₦airaland Forum

CoronaVirusPro:
Don’t even quote that book again. Contradicts itself in many ways.

In another verse, he said all he created is good.

1 Timothy 4:4

For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

We are on the same page.

CoronaVirusPro:
No way God created all of us on Earth

The devil was also creating his own kind but was just not documented.

No way you can be a creation of God and be so heartless.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV -
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Idaytesj29:
War you said? Okay. War involves 2 state armies, not on side doing the bombings, bombing people and some ragtag resistance. That's not war that's ethnic cleansing and deprivations.

Thank you.

11doubledee:
And since you want to justify terrorism,why should it stop then?
Since you dont want to accept October 7,2023 was a major escalation in this conflict and that alot of lives on both sides could have been saved today,why screams of "Alien" genocide?
Apparently you saying it should continue, so tell me why it should stop?
Hamas is also free to continue from where they stopped on October 7,2023, nobody is holding them.

Why do you enjoy apartheid?

Kukutente23:
The Israelites have been on the land for over 6000 years
But they have less right to the land than those who have been there for less than half of that period according to your logic
You're seriously making sense

The Israelites have not been there for any 6000 years. Unless you are suggesting Abraham who was a Chaldean was there at the time of Adam.

Secondly the Jews of today are not the Israelites of old.

Thirdly even if they are, any population that has also been there for over a millennium are at the minimum, co indigenes.

mikeapollo:
So in your mind and in your understanding, Arabs were the original owners of Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Hebron, Beersheba?
A lot of Israeli Jews migrated to and had children. Their descendants are back to their forefathers land.
Anybody that does not like that should go and join Hams or go complain to UN or go jump into the sea. Simple!

Canaanites, were there before your Jews and your Jews committed genocide against them.

What was the crime of the inhabitants of Jericho before the blood thirsty pagan deity called Yahweh instructed the Jews to obliterate them and seize it for themselves?

Jakumo:
I will NEVER touch touch the anointed blokkos of Sheikh Gummi in Jeeeesus name. Let me hear somebody shout Hallelujah!

I will address all Fulani cow men as MEGIDA or OGAAJO to avoid aaabaaamo. Praise the Lord!

I will ALWAYS smile and wave like a simpleton whenever I see Ogaajo Dan Fulani's cows enjoying and destroying my crops free of charge.

Kukutente23:
When did Arabs become indigent to Palestine? That's the question none of you can answer!!

They have been on the land for some 1300 years.

Where in the world can it ever be said that people who have been anywhere for that long are not indigenes?

Kukutente23:
Yes it started in 1948 and the Arab impostors attacked first

It is absurd to call defense of your land from a European settler project as "attacking first."

Kukutente23:
It seems these pro-Palestinian terrorist sympathizers now live in absolute obsession of anything and everything that happens to them being from Israel

Even if the wind blows too cold they blame Israel

Yet they will never blame the terrorists who unleashed terror on innocent citizens who were going about their daily business on Oct 7th

Oct 7th happened!

It was carried out by Palestinian terror group Hamas. Hamas and all its affiliates rejoiced at the wanton death and destruction they unleashed on innocent people on that day!

Let no one in their self-induced mass delusions forget that!

This did not start on October 7. We have repeated that ad infinitum ad nauseum.

zoomzoom:
The Ibru dynasty.

These are the richest men in Nigeria during a period where quack historians claim Louis Ojukwu was the richest in Nigeria.

Did Louis Ojukwu own a bank
Did Louis Ojukwu own a shipping line
Did Louis Ojukwu own a jetty

These are the rich forevers.
These are the people who can rub shoulders with the Dantata's. Take note, Dangote is a Dantata!


When we are talking of the OLD MONEY,a BABY EAGLET is talking about the nouveau rich.
Sir Louis ojukwu was THE BANK, THE CBN,THE NNPC OF NIGERIA.
Go and read your history and stop disgracing your ignorance online.

And what is your understanding of what a jetty is, such that only a billionaire can have one?

Adakintroy:
You can conclude. But like I said it's the Hallmark of intelligent mind to stand back until all evidence are fully vet

I am agreeing with you - in that I found it hard to believe that a four year old could make that accusation (without adult prompting or supervision) and thus that also makes me pause in terms of concluding.

When I said the man is despicable, I am not talking about this accusation. He is a known virulent pro apartheid racist and he doesnt hide his own.

Onewazobia:
How please

Me think he's a normal person, just having a relatively higher IQ above several of us

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

His IQ is NOT special in anyway whatsoever.

Adakintroy:
When ever you hear "accused" stand back and resist the temptation to conclude.

It the Hallmark of intelligent mind not to judge until all evidence are assembled.

