₦airaland Forum

McSterling:
So, do you believe in god or not? You either believe in god or not, even if you're agnostic as davien has rightly pointed out.
Agnostic theist: I don't know but I still believe.
Agnostic atheist: I don't know, so I don't believe.

You misrepresented agnostic atheism there.....lack of knowledge isn't what necessarily permits disbelief but a non-substantiated burden of proof...
It's like you meet someone who believes in Chtulhu and you don't know what Chtulhu is....but instead of providing tentative explanations,you are given contradictory accounts from different time periods and different authors till you really can't say if its true or not...Then you tell the person that if there's nothing that can be substantially known about it,then you aren't convinced of it's existence...
That's agnostic atheism in a nutshell...

This is what I got from you..

#1 when asked for positive evidence, ask for negative evidence e.g can you give me proof of Bigfoot being non-existent?

#2 hide your religion,never let them know you're a theist..

#3 when atheists list out why "god/gods" are implausible,they are not giving proofs only reasons e.g when davien says a five sided square is impossible(because by definition a square has four sides),he is only voicing an opinion...not giving proofs,you can still believe a square has five sides...

#4 ignore an atheist asking why evil prevails in sight of your mythology,rather shift the conversation to the nigerian government and why the constitution isn't perfect..

#5 when an atheist is holding you on the ropes of religion,throw the conversation to evolution and ask an unrelated question that neither you or he knows...

Agnosticism has(for some weird reason) been marketed as a middle ground when it's not,you can either be an agnostic theist/atheist or gnostic theist/atheist...
I fall under the agnostic atheist section...

Joshthefirst:
yes. But you brand your anti-religious anti-God and basically anti-Christian dogma and nihilistic worldview as science or science based. That, my good man, is very wrong, deceiving and manipulative. Most people now think that science favours atheism and it's minions. A lie of course. They forget that the very masters of old who laid the foundation for the scientific method were godly men. They forget that there are scientists even now, who are godly men.

Whoa someone subscribed to too much "answersingenesis"
Science is entirely objective,religion isn't....it doesn't matter if science were nurtured by Arabs,jews,christians etc...
And it says nothing about unfalsifiable beings like unicorns,fairies etc
Although its findings goes against various mythologies...for example hindu mythology states the earth is on the back of a giant turtle....we've falsified this completely by circumnavigation and apparent images of the earth from space...
Just the same way it goes against 6,000 year old creation myths..

These anti-Godists carry their evil agenda and seek to deceive people l like you by pretending that their views are supported by science. A lie. A foolish and blatant lie. The truth is that these people don't have any answers. They only seek to remove God from the mix by declaring that science is against him, or declaring that science implies a creator does not exist.

I really don't know what to say about this....to sum it up in two words.. fractal wrongness

Joshthefirst:
no. This is what secular evolutionist fundamentalism drives you towards. The redefinition of science to your benefit. hijacking of the word science to fit your own set of ideals and foolish boundaries. You are the one who rejects scientific data and findings that disturb you or point to a creator

now you're sounding like ken ham.....
Science is by definition methodological naturalism....

LordReed:
Not quite. The premise is that the universe is the "same" anywhere an observer is in the universe. This means that any sufficiently large sample of the universe will have the same properties as any other. I bet you can already see the limitation in that. One obvious one is that of size. The size of the universe is such that if it is curved our section of it so small that it seems flat. Which means we could actually only be experiencing phenomena that is local to our area of the universe. Again none of this is 100% certain until further tests (currently beyond our capacity) are done.

Actually the cosmic microwave background radiation is the same everywhere and so measuring it would give the apparent curvature of the universe...
The only way for the universe not to be flat is if the radiation matches an "open" or "closed" universe...

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v404/n6781/abs/404955a0.html

" These anisotropies contain information
about basic cosmological parameters, particularly the total
energy density and curvature of the Universe. Here we
report the first images of resolved structure in the
microwave background anisotropies over a significant part
of the sky.
This is
consistent with that expected for cold dark matter models
in a flat (euclidean) Universe, as favoured by standard
inflationary models."

presher:
Depression and anxiety-believing in God can stop us from worries

This is true,although medically termed a placebo effect..

