Esumai in a brilliant eureka moment telling us wht we missed. Nyc one but try again, u've not determined d volume of the king's crown yet

pazienza: Well, don't speak for Aboh, speak for yourself and your Urhobo family, at least now we are getting the truth small small from you. You claimed you are a descendant of Esumai? i laugh in urhobo.

In nairaland here, we have a proud Aboh and igbi guy,by the name Wesley80, go search for his posts here. And please, don't even speak for Ukwuanu, you can't be more ukwuani than Ali chukwuma, arguably the most popular ukwuani man, and yet,he was a proud Igbo man.

Just speak for yourself and your urhobo family. thank you.

I'm not here to do an 'I am more Aboh than you' contest. Bigger than tht mate and if i need an Aboh person to talk to i dnt need a nairalander

pazienza: Well, don't speak for Aboh, speak for yourself and your Urhobo family, at least now we are getting the truth small small from you. You claimed you are a descendant of Esumai? i laugh in urhobo.

In nairaland here, we have a proud Aboh and igbi guy,by the name Wesley80, go search for his posts here. And please, don't even speak for Ukwuanu, you can't be more ukwuani than Ali chukwuma, arguably the most popular ukwuani man, and yet,he was a proud Igbo man.

Just speak for yourself and your urhobo family. thank you.

I'm not here to do an 'I am more Aboh than you' contest. Bigger than tht mate

bigfrancis21: Please, what's the name, tonality and verb form of the so-called original Aboh language? Why don't you have a single Aboh person who speaks the 'original' Aboh language or some form of Edo language? At least, Fulani as a language is still spoken by many Fulanis, in addition to the more pervasive Hausa. Why can't the same be said for Aboh?

Just as Esumai's Bini is still spoken by many Binis. No single Nupe or Kwara royalty speak Fulani even though they r of Fulani ancestry

bigfrancis21: . He's just jumping from this to that. Look at the bolded below, he doesn't even know what he's saying! Ochi ekwero m!



The statement bolded above totally renders all his previous statements worthless. His reasoning lacks substance, value, rigidity and logic. From his level of reasoning, he's still a teenager, probably a young adult not more than 25.

Of course u know i meant to use d word 'ancestors'. Have u ever been to Aboh? Do u know whr Aboh is? Have u met an Aboh person before? Are u a historian? On wht basis do u now speak about the origin of Aboh? Congrats for being an 'old man'

Odenigbo Aroli: But fulani is still spoken in northern Nigeria and wherever it isn't spoken there is a good knowledge the language went extinct because of the more popular hausa language. Now,I want you to tell me of any lost dialect in Aboh. By the way we have Aboh village in my town in Idenmili.

Truth is that there was no lost language because there was never a language other than Igbo!

Are we not sayin d same tin? Just as Uthman Dan Fodio's Fulani descendants lost their language because of d popular hausa, so too did Esumai's descendants lose theirs due to the popular Igbo language in d region they settled

bigfrancis21: Isn't the below what you claimed?





Now you're beginning to speak the truth. The same Esumai of a person was a Bini King sent out by the Oba of Benin to colonize Aboh, which he arrived and met an already Igbo-speaking people in numbers. A people of which he reigned over using the Edo kingship style, and after which he was succeeded by his son, grandson and so on.

and just in case u do not know, Fulanis dialect is totally different from Hausa

bigfrancis21: Isn't the below what you claimed?





Now you're beginning to speak the truth. The same Esumai of a person was a Bini King sent out by the Oba of Benin to colonize Aboh, which he arrived and met an already Igbo-speaking people in numbers. A people of which he reigned over using the Edo kingship style, and after which he was succeeded by his son, grandson and so on.

from my analogy, d fulanis like d Abohs conquered, colonized, settled and lost their Fulani dialect while livin with nd ruling d locals

kwangi: Anytime I come to the culture section and see this thread, something always snaps in me.
When this Clefstone dude started this thread, I ignored it believing it will be ignored, but alas, it's still here!


