₦airaland Forum

clefstone: The Gospel is basically a biography of Jesus' earthly life so i don't undastnd y u expect Mary to be referenced more often than she was even though she is most likely the source of a lot of information found in it. To enlighten u, we hv prayers to all d Saints, including our own Blessed Tansi and statues of all of them too. Do u even know that mary said in d bible, ''ALL generation shall call me blessed''?

So u do have prayer to all saints? Why dnt u type out the one for David? And if the Gospel are the biographies of Jesus Christ, y den r u using it to try prove ur Marian doctrine? And wen I asked y u dnt do d same for David, u simply ignore, even when this biographies makes David as much more important as compared to Mary

Yes I knw Mary said dat, and its in dese "biographies"... so what has dat got to do with the issue of catholics honouring/worshipping Mary? Have protestants been calling her "cursed"?

umar fantami: WE ARE DOING (salah)WHAT JESUS CAME WITH BUT YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT DOING IT AS IN

Nehemiah 8:6
And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.

ARE YOU CHRISTIANS. PRAYING LIKE JESUS SAID.

Muslims don come with their half baked reasoning...now these people in Nehemiah are described as "worshipped" with their faces on d ground. The verse never mentioned "prayer" (salah) but said worshipped. Worship can include singing or praises. To make it worse, when they are worshipping, did dey enchant d rubbish u muslims say while praying (salah)?

Now he said Jesus brought their kind of prayer (salah)...show me where Jesus ever said "allah" and where He talked abt muhammed in His prayers... and I dare u next time to call "allah" - Father, just as Jesus did in His prayer (salah).

dnt u muslims use ur brains? What's praying facing the ground has to do with prayin like muslims when d content of the prayer are greatly different and opposite?

BabaKc: true bro, or even somethins close. Can you imagine mtn N1000 monthly BIS comes with 6gig data cap, while other platform user gets only 100mb - 200mb for the same amount. Even if they're not giving us the thing they gave bb users because of the acclaimed data compression, why can't we get something like 1g - 1.5g for N1000. One day we nigerian youths will revolt against these mobile telecom companies.

are u kidding me? 1000NGN MTN BIS monthly for 6GB? U dey make me laff, call and ask dem again, its only 350MB, I do exhaust it before d end of its term. Though I do feel its more dan 350MB, but its considerably less dan 1GB and cosequently less dan 6GB

Atmosfear: So how about God's "choosen" people (israelites) who rejected god (Jesus). Where will they go? Nigeria?

Wow! Wat a question! Well its not new for Israel to reject God (Jesus) and they suffer the consequences, perhaps u have a proper undastndin of the OT.

For ur info, its not all "God's chosen" people (Israelites) who rejected God (Jesus)....go read abt "Messianic Jews"

Annaka: my dear dont answer him again,i wonder which prosperity church he attends

Yeah yeah! He shldnt answer me becos I have been showing the devilish doctrines u have been defending since...here again u assumed that I go to a "prosperity" church, talk abt being desperate! Dear I attend none of the so called churches u have before ur eyes! And to break it to u, Catholic church is the worst, perhaps u can search online for d crimes of ur so called priest and holy fathers! Stupid church promoting pedophilia!

alextayo: All you have been doing is just blatant denial of facts. So you even denied the Gospel all because you have serious hatred issues with the Catholic church. It is ridiculous that you could call a portion of the bible lies and fantasy (Luke 1: 46-55) and that shows how desperate you are to show your hatred towards the church. Even Prophet Isaiah in the coming of the Immanuel (Isaiah 7:13-14) prophesied: …Then he said, "Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well? "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Do you think Isaiah was referring to Deborah or probably the wife of your village Head. This is the only antidote I have for you.

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free........otherwise your case will be like that of a little child who is restless all his life just because he wants to put all the waters of the ocean into a hole he dug on the beach.....

