₦airaland Forum

It's what i do for a living. I picked it because everything else i tried was taken.

Are there any bakers on this forum? Please how do you stop the fruits from sinking to the bottom of your fruitcake?

@TV01

The deacons were appointed to ensure that distributions from the common purse were equitably made. The bible does not suggest they were paid staff.

They didn't need to be paid then! Everyone in the church pooled their resources together and they all spent money out of a common purse. In the present day, that tradition no longer holds in the church but church workers still have to eat,

~ The only two offices in the bible are elder and deacon. , Could you please show me where in the Bible that a "pastor" (singular) is supposed to head/run a church. Pointing me to a pastor's mandate in the Bible would suffice.

You can liken the role of the Apostles in the Bible to the role of Pastors in present day, i don't see any contradictions here, so what is your point?

Could you please explain, what are these other responsibilities you refer to? And why do they require paid staff, Your "Pastor cannot do it all" comment.

Churches have administrative staff who answer phones, send out letters, schedule appointments, stuff like that. In the case of my church, we also run a christian school, a bookstore, orphanages, food bank etc. The Pastor of the church cannot single-handedly run all these establishments. That's the point i was making.

What I see is your reading the scripture to justify your church practice/tradition.

A beg, wetin concern agbero with overload? I don't have any reason to seek to justify my church's practices. I attend the church i do because i love the congregation and support the Pastor's vision. I didn't start the church, neither am i nominating it for "church of the year". It is of no consequence to me whether or not the workers are paid.

Salaried pastors, admin staff, workers, pr budgets, legal teams,
hired guest speakers, worker training, air time, political activism.

It's called church Lord, but not as we know it!

You should read Acts 6:1-7. In the beginning of the church, the Apostles concentrated solely on spiritual matters until the widows started to complain that they were being shortchanged when food was handed out daily (in those days, every member of the church sold their possessions and put the money in a common purse, so they all ate together). The Apostle's response to the issue? They handpicked seven deacons to take care of administrative duties while they concentrated on preaching the word. That is why churches need paid workers. Because in addition to preaching the gospel, the church has other responsibilities to fulfil and the Pastors cannot do it all.

This is why, if you walked into a church, wretched and poor and the pastor was preaching prosperity and he looked almost as tartared as you, would you believe in what he preached?

I would be equally disinclined to listen to the Pastor's message if he was well-fed and affluent while his congregation was poor and wretched.

The bible says give honour to whom it is due, don't you think that church acted their wisdom? What you call a lot of money is not too much to treat God or His servants very well.

Come on Papa, let's be sincere here. In a country where the average fresh graduate earns between 20,000 and 25,000 pounds per annum, you don't think a 120,000 pounds birthday party is excessive? Any way you cut it, it's not a responsible way to spend God's money. In the UK where churches are considered a charity and are monitored by the government, the charity commission determined that this was an inappropriate way to spend church money and ordered the money to be refunded. You see - even a wordly institution holds itself to a higher standard than a church does. Tell me Papa, if a governor of a state in Nigeria, withdrew 120,000 pounds from the state account to celebrate his birthday, would you say, "no amount is too much to treat our governor well?" So are we holding our worldly leaders to a higher standard of morality than our Pastors - Men who should demonstrate God to the world?


You see Papa, i am not a church critic. I myself am born-again and spirit-filled, by the grace of God. I love and support my pastor and my church in faithfully giving my tithe and offerings. But i am gravely concerned about the way we do church in Nigeria and the gospel that we are preaching to unbelievers.

The Bible says in 2 Cor 9:7-9 "And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. As the Scriptures say, "Godly people give generously to the poor. Their good deeds will never be forgotten." (New Living Translation).

When God blesses his children, it is so that we can be a blessing to others. When Hurricane Katrina struck in the US last year, while the government was displaying ineptitude, the churches had sprung into action. Most charity work in the US is done by the church. In Nigeria, it is not the case. Our communities are not feeling our impact. How then do we preach the gospel to them and expect them to listen?

Let us be truthful to ourselves and as the Bible says, let us judge ourselves so that we will not be judged by others.

