₦airaland Forum

^^^ Well, Ghandi was not a Christian.

However he lived a most exemplary life. Preaching, advancing and furthering peace and human brotherhood to a degree that very few human beings have done throughout history.

Noetic has often told me that notwithstanding this fact, since he (Ghandi) did not "accept Jesus as his personal lord and savior", he (Ghandi) is going to perish in HELL.

What is your take on this?

^^^ Madam. . . you were supposed to contribute in the other thread?

Why you take off na?

^^^, Ok. . . eagerly awaiting.

Errrmm. . . as an aside . . . let me just say that which I am already notorious for on this forum.

My favourite Poster-Boy. . .Mahatma Ghandi . . . Let us also use his life as a sample for this discussion.

Thanks.

I think its simply unnatural.

Much as doing a squirell might be said to be unnatural.

It could also be physiological or psycological.

Sad, whichever way.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=429591.msg5887495#msg5887495 date=1271203088]Hi DeepSight. Thanks for your well reasoned response. I reply as follows:The Holy Spirit is the will of God the Father that became personal in the work of bringing creations into existence.[/quote]Is the Holy Spirit Parsifal?

The Holy Spirit is personified in the holy words "Let there be Light".

This created Parsifal.

Thus “Let there be Light” is the anchorage of Parsifal outside Divinity.”

Thus “Let there be Light” is the creation of the Super-Ego of the eventual alter-ego called Mr. Abd-Ru-Shin: the writer of the Grail Message.

Confirm please.

No, Jesus is not God the Father but a small part of God the Father.

Again, can intangible God – unchangeable God – ONE God: whose oneness is emphasized – be divided as such?

Can it not also be said that all creation - including humans – are “small parts” of God?

More crucially, are we certain that the ascription of such high office to Mr. Jesus from Nazareth as to virtually put him on equal footing with God – are we sure that this is not a historical hoax?

Jesus Christ as well as the Holy Spirit are sons of God the Father.

Only in the Grail Message is the Holy Spirit described as a “Son” of God.

My perception (apologies to say) is that this high office was created by the writer only on account of the need to place the writer at an exalted point in creation.

Otherwise it is obvious to me that the Holy spirit has never been a “personal” being, but an intangible expression of the living power of God. Like rays from a source of light, or attraction currents from a magnet.

Jesus is the love of God the Father and this Love of God the Father is an integral living attribute of God the Father.

Are there not also other attributes that God has?

If Jesus is the personification of the Love of God, are there beings that are the personification of God’s other attributes? Say his wrath, for example?
Could the one called Satan, personifying darkness, not be a personification of God’s wrath, for example?”

Or the one called Ishtar, not be a personification of God’s dual pull (which in the physical results in sexuality?)

Why are these high offices mysteriously reserved for Jesus and Abd Ru Shin?

Are there not others? Is God not infinite?

In addition, Jesus prays to his Father because the Father is greater than the son. The reason is simple, a small essence of God the Father that is Jesus is naturally drawn to the stronger homogeneous attraction of God the Father. This homogeneous attraction between the son of God and his Father is what can be said to be worship.

Interesting. But being a Divine Being, Jesus ought to know fully well the purpose of his mission, no?

Why then – “If it is possible, let this cup pass. . . “ and “Eli Eli Eli, lama sabatchani?”

Why is Jesus referred to as God’s”Servant” in the Bible?

Commander Nuclear, Howdi?

Seems this thread was abandoned. . . I had quite forgotten about it.

Thanks for bringing it back to life.

jagunlabi:
^^^^ I am sure he was referring to the christian version of salvation or he wouldn't have directed the question at you. Thread was directed at christians who maintain that non-christians will not have what they(christians) think is salvation simply because they (the non-christians) are unbelievers of the christian faith. So, why are you still dragging ya feet? Answer the question from your own christian point of view. How deep sight understands the word is irrelevant at this point. The christian definition(s) that you and the rest of your brethrens hold firmly to is what counts for now. So, go for it.

@ Inesqor - Jagunlabi is right here.

