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dejilg: Wow dude! I guess u needed to look again! U now assume that Mary z d one d verse is talking about! Pls while u r free to use ur marian church to interprete d verse, I am free to use the Bible itself! Is Jesus Eve's OFFSPRING or not

Secondly, if its obvious that the verse talks about Mary, why did ur church have to remove the "he" from the verses and insert "she" Pls quote the catholic translations for us. Do us the favour!
If its not playin on ur intelligence, why did ur church switch translations

Again, the text is talking about Eve's Offspring, just the same abt the snake's offspring too...or do u wanna tell us a particular snake abt the time of Jesus dat He bruised?

Let me even quote the verses for u. The Bible explains itself clearly, but u r misrepresenting it.
Gen 3:15-16

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel."

16 To the woman he said,
"I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you."

From the above, verse 16 tells us about the woman being addressed in vs 15....it was Eve, God cursed her as well, or is it only Mary that went through childbearing in pain?

So if it started from Eve, then why can't vs. 15 be addressing Eve, since the whole world (those alive and dead) all came forth from Adam n Eve. Then are we not Her offsprings??

Dude, dnt force ur doctrine on what the passage never said!!!

Now u talked about Jesus' command to John about Mary, again why ddnt Jesus called her "My mother"? Since Jesus wdnt hesistate to say He is David's Son, why ddnt He do d same about Mary

dejilg: Dude I never quoted wikipedia, u just scored a zero point! Dude are u so blind and naïve? Some ddnt consider Revelations to be scripture, doesn't mean u catholics gave it authority of scripture like u claim. The early church fathers quoted from it and hence sees it as scripture probably over time wen they reach a decision. Now u said wen paul said that the scriptures was written for all..., the NT wasn't in existence(any part of it)? Show us proof! Dude why reasoning like a fowl? Did the catholic church give us the OT? Isn't that purely Jewish scriptures of Judaism? What has dis gotta do with Catholics, if as u claim the NT wasn't written wen paul wrote? How does dis meant ur church gave us the scripture?
Wow actually u cud speak a lil bit of truth! The Church not catholic made it canon, infact u catholics ddnt make it canon quickly, u had to wait till d 4th council...so how come u can fight dat u gave us scripture (NT)?

Again we reject all ur man made "traditions and doctrines, and non Biblical revelations"....u can go ahead with them! But since its not in d Bible, I won't practice it. so I hope u acknowledge these facts as u hv stated that "its tradition" that makes our worlds separate. If any doctrine of urs is in Scriptures, we would accept, if not, we won't! Thank u.

And please argue intelligently!!!

The early church fathers did what they had to do, since its was necessary to authenticate books that were written in order to know its credibility. So the issue of Revelations is of such, examples like Hebrews, James etc too. Stop hastily catholicizin everythin!!!

dejilg: Thirdly, it cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the
New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and
were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo. In
the following we list some of the catalogues of the books of the Bible which are given by early Christian writers.
326. Athanasius, bishop at Alexandria, mentions all of the New Testament books.
315-386. Cyril, bishop at Jerusalem, gives a list of all New Testament books except Revelation.
270. Eusebius, bishop at Caesarea, called the Father of ecclesiastical history, gives an account of the
persecution of Emperor Diocletian whose edict required that all churches be destroyed and the Scriptures
burned. He lists all the books of the New Testament. He was commissioned by Constantine to have transcribed
fifty copies of the Bible for use of the churches of Constantinople.
185-254. Origen, born at Alexandria, names all the books of both the Old and New Testaments.
165-220. Clement, of Alexandria, names all the books of the New Testament except Philemon, James, 2 Peter
and 3 John. In addition we are told by Eusebius, who had the works of Clement, that he gave explanations and
quotations from all the canonical books.
160-240. Turtullian, contemporary of Origen and Clement, mentions all the New Testament books except 2
Peter, James and 2 John.
135-200. Irenaeus, quoted from all New Testament books except Philemon, Jude, James and 3 John.
100-147. Justin Martyr, mentions the Gospels as being four in number and quotes from them and some of the
epistles of Paul and Revelation.
Besides the above, the early church fathers have handed down in their writings quotations from all the New
Testament books so much so that it is said that the entire New Testament can be reproduced from their
writings alone.
Thus, the New Testament books were in existence in their present form at the close of the apostolic age. As a
matter of fact, the apostles themselves put their writings into circulation. "And when this letter has been read
among you, see that it be read in the church of the Laodiceans also; and that you yourselves read the letter from
Laodicea." (Col. 4:16). "I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren." (1 Thess. 5:27).
The holy Scriptures were written for all (1 Cor. 1:2; Eph. 1:1) and all will be judged by them in the last day (Rev.
20:12; John 12:48). Jesus said that His Word will abide forever (Matt. 24:35; 1 Pet. 1:23-25).