Most times, we are able to fight these temptations but atimes, temptation could come at the lowest ebb of one's marriage. This could be when there are emotional issues which have been left to linger. It could be when one has been starved of sex. It is very easy for most people to succumb when they are at this period.

TAKE THIS OR LEAVE IT.

I'm sorry i cannot take it or leave it _{(and yes, i'm very emotional about this)} because some of us hold ourselves to higher standards of morality than you do. Just say, "this is the case for me", don't assume that everybody feels the same way. While temptation may be a fact of life, God is well able to give us grace to overcome it. THAT TOO, IS A FACT OF LIFE. Unfortunately, the devil has sold too many people on the lie that they are incapable of resisting sexual temptation, in essence therefore, reducing us to mere animals. Because herein lies the fundamental difference between human beings and animals sexually - a dog on heat will do anything to satisfy its desires with ANY dog that comes its way. A human being on the other hand is (or should be) able to control his/her desires and put them under subjection to his/her principles in life.

Now, i am not saying that some good people don't fall for temptation and commit sexual sin, but when they do, if they assume that it is only a normal fact of life, then they will shrug it off and inevitably do it again, thus starting a vicious circle. But if they acknowledge that it is wrong, repent, seek the forgiveness of God and their mate and take steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again, then they will be successful in resisting it next time.

@Consultant

If a man has $1000, is it ok to spend $100 on himself and the others for God and the needy? What is the percentage of that 120,000 pounds you quoted with the pastors income?

TYPOP,

I am not sure i fully understand your questions but i'll try and answer. If your first question is in reference to Rick Warren, then i believe an action like that is truly commendable. Remember what Jesus said about the widow who gave everything she had?

Secondly, the 120,000 GBP in question was not Pastor Mathew's salary. It was simply used to celebrate his birthday. You should read the article.

a wife makes her husband who he is, everything is all in your hand, if you are a good wife i see no reason why your husband would cheat on you,

No offense meant but Aloib, are you married? Because if you are, or have interacted closely with married people you will know that a man (or woman) really doesn't need an excuse to dishonor his (or her) marriage. Many men have lovely submissive wives at home and yet cannot resist the urge to step out on her - even men themselves will tell you that. Ultimately in this world, no one person is responsible for the actions of another. You are who you are because you choose to be.

From my experience, when a man says "all men cheat, they can't help it, so women should accept it" - like some have said on this forum, what that man is actually saying is "I have no self-control, i am incapable of being faithful to one woman and i feel better about myself if i assume that all men are like me".

For all you men who are like that, BREAKING NEWS!!! Not everyone is enslaved by sex, by the grace of God many men and women are well able to keep sex within marriage. And for the woman who wants to know if a man will cheat, there's your answer - ask him this question we are discussing and see what he says.

80% of successful marriages in Nigeria are with those marriages where the woman accepts her husband cheating. Its sad but its just a FACT .

And please sir, how do you define a successful marriage? One in which the couple co-habitate but have no respect for each other? Where they are teaching their male children (like you have learnt) that it is okay for men to be irresponsible and teaching their female children to accept it? Where the family is openly inviting the devil into their home by disrespecting the law of God against adultery? For your information, a marriage is not successful just because the husband and wife live in the same house. My step mother lived in the same house as my father till she died but as far as i am concerned, they were not married. You could count the number of words they said to each other in a day on one hand and still have fingers left. But I guess you would consider that to be a successful marriage!

Official list for ranking of universities.

Who's "official" list is this? Because i noticed that this is not NUC's website.

Private universities r for rich mens children who could not get acceptance to the more tough governements schools, so the best not even close

Could the "bad-bele" that i sense against private universities on this post be because most of us can't afford to attend these schools?
I have been to covenant university's website and i like what i see - plus they had all their courses accredited by the NUC last year - something that even the big federal universities did not achieve.

Did you know that yawning is infectious?

OAU must be the best

If you want to go to OAU, factor in an extra 2-3 years o. I have a friend who studied Medicine at OAU - entered in 1999/97 session and graduated in 2005, without failing or repeating a year.

