₦airaland Forum

Onlytruth:
But we know that all it takes for us to return to another 40 years of lies is another northern presidency which can happen soon.

You are correct. I don't trust the North with power for this reason  Unfortunately, there is a decent chance they'll get it again this year.

Believe me, I am not bothered by whatever negative impacts it could have on my ethnic group. I still don't understand your logic about danger to my ethnic group if it turns out that we are the single largest ethnic group in Nigeria. In fact I see it in opposite!

Fair enough, whatever you think is the best approach for your people. Personally, my hope is that Yorubaland weans itself off of federal allocations anyway, as Lagos has done (70% of its revenue is internally generated.) Once your land is self-sufficient, then things like national censuses don't really matter as much. At least, this is the way I think about it.

I say that because I have seen a lot of my people trying their best to get the north to support their presidential bid before they can reasonably contest. I believe that they are underestimating their own population and hence potential political power in Nigeria.

The #s don't translate to political power unless they are official, though.

That is some badass equipment! 

Googled and found this article describing how the money for the APCs was raised: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5530927-146/story.csp

The rest of that blog looks pretty good too.

Beaf:
If the prosecution goes ahead, then I wouldn't be quick to laugh. Cheney's arse might just be had. 9ja be like wikileaks o!

excanny:
I somehow believe that the true figures of Nigeria's ethnic composition really exist somewhere, probably in some kind of safe in the presidential villa, with the President and quite a few group groups of state security operatives treating it as highly classified information.

It is probably on a computer system somewhere owned by the census bureau or the statistics bureau. I think you could probably get a good estimate by combining JAMB exam data and pieces of information like food/electricity/petrol/etc consumption per state, # of schools, # of banks, postal service data, automotive data, etc. Some variant of regression analysis might get you a very good estimate, assuming you can get enough data.

Probably some demography expert could come up with a high-quality estimate if you provide him with this data.

@asha 80: Yoruba are not all zombie clones, lol. Even me and my father disagree on almost everything related to politics. He is pro OBJ and pro PDP, I am against both. But I think most of us recognize when that internal disagreement should be kept in house, and not made public.

Onlytruth:
I am a bit disappointed that you would throw national planning (hence development) under the bus just because of sectional considerations, especially one that has held Nigeria's development down for more than 40 years.

As I said earlier, they probably have the correct #s in their possession. They just don't release them. If they have the data in their hands, then the false publicly released figures will not negatively affect national planning.

So, because a section of the country could lose their ill-gotten political power, we must now forget about Nigeria?

Lol, I'm not pro North, dude. What common interest do Yoruba and the North have? Zilch. If anything, I'm anti-North. But again, think about it. If you release correct population figures, then doesn't that also suggest rewriting federal allocations too? Do you think they'll be willing to give up billions of dollars without a fight? Especially as they have nothing really else to fall back on? No education, no infrastructure, no foreign investments, a land being slowly consumed by the Sahara desert?
People are at their most dangerous when they are backed into corners with no way out. I think a better approach is to slowly take away the North's power over the course of time, as is basically happening now. There is nothing wrong with achieving your objectives slowly and steadily.

BTW, like I said earlier, it is not most dangerous for my ethnic group, it is most dangerous for yours. Yours will be the one that swaps places with them in the nation's demographics, not mine. Yours is the one that has a lot of their wealth and assets in the north. Mine does not. In any case, I'm not opposed to correct figures being released. I just don't see how it benefits my group in any way, so don't see why we should extend a finger in fighting for this particular change.

Bro, I didn't read through all of this thread. But that girl is not attractive, and moreover probably has a p.enis. Run away from this situation ASAP. I'm just keeping it real. Stick with your girlfriend. Makes no sense to risk your relationship with her for a chick with a d.i.ck.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/universe/features/astrobiology_toxic_chemical.html

Pretty cool.

Really good thread!

Why the long wait? The US would have been a lot better off if these charges had been made say in 2002 or 2003.

Oh well, better late than never.

I would imagine that they have correct figures in their possession. Just that once they gather the correct data, they then cook the numbers before publicly releasing them. So as far as internal planning goes, it isn't an issue.

If you don't think there is any danger in a group going from #1 in population to #3 when almost all of their power in the country is based on this #1 status, so be it. All I know is that my own group is listed at #2 now, and is likely #2 in reality, population-wise, so any change is not likely to affect us.

I don't have "fear." Notice I'm not saying I would be sad or happy if anyone ganged upon your group. But just pointing out realities.

Finally, you should learn the difference between a majority and a plurality. The former is more or less invincible, the latter much less so.

^-- I don't think you are a friend of Jonathan, then. The allocations that go to the North, almost all of their power is built upon falsified census figures. If Jonathan tries to single-handedly fix this, he will probably be killed.

Simply put, you cannot expect to take power away from another group of people without expecting them to fight back. This is like backing a dog into a corner. Extremely dangerous thing to do, and a strategic mistake, imo.

In any case, are you so sure you want the true figures to be known? You realize that all hearts and minds in Nigeria will then unite against your group, right? And you might say, "Well Nigeria is already against us." But these things are relative. The easiest way to unite the other groups in Nigeria that don't necessarily like each other (Yoruba, Hausa, Middle Belt, South South) is to give them an external threat. It isn't clear to me that the benefits outweigh the costs, for your side.