God know say if to say I be mod for here, I go shut down this goddamned thread.
I don't know for you guys, but this is really embarrassing and shameful.

I think threads of this nature should be totally ignored in the future.

nd if u were president u'd be like Hitler nd kill evrybody like me, abi?

Abagworo: What I mean is that you can only be Igbo when you
accept being one. Abohs, Ikas etc. might not accept being Igbo but the language betrays them and is
a deep cause for concern and makes their claim of being
minority suspicious to the real minorities. This leaves
them in a complex situation and could make them deny links to Southeasterners in order to prove to the other
minorities that they are not part of these (Igbo)people.
It's like in the USA where there are fewer Eastern
Europeans who usually try to claim minority even when
Blacks and Hispanics clearly see that they are White.
They will need extra efforts and even aggression to
prove to Blacks and Hispanics that they are not
Westerners but just happened to be White.


Now @poster read this and understand how the real minorities feel about you and your likes trying to cling on to them.

http://www.waado.org/nigerdelta/essays/politics/
SagayOnDeltaCapital.html

August 1991 when Babangida used the Delta State
Capital to pay his bride price to his Anioma in-laws.
When I was invited to Asaba in May 1999 to give the
hand over lecture from Military dictatorship to Civilian
democratic government, and was asked by the out-going
Military Administrator, Commander Feghabo, what I
thought of the fact that only the southern Delta,
particularly the Urhobos have so far produced civilian
Governors for Delta State, my reply was simple. 'Delta
State' is constituted by two States, Delta proper and
Anioma. As long as the Delta Capital remains in
Anioma,the Governors will come from the real Delta.
Inspite of castigations in the press, by the Asagba of
Asaba, and some other Anioma elites, I have remained
firm in my views. The best solution is for the two entities
to separate into two states with the Delta State Capital
being at Warri. Anioma can then be a state with its
capital at Asaba. Alternatively, Anioma can join Anambra
State and become a member of the South Eastern group
of states to which it truly belongs.


This ends my contribution to this thread. There's nothing a dog can do for cats to believe he's not a dog including eating his fellow dog.

Abagworo: What I mean is that you can only be Igbo when you
accept being one. Abohs, Ikas etc. might not accept being Igbo but the language betrays them and is
a deep cause for concern and makes their claim of being
minority suspicious to the real minorities. This leaves
them in a complex situation and could make them deny links to Southeasterners in order to prove to the other
minorities that they are not part of these (Igbo)people.
It's like in the USA where there are fewer Eastern
Europeans who usually try to claim minority even when
Blacks and Hispanics clearly see that they are White.
They will need extra efforts and even aggression to
prove to Blacks and Hispanics that they are not
Westerners but just happened to be White.


Now @poster read this and understand how the real minorities feel about you and your likes trying to cling on to them.

http://www.waado.org/nigerdelta/essays/politics/
SagayOnDeltaCapital.html

August 1991 when Babangida used the Delta State
Capital to pay his bride price to his Anioma in-laws.
When I was invited to Asaba in May 1999 to give the
hand over lecture from Military dictatorship to Civilian
democratic government, and was asked by the out-going
Military Administrator, Commander Feghabo, what I
thought of the fact that only the southern Delta,
particularly the Urhobos have so far produced civilian
Governors for Delta State, my reply was simple. 'Delta
State' is constituted by two States, Delta proper and
Anioma. As long as the Delta Capital remains in
Anioma,the Governors will come from the real Delta.
Inspite of castigations in the press, by the Asagba of
Asaba, and some other Anioma elites, I have remained
firm in my views. The best solution is for the two entities
to separate into two states with the Delta State Capital
being at Warri. Anioma can then be a state with its
capital at Asaba. Alternatively, Anioma can join Anambra
State and become a member of the South Eastern group
of states to which it truly belongs.


This ends my contribution to this thread. There's nothing a dog can do for cats to believe he's not a dog including eating his fellow dog.