Acceptance-people will regard u as infidel if u do not believe in God

So?....should you also jump on a moving train because if you didn't you'd be called scared?

Politics-going to church or mosque can win u disciples

Really?! politics?....you mean mindless followers who'll do your bidding as long as they think "god" is by your side?....Nigeria has too many of those already...
This is why we have bad leaders,when people believe as long as he is a "christian" he's good to go.

Joshthefirst:
this article is also based on the assumptions of evolution and that an arrangement of particles of matter dubs life. It is based on the assumption that life is primitive and can be achieved by a mere assortment of random processes. It is based on the assumption that eons of time have passed for life itself to "evolve". This author of this thread also assumes that intelligence is a function of order, whereas it is ordinary self-proclaimed usual logical reasoning that order is a function of intelligence.

Joshthefirst its been a while...have you had the chance to go to a desert and observe sand dunes?...They look very orderly and yet no intelligence stacked them up(unless you term "wind" an intelligence) and then look at diamonds....they appear pretty orderly at first glance...but pick up a microscope to observe them it looks chaotic(infact this method is used to verify the authenticity of rubies and diamonds,a genuine diamond is internally chaotic)...
And does it matter who wrote the article?...would he be automatically wrong on everything he says,simply because he's(to you) "an evolutionist"

Above all, this article, and all its idiot.ic assumptions is geared against God, the creator. The people behind this have always had one agenda, and that is to remove God from the mix and thereby eradicate relationship with him. It is clearly stated therein:

You're absolutely free to believe there's a magical "bob the builder" or genie,I'll totally support that.
But when you try to stop scientific progress or shove it into the public,simply because you're too insecure towards your beliefs,then we have a problem...

These guys and the foolish others who follow them blindly make stupiid assumptions of their own, and go about pushing with all their might making "theories" and seeking evidence to purport their own worldview of godlessness and futility. Persecuting others who hold on to other views(like labelling them as cults) and receiving the masses by labelling their views as "Science"(quite horrible).

Yes. Those who subscribe to this nonsense are of suppurative minds while those who do not are mindless religious minions. I laugh.

Is this what creationism drives you towards, rejection of science simply because it's secular?

Joshthefirst:
Space expands into itself? Nawa o

Analogous of the way a piece of glass expands....only the expanding material in this case is infinite...

LordReed:
Your explanation is just full of confusion. The prime question is has the entire universe been observed or only just a portion of it?

The fact that the entire universe has not been observed is a non-sequitor..
What you're asking is similar to those in the middle ages having said that "since we couldn't see the entire earth,therefore the earth is flat"
The conclusions at the time that suggested the earth is spherical where based on mathematical principles,observations of other celestial bodies,the shadow of the earth when it eclipsed the moon,etc...and that is similar to what we've done to now the universe has no edged surface whatsoever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tciBru32oDU

LordReed:
You are really steeped in this your prejudice o. Cohorts? LoL.

An outside is not illogical, it is unknown or at best not within the ambits of observed phenomenon. Scientists postulate that the universe probably has no outside because of what they have observed but they have only observed light that has so far been visible. If truly the you universe is 15billion years old then the light from the farthest reaches of space will not be reaching us anytime soon so they cannot be certain about how exactly the universe looks like. You cannot be certain about the nature of the universe so to say the universe is this or that without any caveats is the weakness I saw in your op.

Again this is why one doesn't speak before comprehending something..

Why I said its illogical and not feasible is because if the universe had an "outside",as you erroneously think...then the universe would be either an open or closed universe...of which are variably different than the universe we live in..

If the universe were closed(or if we live in a closed universe) we'd actually be able to see so far that we'd see the back of our heads..

If the universe were an open one, we'd find that a triangle sums up to more we know it to...

And furthermore,the measurement of the cosmic microwave background matches the data that we live in a flat universe that has no edge, no defining start or end and no outside...

