₦airaland Forum

PhysicsHD:
I think people like the OP, are confusing a system indicative of an earlier stage of development meant not for states but for village communities for the classical Athenian representative democracy of the Athens city-state. At some point every group in Nigeria, every group in Africa, and possibly even every group in the world had what the op is calling "Traditional Igbo Democracy" when living only in village communities but moved past that when powerful individuals in large cities gained a monopoly on power and embarked on ambitious state building. Pre-state organization across all societies would look like what is being called "Traditional Igbo Democracy." The organization of many stateless Native American groups in North America could be called "traditional democracy" and Benjamin Franklin commended them for their democracy, but the reality is that as communities reach sizes and engage in defensive (military) activity and political decisions for which direct democracy is ineffective, centralized government of some kind, whether absolute monarchy, limited monarchy, nominal monarchy, representative democracy, or a fusion of these of some sort must supersede traditional democracy.

The Benin people for example were originally a "confederation" of traditional democracy practicing towns, until the largest town became a center of authority- Igodomigodo, which later became known as Benin - after which the zoning of power among different elders stopped and it become a real state.



from A. Ikechukwu Okpoko, "ARCHAEOLOGY AND THE STUDY OF EARLY URBAN CENTRES IN NIGERIA"


EARLY URBAN CENTRES—A HISTORICAL SURVEY

In the north Kanem-Bornu, as the name implies, was a two phased empire of the
Kanem and Bornu. The Kanem phase had its foundation in the first millenium A.D.
when the Magumi nomads are said to have united the sedentary Zagawa and Kanuri
people living in the northeast of present Lake Chad into a kingdom of Kanem with
its capital at Njimi. Njimi was abandoned by about the 14th century for another
well-fortified capital at Ngazargamu, west of Lake Chad. This capital thrived during
the reign of Mai Idris Aloma (1571-1603).
Kano was powerful enough to embark on military expansion from about 11th cen-
tury A.D., and built city walls between the 11th and 12th centuries.
From 14th and 15th centuries onwards Hausaland began to be absorbed into the
trans-Saharan trade system. As time went by each Hausa city saw the benefits of
such trade and tried to capture strong trading centres. Zaria, for instance, was strong
enough by the 15th century, under the legendary Queen Amina (said to have been
the first real Hausa empire builder) to embark on military exploits and build city
walls in various areas she conquered. Also by the 15th century Katsina had devel-
oped as a terminus of the trans-Saharan route and a commercial centre for the whole
of Hausaland.
In the first half of the 16th century, Kebbi became an imperial power while in the
second half of the same century Kwararafa rose as a strong force. Also by the 16th
century, Zamfara (an agricultural city hemmed in by other powerful cities, such as
Kebbi, Ahir, Gobir, Katsina and Kano) became powerful enough to extend her influ-
ence and to fight wars to the River Niger. Rivalries and conflicts between the lead-
ing cities prevented any of them from forming a virile empire. However, each of the
Hausa cities performed specific functions connected with the growth and security of
the various cities. Thus, for instance, Gobir, located at the fringes of the desert
“served as the northern outpost of Hausaland.” It guarded the whole of Hausaland
against attackers, especially the Tuaregs, from the desert. “Zaria to the south was the
procurer of slaves while Kano and Katsina were trading cities; Rano was an indus-
trial centre while Daura remained the spiritual home of the Hausa” (Mabogunje,
1968: 105).
By 1517 the Igala kingdom with its capital at Idah was strong enough to engage
in a major war with the Benin kingdom. Boston (1968: 7- dated the beginnings of
the present Igala kingship at Idah between the 13th and 16th centuries.
The Yoruba in southwestern part of Nigeria and in some parts of the Republics of
Benin and Togo organised themselves into many kingdoms. The most prominent
among these were Oyo, Ekiti, Ondo, Ife, Egba, Ijebu, Igbomina and Awori king-
doms (Oguntomisin, 1988: 227). The Yoruba oral tradition points to Ile-Ife as the
most ancient city in Yorubaland.
The Old Oyo empire was one of the largest and most powerful Yoruba kingdoms.
The expansionist Oyo was resisted from the 14th century onwards by Borgu and
Nupe because they feared their being absorbed into Oyo. Borgu and Nupe also