But if you insist, I will say that by "Salvation" I mean "a state after death resulting towards the continuous rise of the human spirit towards realms of LIGHT; HARMONY; PURITY & GOD."

I await your esteemed reversion.

^^^ But seriously Olaadegbu, look at this verse again -

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11).

What other words do you expect that ancient writers would use if a vessel did come and whisk the prophet away upwards?

Clearly they would only use the word "heaven" - this does not mean that you as a rational person should conclude -

1. WHERE they went to (it could have been anywhere - it could even have been just a few kilometres away - just like an air plane that takes off and lands at another location.

2. THAT they went to A SPIRITUAL REALM - with the material physical body.

Such a supposition is intensely ridiculous as a physical thing has no space, no dimension or tangent available to it to ENTER  and REMAIN in that which is already described as intangible.

From where did Elijah's subsequent letter come?

DHL Heaven Ltd? Or. . . Federal Express. . . ?

These guys sha!

From a person who believes affirmatively and has stated repeatedly that Jesus is God, what is the difference between these two statements -

1. Jesus rose to heaven in his physical body

2. God rose to heaven in his physical body.

Judge for yourselves folks.

Whose lying now?

I submit myself to your Judgment!

^^^ Your comments are appreciated.

Hope you've been well? Its been a while.

Let me just say that even if the Trinity were true, (which i firmly disbelieve) - I doubt that God would require of any seeker exact knowledge of such celestial relationships - the simplicity of genuine human brotherhood and love within the heart being all that is required.

Cheers.

Am off to bed. For the sake of the objective reader i present the very clear statements you have made once again – WITH QUOTES.


1. You state that God lives in Heaven in a Physical Body

a.   You stated that Jesus ascended into heaven with a physical body ( provided the quote in post No #89 on this thread.)

b.   You state that Jesus is God. ( provided the quote in post No #89 on this thread.)

c.   Thus inescapable conclusion – God (Jesus) is in heaven with a physical body.


2.   You state that Spiritual realms do not exist

a.   You state that physical things enter into spiritual realms bodily - Your line 3 on Post #14 in this thread.

b.   If that is the case such realms are not immaterial anymore – as they contain material things

c.   It follows that immaterial realms do not exist


3.   You state that Jesus sacrifice was not necessary for man to defeat death

a.   You state that All men require the sacrifice of Jesus to reach heaven

b.   But you state that Elijah and Enoch reached and dwelt in heaven even before Jesus’ sacrifice (I quoted this in Post #98 above)

c.   Thus, inescapably, they did not need the sacrifice

d.   Thus the sacrifice is useless in redeeming man from death.

Ol boy. . . give up the ghost. . .you're making yourself look really queer tonite.

Gnite.

I gat 8am meeting here in Dar es Salaam and its 1 am here already.

^^^ Any person who has a brain can see the inanity of your assertions.

So laugh off, Kid.

It is rather you who shames us all by not being able to handle straight up logic and bleating about quotes when they have been given to you thrice over.

Ha ha ha. . . easy o. . . abi frustration is setting in?

It must set in when you bind yourself in such a tight spot.

We have established that your God dwells in heaven in a physical body. Great.

Let us concentrate on bringing you round to see your other griandose assertions.

Quote from Viaro on April 14 2010/ 08:24:17 PM -

(a) Enoch
The simple testimony of Scripture is that Enoch did not experience death - "Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him" (Heb. 11:5, ESV). For those who wish to argue endlessly to the contrary, my simple request is that they provide me any verse where Enoch is said to have died - death being defined Biblically as 'the body without the spirit' (James 2:26).

(b) Elijah
"Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (1 Kings 22: is an oft-quoted verse to this point, from which we understand that he was taken up bodily into heaven just as was reported of Enoch. There is not a single verse that declares Elijah's death anywhere in Scripture -

GREAT.

So both these vanishing prophets did not die, but were automatically vammoooooosed into heaven.

YOUR words, not mine.

Thus they DID NOT NEED JESUS' DEATH TO ENTER HEAVEN AS JESUS HAD NOT YET DIED, NO?

