₦airaland Forum

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dalaman:
When did I argue with you that evil is not a human invention?

hope uve seen it

dalaman:
According to YOU and YOUR stupidity atheist believe there is no such thing as evil.

Here

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Dfire:
okay have you ever seen two chickens killing each other

No but I've seen a male chicken chasing a female chicken and.... Try as much as you can to justify it it's called 'RAPE' so I guess rape must be a good thing

dalaman:
Still doesn't stop morality from being a human invention.

Who invented the system of morality our ancestors in Nigeria were abiding by 2000 years ago before the coming of the Europeans and the Arabs?

Trust nairaland atheist first you were arguing with me that evil is not a human invention now you've swapped here

The world would become the hell, people have discovered that they can kill anybody, rape any sexy girl and there's nothing chai those will be interesting times

see how atheist are displaying their usual confusion all this argument for an imagination.. Keep going keep going

The topic should have been ten reasons why atheism makes no sense
number 1: This thread was created

dalaman:
Many excluded tribes in the Amazon jungle that have been discovered have been shown not to have any form of organized religion at all.

Killing millions doesn't mean you have no morality, it just means that you disregard the moral codes concerning killing others. Hitler was a law abiding German citizen before he became the leader, those close to him said he always told the truth, he hardly tell lies, he hated gays and considered them as evil people, he was a law abiding citizen, he wasn't ever arrested for breaking any German law as a private citizen. He didn't go about raping, stealing, committing acts of fraud, committing murder, and breaking the law at will. He abided by the German laws and the military code of ethics as an officer.

He knew that stealing, rape and murder was wrong but disregarded them anyway. Doesn't mean that he doesn't believe or had no morality at all. Many pastors have been caught pants down with people's wives and children, despite their constant castigation of adultery and fornication. Doesn't mean that they don't have morals, it just means that they chose to disregard it.

Hitler was accused of raping his niece, many Nazis were gay soldiers Hitler hated only those ones who dressed like ladies

What's the difference between not having morals and disregarding it if you disregard it it's because you believe it's stupid

dalaman:
Give an example of a human society that you know that can live without any form or type of morality.

Show me a society that exist without any form of religion
I said some people not societies, people like Hitler Stalin killed millions not as if their body damaged or something

PastorAIO:
Ok, you know what? I'll try to approach it from another angle using different example and maybe it will sink in better.


First, you accused me of using the bible to justify my Claims. However at no point did I do so. I start of by saying:

"It is believed according to the bible..." That has nothing to do with my claim. Whether I agree or not the fact remains that 'It is believed according to the bible...' Okay?

So we have many pseudo christians who actually know next to nothing about their own religion and who hold beliefs that contradict their own authoritative religious book.

I am pointing out to You/Them that the belief that a Sense of Morality is congenital is supported by the bible so they/you have absolutely no leg to stand on if they/you think they are coming from a biblical point of view. Or you are defending your crazy religious cult. Your crazy religious cult is quite far from biblical despite it's claims.

It is obvious from the bible, as I said previously that 'The writers of the bible know that the sense of Morality is ingrained in all Humans.'

You have set yourself against this basic biblical precept. It's all over the bible. But you don't even need to read the bible to realise this. It is all around you all the time. Human beings make Moral decisions all the time. Only an idiot would claim that you need to join his stupid religious cult in order to become Moral. Check out this passage too, in case genesis is not enough for you :

14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, 15since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them.
Roman 2

It seems to be paining you that You see many morally commendable atheist in the world. Many of them more morally commendable that most christians. So you want to attack the basis of their morality.


An instinct is something that is built into a person from birth. Asking how something is instinctive is quite a stupid question? It is instinctive because it is part and parcel of human nature.



Oh? This is a new question. It is no longer where did our Sense of Morality come from? But still I will answer it. But bear with me, I want to touch on some other things first.

You seem to be confused about the Experience and it's relationship to Sense of Morality in this discussion.

Consider this:

I see a car. I'm experiencing seeing a car. I recognise the experience of seeing a car.

I see an apple. I'm experiencing seeing an apple. I recognise the experience.

I bite the apple. It tastes like an apple. I recognise the experience of tasting an apple.

I see a man stab another man to death. I recognise the experience of seeing murder.

