₦airaland Forum

jakeporeshenko:
Says who ??
Speaking in real terms if there were to be a conflict between Nigeria and Cameroon, those 2 forces will clash.

And the outcome would be?

nemesis2u:
somebody plz remind the concerned person that the topic in question was can a ship borne radar detect a submarine periscope in high seas

i said no and he said yes to my no

so the onus lies on him to prove it with facts based on laws of physics .

how hard is that , it is easier than writing whatever he wrote

god help the submariners and the ASW crew

that is why Russians Americans Chinese hell everybody goes around sniffing out the acoustic signature of the various prowling submarines wherever and whenever possible so that it can be added to the threat library of the onboard sonar system so that it can be matched with the ships/sub detected sonar echo readings for positive ID as to the type of submarine that has been detected .

i guess the above navies have nothing better to do

but what do i know

anyways i am out of this

everybody is free to believe whatever that rocks their boat.

This is a known. Nothing new here. These states u mentioned map underwater lanes to know submarine movements and not only for the acoustic signature purposes you mentioned. That's more for military intelligence on a day of survival or death.

Those states you mentioned are also at the forefront of sniffing technology because in a real threat scenario that's what counts. Why avoid that? You think attack submarines that are fast gives u chance to check ur library.

That library is for the brain of their sailors so at detection in a split second they are able to tell what exactly they are dealing with.

That's not literature. It's called Naval Science.

jln115:
@Covert1 @officialdayo @Odunayaw @patches689 @ActivateKruger

- @Covert1: please enlighten us how a nuclear sub can possibly be more stealthy than a D.E sub?

- @officialdayo: please enlighten us on how NAF is going to attack us with aircraft you don't have?

A Nuclear Submarine can stay submerged for months, yours cant! They are Conventional submarines which lack Air Independent Propulsion and must snort for a minimum of 2hrs within a 24hr period. During that process one of its pipes snorts to recharge it's batteries and the other pipe emits gas which releases heat. That is a huge disadvantage as you are prey for a searching Armada. This is as simple as can be understood.

jakeporeshenko:
Yeah Nigeria has an abundance of amphibious forces but not AFSF, that is why it wouldn’t be a fair match, rather match BIR against SBS, both are all rounders.

BIR is not comparable to the SBS.

Iblawi1:
Research topic spotted

Covert1 your response is needed if you have the time on the link below
https://www.nairaland.com/1962290/african-militaries-strictly-discussions-thread/17

Gentleman, I did make a response. Time is of the essence and really no time. The earlier one is lost but I put up something up now. I'd assume u've already done more research.

Iblwai1, I'm writing between straits but I had to reply as u're quite a gentleman. I wouldn't respond to ur friends pettiness. Pls do indulge me as I think u'd agree no one divulges the specifics of his capabilities. Even if I did I won't jeopardize the lives of our NN sailors and crew. His questions are merely regurgitations. Some of the topic is open knowledge, he should look them up.

I did say "some" Radar. Yes, anti-clutter radar exists. And it is possible to detect a submerged vessel's snorkel or periscope in an Area of Direct Military Interest (ADMI).

I'd assume u've made some study on this matter. You can also research on new advancements like Laser Radar which allows for light detection and ranging. Of course integration of assets from air to satellite to sea and even fellow submarines allow for better chances at detection. Some of these assets employ optical, radar or thermal means for detection.

But to explain my parable better a lot of focus is on the training and experience of the crew. Pls note naval warfare is a matter of life and death. Submarines have the advantage of knowing u're there before u may detect it so ship crews are highly trained for detection.

This training makes a lot of difference since detection is by both direct or indirect means. A lot of the focus here is indirect detection. Naval crews train to gain experience and ability to determine the difference between Sea entities and the sounds they generate. Mostly they are trained in specific areas of Radar detection that makes it possible sometimes for a naval officer to be able to tell what class of submerged vessel is been detected.

Yes atmospheric elements can be an interference but not necessarily a hindrance regardless of conditions as ships have endurance and can tarry for the kill. The Sea contains other marine life and the presence of a submerged boat adds to the dynamics that creates internal waves or alters the Sea balance and structure which generates chain reactions on the Sea Surface picked up by Radar etc for split evaluation and determination of what's possibly out there. It is a complex system but much is about the type of response or echo received to sound projected.

Beyond this are many other factors but that would be writing a paper. Technology would always evolve for detection as well for evasion. Already non-steel submarines are been designed as are Radars for visual or direct detection. We can always tete-a-tete going forward. Thank you.

lionel4power:
B.I.R would be the first responders (tactical) in case of any conflict with Nigeria.