Peter being the first pope is another catholic myth! Peter ddnt head d church in rome...big hoax! Stop spreading it. Show us proof not word of mouth!

dejilg: No, u ddnt give anyone anything!

The early church fathers predated catholicism, quoted extensively from the NT so much dat we can construct the NT with exception of 11 verses which bear no doctrinal issues!
So if these early church fathers, whom are even model for us and ur so called church quoted from these NT books, how come u r d one who gave us the words!!!

Perhpas u shld scroll up to see my earlier posts regarding d issue of canon of NT.

POPE II: THE SAME WORDS WE GAVE YOU ?

dejilg: I dnt know where u kept ur glasses! Now show me where I typed or insinuated "Mary is not the Mother of God, becos Jesus ddnt say Mary is His Mother...! Show me! Simple show us where Jesus said Mary is His mother, dats all I asked for. U catholics are such bad liars, u cudnt show what I asked from the Bible, now u turn to commit fallacy and throw out red herrings! I only pointed to the fact that Jesus ddnt consider His relationship with Mary as important as that of David...what cnt u get here? Since u catholics say its because Mary z Jesus' Mother, dats why u "honour" her, I hv challenged u to show us from the Bible if Jesus made any reference to her that portrays her being able to pray for u. Like I said, Jesus made mention of David as His ancestor according to the flesh, while he made no mention of Mary at all. Simple challenge, prove otherwise! Stop misrepresenting me!.....I dnt wanna call u a liar! But u fit well for one

Again u claim that "my mother and my brothers are"....u claim this "mother" in d verse of Matthew refers to Mary! Dude are u dis desperate?

Let me post the surrounding context, since u really like context but here u failed to keep ur advice!

Matthew 12:46-50

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his
mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to
speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

This verses shows Jesus saying that "My Mother is anyone that does the will of My Father" and He even points to His Disciples in this regard and not Mary!......why are u desperate? Now u hv just shot ur catholic stage of Mary having no other children, since this verse says Jesus' mother and brothers are outside, while His Disciples are with Him. Again who are dis brothers? Perhaps u will talk about brotherhood in jewish thinkin! Mind u, this ppl calling out to Jesus for His mother are jews too! So given ur "brotherhood in jewish thinkin" holds! How are the Gospel writers supposed to relate this story if it were to be His very own siblings? Tell us how they would hv reported it.

Wow my eyes caught ur foolishness! So if Jesus wasn't related to Joseph in the flesh, so He can't be related to David? Wait are u a Chrisitan? Ok, let's put dat aside? What abt Jesus' genealogy through Mary, found in Luke 3:23-38? Or is dat one too a failed attempt?! Infact u dnt even know the mystery of why Jesus considers His relationship to David more important than Mary's.....jewish people in Jesus' time understood dat the Messiah is to be from the line of David, even more so through his Son Nathan, from which Mary is descended, but Nathan had no child and Solomon had to marry his wife and raise children for Nathan! hence the tree up to David, on Joseph's side, Jesus can be rightfully crowned King because Joseph is a direct descendant of Solomon and David!.....dude how much of ur ignorance do I need to cure??!

Even on this issue of Jesus' virgin birth, just check the thread, I hv explained why it was necessary for Jesus to hv such birth, and why Mary immaculate conception is a hoax and has nothing to do with Jesus' Divinity and coming to earth!....wake up from ur slumber

I kindly advice u to stop misrepresenting the Bible based on a man made doctrine of catholicism!

dejilg: Now I know u r a catholic and not a Christian and u dnt know ur Bible, I quoted Rev 22:16 to u and yet u pretend not to see it...