See desperation! Now quote to us all dose verse u been throwing out and show us Mary in it and how d verses say we shld "honour" her! Show it to us! Seems u can't read, u talked about women been ridiculed or such in d OT...u mentioned some examples and den u try to make Mary an exception, but I mentioned Deborah and den u start frettin! U have no cure but talk rubbish just to defend ur man made doctrines that only lead to hell! The devil has cunningly deceived u through catholicism...show us where it is commanded to honour Mary na!

U mentioned the coming of "Immanuel".....what did God talked abt the Virgin birth? "Its a sign"......God ddnt say anythin abt it but just a sign of prophecy! also I explained dat Mary isn't conceived immaculately, she had parent who are sinners just like she was. Mary is a product of sexual procreation, Jesus isn't. That's why Jesus' nature is quite different from Mary's. Mary's is sinful nature, Jesus is Pure n Divine. What lies do u catholics wanna come up with again?

Again u seem to have a partial blindness.....I asked u why u dnt honour David, since Jesus Himself considers David even much more important that Mary!

alextayo: All you have been doing is just blatant denial of facts. So you even denied the Gospel all because you have serious hatred issues with the Catholic church. It is ridiculous that you could call a portion of the bible lies and fantasy (Luke 1: 46-55) and that shows how desperate you are to show your hatred towards the church. Even Prophet Isaiah in the coming of the Immanuel (Isaiah 7:13-14) prophesied: …Then he said, "Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well? "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Do you think Isaiah was referring to Deborah or probably the wife of your village Head. This is the only antidote I have for you.

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free........otherwise your case will be like that of a little child who is restless all his life just because he wants to put all the waters of the ocean into a hole he dug on the beach.....

See desperation! Now quote to us all dose verse u been throwing out and show us Mary in it and how d verses say we shld "honour" her! Show it to us! Seems u can't read, u talked about women been ridiculed or such in d OT...u mentioned some examples and den u try to make Mary an exception, but I mentioned Deborah and den u start frettin! U have no cure but talk rubbish just to defend ur man made doctrines that only lead to hell! The devil has cunningly deceived u through catholicism...show us where it is commanded to honour Mary na!

alextayo: I hope I will be the one to cure you of your terminal disease called ignorance and sheer denial of the role of Mary in your life.

Read Luke 1: 46 - 55 and ponder on the commentary below. If after all these, you are not cured, then you need a trip to the world beyond for total cure.

Mary is exemplary of the humble, faithful disciple. That a woman provides such an example is significant, since first-century culture often relegated women to a secondary status. Such examples exist in the Old Testament as well (Miriam in Ex 15:21; Hannah in 1 Sam 2:1-10; Deborah in Judge 5). One of the beauties of Luke's gospel about infancy of Jesus is that different sorts of people all experience joy at the arrival of Jesus. This reveals Jesus' universal appeal. Praise for God's Word to Mary (1:46-49)

Despite her humble position, she will be honored by all generations. Here is the reason for both her honor and her praise--God the Almighty has done great things on her behalf. Generations will see her as an example of a simple human touched by divine power and presence. But it is God who is unique, as her declaration of his holiness makes clear. He is the one "set apart" who is worthy of praise. For her, his name is wonderful because his character is true. Praise for God's Acts to All (1:50-53)

Well sorry if ur "antidote" made up for pure lies and fantasy doesn't cure my supposed ignorance! Seems u lost ur glasses on d question! Perhaps u shld answer the question. Again stop with these shameful exergesis of the Bible, why dnt u tell us about Deborah?.....and why Jesus never mentioned anythin abt honouring Mary at all either in d Gospel or through out the New Testament? Again why dnt u honour David as u honour Mary? Cos Jesus said in His own words that "I am the root and OFFSPRING of David"...I wonder why Jesus said dis! And in the OT, God says of David, that He will make Him the Highest of the Kings of the earth!!! Why dnt u honour David?

as a matter of fact, muslims reject Jesus, and accepting Jesus doesn't mean u have to become "Christian - the popular term around now" but u must become the Biblical "Christian - these are rare to come by"......yes a lot of the middle eastern part of the world have indeed end up on the wrong path, just as much as there are "Christians - the popular term around now" who have lost their way from "Biblical Christianity" too!