ALSO THEY WERE NOT SUBJECT TO DEATH AS NECESSITATED BY ADAMIC SIN, NO?

I repeat; you are a professional clown.

Handled already: see #94 above.

It might help to put on ya thinking cap.

From Viaro -

What part of the quotes above do we read these LIES you ascribed to me -

(a)
Quote from: Deep Sight on Today at 05:07:12 PM
2.   You state that Spiritual realms do not exist

(b)
Quote from: Deep Sight on Today at 05:07:12 PM
3.   You state that Jesus sacrifice was not necessary for man to defeat death

O, i see you have conceded the first one: namely that it is PROVEN that you assert that God lives in heaven in a physical body. . . now you are concentrating on the other two, ehn?

Progress!

Now as per those two, here it is again, Mr.-you-must-quote-me-otherwise-i-will-deny-the-implications-of-my-statements -

2.   You state that Spiritual realms do not exist

a.   You state that physical things enter into spiritual realms bodily

b.   If that is the case such realms are not immaterial anymore – as they contain material things

c.   It follows that immaterial realms do not exist


3.   You state that Jesus sacrifice was not necessary for man to defeat death

a. You state that All men require the sacrifice of Jesus to reach heaven

b. But you state that Elijah and Enoch reached and dwelt in heaven even before Jesus’ sacrifice

c.   Thus, inescapably, they did not need the sacrifice

d.   Thus the sacrifice is useless in redeeming man from death.

viaro:
And noetic16 also said that;

If you will read the thread you will see that it was him i FIRST attacked for saying that.

I told him the implication. . . namely that he is asserting that God dwells in heaven in a physical body. . . see Post #34 in this thread.

I have quoted you and will quote you again -

Quote from: viaro on April 09, 2010, 08:32 PM -

Quote
It is very conceivable for the material to enter into the spiritual or 'intangible'. Such was the case with Enoch, such is the case of the ascension of Christ, and such is the case of His appearing among His disciples while the doors were shut (John 20:19).

It is not illogical - your own argument is both extreme and illogical. When Jesus rose from the dead, His disciples were able to touch and handle Him (John 20:27). With that same glorified body, He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9).

Who rose with a physical body to heaven in your abov quote? Jesus.

[size=16pt]IS JESUS NO LONGER GOD? ? ? ? [/size]

Joker

O, farf off.

You SAID that Jesus Ascended with his physical body to heaven -

Quote from: viaro on April 09, 2010, 08:32 PM -

It is very conceivable for the material to enter into the spiritual or 'intangible'. Such was the case with Enoch, such is the case of the ascension of Christ, and such is the case of His appearing among His disciples while the doors were shut (John 20:19).

It is not illogical - your own argument is both extreme and illogical. When Jesus rose from the dead, His disciples were able to touch and handle Him (John 20:27). With that same glorified body, He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9).

Is Jesus no longer God? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Joker.

^^^ Sir, why do you keep returning after announcing your exit from the thread - twice?

Perhaps you have something to prove from your inanities about God (Jesus - you say he is God) rising to heaven with a physical body?

Behold all the God of heaven in a physical human body on the throne in Heaven!

No one is a fool here son.

Aa man cannot state that he has two oranges in his left and and two oranges in his right hand and then deny that he has stated that he is carrying four oranges in his hands.

You are unable to contest the toddlers logic set up here and I will leave you to the vicious circle of your denials.

Your words are simple.

You stated that Jesus rose into heaven with his physical body.

You also state Jesus to BE GOD - or do you now deny this?

Thus you clearly state that God rose into heaven with his physical body.

Why is this so painfully embarrassing for you?

Won't waste my time on this. Its clear for all to see.

Since - you wrote and I quote –

viaro:
1.   Jesus is God. That is what John 1:1 declares. Simple. Clear. Lucid.

Your below quoted statement clearly reads as follows -

viaro:
"It is very conceivable for the material to enter into the spiritual or 'intangible'. Such was the case with Enoch, such is the case of the ascension of Christ, GOD and such is the case of His God's appearing among His disciples while the doors were shut (John 20:19).