feared that Oyo might take a strategic position in the trans-Saharan trade to the dis-
advantage of both kingdoms. The capital of Oyo was eventually sacked and the peo-
ple moved to Igboho, but after a period, the rulers of Oyo returned to their former
capital and improved on their military technique and administrative machinery.
According to Mabogunje (1968: 78) the Yoruba towns grew basically as adminis-
trative centres “and over the centuries had evolved elaborate power structure and
hierarchial system of administration both at the city level and the level of a king-
dom.” For instance, Old Oyo empire was divided into four provinces.
The size of the Benin kingdom with its capital at Benin-city varied according to
different periods as a result of conquests, dynastic connections, trade contacts and
sentimental ties (Igbafe, 1977: 16).
Omoregie (1982: 7-9) identified the different independent communities as areas
and streets in present day Benin City. He further claimed that the Odionwere system
(the rule of the oldest man in a given community) underlay the political practice of
these communities. The Odionwere held his position by age and was the supreme
authority in his village — holding the spiritual, political and judicial powers. He
ruled with a council of village elders, Iko Edievbo. The closely juxtaposed villages
formed a common council, Iko Edionwere (plural of Odionwere), for the purpose of
solving inter-village problems. As the Edionwere in the village communities formed
Iko Edionwere, they established a medium for unifying all the thirty-one village
communities of Ubini (Benin). It was a council of equals. The measures and direc-
tives were not usually very effective in all the individual communities, but such
measures and directives at least laid the foundation for administering villages
through councils. The oldest of them all known as Oka Edionwere was the head of
the council. Assisting him was another Odionwere known as Okaiko. Oka
Edionwere was usually very old and senile, so Okaiko took charge. When this
opportunity came to Igodo—a prominent Odionwere—a leader in a community
called Idunmwunvbioto, he transformed this leadership into the Benin monarchy.
Igodo began the Ogiso monarchy in pre-colonial Benin. Under him, the Benin
monarchy embodying various communities was called Igodomigodo, meaning town
of towns, as well as the land of Igodo. It is said that he removed political authority
from the Edionwere and retained the system as a sub-ordinate authority. The pre-
ogiso era is said to be before 900 AD, and Ogiso era and the establishment of the
Benin kingdom is placed at around 900-1300 AD.
The Igbo communities have been generally described as acephalous, but Igbo vil-
lage-group states with their capitals at Nri, Arochukwu, Onitsha, Oguta, Aboh and
Osomari—have been well-studied and documented (Nzimiro, 1972; Onwuejeogwu,
1981; Dike & Ekejiuba, 1990). However, state formation was a recent phenomenon
in Igbo history. Apart from Nri, these village-group states developed in the 17th cen-
tury as a result of contacts with the neighbouring Igbo and non-Igbo groups and
later, as a result of the trans-atlantic trade. Nri and Arochukwu in the 13th and 17th
centuries, respectively, had considerable populations to visit and supervise various
settlements that dotted parts of Igboland. Like the Yoruba towns, these Igbo towns
grew basically as administrative centres.




Incidentally, it is not a little surprising to see the fundamental difference in perspective on the necessity or non-necessity of a centralized hierarchy playing itself out in another sharply divided discussion again after many decades.

I guess you know as much as I do that politics is very local. The cradle of any political system points to a certain village form of the government of the people by the people and for the people before its transformation to either oligarchy or monarchy due to certain circumstances.

The unforeseen circumstances which transformed traditional democracy into traditional monarchy is the factor that set Ndigbo apart from dissimilar ethnic groups in cesspit called Nigeria. The traditional village democracy that transverses Igbo land remained unalloyed by both the factors considered foreseen or unforeseen circumstances even with the introduction of “Warrant Chiefs” by the colonial British.

Every successful country and government had allowed the infusion of traditional and cultural dictates into the system. I shall never call for Nigeria to adopt Igbo traditional democratic system but will agitate for republic of Igbo land where such traditional and cultural values shall be incorporated into the system of government they prefer.