Annaka: u lyk askin dumb questions o,if u want 2 learn abt d church join them

Well its dumb becos u dnt hv an answer to it...get over ur filthy church history and tell us why!

free radical: You are funny guy. So in essence you are saying that Jesus Christ was not God when he came into this world. Well the catholic church teaches otherwise that he was true God and true man. Read the entire gospel together and you will see there are times where he spoke as God and other times he spoke as man. I think say na una protestants na e read bible how come una no see all this ones. Abi una eyes dey see only wetin una want make e see. Even me wey dey read only missal i sabi say scripturally you cannot separate the divinity fo Christ from his Humanity .

Then about the crap u spewed that mary is just ordinary i will also refer you to go backand read your bible again. Read the book of genesis chapter 3 and tell me who you think is 'the woman' whose offspring will crush the head of the serpent?

Now quote me saying Jesus wasn't God!


And again Genesis 3 doesn't solve ur problem, u r reading from ur Catholic mischevious translation! God never mentioned anythin about Mary in that verse but was saying Eve's seed will crush the serpent's head.

Gen 3:15

15  I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel."

Now the catholics have replaced the "he" in the verses with "She"......and u claim that u read ur Bible? How come u dnt knw dis difference? Seems am more catholic dan u!

Again I never said Jesus stopped being God...is dis how u mistranslate everytin?

clefstone: Catholics don't honour Mary alone but ALL the holy people who hv gone before us. Do u know that the Feast of Ss Peter and Paul is a Catholic holiday for example, if u attend Catholic school any whr in d world that day is a school free day. The above people u just mentioned; David, Elijah nd Elisha, r worth reverence but i'm telling you that they would rather be Mary if given d option. Who wouldn't? Remember tht Moses begged to see God. Compare tht with the woman who bore him, cared for him, lived with him and remained with him until his final hour.
As for whether she was ordinary, yes she was born an ordinary Jewish girl like millions before her nd after her. But wen the immaculate conception occured, she became the Mother of God. Now do u call that person ordinary?
As for assumptions, i wud lyk u to point out whr i hv assumed anytin here.

Again u have told us abt what u want the so called people to feel and not actually what they feel and who dey are. I have showed u dat even according to Jesus, David had a more special place than Mary, Jesus made no reference to Mary after His resurrection and even did less during His lifetime on earthly ministry! Yet u come wit these ur false allusion of David, and Elijah optin to be Mary bla bla! Now how many of these other that have "gone before us" do u have a prayer to and statues for in every Catholic church just like that of Mary?

Pls can u share d info on Etisalat on Android with me?

free radical: And you think a vessel smeared with sin can house our all holy God> Or you dnt tink Jesus is God.

seems dis ppl dnt knw why Jesus had no earthly
Father and Mary has earthly father, a very good
distinction here! Jesus was sinless cos He isn't d
product of the normal procreation of man! but He
had to have a body and be born of a woman
because He has to partake of our humanity, and
be unda d law dat condemns us to d flesh inorder
to free us from the curse. Mary on d other hand
was a sinner like u and I (not in d sense of
committing sin) and d reason for being a virgin at
d conception of Jesus only meant it is a sign for
Israel and nothing more special about it...and Mary being a Virgin is a sign!

And am amazed that u ddnt know that its cos of Jesus' mortality in human flesh that He was being able to be crucified. Had Mary being anythin special as u suggest, Jesus wdnt have been able to be crucified, He wud have been like Adam before he ate of the tree of good and evil...Jesus had to have a mortal body, hence the purpose of Mary. This is as opposed to ur erroneous thinkin of a "holy special" Mary able to contain God...perhaps u ddnt know dat Jesus emptied Himself by eclipsing His Glory, so as to fit in dis world. Read the Carmeni Christi Phillipians 2:6-7.

Jesus after resurrecting now has an immortal human body i.e A Glorifed Human (Jesus remained a with His human body after resurrection)...this is the perfection of the Human nature that Adam lost!