It is not illogical - your own argument is both extreme and illogical. When Jesus GOD rose from the dead, His disciples were able to touch and handle Him (John 20:27). With that same glorified body, He GOD ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9)."

YOUR WORDS, VIARO, NOT MINE.

GBAM.

viaro:
You post those quotes first before I attend to anything else, as your lying is not impressive at all.

Dont worry: the thread is there for posterity to see.

Any third parties can determine for themselves if I have lied or made a straight forward and binding deduction.

You stated that Jesus (God) rose to heaven with a physical body –

viaro:
It is very conceivable for the material to enter into the spiritual or 'intangible'. Such was the case with Enoch, such is the case of the ascension of Christ, and such is the case of His appearing among His disciples while the doors were shut (John 20:19).

It is not illogical - your own argument is both extreme and illogical. When Jesus rose from the dead, His disciples were able to touch and handle Him (John 20:27). With that same glorified body, He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:9).

You have also stated that that same person that rose into heaven with a Physical body is God -

viaro:
1. Jesus is God. That is what John 1:1 declares. Simple. Clear. Lucid.

So what are you running from?

Your clear statement that God rose into heaven with a physical body?

Stop being such a coward son.

Its not just Noetic that denies that Elijah went to heaven -

YOU LORD JESUS HIMSELF DENIED IT EXPLICITLY.

So what then?

Contradictory scripture?

Both CANNOT be correct.

I am only surprised that you elect to reject Jesus words (considering that he is God) in favour of the writings of mere prophets (his servants).

That's hypocrisy at its finest.

^^^ Did i say it discredits it?

I stated that omnipotence must be understood within the context of unchangeable self-existent realities - which God himself cannot change.

Simple example is the fact that he cannot destroy himself. Because he is self-existent.

How hard is that to grasp?

viaro:
You see, DeepSight, I do have to say once again that you're a hideous and gutless liar on Nairaland. It is beyond shame and sham that you would go about ascribing statements to me that I NEVER in any post in this thread or heretofore made. I would appreciate that you lie to those who like you doing so and not drag me along your duplicity. I have the pleasure of showing the fellow who tried to persuade me that you may have a good intent in this thread to now come and see the idiocy of your lying spree. Enjoy.

Slap! A knock on the head! A thunderous slap again!

Wake up and focus, young man!

Are you a stranger to deductive reasoning? ? ?

EVERY SINGLE STATEMENT I CREDITTED TO YOU IS POSITIVELY AND INESCAPABLY TRUE.

Any person can easily deduce the obvious. . .do not waste my time. . . I hope to lcture in universities. . . not nursery schools.

Perhaps I need to lead you through your statements again.

YOU SAID –

1. Jesus rose into heaven bodily with his physical body.

2. You have repeatedly stated that[b] Jesus IS GOD.[/b]

3. Thus GOD is in heaven with a Physical Body.

This is no lie but the VERY DIRECT deduction and implication of your statements in 1 & 2 above.

I am amused that when the embarrassing inanity of your very own confirmed remarks is revealed you prance about screaming “lies! Deceit!”

Come on schoolboy you can do better than that. At least I hope so.

ANY PERSON can assess for themselves your statements in 1 & 2 above and determine freely if the conclusion is not inescapable.

If GOD (Jesus) rose to heaven with a physical body then clearly God is in heaven with a physical body.

Why is it so painfully embarrassing for you that we have revealed your belief that God is in Heaven with a physical body, why? Why? ? ?

No escape: now you can see how clumsy it is to hold tenaciously to an old book of fables and refuse adamantly to apply your own grey matter.

But please do show me where I ever in any line stated that "spiritual realms do not exist" - please where did you see that in viaro's posts in this thread?

Will you school up!

Do I have to spend a lifetime teaching you that 2 + 2 = 4 ? ? ?

You stated that material things dwell in immaterial spiritual realms.

That automatically means that such realms are not immaterial – since they contain material things. Would you say something is intangible if a physical house is part of it? ? ? Of course not.