And the only thing regarded to as an "outside" of the observable universe is the hubble sphere,which is also an expanding diameter of space having no "edge" whatsoever....

Note: Saying it has an edge is implying that it isn't a 3d-sphere but a 2-d circle of which for the reasons mentioned above is not the case

LordReed:
If telling you I have no wish to argue the existence of God with you still leaves you arguing that same thing then you are really blind.

You and your cohorts don't seem to get it do you?
The claim of a "god" is tied to another claim that space and time has an "outside"..so I addressed why an outside is illogical and not feasible and then went on to say that nothing can be said to inhabit a non-existent place...
It would be like asking what lives on the beginning of a sphere.

Note: A sphere has no beginning or end..

Hiswordxray:
This is smart, I like it.

Thanks...

adexsimply:
How can something "exist" yet "not exist" in space-time ?
Let's assume the "Holy Bible" did not survive time, then the question to ask is; what makes anyone say god is outside of space and time? What is the evidence for such assertions?

Apart from breaking physics in two it also violates logic(law of non-contradiction)

LordReed:
You claim to address how an outside isn't feasible but a discussion on how this is limited by observation has you accusing me of illogic, how are you not prejudiced? Did I for once mention God? You are so prejudiced it blinds you and makes just as dogmatic, free your mind.

And I will still tell you that arguing for an "outside" on a topic about why "supernatural" things(or anything) cannot be there(because there isn't an outside) would be to argue in support of that "supernatural" thing...
It's like in a debate of how the earth couldn't be 6,000 years, you start by supporting points that it is,so what do you expect to be replied about?....
Again, it's either you have no clue of this or you're trolling...

LordReed:
You are the dumb one here because I have not mentioned God, simply wanted to point out the deficiency in your first post. Your prejudice stands revealed.

Actually all your posts have been to propose the universe having an outside,on a topic solely for addressing how an outside isn't feasible(and so things like a "god" couldn't be there because there's no outside)...so prejudice I am not, nice try.
so again....it's either you really lack comprehension skills or just trolling..

Hiswordxray:
If I have any sickness want so ever I would apply the new testament method i.e I would heal it in the name of Jesus. I haven't taken any drug for a long time (since when I discovered I could heal myself with the name of Jesus).

Oh,so you pick and choose which part of the bible to apply to your life?
Did "god's word" suddenly became inert in the old testament?...and isn't it ironic that you'll jump from which part of the bible to apply to your life just because it's convenient to you?

The world and science is backward but instead of you people to try to meet up, you boast of your ignorance.

Well it's the "world"and it's "ignorance"that allows this form of instant communication...

So I don't need the world's cure because God's grace is sufficient for me. In Christ I have a drug that can cure all sickness.

Good,so where were you during the ebola pandemic?

Hiswordxray:
Somebody said davien is a female but davien claim he is a male. OK, davien if you are a male then how are you a female?

That is exactly how your question sound like.
How can you take the world's wrong explanation of time and space, and create a question out of this incorrect explanation?
Your question is based on a wrong premise.

Well the "world's explanation" is based on empirical data acquired up until this moment....and I'd prefer that,over invalidated claims everyday...
If you had leprosy,would you take the world's cure or the biblical cure that's to kill two birds and dip the second birds' blood on your skin?

LordReed:
Yes only atheist can comprehend the workings of the universe. /s

Stop saying space expands into it itself, it is impossible. It is expanding, simple.

Edit: scientists simply don't know what is beyond the universe because the "edge" of the universe cannot be observed.

And like I said,do not reply before comprehending..
scientist say they don't know what is beyond the observable universe ....i.e the universe that is made visible by light....and to say the universe has an edge would be to say it is finite and has a centre of gravity,which isn't the case.
What's really sad here is that all logic and science must be abandoned in pace of your "god".....

mumumugu:
. Things in the Bible that Christians don’t believe


God is a genocidal,

Children are property and should be beaten.

Women are property and should be silent and sold into slavery.


Adulterers should be stoned to death.

Slavery is ordained and facilitated by God.