So cast aside ur silly theories all in d effort of supporting catholicism, and study ur Bible!

Goodluck to u

clefstone: don't rily undastnd d final part of this ur comment but i'l try nd reply u. First of all, wen Mary got wind of d wine situation, she immediately went to her son, Jesus. His reply was, 'woman, dont u know my time has not yet come? She ignored his response nd commanded d servants to do whatever Jesus tells them. This tells 2 important tins, 1. Mary knew Jesus could do sometin about the situation(unshaken belief in Christ). 2. She knew Jesus would not deny what she requested even if it means rearrangement of d divine plot as his time had not come.
Whether u lyk it or not, Mary is not ordinary. Do you ever imagine a woman pregnant with God. Thats what Mary was. Though she was born ordinary, by God's grace and by her co-operation with God, she was made the mother of God. She deserves all the reverence afterall she said it herself that all generation shall call her blessed

Again u let ur assumptions play right? Show us proof in d Bible where it is stated that "Mary isn't Ordinary"........what of Elijah? Enoch? according to ur standards too, are they ordinary? Why haven't u been honouring dem? I hv pointed so many times on this thread dat Jesus ddnt even consider Mary as important as David, so hv u been honouring David too?

Annaka: dumb fellow,dont u haf pics of ursef n ur luved ones?

U r always quick to insult ppl,

So are u d one who took that picture of Mary that u are honouring? Are u sure she (the one in d picture) isn't the Mother of one of ur early Popes?!!!

clefstone: yes, she needed Jesus to be saved and by her closeness to Christ; God, who called her Mother, we can be sure of her intercession like it happened in d wedding feast in Canaan.

Suddenly Jesus had become wicked and no more compassionate dat Mary had to be holdin his feet to get him to forgive sinners ryt?

Are u in ur sound mind?

What has the wedding at Cana got to do with this?

ddnt Jesus made it clear dat she wudnt have been needed if it was yet his time to be exposed

So now after fufilling the mission He delibrately took on Himself, He wud den waste it?

Do u catholics ever think?........is ur catholicism based on the Bible?

farem: Demon-Mary sold to them as real Mary has been satanically designed by few to be ignorantly worshipped by millions is referred to as the QUEEN OF HEAVEN. Hear the awful judgement of Jehovah:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/queen_of_heaven23.jpg


"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger." -Jeremiah 7:18

Notice that this verse ddnt say anything about "worshipping this queen of heaven".....but it provoked God to anger!.....

So what excuse do u Marian devotees have?

bryan arinze: "Catholics worship statues!" People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Ex. 20:4–5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex. 32:31).

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writers, make the blanket statement, "God has forbidden the use of images in worship" (281). Yet if people were to "search the scriptures" (cf. John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!



God Said To Make Them

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."



The Religious Uses of Images

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, they would be practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named "Nehushtan", the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).



What About Bowing?

Sometimes anti-Catholics cite Deuteronomy 5:9, where God said concerning idols, "You shall not bow down to them." Since many Catholics sometimes bow or kneel in front of statues of Jesus and the saints, anti-Catholics confuse the legitimate veneration of a sacred image with the sin of idolatry.

Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it.


The Answer Is No

Early in its history, Israel was forbidden to make any depictions of God because he had not revealed himself in a visible form. Given the pagan culture surrounding them, the Israelites might have been tempted to worship God in the form of an animal or some natural object (e.g., a bull or the sun).

But later God did reveal himself under visible forms, such as in Daniel 7:9: "As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was Ancient of Days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire." Protestants make depictions of the Father under this form when they do illustrations of Old Testament prophecies.

The Holy Spirit revealed himself under at least two visible forms—that of a dove, at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32), and as tongues of fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4). Protestants use these images when drawing or painting these biblical episodes and when they wear Holy Spirit lapel pins or place dove emblems on their cars.

But, more important, in the Incarnation of Christ his Son, God showed mankind an icon of himself. Paul said, "He is the image (Greek: ikon) of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Christ is the tangible, divine "icon" of the unseen, infinite God.