I hv neva claimed to be Urhobo or bini. Even though my mum is urhobo, u'l neva hear it coming from me tht i'm Urhobo. My decendants were binis, I am Aboh by tribe and based on d process of ethnogenesis can be grouped as an Ukwuani. Thr is no complexity except in ur imaginatn. That we r in Delta state today is cos of 2 factors,
1. Boundary issue
2. Historically, we hv been more intimately linked with the people around the Niger Delta than those to the east of d Niger
NB. I'm speaking from an Aboh/ukwuani perspective, not from an Anioma's

bigfrancis21: That isn't the link I requested. What I requested was the link to a verifiable source supporting your claim of an Igbo-led colonialism on Aboh land.

Yes. The link between both places is the town name usage of an oldtime Igbo name of yore, 'Aboh'. I just remembered now that a village close to my mom's village in Oji River Enugu state also bears 'Aboh'. All these goes a long way to indicate that Aboh is an authentic Igbo town.

I've also noticed another trend among these Edo-clinging groups in tracing their lineage using Edo kings. It is quite clear that the Benin empire had a large territory, expanding all the way to Lagos and western Igboland(Anioma). Several edoid groups were also under this Benin influence such as the Afemai, Esan, Urhobo, Isoko etc. The Benin empire wielded a great influence but didn't find it imperative to spread their language or impose their language on their acquired territories like the British. It seems that Edo language remained as a royal language and was learned as a second language by subdued groups when they visited Benin to communicate with the Obas on Benin and his subjects. During the reign, the Benin empire sent out their representatives to their acquired territories to reign as kings over them, thus maintaining its influence. These benin-blooded kings brought with them the Edo-style of Kingship to the anioma areas they reigned over and they settled in their new foreign territories, only reporting to the King of Benin when necessary. And after each king reigned successfully, his own son took over. With time these kings had descendants who assimilated into the language and culture of the greater populace they found themselves in, while still retaining their Bini surnames(family name) and maybe first name.

This, however, doesn't in no way conjure up to mean that these kings founded these anioma areas. These kings met an already existing Igbo sub group over which they wielded their influence using the Edo kingship style, given the lack of an existing Kingship structure among many Igbo sub groups.

The British people were great colonialists. They expanded their territories by acquiring more territories and sending out their people to lord over the natives. Nigeria was colonized by Britain. And we had series of British 'Kings' who ruled over Nigeria for so many years in quick succession. That doesn't mean they found Nigeria empty. And that doesn't equally mean that we should turn around and claim british ancestry through the British Kings that ruled over us for decades before independence. It would be very laughable for Nigerians to turn
around tomorrow and start claiming British ancestry just because we had British Kings therefore, we are British people. It would also be very absurd
to speculate that an Edo group of people arrived an Igbo-speaking area, drove away the Igbo people and settled there, but yet lost their language to Igbo - the language of the people they chased away! Such logic is flawed. No matter how you try to defend that logic or come up with some imaginary explanation for that, the logic is heavily flawed because history repeats itself. And never in the annals of history has it been recorded that an invading colonial group invaded a land, chased away its natives, settled there and yet lost their own original language and started speaking the language of the natives of which they pursued away and had no contact with again after their exile. Its either there was no such type of invasion actually or that these foreign people who were few in numbers to actually subdue a greater population journeyed into a new language territory, were taken in, and with time assimilated WILLINGLY into the greater population.In history, all invading groups all maintained their language. The English people invaded America, chased away the native indians, settled there and maintained their English language. The Spanish people who led great and far-reaching conquests invaded new areas(Mexico, Uruguay, Paraguay etc) chased away many of the natives, or intermarried with them and maintained Spanish. The same goes for French, Portuguese, and German. The descendants of the Dutch people who invaded South Africa still today speak a Dutch creole, which is reminiscent of their Dutch ancestry. Why can't the same be said for any of these so-called Edo-clinging groups in Delta state? If these people claim to be from Edo, the Edo language should still be spoken somehow, even if its a corruption of Edo, in Anioma. Yet that is non-existent.