Thus in your surmise the spiritual realms are NOT immaterial as they contain material things. . .

As such there is no such thing as an immaterial spiritual realm.

Consequently heaven does not exist.

This is YOUR surmise and NOT mine – so if it looks  incongruous then please examine yourself and not me.

Slap! Focus young man.


Did you not also state that Elijah and Enoch did not die but went staright to heaven?

Is this not a direct contradiction of Jesus’ claim that no man had gone there? ? ?

And you stated that they went there even before Jesus died.

Thus they did not need Jesus’ death to get there, no?

Will you stop wasting my time?

viaro:
. . .  that you were not willing to acknowledge what Scripture declares.

Is this dude for real?

Insterest in what scripture declares?

Jesus' declaration that no man had ever been to heaven is not scripture?

Amazing, these dudes.

Slapping Jesus' words this way and that to egoistically assert their vain superiority over a man whom they ironically call God. . .

We are a natural expression of the ultimate transcendental reality, which is what people call God: and that reality requires nothing from us.

Quotes from aletheia -

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And then when? This only suggests that he is an eternal being.

John 10:30-33  I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

How many times on this forum will i have to explain this? ? ?

Bad students, you do not take notes in my class.

Jesus himself explained the term "I and my Father are one" severally. He stated unequivocally that he and his father were one in the same way as we should be one with him. Now are you Jesus? No. But you are one with him in spirit as a christian, yes?

Thus the oneness was a oneness of accord, and not an ontological or existential oneness as an entity.

This verse elucidates and proves the point:

John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

Its abundantly clear that its a spiritual and not ontological or existential oneness. There. That's Bible proof.

^^^ Please be careful.

AIRDIG'S comment is someting i was going to bring up with you.

Beware the human tendency to deify spiritual leaders. It has happened all across the generations.

Thus the words of the apostles should be taken with reserve - especially because they contradict the words of Jesus himself.

The words of Jesus himself are clear on the subject -

The words of Jesus:



John 8:40: “, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.”



John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."



Mark 13:32:"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."



John 5:19: "Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does”



John 14:28: "You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."



John 20:17: "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”



Mark 10:18: “Do not call me good, only God is good.”



John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

^^^ With the foregoing statements, I would not be surprised if you are indeed Mavenbox, afterall.

For only that character do i know to make such outlandish and patently off-centre remarks.

viaro:
Until then, you've seen the last of viaro in this thread.

Ha ha. Escapist. ‘Fraid to be man enough to address your own appalling misconceptions?

Frankly statements such as you have made in this thread are generally reserved for persons requiring urgent attention from an expert in the neurological sciences.

Here are the very clear statements you have made once again –


1. You state that God lives in Heaven in a Physical Body

a. You stated that Jesus ascended into heaven with a physical body

b. You state that Jesus is God.

c. Thus inescapable conclusion – God is in heaven with a physical body.


2. You state that Spiritual realms do not exist

a. You state that physical things enter into spiritual realms bodily

b. If that is the case such realms are not immaterial anymore – as they contain material things

c. It follows that immaterial realms do not exist


3. You state that Jesus sacrifice was not necessary for man to defeat death

a. You state that All men require the sacrifice of Jesus to reach heaven

b. But you state that Elijah and Enoch reached and dwelt in heaven even before Jesus’ sacrifice

c. Thus, inescapably, they did not need the sacrifice

d. Thus the sacrifice is useless in redeeming man from death.


Son, you are a professional clown.

Further ontological rebuttals -

 1. If tangible things exist in intnagible realms - then such realms are no longer "intangible" or "immaterial" as material and tangible elements now exist therein. Thus there are no intangible realms according to Viaro. Thus spiritual heavens do not exist.

 2. If Jesus rose with his physical body and currently dwells in "heaven" with his physical body,  - and given that Jesus is God -

- - - - > Then GOD IS DWELLING IN HEAVEN WITH A PHYSICAL BODY.