My junior brother and sister both entered the University in the same year - in fact he entered six months before her and he went to OAU to do a 5-year course. She graduated, went to Law School and started NYSC before he graduated from OAU.

IMO in a few short years, the best university in Nigeria will be a private university.

@ Sir Kay,

Well said.

I put this post up under another topic but i think it's actually more appropriate here. See below:

My personal take on Pastors' living standards is this:

Some of them are talented in one way or the other - maybe they write books or run their own businesses - or it could also be that they receive gifts from people, in that case any money they make is theirs and they can spend it anyhow they like.
However, if all they depend on for sustenance is a salary from the church then their standard of living should not be substantially higher than that of their congregation. The case in which a [url=http://www.religionnewsblog.com/12409/Pastor-to-repay-GBP200-000-after-buying-Florida-timeshare-on-church-Visa-cardchurch spent 200,000 pounds to celebrate a pastor's birthday]church spent 120,000 pounds to celebrate a pastor's birthday[/url] was IMHO totally uncalled for.

A standard to emulate is Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Life". Even though he has made millions from his book and can afford to live in the lap of luxury, he prefers to use his money for the good of mankind. He practices reverse-tithing, in other words, he spends 10% of his income and gives 90% to the church and other charitable organizations. I pray we see more pastors like him. I have attached a time magazine article about him to this post.

My personal take on Pastors' living standards is this:

Some of them are talented in one way or the other - maybe they write books or run their own businesses - or it could also be that they receive gifts from people, in that case any money they make is theirs and they can spend it anyhow they like.
However, if all they depend on for sustenance is a salary from the church then their standard of living should not be substantially higher than that of their congregation. The case in which a [url=http://www.religionnewsblog.com/12409/Pastor-to-repay-GBP200-000-after-buying-Florida-timeshare-on-church-Visa-cardchurch spent 200,000 pounds to celebrate a pastor's birthday]church spent 120,000 pounds to celebrate a pastor's birthday[/url] was totally uncalled for.

A standard to emulate is Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Life". Even though he has made millions from his book and can afford to live in the lap of luxury, he prefers to use his money for the good of mankind. He practices reverse-tithing, in other words, he spends 10% of his income and gives 90% to the church and other charitable organizations. I pray we see more pastors like him. I have attached a time magazine article about him to this post.

Hello,

Is there anyone on the forum who attends the Fountain of Life Church? What is church like now, without Pastor Bim?

My dear, its hard to question people's motives for doing things, because as the bible says "the heart of man is deep". But remember when Paul was talking about some people preaching the gospel out of false motives? (Sorry, i can't remember the scripture reference) He said whatever their motives, he is happy that the gospel is getting preached anyway.

Because a labourer is worthy of his reward - and church workers also have to eat and feed their families. Note that the Levites were paid in their day.

Just came upon this thread. I saw a documentary on the history channel last year about the WWE. Like some have said, wrestling is fake-real. Real in the sense that they actually beat each other up but fake in the sense that the outcome is pre-determined. The winner of each match is decided in advance.

Layi, back when Hulk Hogan was a wrestler it was real.  He was a part of WWF.  He left before the re-invention of WWF and he left WAY before WWE.

Sorry to disappoint you but in Hulk Hogan's time it WAS fake too. In fact in this documentary, several wrestlers that were interviewed said that in real life Hulk Hogan isn't such a great fighter. However, he was a good entertainer who knew how to draw the crowds so they let him remain as WWF champion for a long time. In fact, the first time he won the title (by beating Andre the giant), Andre was sick and wanted to retire so Hulk was handpicked to "beat" him. During the fight, Hulk Hogan did something to annoy Andre and Andre started beating him up so much that they were afraid that Andre would not relinquish the title to him as planned. Eventually though, Andre let him win. In real life, they said none of the WWF wrestlers could beat Andre the giant.

The link below is a recent Sports Illustrated article about Bret "the Hitman" Hart (my favourite wrestler of all times). Makes interesting reading. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/arash_markazi/03/29/hot.read/index.html#

I'm not a Christian, but I find the one about finance in marriage interesting

Glad to hear that Seun. Feel free to try some of the others. They're really nice messages. And who knows maybe one day,

Haba! Churches pay pastors, administrators and all forms of workers. Why are you singling out musicians for criticism?