Edo kings may have ruled in some anioma areas, that doesn't negate the fact that these people were and still are an original igbo stock who happened to have a foreign king from the Benin empire.

bigfrancis21: That isn't the link I requested. What I requested was the link to a verifiable source supporting your claim of an Igbo-led colonialism on Aboh land.

Yes. The link between both places is the town name usage of an oldtime Igbo name of yore, 'Aboh'. I just remembered now that a village close to my mom's village in Oji River Enugu state also bears 'Aboh'. All these goes a long way to indicate that Aboh is an authentic Igbo town.

I've also noticed another trend among these Edo-clinging groups in tracing their lineage using Edo kings. It is quite clear that the Benin empire had a large territory, expanding all the way to Lagos and western Igboland(Anioma). Several edoid groups were also under this Benin influence such as the Afemai, Esan, Urhobo, Isoko etc. The Benin empire wielded a great influence but didn't find it imperative to spread their language or impose their language on their acquired territories like the British. It seems that Edo language remained as a royal language and was learned as a second language by subdued groups when they visited Benin to communicate with the Obas on Benin and his subjects. During the reign, the Benin empire sent out their representatives to their acquired territories to reign as kings over them, thus maintaining its influence. These benin-blooded kings brought with them the Edo-style of Kingship to the anioma areas they reigned over and they settled in their new foreign territories, only reporting to the King of Benin when necessary. And after each king reigned successfully, his own son took over. With time these kings had descendants who assimilated into the language and culture of the greater populace they found themselves in, while still retaining their Bini surnames(family name) and maybe first name.

This, however, doesn't in no way conjure up to mean that these kings founded these anioma areas. These kings met an already existing Igbo sub group over which they wielded their influence using the Edo kingship style, given the lack of an existing Kingship structure among many Igbo sub groups.

The British people were great colonialists. They expanded their territories by acquiring more territories and sending out their people to lord over the natives. Nigeria was colonized by Britain. And we had series of British 'Kings' who ruled over Nigeria for so many years in quick succession. That doesn't mean they found Nigeria empty. And that doesn't equally mean that we should turn around and claim british ancestry through the British Kings that ruled over us for decades before independence. It would be very laughable for Nigerians to turn
around tomorrow and start claiming British ancestry just because we had British Kings therefore, we are British people. It would also be very absurd
to speculate that an Edo group of people arrived an Igbo-speaking area, drove away the Igbo people and settled there, but yet lost their language to Igbo - the language of the people they chased away! Such logic is flawed. No matter how you try to defend that logic or come up with some imaginary explanation for that, the logic is heavily flawed because history repeats itself. And never in the annals of history has it been recorded that an invading colonial group invaded a land, chased away its natives, settled there and yet lost their own original language and started speaking the language of the natives of which they pursued away and had no contact with again after their exile. Its either there was no such type of invasion actually or that these foreign people who were few in numbers to actually subdue a greater population journeyed into a new language territory, were taken in, and with time assimilated WILLINGLY into the greater population.In history, all invading groups all maintained their language. The English people invaded America, chased away the native indians, settled there and maintained their English language. The Spanish people who led great and far-reaching conquests invaded new areas(Mexico, Uruguay, Paraguay etc) chased away many of the natives, or intermarried with them and maintained Spanish. The same goes for French, Portuguese, and German. The descendants of the Dutch people who invaded South Africa still today speak a Dutch creole, which is reminiscent of their Dutch ancestry. Why can't the same be said for any of these so-called Edo-clinging groups in Delta state? If these people claim to be from Edo, the Edo language should still be spoken somehow, even if its a corruption of Edo, in Anioma. Yet that is non-existent.