And now consider this:

I see a car. I place a VALUE JUDGEMENT on the car. This is a very NICE car. Or, What an awful car, I wouldn't be seen dead in it.

I see an apple. I place a VALUE JUDGEMENT on the apple. This apple looks GOOD.

I bite the apple. I put a VALUE JUDGEMENT on the taste of the apple. Euurgh! This apple tastes AWFUL.

I see a man stab another man. I put a VALUE JUDGEMENT on the act. That was a DEPLORABLE act.

You see... Morality are value judgements that we make of events that we experience or consider. They are not the acts themselves, but the value which we place on the acts. There is a whole scale of grades we can use to do this ranging from Ideal/Good at the top down to Evil at the bottom.

We project these value judgements onto the events that we experience around us. The Value judgements are not inherent in the experience itself.


Now to move on to your new question....

Man is a social animal. Like monkeys, wolves, fish, etc. Most of our achievements have been due to our ability to pool various resources together. There is an obvious evolutionary advantage to collaborations and pooling together of various human resources. A plumber cannot build a house alone, neither can a bricklayer, nor an electrician. But with one common goal in mind electricians, bricklayers and plumbers can come together to build a proper house.

Tied in with the sense of morality is the obvious fact that we will want to be in the company of people who share the same Values. Someone who can't stand hip hop will find it hard to be in the company of people who go to hip hop parties regularly. Social groups have standards and if you don't meet up to those standards you will be ostracised.

Therefore as Societies are based on SHARED VALUES and the social instinct is an Evolutionary advantage, it would make sense from a darwinian perspective that a Sense of Morality would Evolve.



Oh, and btw, I am not an Atheist.

Now you said morality is a social instinct shared by everyone
Then why do different people have different moral views? Is it evolving in only some places
In Greece homosexuality was encouraged in the society
In Calabar killing twins was Normal
If morality has nothing to do with religion why are different people bearing different morality views are some societies devolving?
Not all societies share the same moral view it's supposed to be a natural instinct which everyone are born with

Second according to evolution everything has a purpose fish learnt how to walk because of the need for hunting, we developed teeth because of the need for chewing. so, what is the need for morality? What's it's purpose? Some people can clearly live without it.

ichuka:
Nice work bro
Will try and contribute later

Just discovered that good news Bible version is completely different that's a KJV Bible

PastorAIO:
Have you been smoking crack so early this morning?

Read what I wrote again.

What you wrote is called trade language you just blow unnecessary grammar for something so simple, simple question what is the purpose for morality your saying it's instinctive how? In what way? Atheist and confusion are like 6 and 6

PastorAIO:
May I divulge some biblical knowledge to you.

It is believed according to the bible that the sense of Morality (knowledge of Good and Evil) is ingrained in Man due to the fact that Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil.

The writers of the bible know that the sense of Morality is ingrained in all Humans. You don't have to join any religious doctrine to have a moral code. You don't need to believe in God either. It's congenital from the time of Adam to this very day.

The bible goes Further. It's says that acquiring a Sense of Morality will turn you in to a God.

There is a instinctive responsibility ingrained along with the Moral sense. Every human being tries to maximise what he believes is Good and tries to minimize what he believes is Bad.
We strive in every second of our lives to make things Better rather than worse. The only time you can see someone willingly making things worse is when their perspective is different from yours. To you they are making things worse but for them they are striving to make things better.

The instinct to Strive to reshape the world according to our Moral inclination makes us partakers of the creation process. It makes us Gods.

Don't use a 3000 year old book written by conmen to justify your claims that's a theist response you just gave this is precisely what I'm talking about try a logical argument for morality without using a religious book

KingEbukasBlog:
There are non-theistic religions and atheistic religions. Eg La Veyan Satanism and Raelism are atheistic religions

Buddhism , Confuscianism, Unitarian Universalism are examples of non-theistic religions

You have always been stressing this point, Satanism and atheism are closely related but the difference is Satanist know it's a sin and they love doing it, but Atheist deny sin and also Satan I never said Buddhism was an atheist religion

vaxx:
that is what in evolution, evolution does not consider the first theory useless, it only abrogate it.....