Fair enough. Even though there is more than enough evidence in the public space of just how despicable this man is, I had to pause and wonder what a four year old girl would know about being touched inappropriately, in order to say such, at that age, against her father.

LordReed:
We are in trouble with this AI thing o! That image of Trump and Obi is so realistic unlike the MC Oluomo one.

Pictures are even just one thing which almost everyone is now wary of. Deep fakes of videos and voices is more alarming.

On a lighter note, Ganduje claimed the video of him stuffing dollars was a Deep Fake.

emmy512:
I just laughed seeing that comment

Took it as a joke

Thought so because of the emoji but further exchanges showed he was not joking.

triplechoice:
Thank you for the detailed response. I do appreciate it. My apologies for not keeping my word to reply to you after work the other day. I had typed a response but deleted it when I revisited what you said in your initial reply: "I don't know if predestination exists or not," along with your definition of how religious people use the word.

Those statements are the root of the issue and the reason we've been talking past each other. You're arguing from a position of philosophical determinism, employing scripture secondarily to support the view of a fixed cause and effect universe. However, you're doing so by insisting that specific Bible verses can only mean absolute predestination, a theological concept you claim not to know exist , is true or understand.

There's no consistency in defining authoritatively a theological principle for others that you're agnostic about yourself. " You don't know but also know at the same time" .If you don't know what predestination is, how can you be certain that the Christian God must conform to your deterministic interpretation of it

I will come back to this later after tackling the Bible verses you brought in.

The scriptures you cited don't equate Islamic fatalism . Your selective interpretation of them without counterbalancing with other verses in the same Bible is why you believe that.

Romans 8: 29-30, Jeremiah 1:15, and Psalm, 139: 16 speak powerfully of the Christian God's foreknowledge. However, a foreknowledge of someone's path isn't the same as mechanically pre-determining every step . The Christian God knew the entirety of Jeremiah's life in a single glance, but this doesn't negate Jeremiah's own " yes" to the calling .


An analogy may make it more clearer. Imagine a designer who has an ultimate purpose for a device, like a smartphone being used for communication. The designer's will is fulfilled, but not by micro-managing every text sent or calls made . The specific journey is co-created with the users' free choices. This analogy, though not perfect,is the coherent framework that makes sense of the Christian God's sovereignty , meaningful human prayer and actions .Philippians , 2: 12-13. " Therefore , my beloved..work out your salvation with fear and trembling , for it is God who works in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure".

If the Christian God has immutably will it for believers to have salvation ,why then the advice for them to work for it with fear and trembling? please answer that.

The Potter and the clay ( Romans 9) . This is the key text for your position. However, it's primary context is for the Christian God's sovereign right to choose nations for his redemptive purposes , like choosing Israel, then including the Gentiles. It's not the micro- management of every individual's action. The next chapter, Romans: 10, is a conditional statement which emphasizes human responsibility. " If you confess with your mouth...and believe in your heart....you will be saved " ( Romans, 10: 9)

Isaiah 46: 10-11, " My counsel shall stand" .This refers to the Christian God's ultimate,macro- level purposes for creation and redemption. His overarching plan will be accomplished. However, the means by which it is accomplished are the real choices of individuals . The "bird of prey from the east", Cyrus, was a real historical figure who made his own decisions, yet the Christian God used those decisions to actualize his larger will.

Your approach of isolating verses brings to mind a common interpretative error concerning the " Parable of the Mustard seed". Many Christians and non Christians read it and interpret it literally to mean the quantity of the faith: "Small faith" ."just have small faith and God will answer your prayers". But in the right context and alongside Jesus rebuking his disciples for having "little faith, during the storm, it becomes very clear the parable is about the quality of the faith, a faith that like a small mustard seed is certain of its growth when planted in the right soil.

You're applying a similar method. You're isolating verses about the Christian God's foreknowledge, reading them with a deterministic lens, and separating them from the counterbalancing narratives of human agency and changed outcomes. This is not drawing meaning out of the text, it is imposing a meaning onto it to fit your philosophical framework.

This problematic approach is rooted in a deeper, fundamental error. You're attacking a definition of 'destiny' and 'the future' that does not exist outside of pure fatalism.

You insist that 'religious people' see destiny as 'something specifically placed in the future,' as if the future were a fixed, pre-written script or a physical location we are destined to arrive at. You then argue against this simplistic idea. But this is a strawman.

Anyone with a commonsense understanding of time knows there is no 'future' out there as a real place to walk into. The only thing that exist is the present moment, not the past nor the future. The future has always been understood, in both religious and secular thought, as the emerging result of a million present moments The accumulation of past actions, current choices, and their consequences. It is not a destination, but one in the making .