We read that when the magi were "going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold, frankincense, and myrrh" (Matt. 2:11). Though God did not reveal a form for himself on Mount Horeb, he did reveal one in the house in Bethlehem.

The bottom line is, when God made the New Covenant with us, he did reveal himself under a visible form in Jesus Christ. For that reason, we can make representations of God in Christ. Even Protestants use all sorts of religious images: Pictures of Jesus and other biblical persons appear on a myriad of Bibles, picture books, T-shirts, jewelry, bumper stickers, greeting cards, compact discs, and manger scenes. Christ is even symbolically represented through the Icthus or "fish emblem."

Common sense tells us that, since God has revealed himself in various images, most especially in the incarnate Jesus Christ, it’s not wrong for us to use images of these forms to deepen our knowledge and love of God. That’s why God revealed himself in these visible forms, and that’s why statues and pictures are made of them.

he who has ears let him hear. Religion and Christianity is a personal walk with God. Obviously from the above what Catholics do are not entirely foreign to the scriptures so the at very least all protestants should recognize that

Sorry, I just cudnt get through half of d rubbish in dis entire article, so but u seem to wanna compare the Ark, Moses bronze snake etc with "statues in catholic churches"......so wen did God commanded these ur saints statues to be built and what are they for specifically?....again why is it that u now compare use of those "old testament" statues and images with Christianity? Do u realise the difference at all btw the Old and New Testament (Covenant)?

And pls show us on whose authority u catholics honour Mary......?

If u say Angels adore her, den why don't u honour David since Jesus says He is the Son of David, while He was on earth and even in His Glory in heaven....

Rev 22:16

16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the OFFSPRING of David, the bright morning star."

Why dnt u honour David, since He seems more important to that Jesus had to say He is David's Son and Offspring

bryan arinze: "Catholics worship statues!" People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Ex. 20:4–5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex. 32:31).

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writers, make the blanket statement, "God has forbidden the use of images in worship" (281). Yet if people were to "search the scriptures" (cf. John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!



God Said To Make Them

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."



The Religious Uses of Images

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, they would be practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named "Nehushtan", the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).



What About Bowing?

Sometimes anti-Catholics cite Deuteronomy 5:9, where God said concerning idols, "You shall not bow down to them." Since many Catholics sometimes bow or kneel in front of statues of Jesus and the saints, anti-Catholics confuse the legitimate veneration of a sacred image with the sin of idolatry.

Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it.


The Answer Is No

Early in its history, Israel was forbidden to make any depictions of God because he had not revealed himself in a visible form. Given the pagan culture surrounding them, the Israelites might have been tempted to worship God in the form of an animal or some natural object (e.g., a bull or the sun).

But later God did reveal himself under visible forms, such as in Daniel 7:9: "As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was Ancient of Days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire." Protestants make depictions of the Father under this form when they do illustrations of Old Testament prophecies.

The Holy Spirit revealed himself under at least two visible forms—that of a dove, at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32), and as tongues of fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4). Protestants use these images when drawing or painting these biblical episodes and when they wear Holy Spirit lapel pins or place dove emblems on their cars.

But, more important, in the Incarnation of Christ his Son, God showed mankind an icon of himself. Paul said, "He is the image (Greek: ikon) of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Christ is the tangible, divine "icon" of the unseen, infinite God.

We read that when the magi were "going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold, frankincense, and myrrh" (Matt. 2:11). Though God did not reveal a form for himself on Mount Horeb, he did reveal one in the house in Bethlehem.

The bottom line is, when God made the New Covenant with us, he did reveal himself under a visible form in Jesus Christ. For that reason, we can make representations of God in Christ. Even Protestants use all sorts of religious images: Pictures of Jesus and other biblical persons appear on a myriad of Bibles, picture books, T-shirts, jewelry, bumper stickers, greeting cards, compact discs, and manger scenes. Christ is even symbolically represented through the Icthus or "fish emblem."