Your point being that Christianity is the only Religion evolving for our survival and I thought this was about atheist what does Religion have to do with evolution
What are you exactly?

PastorAIO:
I think You are mistaken what I'm saying. Having a sense of Morality is what we are born with. Where we position different events on this ladder of morality can be learned. But the fact remains that we are born with preferable actions and events and less preferable ones.

The same with Language. Steven Pinker demonstrated that we are born with an instinct for Language yet it is where we are born and raised that will determine which actual language we'll speak.

Was he quoting you? And what kind of ironic name is pastor

Besides can you explain the reason for the instinct of morality

vaxx:
thank you sir.....i will only give you one example out of numerous example. in the old testament... the bases of morality falls on 10 commandment but in the new testament it was change and Jesus declare that love superseded law . even in the bible morality experience evolution

Jesus said love superseded he didn't say throw away the ten commandments they asked which one is the greatest

vaxx:
i am not an atheist....do you read my post......morality passes through evolutionary stages'' there use to be time when what you consider evil today were dully right....

Morality is religion different religions different morality. E.g in Calabar traditionalist killing twins Good not killing twins bad When Christianity dominated the people killing twins bad not killing twins good there's no stages involved it's simply a change of dominant religion

vaxx:
you have given me about four mentions.....but i will only reply to this since i assume is the most relevant....

DO not confuse hormones or genetic transfer to knowledge.....knowledge is what we learn over time base on experience and practice.... so tell me how a toddler is knowledgeable? the idea to rationalize wrong and right is given by the society and not from the womb....

An extrovert parent may possibly give birth to extrovert child and vice versa . this is a biological factor and has nothing to do with knowledge. unless you are suggesting that a doctor can give birth to already made doctor? the only skills all baby can do is to cry, grasp and suck... every other thing is learn....depending on the genes transfer to the baby by his parent will determine how fast or quick the baby will assimilate .therefore personality function and cognitive are already decided by our generic heritage and biological factor.

''The brain itself has blank-slate-like properties (5). This phenomenon was studied most extensively for cortical cells that initially do not know what they are supposed to do but develop a rapport with neighboring cells, responding most strongly to those that stimulate them the most. This means that if a person were to lose a finger, the parts of the cortex that had represented that finger will likely start responding to input from another finger'' by David eagle an authority on biological science

i will advice to read on from here.....

5 Kalisman, N., Silberberg, G., and Markram, H. (2005). The neocortical microcircuit as a tabula rasa. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 102, 880-885.

morality itself pass through evolutionary stage, the spread of human race all over the continent also shape what we term morality today, how those it begin ?..... survival was the major factor ... the strive for little resources (crop) birth writing system so that we can keep track of them , keeping our selfish desire in control birth army ,lastly the administration of the crops birth politics... this how society was form so that humanity can survive....

Wow impressive morality was created for survival of humanity,
Then I guess things like men raping women is surely a good thing since it helps produce more babies and continue human survival.
I love atheism

dalaman:
According to YOU and YOUR stupidity atheist believe there is no such thing as evil.

Evil was created by conmen to make people behave in order of the leaders they called it 'religion' or are you not atheist again

dalaman:
Why won't he get pissed when someone wishes him bad? I don't have to believe in your silly mythical and fictional beliefs but I will feel bad when you wish me evil

. Wrong!! wrong!! wrong!! According to Atheist there's no such thing as evil

LalasticSeun:
all your big head could wake up and think of is why a dead man resting in peace in hell was given a state burial

What kind of sarcasm is that?

Martinez19:
Morality is biologically ingrained in us. Nobody told us that killing is bad, we knew it. If you don't know that killing is bad and you need to be told, then you are an idiot.

but why is it bad? Did your DNA tell you that?

Ugosample:
No mind that mumu

Threads like these are just nauseating

The question has nothing to do with igbos you guys always think your at the centre of the universe this is a question every patriotic Nigerian should ask

donpap:
he was a LT Col

how many lieutenant colonels are in this country? How many of them have received that kind of burial?

DonMcek:
Bc he respected d Aburi Accord's agreement

No one knows the aburi accord there's no audio or video record everyone are providing different versions

If ojukwu was a patriotic Nigerian why are igbos agitating for Biafra? If he wasn't back to the question