Luke 18

37 They told him, "Jesus of Nazareth is passing by." 38 And he cried out, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" 39 And those who were in front rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" 40 And Jesus stopped and commanded him to be brought to him. And when he came near, he asked him, 41 "What do you want me to do for you?" He said, "Lord, let me recover my sight."

Here did Jesus questioned being called Son of David?? And what gave the man d impression that Jesus is David's Son?

Seems u only read dat part of the Bible ur priests wants u to read. Did u read d Geneology of Christ?

If so, why ask, how Jesus is David's Son according to the flesh? To answer ur question abt Jesus asking d Jews how come David called Him Lord. Read Rev 22:16....Jesus is d "root" i.e Creator/Sustainer of David and also has descended through David's lineage! How come u dnt know dis?

Are u being dishonest with Biblical truth? Or u r doin what ur priests asked u to?

dejilg: Now I know u r a catholic and not a Christian and u dnt know ur Bible, I quoted Rev 22:16 to u and yet u pretend not to see it...

Luke 18

37 They told him, "Jesus of Nazareth is passing by." 38 And he cried out, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" 39 And those who were in front rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" 40 And Jesus stopped and commanded him to be brought to him. And when he came near, he asked him, 41 "What do you want me to do for you?" He said, "Lord, let me recover my sight."

Here did Jesus questioned being called Son of David?? And what gave the man d impression that Jesus is David's Son?

Seems u only read dat part of the Bible ur priests wants u to read. Did u read d Geneology of Christ?

If so, why ask, how Jesus is David's Son according to the flesh? To answer ur question abt Jesus asking d Jews how come David called Him Lord. Read Rev 22:16....Jesus is d "root" i.e Creator/Sustainer of David and also has descended through David's lineage! How come u dnt know dis?

Are u being dishonest with Biblical truth? Or u r doin what ur priests asked u to?

dejilg: Yh Yh tell us more abt ignoring all dat I hv typed on this thread...so far so good, none of u catholic liars hv been able to defend the man made Marian devotion

I dnt need popularity, perhaps ur church does, like it did before the reformation, by usurping absolute authority to overturn real Biblical doctrines for dea man made money thrivin doctrines!

dejilg: Why dnt u tell us what's in Matt 22:42-46 and hw it supports ur case?
Now how does dis refute the fact that Jesus is David's Son? Jesus is asking them that if David calls Him Lord how then is He his Son? How is dis fact twisting?
You as a catholic believe Jesus is God (I do too)...how den did Jesus call the Father God?

Does dis sound familiar? Answer it and let's see who is twisting Biblical facts...are u dis so confused?

Well let's look at Jesus' statement in Revelations 22:16

16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the OFFSPRING of David, the bright morning star."

Now don't u hv dis in ur Bible? Or did I twist dis in mine?

Infact this statement answers the question of why David calls Jesus His Lord n Jesus cud stil say He is David's Son. Jesus is David's Son according to the flesh!

Why is dis hard for u? Are u no longer a Christian?

dejilg: So u do have prayer to all saints? Why dnt u type out the one for David? And if the Gospel are the biographies of Jesus Christ, y den r u using it to try prove ur Marian doctrine? And wen I asked y u dnt do d same for David, u simply ignore, even when this biographies makes David as much more important as compared to Mary

Yes I knw Mary said dat, and its in dese "biographies"... so what has dat got to do with the issue of catholics honouring/worshipping Mary? Have protestants been calling her "cursed"?

dejilg: So u do have prayer to all saints? Why dnt u type out the one for David? And if the Gospel are the biographies of Jesus Christ, y den r u using it to try prove ur Marian doctrine? And wen I asked y u dnt do d same for David, u simply ignore, even when this biographies makes David as much more important as compared to Mary

Yes I knw Mary said dat, and its in dese "biographies"... so what has dat got to do with the issue of catholics honouring/worshipping Mary? Have protestants been calling her "cursed"?