Common sense tells us that, since God has revealed himself in various images, most especially in the incarnate Jesus Christ, it’s not wrong for us to use images of these forms to deepen our knowledge and love of God. That’s why God revealed himself in these visible forms, and that’s why statues and pictures are made of them.

he who has ears let him hear. Religion and Christianity is a personal walk with God. Obviously from the above what Catholics do are not entirely foreign to the scriptures so the at very least all protestants should recognize that

Sorry, I just cudnt get through half of d rubbish in dis entire article, so but u seem to wanna compare the Ark, Moses bronze snake etc with "statues in catholic churches"......so wen did God commanded these ur saints statues to be built and what are they for specifically?....again why is it that u now compare use of those "old testament" statues and images with Christianity? Do u realise the difference at all btw the Old and New Testament (Covenant)?

And pls show us on whose authority u catholics honour Mary......?

If u say Angels adore her, den why don't u honour David since Jesus says He is the Son of David, while He was on earth and even in His Glory in heaven....

Rev 22:16

16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the OFFSPRING of David, the bright morning star."

Why dnt u honour David, since He seems more important to that Jesus had to say He is David's Son and Offspring

nora544: Read this than you will understand

https://www.nairaland.com/1543771/judge-not-lest-ye-judged

That is what the pastors for the new churches teach you not to jude but it is not right, they only want that there followers believe in all what they teach them.

Actually it is not what was taught to dem by their pastors but dis ppl refuse to learn.

jaymel4u: MY NAME IS JOHN, AVE BIN READING THIS THREAD AND AVE SEEN ENOUGH. CONCERNING THE TRINITY, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THREE IN ONE.
BEFORE WE CRUCIFY OURSELVES BOUT IT,I WILL URGE US TO DOWNLOAD DIS SCRIPTURE THE BOOK OF ENOCH.
PLS TRY TO DOWNLOAD IT SO WE CAN START FRM THERE.
THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN BY ENOCH HIMSELF AND WAS REMOVED DURING THE ORIGINAL COMPILATION OF THE BIBLE COS THE CATHOLICS BACK DEN, LETS NOT GO INTO HISTORY FELT THE BOOK WAS TOO HOLY COS IT CONTAINS THE REAL NAMES OF GOD.
IN THIS BOOK WE WILL UNDERSTAND WHO GOD REALLY IS AND WE WILL SEE THAT GOD CANNOT BE EXPLAIN WITH WORDS. HE IS SIMPLY I DONT EVEN KNOW THE ENGLISH TO USE.
PLS DOWNLOAD THE BOOK OF ENOCH. FOR ANYONE TO SAY GOD IS ALMIGHTY, JESUS IS ALMIGHTY AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALMIGHTY. SHOWS TOTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING WHO GOD IS, I MEAN TOTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING. I WILL GET BACK TO THIS WITH PROOF AM QUITE BUSY NAW.

a failed attempt to back up what he said...seems u dnt even know anythin abt the Trinity...u assumed its purely a Catholic work, and can u give a proof to all u have said so far? and dis ur so called "book of enoch" seems to be ignorant of the scriptures...for almost everybook of the Old Testament teaches d Triune Nature of God...does dis have anythin to do with the catholics?

chukwudi44: Bros abeg stop disgracing urself here and ask google.The bokks that make up today's bible was selected by the catholic chhurch at the synod of hippo in 393CE.This was ratified by the councils of carthage in 397 and 419 CE

Again its not correct!

[quote author=Omo_Tier1]The same church I go to get blessed and my life remains on an upward and forward only path. The truth is, even if some of you are taking to heaven, you would claim you saw devil there!

Go back and listen to Pastor Chris video on masturbation, and I am sure your understanding will be fruitful. All he explained was that masturbation as an act is not a sin. A man doe not sin because He masturbates, rather, a man sin because He goes against the Gods word.