All the so-called empires that dotted the surface of African soil were all VILLAGE EMPIRES.

PhysicsHD:
Lol, source? (for all three of the claims in these two sentences)

Pal, I am of the view you are more than knowledgeable to request for the source.

alj harem1:
afam, why not a system that represent every single ethnic group, as a form of Parliament, where every ethnic group leader can discuss on the issue of nigeria instead of just WAZOBIA

also, there should be advantages to the community where resources are been mined

This is what Americans termed as mumbo-jumbo.

alj harem1:
how does bluetooth's post relate to biafra why do you have to bring biafra here

Even if it is jammed to your nose, you will still not perceive the scent.    

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=581958.msg7491547#msg7491547 date=1294526446]roll eyez.

I know that it's a must for you to want to sound smart, but plz stop posting like you're dealing with a demon within you.[/quote]It takes one dealer to know another. By the way, how body?

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=581958.msg7491515#msg7491515 date=1294526127]Not really about tribalism.i personally think the system is just being exaggerated here.how can it work in a multi-cultural settings when nigeria is not made of ibo alone ?[/quote]This is one among many reasons Biafrans continue to agitate for a nation state they can call homeland.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=581958.msg7491378#msg7491378 date=1294524852]from what we know from history the system worked in village settings.so how do you bring such to present day nigeria situation ?[/quote]Are you the only person who does not know seeds gave rise to trees?

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=581958.msg7491188#msg7491188 date=1294523482]We are talking about pre-colonial era oga.[/quote]Of course, my posts were centered on the pre-colonial era. Look pal, Ndigbo had classical democracy where age groups perform certain functions. Most of the age groups were congregated by first male child of the families or males who have proven themselves worthy of a title.

jason123:
I am confused. No one said that democracy cannot be learnt from the igbos. All they are saying is it can only work in the local level. Nationally, it would not work because your country does not only consist of igbos but yorubas, hausas and over 250 other groups. What might work for the Ndigbo community might not work for the benins and vis-versa. Btw, why don't we learn from the yorubas and binis? I still prefer their type of democracy where the cheifs talk to a central ruler before a decision is made. That way, power would not be centralised.mo.

What obtained in Yoruba, Benin or Hausa lands was a monarchical system of government or simply a king in council. It was not democracy by any stretch of imagination.

Even the British did not understand the system of government in Igbo land as they raved about the societal organization in Yoruba, Benin and Hausa lands because it looked similar to what they practiced, thus, monarch.

However when social revolution swept across entire European nations, the idiotic British could not summon the courage to accept the fact a superior system of government, thus, democracy existed in Igbo land before they visited Africa.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=581958.msg7491016#msg7491016 date=1294521799]This, we can learn from the yoruba or benin system of government. [/quote]It is an arrant nonsense to suggest we learn defense or economic policy from Yoruba or Benin system of government when both capitulated at sight of British soldiers. It must be recall Ndigbo clandestinely resisted British influence till the time of amalgamation of the Protectorates.

It is amazing how ethnic bias could blur intellectual capacity of certain folks to grasp the existence of basic and culturally induced democracy in Igbo land even when they have sort of fundamental links in Igbo land.

Although Atiku is uncharacteristically unsettled, he is more politically prudent than GEJ.

Niger Delta

It is unfortunate few people are totally misusing the word: EDUCATION in their carriage of this argument. EDUCATION is not limited to the process of obtaining certificates from institution established through western civilization. Most of the contributors to this discuss had insinuated that to obtain any form of certificate from schools styled in the western civilization curriculum amounts to education. This stream of thought, mainly among Africans, is the bane of the continent’s socio-politico-economic growth.

I had rather vote for well-articulated market woman in Ariara International Market than GEJ, Buhari, Atiku or Ribadu. Nigerians must try to shy away from laying much emphasis on academia when choosing a leader. After all, most of the leaders that nursed USA to the position of superpower were tailors, cobblers and millers.