A Valuable Christian Resource

Hello All,

My church puts all our messages online. You can listen to them online or download the MP3 at no cost. My pastor is quite a good teacher and if you enjoy listening to messages, i bet you'll find a few that will belss you.

The link is http://www.victorywc.org/sermons.asp

My personal recommendations:
5 financial dangers in marriage (this week's message - that's not my pastor, it's a guest speaker).
Living the vision of Act 2 - the entire series but especially "three words that can change your life".
Supernatural side of God.
Understanding God's economy.

Be blessed.

This is a hilarious thread!!!!

To be honest, no one without kids is qualified to comment on this because it is one of those things that you always swear never to do until you have no choice.

I remember saying "not on your life" when i heard this myself but a while ago i was feeding my baby (two months old at the time) and the food went up her nose. The next thing i knew she was gasping for air and crying vigorously. My dears, i didn't even think twice about it, the next thing i knew i was sucking muck out from her nose.

When you have a suffering child, everything goes out of the window - dignity, self-consciousness, nausea - everything!

"NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE TO YOUR STEPCHILD, ONE DAY HE/SHE WILL LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT HIS/HER PARENT"

I think i can disprove that - i was never nasty in any way to my step mother, in fact we routinely took her side against my father and mother.

I had a wonderful stepmother. She was my father's first wife and my mum was the second (we all lived together). Inspite of the fact that she and my mum didn't have a very good relationship, she never treated us badly. In fact, she was so close to my elder sister that everyone called her "Mama Tokunbo" (Tokunbo's mother) even though my sister Tokunbo is my mother's child and not hers. She died a few years ago but i still remember her fondly. She was a great woman.

Do you really think Dora Akunyili stood up to the criminal elements? What if she had to compromise a little bit to save her life?

Seun, do you have any evidence of this?

Puh-lease just leave these pastors alone! Haba! Are they accountable to you or to God?

On the contrary, if you love someone and care about their well-being, and you see them doing something wrong, you shouldn't shrug your shoulders and say "it's none of my business", you should try to do something about it. At the very least you need to take it up seriously in prayer, rather than leave the man to continue sinning and go to hell.

I know i've mentioned this before on another thread but i will rehash here. This is what my husband and I practice (and what i believe is ideal). Both our incomes goes into a joint account. We both get a pre-agreed amount for personal expenses - it's not a lot, just for things you don't necessarily want your spouse to know about - like if you want to buy him/her a present, or for day-to-day expenses. This "pocket money" goes into our personal accounts. We also have joint savings and investment accounts. ALL spending decisions are made together. It doesn't feel onerous because we talk all the time and ask for each other's opinions on virtually everything.

For me that is the ideal. In this present day, i don't see how it is possible for the husband's relative to have access to a couple's joint account without the woman's permission except through fraud and if you both have a will, it should cover the other person in the event of one's demise. As for the issue of trust, i daresay if you don't trust each other enough to share an account, you have no business being married to each other. In Seun's words, that's characteristic of a dysfunctional family.

deleted.

Anyways,  when i go to church, I give to God, and that's it. Whereever the money goes is none of my business.

It is this kind of lackadaisical attitude towards the resources that God commits to us that allows some men of God to also behave irresponsibly with the resources of God. It is 100% your business what happens to the money you give in church. God blessed you with that money so that you can be a blessing to others (see 2nd Cor 9:8 ). Why should you now take this money to a church where the Pastor will spend the money irresponsibly? How will the gospel be preached to all if the man of God spends all the money on his own pleasures? We must hold our pastors accountable. If the pastor is spending church money on himself AND YOU KNOW THIS then you should stop going to that church. That way, the pastor himself will know that he has done something wrong.

In my church, every year the pastor develops a budget for where the church will focus money on for the year. At the end of the year, the church produces an annual report that shows how the money has been spent. Before major investments are made, pastor talks about them in church. When i give my tithe and offering on Sunday, i know exactly where it is going. That's why i attend that church.

No probs Imani, i understand you both in English and Yoruba