I LAUGH IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

viaro:
That statement you have supposed would be from 1 Corinthians 15:50 - "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

The Kingdom of God is not to be confused for the simple subject about the possibility of physical bodies entering into heaven. As regards the latter, I have shown what Scripture declares - that Elijah went into HEAVEN (2 Kings 2:1 & 11); but at "the resurrection", that is when we find that 'the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom' (Daniel 7:22 cf. 12:2-3).

This is comical. Are you asserting your scripture to be contradictory?

1. Scripture asserts Elijah went to Heaven

2. Jesus asserts that NO MAN had entered heaven before he descended from Heaven.

So which is it schoolboy?

This is an ineluctable contradiction in your surmise.

At all events I am rather tired of reminding you: and you have never responded to this – that if indeed your vanishing Prophet never died: then this only represents another inescapable contradiction in your ancient book of fables, to wit –

1. The bible states that all men are tainted with sin and thus must die

2. It further states that Jesus’ sacrifice is the only means by which man can escape death

3. AND YET YOUR VANISHING PROPHET IS EXEMPTED FROM DEATH EVER BEFORE JESUS COMMENCES HIS PARADE IN GALILEE!

Another sickening and iron-cast contradiction in your surmise.

So which really is it schoolboy?

Tell us again, the fantastic bedside stories of your conflicting bible ? ? ?

The verse 1 Cor. 15:50 does not negate the basic point for which you raised this thread and invited me - the question of whether physical bodies enter into heaven.

O will you stop contradicting yourself and dribbling about? ? ? Of course that verse directly denies that physical bodies enter spiritual realms – which is anyhow in consonance with the most elementary commonsense.

That basic of all enquiries has been answered, and I had anticipated that you guys who argue to the contrary would not be able to oblige my request to find me a single verse that declares that Elijah or Enoch had suffered death. Do you care to do so now?

Are you losing your sense of direction, Viaro?

Did you hear me whimper a single word about the death of any of your vanishing prophets in this thread?

Slap! Focus young man!

The thread states clearly – Do Physical bodies rise and dwell in spiritual realms?

Focus on that – nobody here is discussing the death of your vanishing prophet.

For all I care he could be on Mars fully alive now – that is none of my business – so I am NOT required to prove his death to you as I did not say any such thing in this thread.

The spiritual realms are NOT beyond space and time - in your own worldview, maybe . . . but not in the Christian worldview. As far as 'time' (whatever and however one may define it), it affects such spiritual realms as 'heaven'. The question is not so much that it does, but rather which 'realm' of heaven would we be referring to?

Why don’t YOU tell us exactly which spiritual realm you are attempting to force H2O and other physical elements into?

Now get this straight, schoolboy – we live in a three dimensional spatial construct.

Realms which YOU admit are intangible, non-physical and immaterial cannot be compatible with such constructs as our three dimensional bodies.

This is elementary logic and I would have been at odds that you can not grasp this – save that I have become verily used to your rather bizarre assertions.

Can we imagine the ridicule of all commonsense entailed in forcing materialism into immaterialism. Perhaps since this is possible, we may carry your physical house and also one day transport it to an intangible realm – to heaven!

Son, you are not employed as a comedian, or a court jester, so please kindly quit these ridiculous assertions NOW before you destroy the work of a lifetime and are forced into a third reincarnation as “pilgrim.2.”(f)

And in what dimensional continuum are you making your assertion that is nothing more than a conjuring of your own limited thinking?

And since your own thinking is not limited I will expect that you will choose the choicest location for your physical house . . . not Long Island or Beverly Hills – but heaven! Go, ahead, apply for a plot of “land” in heaven and transport your physical dwellings there, since it is possible for physical things to enter the intangible.

I will be happy to pay you a physical visit in that intangible realm. While you are at it reserve in your physical refrigerator in the intangible realm for me some physical bottles of Guinness stout.

I am sure Elijah can arrange that.

What clownishness.

There is not a single verse showing that Elijah shed his physical body here on earth before entering the 'heaven' of which 2 Kings 2:1 & 11 speak; and I have asked you repeatedly to show me any verse to the contrary. Care to do so now?

No thanks. I did not talk about Elijah’s death so that is your kettle of fish.