Goofy Interloper

seanet02:
@dede1, men you always dispt me and any other reasonable person here, buhari is the most credible man for the post. Or you will buy a ticket for uzor kalu with all he turned abia to

Pal, you make domesticated monkeys appear indispensible as you continuously show a considerable level of ignorance. For the sake of sanity, I plead with you to read beyond sectional politics.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=580174.msg7478329#msg7478329 date=1294364615]Ehrrm, you're going to have to point out that exact post

So saying the asset is questionable since the source of the assets was not produced, meant that I "manipulated" her as being possibly dirty?

I have the utmost respect for that woman, and I'll keep the reason(s) private since I'm supposed to be assuming she's possibly dirty lol[/quote]By whom they associate, we shall know them. I am not surprised this revelation because Ileke- Idi could be dubious at times.

Muhammadu Buhari is the living example of what is wrong with Nigeria. The man is a competent fraud and the product of disgraceful nepotism. He might have been qualified as infantry soldier but a commissioned officer of Nigeria armed forces. The brazen display of nepotism by northern region politicians and government of Tafawa Balewa by absorbing northerners such Buhari into Nigerian officer’s cadre led to January 15, 1966 coup.

Both the post and its heading are not only misleading but intellectually dishonest. The constitution had granted “every qualified Nigerian” the privilege to contest election in Nigeria. However, this privilege must satisfy the provision under section 131C. Of course, GEJ could be stop from contesting presidency under the platform of PDP if the party kicks GEJ out of the PDP for anti-party activities.

@POST

What else does anybody expect from man who has robbed and looted his country’s coffer and still walks the streets unmolested?

seanet02:
@dede1 look at you, seems you have been living under the rock when the north was declared as the most backward and most poverty stricken region in the country despite the fact that people like this senator were once minister of education yet they can not make a single impact. He is a not-so-smart not-so-smart person just like you.

Boy, to say you are an intellectual interloper is an understatement. I guess you are not as physically dilapidated as your stream of thoughts appears.

seanet02:
This is what ojukwu want to achieve with AHIARA declaration.

What does a wily dunce such as you know about Ahiara Declaration? You are one misguided and deranged goat. Oloshi

Eziachi:
Who exactly is the onlooker?I wasn't asking you to agree with me by any means but all I know is that in a every gang group, there is the guys and then the other guys. There are southerners that joined the northern elite in creating meaningless states as means of siphoning money but, how many of them where there when the decisions were actually made?
Have you forgotten how Ukiwe left because he wasn't ready to play the boy-boy role to the northern boys of which Aikhomu has not problem filling the gap he left?
What you and Jibril Aminu should ask yourselves is this: If Ahmadu Bello was asked that Nigeria should adopt unitary system in 1960 when he was scared of the likes of Zik and Awo dominating the north, will he had signed for an independent structured that way? Isn't the reason they delayed the independent originally scheduled for 1958 because the north wanted a federal structure that will grand them autonomy to do their own thing?
Chaotic nature of Nigeria suits the likes of Aminu, just like a pick pocket that doesn't like orderliness. You seriously expect a butcher to support a vegetarian way of life campaign?

There is no doubt that you and I are not the only navigators to this forum. Also, I have never expected you to write in consensus with my views. However, I would like to draw your attention to1967 when the creation of states was jumpstarted in Nigeria. I know you will agree with me northern region of Nigeria was not the only region that sustained such ill-conceived and murderous machination.

You wrote; “Have you forgotten how Ukiwe left because he wasn't ready to play the boy-boy role to the northern boys of which Aikhomu has not problem filling the gap he left?” This is very irrelevant to the issue of cradle of states in Nigeria.

You wrote; “If Ahmadu Bello was asked that Nigeria should adopt unitary system in 1960 when he was scared of the likes of Zik and Awo dominating the north, will he had signed for an independent structured that way?” You should not pose this question to me. Again the question has the demeanor of a misplaced priority and directed to the wrong person.

If I remembered correctly, Nigeria under Gowon abolished regional federalism for unitary statism and only one region out of four stood up against it. I honestly agree with Senator Jubril Aminu when he said that disintegration of Nigeria can not be achieved through peaceful means. All these people shading crocodilian tears about the present state of the cesspit called Nigeria are either delusional or immune to political reality.