Edo kings may have ruled in some anioma areas, that doesn't negate the fact that these people were and still are an original igbo stock who happened to have a foreign king from the Benin empire.

i neva claimed of an igbo led colonizatn of Aboh. I actually talked about an Esumai(a Bini man) led colonisation of wht is the area now called Aboh which u can see in my link above. This is the known and acceptable history of Aboh. Any other idea, no matter hw intelligent it might seem can only be passed as speculative.

bigfrancis21: The Igbo peoples have never been known to be colonialists. What you just wrote up there is absurd. The Igbo peoples today were not called Igbos 100 years ago, how much more 200 or 300 years ago when your supposed 'Igbo colonialism' took place. Each sub group identified by their clan name. Why then are you pointing accusatory fingers at the 'Igbos' as if there was a tribe called Igbo 300 years ago? Why don't you ever drop any sources or links that verifies your made-up tales? I remember asking you for one before, you smartly dodged my post and went on making up false history for yourself. Were you there when your so-called Igbo colonialism took place? How did you know it happened?

I've been silently reading your posts and I've noticed that you keep making up fables just to suit your beliefs. A thousand and one sources can be posted here that indicates the Igbo ancestry of the Abohs, yet you choose to ignore them and rather cling on to some fabricated history you've made for yourself. So many things point to a pure Igbo ancestry of the Aboh. Aboh is found in Delta state and also far away in Aboh-Mbaise in Imo state. Again, you smartly turned a blind eye to this fact and chose to ignore it. Assuming Aboh was a name of a town in Igala land or Edo land, you'll be all over nairaland shouting and yelling how Aboh is of Igala ancestry or Edo ancestry. Why can't you just drop 3 sources that supports your tales? Even the grandfathers and grandmothers of Aboh who hold the oral history of Aboh wouldn't say all these tales you keep making here, but here you are reveling in the fun of it.

Its clear you simply created this thread not to learn but to engage in needless argument.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboh
i neva thot i wud need a link to talk about my own ancestry. By d way, is thr any link between Aboh-Mbaise nd Aboh?

tonychristopher: Ogo m pls tell me apart from langauage and cultural practice ! Which igbos share what difference. And tell me one cos culturally my wife and me share same

Ok how did igbo so colonised aboh that they dumped their ancestral language and speak igbo! Atleast Brits colonised us and we still maintain our language same with Rome colonised Brits but they still maintain their language . Is aboh case different or is it a case of collective amnesia


Another thing go ask ijaw edo and IgAlla which tribe is aboh and ukwuani then tell me the name and meaning of the town


I need convinction not speculation


I love my wife and maturity .... Its an urhobo woman that told me they are igbo first time I met her before we started speaking our igbo

Nna don't be a minority biko

To explain hw the Abohs lost our language nd adopted Igbo, i'l use the example of the sokoto jihad of the 19th century(less than 200yrs ago). A result of the Fulani's successful conquer of many local northern tribes was the establishment of Emirates in most of the northern part of present day Nigeria. In each of these Emirates, Fulanis were installed as Emirs and many Fulanis settled in them. Til this day, only descendants of the Fulani ruling houses r eligible to become Emirs in these places. Guess what? These people today can't speak the Fulani language even though they know they r Fulanis, they mostly speak Hausa, d commercial language of d north, and the languages of those tribes. This is exactly wht happened to the Abohs.

tonychristopher: The monkey said that she cannot vouch for the child she is carrying on her back why cos he might pluck fruit along the way but can only vouch for her UNborn baby

My wife calls her self igbo and oputa and nzeribe is a common igbo names that even anambra bear it

Do Me a favour google ukwuani or ask any tribe be it edo whom you want to attach which tribe is igbo

In my wife place they all marry igbos none I mean none married edo they say that they don't have any common grounds with them

Say I am not igbo not ukwuani are not igbo and tell Me the meaning of aboh and ukwuani

Do you know we have aboh in IMO

To say in your wife's place they ALL marry Igbos and don't marry Edos is a fallacy except u can prove tht no Kwale person has ever married an Edo which i know is a big lie. Abohs r neither Igbos nor Edos. As at the time of the expedition, Aboh was a kingdom with Aboh as d headqtr nd the Obi as the sovereign. Your wife's kwale was part of the Aboh kingdom at tht time tht is why they neva had an independent ruler until maybe recently. Kwale til this day has no Obi. Today tins r not exactly d same, many of d clans tht made up d kingdom r now independent.