That a man EATS a stolen bread does not make him a thief, rather that he STOLE the bread is what makes Him thief. Hopefully your understanding is simple,

Remember sin as defined in the bible is thus: whatsoever is not of faith, which workers by love is SIN.[/quote]Ofcos its a "SIN" and if a man eats a stolen bread while knowing its stolen even if he isn't the one who stole it, its also a SIN.

chukwudi44: The same bible that was compiled by te catholic church in the fourth century smh.

The catholic church is same as the roman catholic church.whether the word catholic means universal is immaterial

Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is the world's largest Christian church, with 1.2 billion

Uhm! Not quite right there! The Bible predates the Roman Catholic Church!

chukwudi44: Bros no mind those idiots.that was about a decade ago when I was still an undergraduate.one of the female members pestered my life till I agreed to attend a few meetings with them. Wetin I see there my eye no fit talk.They even held a beauty pageant in one of the sunday services I attended.

U must have enjoyed it oh! While sippin malt

chukwudi44: Is that not a teaching from your jerry curl masturbation teaching pastor? Is masturbation not allowed in your church? I have attended few prayer meetings of the Christ embassy church and I bet you that is the most carnal church in Nigeria.Their ladies are too worldly and wear the skimpiest of attires to church.You would not even though whether you are in a church or a night club

Wow! Tell me abt the meetings? Hw many girls have u caught so far?

chukwudi44: Is that not a teaching from your jerry curl masturbation teaching pastor? Is masturbation not allowed in your church? I have attended few prayer meetings of the Christ embassy church and I bet you that is the most carnal church in Nigeria.Their ladies are too worldly and wear the skimpiest of attires to church.You would not even though whether you are in a church or a night club

Wow! Tell me abt the meetings? Hw many girls have u caught so far?

Mrs Awesome: Typical Christian. Atheism is becoming more appealing as the days go by.

Do u have any other escape route? I haven't been convinced u have read the Bible for studyin it sake, only for criticism! Yet u stumble at it!
Infact atheism can be delicious to u, I cudnt careless...u have been evangelized, its left to u to see...or not

Mrs Awesome: Being irrational. You believe so much in the bible that you can't think outside the box...everything has to be explained with the bible even the origin of jets and computer age ...if it is not there then it is antichrist...you reasons with bible....let's do abstract thinking ...
How many Gods do you worship?
Can you categorically say that Catholics will all go to hell cos according to you they worship Mary?
Why do Christians threatens others with hell fires while professing that their God is a merciful father?
Do you know why Mahatma Gandhi said he likes Jesus but not his followers?
Will you go to heaven and what do you perceived heaven to be?.
Do you believe in the bible in It's entirety even the genocides, annihilations and all what not?
If you're told that everything that happened in the time of Jesus were not all in the bible ..will you accept?

If anyone can't think outside of the box here, its u, am nt d one who talks abt "bitheism or polytheism"...u are! and d reason u come to dis conclusion is because u wanna use ur human nature to explain God's. U actually can't picture a "God" with a nature u can't fully grasp! That's why u concluded with such earlier on! So stop rantin abt me believin d Bible, and I dnt care what Gandhi said, he meant nothin to me, if he likes let him hate Jesus and love his followers!

And again I accept the Bible wholly! from A-Z!
And u talking abt me accepting that not everythin that happened during the time of Jesus is in the Bible; this is not topic of debate. The Bible made it clear that it isn't exhaustive on the life of Jesus, so what ur point?

Catholic dogmas:
Binding Dogma to fiction and myths!
Fatima Aparitions!
A big hoax!

clans: its among the dogma teachings of the catholic church please try to look it up all our teachings are not based on the bible some cvome from this dogma.....By the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.[23]

"all our teachings
are not based on the bible some cvome from this
dogma....."

Exactly and dats why dis thread is being created! So why are we arguin? It is Man made Dogma, no more no less! So stop arguin in vain!

clans: And [the angel Gabriel] came to [Mary] and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God." (Luke 1:28-30). immaculate conception refers to the birth of mary while the virginal birth refers to that of Jesus. its among the 3 dogmas of the catholic church

Catholic Translation used.
True translation never said Mary was full of Grace