dejilg: I have not type "David is greater than Mary" nor anythin of such. Importance doesn't mean greatness...I only said u shld read the Bible and show me where Jesus said Mary is His mother, but instead Jesus refers to the fact that He is David's Son... Hence David is more important as to Jesus' Ministry and Mission compared to Mary....even after Jesus' resurrection and revelation in Glory, He still made no mention of Mary but David...so am not d one who is doin conta-biblical facts. Its u and I hope u wake up from ur slumber. So u can stop following d man made doctrine of catholicism which sees itself higher than the authority of the Bible

dejilg: See desperation! Now quote to us all dose verse u been throwing out and show us Mary in it and how d verses say we shld "honour" her! Show it to us! Seems u can't read, u talked about women been ridiculed or such in d OT...u mentioned some examples and den u try to make Mary an exception, but I mentioned Deborah and den u start frettin! U have no cure but talk rubbish just to defend ur man made doctrines that only lead to hell! The devil has cunningly deceived u through catholicism...show us where it is commanded to honour Mary na!

U mentioned the coming of "Immanuel".....what did God talked abt the Virgin birth? "Its a sign"......God ddnt say anythin abt it but just a sign of prophecy! also I explained dat Mary isn't conceived immaculately, she had parent who are sinners just like she was. Mary is a product of sexual procreation, Jesus isn't. That's why Jesus' nature is quite different from Mary's. Mary's is sinful nature, Jesus is Pure n Divine. What lies do u catholics wanna come up with again?

Again u seem to have a partial blindness.....I asked u why u dnt honour David, since Jesus Himself considers David even much more important that Mary!

dejilg: Again u have told us abt what u want the so called people to feel and not actually what they feel and who dey are. I have showed u dat even according to Jesus, David had a more special place than Mary, Jesus made no reference to Mary after His resurrection and even did less during His lifetime on earthly ministry! Yet u come wit these ur false allusion of David, and Elijah optin to be Mary bla bla! Now how many of these other that have "gone before us" do u have a prayer to and statues for in every Catholic church just like that of Mary?

dejilg: Again u have told us abt what u want the so called people to feel and not actually what they feel and who dey are. I have showed u dat even according to Jesus, David had a more special place than Mary, Jesus made no reference to Mary after His resurrection and even did less during His lifetime on earthly ministry! Yet u come wit these ur false allusion of David, and Elijah optin to be Mary bla bla! Now how many of these other that have "gone before us" do u have a prayer to and statues for in every Catholic church just like that of Mary?

dejilg: Again u let ur assumptions play right? Show us proof in d Bible where it is stated that "Mary isn't Ordinary"........what of Elijah? Enoch? according to ur standards too, are they ordinary? Why haven't u been honouring dem? I hv pointed so many times on this thread dat Jesus ddnt even consider Mary as important as David, so hv u been honouring David too?

dejilg: Suddenly Jesus had become wicked and no more compassionate dat Mary had to be holdin his feet to get him to forgive sinners ryt?

Are u in ur sound mind?

What has the wedding at Cana got to do with this?

ddnt Jesus made it clear dat she wudnt have been needed if it was yet his time to be exposed

So now after fufilling the mission He delibrately took on Himself, He wud den waste it?

Do u catholics ever think?........is ur catholicism based on the Bible?

dejilg: If my Pastor is praying for me (if he did at all) den it isn't for me to make heaven, but a prayer for my living on earth, probably being sick! But at d hour of death? Only Faith in Christ can save! Not even a Mary can do anythin to save u, she herself needs Jesus saving her!

dejilg: Y is Mary praying for u? don't u have ur own mouth to pray? Or is Jesus not hearing ur voice anymore? And what's Mary prayin for u on?

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Babamide: Don't u know the difference between a catheter and a c0nd0m.
Mumu!

tintingz: am not in the mood to discuss this again(maybe later) we have lost a nairalander

tintingz: sorry bro your muslim friend was not enlightened about the holybooks I was once ignorant before maybe like him until I did my own research and study both the bible and Quran. If you want us to discuss about Jesus being God I can quote many verse from the Bible that he's not same as God nor called himself God.

Again show me from the bible where Jesus said "I'm the king of the universe" or "I'm God worship me"

tintingz: Please show me in the bible where Jesus said "I'm the king of the universe" or "I'm God worship me" and lets see who lack knowledge

tintingz: Please show me in the bible where Jesus said "I'm the king of the universe" or "I'm God worship me" and lets see who lack knowledge