This is precisely why the Christian God, in the non-fatalistic view, incorporates human agency. Your interpretation of the Bible verses relies on first misconstruing the very concept of 'future' and then using that misunderstanding to force a fatalistic reading onto the text. It is a circular and flawed way to reason


I was part of the group and can tell your that Eckankar has taken "things" from everywhere , including from the Abrahamic religion to form some of its doctrine. However, this doesn't make it lesser or inferior, it's actually superior to those one in the sense its teachings continue to evolve to meet with the changing times. Eckankar doesn't teach that all of destiny is fixed . I hope you won't have issues with them using that word too? . The religion teaches a blend of fixed and malleable karma:: What one is bound to experience in this life time based on previous life karma and the one that will come based on current life choices. Past life karma is what determines the family one will be born into, the era, county, ethnicity, genetiic and similar others. This what's regarded has fixed karma. You can't change your family of birth through prayers and spiritual exercises. Anyway, I digress.


But how can you, who don't know if the reality of 'destiny' or 'predestination' even exists, presume to dictate the correct terminology for those who live within that belief system? Words gain their meaning from the shared understanding of the community that uses them. You're like a native speaker of English language , with no knowledge of French, insisting that the silent 't' in 'depot' should be removed because it doesn't align with English pronunciation rules. That's certainly ridiculous.

.

Yes, you're very correct in the sense that, the word, change, isn't the right one to use.. So, I have replaced, change, with " align" . However, the "Lord's Prayer" is both affirmation and petition; "give us this day" , deliver us from evil"

If God's will immutably provides bread, why are Christians instructed to ask for it?



However , the petitions in the prayer aren't for changing divine will in a manipulative sense, but about aligning human will with the divine while participating in a relationship where prayers are a genuine factor.


I did not trivialize Gethsemane. It seems you used it to score a point that "prayer didn't even work for Jesus." But the real lesson of Gethsemane is that when a higher, redemptive purpose for all humanity is at stake, submission to divine will transcends personal desire. Jesus's prayer was not "unanswered"; it was answered within the context of a greater good.


This is where you reveal your biases , confirming you're not debating this objectively. What you try to present as factual statements are actually your subjective opinion disguised as truth. Take no offence please it's also my personal about what I observe you do.

If you distrust Prophet Isaiah's revelation to Hezekiah, why do you accept his other revelations you cited as absolute? The consistency of your critique matters.

The Hezekiah's story is not an 'antic' but a cornerstone of a non-fatalistic theology. It presents a genuine prophetic declaration from Isaiah, no different in form from the ones you cited from Jeremiah or Isaiah 46.

Yet, you apply different rules to them. You accept the prophecies about Jeremiah's calling or the Christian God's ultimate counsel as absolute and fixed, but you dismiss the prophecy to Hezekiah with speculation, suggesting it was a self-fulfilling trick. This is inconsistent talk.

The text gives us no reason to treat Hezekiah's prophecy differently. It was a true proclamation from the Christian God based on his foreknowledge of the current path. Hezekiah’s prayer was then a genuine, causal factor the Christian God in his responsive sovereignty, incorporated into a new outcome. This story demonstrates that not all divine declarations are unconditional decrees; some are conditional warnings intended to provoke a response. To ignore this distinction is to ignore the dynamic nature of the Christian God's interactions with people throughout the Bible.



But you haven't shown me you understand what the God will is and how it actually functions. The Bible verses you cited has been misconstrue by you.

Yes , I have read Oedipus Rex. The fictional story is a perfect illustration of pure fatalism which doesn't exist in reality. The prophecy in the narrative is a fixed sentence, and the attempts to avoid it directly cause it. But in the Hezekiah's model, the prophecy is not a fixed sentence. It’s a conditional warning. Hezekiah’s prayer wasn’t an attempt to "trivialize" God's will. It was a plea for alignment. He presented his case, his desire to live, "let me live" and through that process of prayer, his personal will was brought into alignment with the Christian God's merciful will. The outcome was changed not because the Christian God was defeated, but because the relationship between God and Hezekiah or man involved a genuine exchange.

So, when a Christian prays against a dream, he is not trying to thwart a divine decree. He is participating in this dynamic. He is bringing his fear and his desire for protection into alignment with the Christian God's will as a protector and deliverer ," deliver us from evil".He is saying, "May your will to protect me overcome this threat."

You are right that fear can be a problem. But the act of prayer is the prescribed method in Christianity and some other religion for transforming that fear into faith, for moving from a fatalistic anxiety , like Oedipus, to a participatory trust like Hezekiah.