Tip of the Spear

I'll love to see a B.I.R vs AFSF engagement (don't judge me)

Lol

NAF Discipline

kabe1:
This is impressive!

"They are also exporting to Germany?"........ That's so cool!

Hopefully we get to see them at the Air Show Oga Henry said would be holding in Ghana this October.

Exactly what I was thinking...

Did anyone see the new Aljazeera feature: My Nigeria. This Sandra Aguebor lady is a proof of the ingenuity of our people. Exactly the kind of people you need to win a war So proud!

tdayof:
Yes indigenous manufacturing but some part are being sourced from abroad due to the bad industry we have here. However those parts make less 35% of the product.

Our policy makers are slow really, a frustration many share. These guys are capable of more with the right investment and not just them but others too. Where is Onu? He says the right things but always seems to be missing in action.

tdayof:
There's this radio too, it carries an inbuilt repeater and can be configured to extend the range of uav.


It works this way, if the UAV needs to move from Lagos to Abuja and then it's range is limited to something around Kaduna. If we any of the three branches of the military has a unit stationed along Kaduna to Abuja and has the radio, it's can be used to increase the UAV communication range therefore allowing further blablabla.

We need patronage from within...these guys are impressive

tdayof:
Today, I talked about a Nigerian company with a manufacturing plant in Nigeria into Radio Solutions blablabla.

Had access to their brochure but I doubt I can upload here due to size.

They've got various types of radio communications devices, Jammers etc and most of their products have CE approval. The company currently has up to four patents with some pending approval.

They also have ToT with foreign companies with the company Nigerian specialist integrating their own special etc into the device.

They currently have sales in Germany with a Pakistani company being their current biggest cistomer.

I'll try and upload the remaining products details later.


*Encrypted DMR
*Trunking capability etc.


They are developing repeaters already to enhance and increase signals. It's making use of fiber optic blablabla.

They have various radios. There are plans to have their products being fielded among the Nigerian agencies soon.

Below is their first product. It has A DES capability and a new model with same design is being developed with AES integration.

Cc: kabe1

This is it, Indigenous Manufacturing

Off Topic: Nigeria's Military is reporting that it's Fighter Jets bombed Rann based on Satellte Intelligence that showed the amassing of potential BHT elements in the area, an area which wasn't previously indicated as a humanitarian base on it's operational maps. Henceforth, information on all temporary or permanent humanitarian centers should be made available for clear indication on the Map.

Iblawi1:
He's feeling like they have a nuclear submarine. Their sub can only stay submerged for 400nmi which is just enough to come out of their EEZ and back. Our Chinese OPVs have radars that can see the sub charging dead batteries around 250km away.

Maybe he needs more education on why you called it prey to surface ships.

Dear you are not out of order about Radars being able to detect subs on sea surface when it snorkels or uses a periscope and Technology has advanced today and some Radars have anti-clutter capability etc. FLIR too is used to detect it's heat on sea surface or track it when dark. NN ships operate sophisticated technology.

We don't sail the high seas to Australia, China and back trusting the goodwill of Nations alone knowing some will rejoice at any misfortune of ours. Submarines are great assets and great threats too so no one takes chances yet it remains prey, it's like searching for a dangerous snake.

There are a whole host of options in ASW warfare which is why I said "Integrated Armada". Apart from airborne crafts both rotary and winged using varied sensors like sonabouys or hydrophones to surface combatants with towed or hull mounted Sonar (passive or active) we have our extensive eyes in the sky satellites being one of them (with very high resolution) beyond what obtains anywhere else in the region. It allows us to map the waters of the continent and understand the character of the enemy. Training and experience helps calculate and determine where, when or how assets are moved including subs which is why I said "we know them before we sail".

What obtains now in SSA or questionably Africa as a whole as Subs is only suitable for littoral defence and indequate cos ships have endurance, the sub would snorkel, want to change depth or may send radio signal at some point to base and it's bingo.

Crude intelligence is also a factor. Warfare is not just buying guns, boats and planes. It is more intelligence. Experts know this and they concurred Nigeria's Navy could show up off Cape Town if provoked. Nobody is saying war but in gun boat diplomacy statements are made with presence just like they did.

Don't think otherwise only we don't give out specific details. Crude methods are still applied in today's trade craft. So Nairaland is not off limits. But I'll still speak in parables. Those that have ears let them hear. Finally I don't comprehend the motive of some who pick on knowledge to take potshots.