Odenigbo Aroli: Igala and Idoma boader Igbo to the north,they borrowed,cultures from the Igbo,intermarried with the Igbo,traded with the Igbo and lived amongst the Igbo but their language was never altered. The Igbo must posses some extraordinary supreme powers to have really transformed Aboh from Benin to Igbo over night eventhough there was no Igbo settlement there or they were chased out. Then again how can someone you defeated and chased out can turn around dominate and influence their culture on you to the point that there is close to zero traces of your original identity. They run around calling us Igbon(whatever that means) with no kingdom yet its our culture that dominated their and gave them identity.

both situations r different. The Idomas nd Igalas hv remained in their ancestral origin. The Abohs left home to hundreds of miles away and had to live among people of other tribe.

tonychristopher: Aboh is an igbo word and we have another aboh in IMO state

Oputa is an igbo word and we anambra bear it also plus IMO and kwale so are we not igbo

What are your market days
What do you call : God
What do you call land
What do you call food
What do you call today
What do you call man
What do you call chair
What do you call children

Let's argue maturedly BIko maka ndi ofe mmanu

Ifele na emezi m

Anyi Bu ofu

My inlaw, you r stil goin back to language, words nd meanings. That is not enough to call us a people of the same tribe. As much as we r all one, as human beings, we r not the same 'tribe'. Related tribe? Yes, same tribe? No. From d record of the famous expedition, its obvious, so obvious that the Abohs related with the Ijaws and even the Igalas more than d 'Igbos' in those times. Thr r people today in Aboh who know without doubt tht their origin is Igara. Today they hv been so assimilated into aboh tht they dnt even know anytin about Igala. Thr r Isokos wit same history in Aboh. Not to mention the Ndonis of River state, just across the niger from Aboh. I am telling u about people i knw, some related to me, some whose blood run in my vein. I am not tellin u based on assumption or a writer who wrote so much about a people he met in little more than 2days, i'm tellin u based on fact. Aboh is a heterogenous society and the only homogenous grp r those who descended from Esumai Ukwu, from whom the Obi is selected. Igbos r great people nd hv produced some of the soundest minds this country has seen, but Abohs r not rily Igbos. Our values r different. Abohs r related to the Igbos in some way as much as they r related to Isokos, Urhobos, Ijaws etc. But we r Abohs, thts our tribe

pazienza: [quote author=clef


Isn't it obvious that you have lost the argument,as you are now seen making childish comments, even to the extent of speaking not just for your self,but also for the whole ukwuani. Comments like the ones above., sound so infantile.

calling me childish is not goin to prick my skin. Fortunately for u, much unlike u, its not in my character to pass offensive comment on pple who don't share my view so dnt expect a retaliatory remark from me. I'l only continue to make logical argument to enlighten and push wht i believe without doubt. The only reason i used ukwuani is cos Mr Tony said his wife is Kwale. Pls try not to make offensive statements, it makes u look immature

pazienza: You have been possessed by agbontaen spirit, a spirit that refuses to bow to superior argument,but would rather keep arguing for arguing sake. You need deliverance.

Superior argument? Who made u d judge here. #laffin

pazienza: Ok, cos i noticed that one of Esumai companions from bini, goes by the name oputa, i don't know the meaning of Oputa, and i ve sinced wondered if it is really an igbo name. Now i am confident,that Oputa really is an Igbo name.

Oputa is an Aboh name. The Obi of Aboh before the incumbent was Obi Oputa.

Dictionary.com;
Tribe: A group of people united by common descent and sharing common custom.
Wikipedia.com;
Tribe: a social group existing before the development of, or outside of, states.
All i hv been seeing on this thread is language, language, language which is but a solitary point. Wht about d mode of dressing, the social festivals, the political organisatn, social interactions, marraige rites, religious practices, food. We speak similar languages, nd so wht?