In the end, you see a contradiction where many Christians see a coherent, dynamic relationship. The issue isn't the word "destiny"; it's our starting assumptions about how divine will and human agency interact.

My initial goal in joining this thread was simply to offer a perspective that could resolve the misunderstanding between Westerhoffe and Lordreed. I wanted to show that, from within the Christian tradition itself, there is a coherent framework that views prayer not as an attempt to thwart divine will, but as a dynamic participation in it, a framework supported by scriptures like the story of Hezekiah.

I believe I have presented that case to the best of my ability.

At this point, the discussion has moved into a deeper debate about the core tenets of Christian theology. As someone who does not operate from a Christian worldview, it would be inauthentic for me to continue arguing the intricacies of a doctrine I do not personally subscribe to any longer.

I will therefore leave the conversation here, for the Christians on this forum to continue if they wish. I respect your viewpoint, @DeepSight, and thank you again for the civil and challenging discussion.

Modified. This has cost me my sleep tonight.

Bravo, bravo, bravo. Thank you for the detailed, thorough, scholarly and thoughtful feedback.

Re: loss of sleep: those who burn the midnight oil are pursuers of excellence.

Will revert if and where need be.

Thank you and bless you.

allthingsgood:
And so

What a pity.

Don't you think we should also consider renaming Nigeria Tinubia?

GanagiBitrus:
Who said you should invade their apartment?
There are several ways you can gain access into their flat safely without raising suspicion. Pretend as if you want to borrow something, ask to charge your phone, borrow their car battery...

Look Bro, you are just focused on problems, think solutions & you'll see it's quite easy.

Or perhaps, you are the timid type. I'll excuse you then.

I am not the least bit timid but what you are recommending is not only very dangerous, it is illegal and an invasion of privacy. There is a high risk of discovery which may endanger life. There are appropriate ways to proceed if at all one must be a busy body. Best to first move out and then tip law enforcement.

GanagiBitrus:
Bro, you are not thinking like a detective.

You didn't read where OP said they drive flashy cars without any obvious source of income, +other attributes of Yahoo boys.
Someone from experience even said that what they are pounding every midnight hours might may likely be a human being.

Invading their apartment which is what you suggest is what is actually a crime. Secondly you are not thinking about his personal safety.

GanagiBitrus:
You are not a patriotic Nigerian.
How then do we build a strong and virile nation if citizens are passive to criminal elements around them.

What is the evidence of crime? At best thats noise pollution.

GanagiBitrus:
You no dey watch James Bond and detective movies?
Find way enter their flat and plant hidden camera.
Gather hard evidence against them & present to EFCC.

This is the worst advice ever. He should mind his business and try move out.

federal9:
Reason and phantom out the truth

Fathom

Maxymilliano:
The national library will be named after her. That is the goal

No doubt. Nauseating.

That will require amendment of the National Library Act though - and this NASS will approve.
Nauseating.

And here comes the Remi Tinubu National Library of Nigeria!

If we had 50 Yele Sowore's in this country, govt will sit up by force.

LordReed:
You become functionally immortal and whatever period (that has humans) you are in unlimited money will help ease your way. Yeah maybe controlling people will give you what you want but that brushes up against my personal ethics too much.

Ethics in this playful hypothesis? Lol. If so, then touch none as its all black magic. As per time travel, you can land up anywhere and money may be meaningless there. Aside from the fact that it breaks down all presumptions of usual existence. Time travel is a problematic thing given that we hardly know what time is. You may walk through that door and find yourself in primordial reality or none at all.

Emusan:
I twisted something you read in plain English.

Wahooooo

Here it is again but let me highlight some key part

Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

Forget it. Not interested.

Emusan:
because I didn't provide scripture or what?

You know what you did. You deliberately twisted even the little you brought.

budaatum:
What you've found is the equivalent of looking up a word in a dictionary, when much more is required of you. So go work harder and read a book on the topic so we know you at least tried to learn, and then come see the fossils so you know what you talk about.

I have seen it from a mile away, na Jesus him dey find.

Truthseeker10:
🤣🤣🤣so even meta Ai does not know what a fossil is to come up with such enlightenment about fossils?

Kindly show me where I said that there's nothing like evolution including micro evolution?

Good night.

Truthseeker10:
lol...so I should not believe Ai about fossil records....it is you that has not seen macro evolution occur that I should believe. Thank you sir.

You didnt even understand what you read. If I ask you to explain, you cant.
You dont even know what a fossil is, or what the fossil record is.

Please leave me alone. G find anyone else who can tell you what you want to hear, which is simply that there is nothing like evolution and God created everything, because at the end, nothing else can satisfy you.

Good night.