Anyway...

TrueHeart365:
even the Algerian whose military power is *10 of ours won't be this delusional.

Pls ask questions. It is the key to life. I know what my posts means.

"The southies don't eat their own they get someone else to do it for them."

jln115:
Do you even think before commenting?

Thinking is my business. U should too for which u'd have accepted Nigeria's business as it's business rather than take potshots which of course has led some to glorify ignorance on Nairaland.

ActivateKruger:
*Yawn

So you think a navy that has operated a fleet of submarines for 47 years would not know what to do with that? Ever heard of doctrines where you develop efficiencies with the equipment you use? So you think we don't know about the strengths and weaknesses of electric diesel submarines? Then develop doctrines around it? We don't have one of the best military academy in the world for jokes.


NB: The Cubans had installed radar in Angola that covered the whole country and half of Namibia... The SAAF still bombed, in fact we even flew Pumas while the feared SA-7 missiles took guard. Then we went on capturing a mobile missile system that the US and Israelis begged the SADF to have.... Then you talk about your 2 Chinese patrol boats.

*Yawning

You are exactly the symbol of SA overestimating itself and failing at every turn. Your patriotism blinds sense and reality and clearly youth exuberance is evident here.

Pls stop equating the SADF with the SANDF. Your Boer colonizer Army is better than what obtains today in SA and they still lost the war to Angola, those are the records and your shouting on Nairaland won't change it.

Which best military academy? You don't! Your present day SANDF is filled with ineptitude and is obvious. You don't even have NCOs to talk of a real Officer Corp which is why your military is poorly led. Your military leadership is based on Political patronage and not competence. This incompetence is clear in your military priorities. While you were busy buying shiny toys for grandstanding we were busy building infrastructure that would tear them to smithereens. That's what sound military strategy teaches you: to seize/have the initiative from/over your enemy. Go back to the basics first before utopian goals. Pls calm down. You are lucky Zimbabwe don't have territorial ambitions as they have better officer entry academy and Nigeria helped them do that and they have proven capable in combat.

SA has not won one modern combat engagement and you are here shouting from the roof tops. Your illogical combat tactics amuses me.

Your submarines are essentially mines in the Sea and we will hunt them down, that's what Navies do. There's a reason subs are built to be quiet as much as possible or better still nuclear powered to increase it's chances of survival and Nations go to great lengths to classify their positions. Still it is a prey for Surface Warships.

NNS Centenary and Unity have guidance systems and sensors to defend itself and offensive action. And Nigeria is not coming to your waters with two OPVs. It is coming with an integrated Armada larger than your entire military that would make you regret pointing the finger at us in the first place.

Iblawi1:
He's feeling like they have a nuclear submarine. Their sub can only stay submerged for 400nmi which is just enough to come out of their EEZ and back. Our Chinese OPVs have radars that can see the sub charging dead batteries around 250km away.

Maybe he needs more education on why you called it prey to surface ships.

Exactly so. Good job man. He surely needs it.

Iblawi1:
That guy doesn't know their sub can only stay submerged just for a short period.

Obviously clear he's uninformed. Looking like child's play and I'm not cut out for that.

ActivateKruger:
So you think we started operating Submarines recently, we have more than half a century headstart provided you just got submarines today which you obviously don't.

So shame me on how you could defeat our fleet, I'll show you how half our fleet could defeat your current and future ordered fleet. Go on, I'm all yours

First the SADF is not the SANDF, far from it. Secondly Submarines are prey (very important you understand that) and yours are not Nuclear powered an even greater disadvantage. And what is half your fleet? Your entire active fleet is smaller than the Nigerian Navy. Methinks first you don't know this or you downplay it's efficacy in Total War: Nigeria invests in infrastructure that makes sense and gives it advantage. You don't have that capability. Only Nigeria has it in the entire Africa. We know the position of your ships and potentially your subs even before we sail. You don't stand a chance.

ActivateKruger:
You're wasting time, we need some ships to sink already.

Like I said u're welcome. We all know you love to draw blood. Thing is just maybe you do sink a ship or two, it is the reality of war but we will still land on your shores. But there won't be war not gonna happen but Proxy war you bet some of us been itching to pull a curtain on SA' grandstanding and I mean in real combat. Bangui was just a teaser using kid rebels.

ActivateKruger:
Show of strength? Lol... Unless you come up with 4 stealth frigates, 3 Submarines then you're welcome... Till then we'll let you pass maybe Madagascar would be threatened.