You should study other countries like Lebanon where the official demography is clearly false, but maintained so that bloodshed and chaos are avoided.

Another item mentioning naija, but primarily about France:

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/10/09PARIS1426.html

TRAFFICKING IN PERSONS
----------------------
¶9. (SBU) The constitution and law prohibit trafficking in
persons for all purposes. However, trafficking in women and
children for commercial sexual exploitation, forced labor,
and petty crime is a problem. Prostitution is legal.
However, the law prohibits procuring, aiding, assisting,
maintaining, publicly soliciting, or profiting from the
prostitution of another individual. Enforcement of these
laws varied, and criminal activity related to prostitution
remained a problem. The country was a destination for
victims, primarily trafficked from Africa (notably Cameroon
and Nigeria), Central and Eastern Europe (notably Bulgaria
and Romania), the former Soviet Union, and increasingly Asia
(notably China), for prostitution and domestic servitude.

f_roms:
Believe me, I've got lots of friends (me included) who haven't been to Nigeria in a while and who don't even know these things are happening. I hope no one finds this offensive but I used to see lagos as a slum, till I watched all the videos of fashola's projects on youtube and I saw this forum.

I've known it isn't a slum, but it was sort of a shoddy city in the past. It looks like Fashola is instead building a world-class city. I'm especially impressed by his success in finding international partners to finance these projects. For example, the 30 year Lekki toll road.

Being able to attract billions in foreign investment to Lagos is no small thing.

Damn. That is messed up.

RIP Zoning
1999-2010

^--- You should know better than to criticize a woman's butt. Only leads to disaster 

How on earth is Yoruba likely to be more numerous than Igbo? Their home region is 95%+ Igbo, and they are also a significant number in all other states in Nigeria.

What then would you estimate, if you had to place percentages? Or if you had to guess the true population of states?

Are even Fulani sef really that numerous? There are two types, city Fulani who speak Hausa and the nomads. I don't think either group is very large, is it? And the Hausa-speaking Fulani are basically Hausa, at this point, no?

I'm not as traveled in Nigeria as you though (or traveled at all, period), but I'm surprised by your estimate.

EDIT: I don't mean nomads. You know the ones who have those little villages in the bush? Those types. They are the same ones who herd, right? And there are the city ones.

@Abagworo: I didn't understand completely understand the last statement you made. But if I had to guess by population:

Igbo
Yoruba
Hausa
Ijaw

(And it isn't sentiment that makes me think the Yoruba are more numerous than Hausa, I just think that part of the country is far less populated than officially claimed)

Then various other groups in different number.

Not sure what the percentages would be, though.

^-- The british journalist too was on the Nigerian side? Is this true of any event? All observers, even 3rd parties must be biased in favor of one party or another? Even if they extensively document and research their positions with quotes, first-hand reports, analysis of audio tapes, etc?

Surely you see that such a worldview is pure paranoia. Insanity, even.

You seem to have misread. By "neutrality", I meant a source neither Nigerian or Biafran. There were many eyes which saw the war who did not belong to either group, and thus might be considered neutral. Including the author of the book I mentioned.

^--- Looks like he is being blocked from posting again

This zoning principle makes no sense. How is GEJs campaign even consistent with zoning? Is it not still the North's turn, if we believe in zoning? How did Yar'Adua become president if it wasn't?

Some of these positions seems contradictory. . .

Even if Arab culture was more developed than African culture, what does that have to do with the Fulani? Which math or science did the Fulani learn from the Arabs, or teach to Europeans?

Usman Dan Fodio was successful in implementing his jihad and building an empire for himself and his descendants. But that doesn't particularly suggest that Fulani culture was advanced.

Also, it is only in Nigeria that the two groups have become one. Elsewhere in Africa, they are distinct.

He is too wealthy for a preacher. For me, it is that simple 

Jesus Christ wasn't bling-blinging in the Bible.

^-- It is not clear to me that this is true. I've noticed throughout history and in different parts of the world (Brazil, Cuba, parts of Sierra Leone, Benin, Togo, etc) that when people interact with Yoruba, they tend to get Yorubaized rather than vice versa. Do those Fulani feudal lords in Kwara even view themselves as Fulani still? I remember reading an article in which they interviewed some female relative of their Emir, and it made me wonder.

Perhaps Jarus (or someone else from Kwara) can shed some more insight into the matter.

^-- I've never been to the core North before. Is jatropha grown there? Or any other sort of crop that helps fight the desert?

Here is an article I read a couple years ago describing it:
http://allafrica.com/stories/200804211643.html

Looks like it is called "Bindazugu" in Hausa.

Pretty interesting discussion, guys. I followed less than 10% of this latter discussion. But it has provided useful pointers to learn more.

excanny:
He doesn't feel Yoruba. Must people force it on him? He might have checked his history and found out he's of fulani descent.

It isn't by force that one must be Yoruba. But at the same time, there is no reason for a Fulani from Mali to be ruling Kwara

He claims Yoruba when convenient, disassociates when inconvenient. I'm fine with either choice, but want some measure of consistency.

Let him pick very well which identity he wants.