Kobojunkie:
It is not . . . well, not according to the Ivorian Constitution. The Electoral commission is a body INDEPENDENT of the constitutional council. Granted the IEC announcing the results from Ouattara's campaign headquarters is cause for concern, the actions of the constitutional council however was most definitely UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Kobo, I appreciate your indulgence in disabusing your mind about the illogical analogy being thrown recklessly around when people ask why Gbagbo accepted the results of the first round of the election but the second. There is no doubt in my mind the second election result announced in the political headquarter of Ouattara was an international con job.

Since Ivorian Constitutional Council is an integral part of Ivorian electoral process, its decision must be respected.

@tex, Jen and Kobo

I am not an expert on the Ivory Coast's electoral process. However, we must be very careful not to throw away bad water with the baby. It is my understanding that When the first round's election result was announced, it was neither in hotel headquarter of Gbagbo nor that of Quattera. Is not brazenly against the run of political sanity that the second electoral result was announced in Hotal du Golf, the alleged campaign headquarter of Ouattara before the so-called international press or observers instead of Ivorian national media source?

I shall be all ears if anybody could categorically inform me that the Ivorian Constitutional Council is not a part of Ivorian electoral machination. The people are not necessarily the final arbiter in electoral process period.

@POST

GEJ is a rare political interloper. Only a novice can label him as an imitator.

Eziachi:
Elite like Jubril Aminu understands that fear is very powerful weapon, especially when it comes to holding people down. If every man or woman is thinking about the possibilities of a divorce, I am sure that no one will ever get married.
They know how to tell us what the problems are, but did you see where he offered any sort of solution? All he was saying is just keep the statu quo.
He seems to have problem that there are 60K medical students in a country they claimed to have 140 million people. Which when you carefully analyses it, that is not enough doctors to go round and tomorrow when he is sick, he will be the first to run abroad irrespective.

It was his elitist northern brothers with guns that started turning local councils in the north into states as an instrument of siphoning oil money that never belongs to them and now he woke up to know that no one knew about these PLACES before hand. He knew it, they knew and we all knew it that the continued existence of Nigeria as an entity ruled from one source in the 21st century from a third world's environment perspective is not sustainable and very much unworkable.

I do not agree with these statements as they are very deceptive to undiscerning onlooker. There were enough southern trolls who willingly joined the northern elites with guns in turning local councils within Nigeria into states as an instrument of siphoning oil money.

It is unfortunate you posited that crude oil money does not belong to northern Nigerians or elites. The last time I checked though, the money Nigeria accrued from crude oil, even the last cent, belongs to all Nigerians regardless of ethnicity. In fact, if you check the history of crude oil exploration in Nigeria, the northern region of Nigeria has a bunch to say about it.

seanet02:
@dede, what else do you know apart from posting garbage and junks like your s.t.u.p.i.d. Jubrik Aminu, your are simply a good fool for afternoon celebration, have not been able to know why you cant just use your brain even if its not as efficient as that of a RAT

It is a well understood fact your idiocy remains unfortunately inherent. I guess stupidity can not be fixed. You are a living example of this unfortunate fact. By the way, the academic record Jubril Aminu dropped on the academia from baba Awolowo’s domain is growing taproot yet you have audacious pedigree to open your putrid mouth.

Kobojunkie:
Africans need to stop cooking up stories all in a bid to justify stupidity. The constitutional council never disqualified Ouattara as a candidate – it had the power to, if it chose but it didn’t. Ouattara fairly contested and was neither disqualified from moving on to the second round. At no point did the constitutional council consider disqualifying Ouattara , so I suggest you ask yourself if you are even in touch with reality in this at all.

No, I do not work for Gbagbo but sick and tired of colonial involvement in African affairs.

Are you referring to the same constitutional council that should have allowed the people of Ivory Coast to decide their president?  In all these electioneering quagmires in Ivory Coast, I deduced that the genuine result was released by the constitutional council as oppose to the fake announced by foreign led Ivorian Electoral Commission.