Guess u love to entertain the guys, look for pics of ur fine 'stealth' frigates or submarines to post because if I start you'd be too ashamed to come here rattling about 4 Frigates and 3 submarines being able to stop a Naval invasion of SA. You think buying equipments is all it takes! We all know your lack of capacity in skill set to even muster credible deterrence. I think it was retired Admiral Adekeye who came to your country and offered your SANDF capacity building which was and is still obviously lacking but Abuja wasn't disposed. Madagascar will be an ally not to worry we don't bully small nations.

ActivateKruger:
That's good news I have heard all day. Our boys would do with target practice.

You are welcome Submarines are sneaky good assets but actually prey for Surface Combatants.

jln115:
Dude Nigeria would never sail in to our waters without permission.......and btw if you forgot it was you who said we must wait and see your Navy

Supplier my friend...Nigeria is not at war with SA and won't be hopefully -- that is if your foreign policy under the ANC and Jacob Zuma which is all over the place behaves though has been behaving since the Bangui debacle -- and as a responsible country obeys the laws of the sea and freedom of navigation in international waters. We have navigated the Cape of Good Hope twice recently. Again if Diplomacy and subtle military threat had not worked The Nigerian Navy would have shown up off Cape Town at the least in a show of Strength.

jln115:
Then don't come with "Wait until you see the Nigerian Navy off Cape Town"

We are not interested in doing that, no not at all if you don't make us to because once you almost did but cool & wise heads prevailed. Our economy and indeed Africa stands to gain more from a stable and prosperous SA exactly why u have no threat. Let's post pics.

jln115:
NATO was........and SAS manthatisi sunk every last one of NATOs ships.

Hope you're not seriously believing in reality that would be the case? At least save urself some troubles. But then again we don't care.

Henry240:
The whole thing is just completely ridiculous.

Which is why I gave the sarcastic retort to the Kruger guy with realism, yet a wannabe chose the part of pettiness.

ActivateKruger:
If there's a Nigerian Navy officer in the forum I simply wanna ask what kind of interest does the SSV serve in the navy considering the following:
- The NN currently has no defensive and offensive capacity/capabilities.
- The SSV only carries 3 helicopters and can hardly carry armour of any serious support to the 500 troops it carries.

I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm trying to find logic behind the acquisition. Thanks

While the NN Guys are coming in —

Logic: Power Projection. SSV Service: Reach.
Naval Science dictates that an expeditionary fleet sails with an escort of vessels with capabilities for anti-air, anti-surface and anti-submarine capabilities. It's like when you see the US Navy's 7th fleet sailing for invasion. Something like that is what Nigeria is replicating in Africa. A blue water expeditionary fleet.

NN Capacity & Capabilities: Wait until you see the Nigerian Navy off Cape Town

jln115:
There is no logic to what that guy says......all of a sudden Nigeria is buying frigates, subs LDPs.....

Now I'm not saying they can't.....but during a recession.....yeah I don't think so.

I'll wait for official confirmation from the NDF or from the suppliers website.

jin115 pls get over this ur idea of recession as a factor in our weapons purchase. Nigeria functions differently. We have always payed for our critical security needs from alternative sources. Always!

nemesis2u:
answer is BALL BEARINGS

Of all things common with ball bearings you chose a bicycle Ok then

Henry240:
Except if we are going to use the now refurbished Combattante class for that role, i really think we need additional missile boats. One more reason i like the KCR-60 is, it would allow for local builds. Again, a win-win situation for all of us.

My problem with Germany is, that country's equipment is easily prone to sanctions and political correctness.

Actually that's my desire too technology transfer with every purchase we make. I've advocated that on the first 3 examples of the JF-17, the long term plan being domestic production. This gives us strategic leverage having advanced Fighter Jet Technology. With the right negotiator I don't see China averse to the idea. Pakistan has leveraged it's close relationship with China for such enormous benefits. Same should apply to every other supplier. The win-win mentality as u suggested should be our guiding principle. Everybody borrows, shares for profit or steals technology to get to where they are. At the end innovation will get us to the promised land and we can.

Exactly our Combattante 111 missile crafts covers that role but I anticipate more Corvettes. I agree we need more missile crafts to cover the existing gaps.

Germany has always been our friend since independence. However for strategic reasons in today's world where there are no permanent friends I comprehend ur fears. But Germany are not exactly unreliable partners judging by history. However Nigeria buys with no strings attached cos our military acts in furtherance of our foreign policy objectives in Africa which means we can deploy for offensive action whatever assets we have, wherever we want and when we want. We wait and see.