All the other silly rules in the Old Testament.

The creation story.

The Ten Commandments.

The importance of family lineage.

That faith will protect you.

The infallibility of the Bible.

That the creator of the universe lived in a temple and demanded blood sacrifices.

Actually creationists believe the creation story,they try to demote any form of knowledge that goes against it...

malvisguy212:
if what you say is true, they must have got this idea from the bible, the bible make this claimed first. The Jews existed before the Hindu.

but not before the sumerians

malvisguy212:
the bible is not written for scientific purpose ,it is written for men who want to have a personal relationship with his creator, but the bible make some scientific claimed that science did not confirmed it until recently,the bible say the universe is temporary the bible even went on and claimed "God expend the universe " the bible claimed the universe had a beginning, although not All scientists agreed on this, BUT majority of scientists agree the universe had a beginning.All this discovery are not confirmed until now. This is why I believe the bible is the word of God.

And before the bible hindu texts claimed that everything had a beginning also and that all life on earth are related..

malvisguy212:
God is a spirit, bible say "one thousands years is like yesterday to God" there are many things you guys don't know. I just pray God revealed Himself to you guys. Thank you for your time.

So the bible tells you what "god" is? so how do you know the bible is true then?...bible says bible is true?

malvisguy212:
God is not a material object that needed time to exist, there are many prophecies in the bible that the prophet use present tens, among many is isaiah,"unto us a child IS born" this is present tens for future event.

And I present many verses in my first post that indicated God is acting out side time.

why do you use a present tense sentence in expectation of future tense.....is that how it's used in english...

LordReed:
Bolded is impossible. Something cannot expand into itself, expansion means in a sense acquiring more volume or filling out a volume. If the universe is expanding then it is either "acquiring volume" or filling out some other volume. The corollary is the is an outside of the universe so in essence the is an outside of space.

BTW the geometry can hardly be called flat if it is expanding in all directions at once.

This is why one needs to comprehend something before replying....why we say the universe is flat is because any given line drawn from points(a,b, and c) in space stay parallel(plus the mathematical derived geometry from the nature of the cosmic microwave background)
And why I said space expands into itself is because it's in a 4-dimensional plane and hence just expands(carrying everything along with it)......although my answer is just how I understand it....the scholarly answer is that your question does not apply to 4-dimensional expanding space..

A theist was seated next to an atheist girl on an airplane and he
turned
to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike
up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
The little atheist girl, who had just started to read her book(The God delusion), replied to the
total
stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
"Oh, I don't know," said the theist. "How about why there is God,Heaven and Hell, or life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
"Okay," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask
you a question first. The sun,you and a car,all use energy to maintain their respective internal processes but each give off different things...the sun gives off UV radiation,you give off CO2+water and heat and cars give off CO,why is that?
The theist, visibly surprised by the little atheist girl's intelligence,
thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea." To which
the little atheist girl replies, "Do you really feel knowledgeable to discuss
"God, Heaven and Hell, or life after death", when you don't know how physics or reality works?"
And then she went back to reading her book...

PastorAIO:
Mr Davien, I don't like how you are just blatantly ignoring me. Deze bloods you are sharing. Dairis God o! No wahala.

lol...abeg I get work oh(just done anyway) will get to you soon..

LordReed:
Question for you, what is the universe expanding into?

Sorry for the late replies everyone....I was at work,now before giving you the answer you should be aware that the universe is part-vacuum(well most of space)part-energy(dark energy being more abundant) and part-matter(dark matter also more abundant),with the geometry of space being flat....all of those properties combined,gives us a universe that expands into itself having infinite expansions between celestial bodies....

Eberex:
.................and to add to that, God has no attribute to time.

And you know this how?

undercat:
Are we speaking about an omnipresent god here?

That is in itself another contradiction...so one can't say where the "god" specifically is,it could be in my poo,my bag,my nostrils etc

Eberex:
I dont need any link to back up my saying that trying to understand God is far way beyond human intelligence

That is because you use faith and I don't......and that is why you are more susceptible to false information.