₦airaland Forum

ItsModella: awww...I see Onyeka Onwenu.

the woman is Over rated,her days are over.go and stay wit ur husband jor,mstwwwwww igbo kpwenu

Some said its real some say its fake,Wrestling(WWE) no doubt is acting,unlike boxing u see them bleeding,breaking jaws,and its even more intresting to watch.in wrestling,especially now adays they spend more time talking rather than fighting e.g
CM punk-i go beat u today
Bobby lashly- u no fit
CM PUNK- I am d wwf champ
Bobby-no worry na 2day i go break ur neck.

Bla bla bla and dey start ACTING oops fighting... guys whats ur take on dis
WRESTLINE OR BÖXING?

PurpleHouse: I feel this team lacks much bite... too much home based when there are great guys out there that can prove themselves anytime anyday...... enough of the experimenting with local dudes just coz you wanna promote 'em.......... nice team but I expected more..

NB: every attacks from gbosaa and co, back to sender.. lol

too much home base gave u Afcon di$ year,too much homebase gav egypt 3 Afcon in a row...stop spiting BullSHÍT...

Akiika: If Keshi is not taking it personal, Osaze Odemwinghi deserves to be in the line up. I have bought the Nigeria/Mexico friendly ticket, i hope i won't be the laughing stock amongst my latino friends at the office after the match. Keshi and Co. need to curb their ego and get us the best players for the national team. The Kenyan match was a disaster!

mstwww hw much b ticket?300 näira,.stop braging 4 us,we won Afcon witout osaze,d idiot is nt in form @west Brom,& u want him 2 b included? thunder Fire u...

ginajet: gbamm koor,, gbagaun nii!!!!! Una too talk.... talent without descipline like say una get d descipline hypocrites like una..... Na una type una go oga go dey send like house boys 4 office ...Rubbish

:0 :* even peageon english u no fit speak?

DJDOLA: Haruna should be on dat list and osaze..even if osaze is rude is playin skill is not rude

let Cr7 f-u-c-k up and see wat mourinho wil do to him,consistency,seriousness,disciplin is wat a gud team needs nt skills...

scobaba: What of michel majid?

Dat guy is my best African act.

He drives an Honda Halla

Ijele-igbo:
You have made a wise decision..... The keys to your 2 bedroom flat and your new brand official car will be handed over to you by the secretary!
Congratulations!!

Seriously?i no dey play o...

tunapawizzy: [size=22pt]PELE[/size]

The Greatest...

alienvirus: Had it been a muslim school that treated christians like that, heaven would have been let loose on Nairaland. See hypocrisy. Sorry bro. They paid you with the same coin.

Which normal christian boy go enta muslim university?abi na Quaran he wan go sell(thats if he is an Igbo man)

dabraska: Moderator, I'm very sorry but I didn't know where to put this.

It was like 3 weeks ago. I went visiting my friend in school who was yet to graduate. It was on a Sunday, so I decided to go visiting after the first service in church (Faith Tabernacle). The students were on a one-week break then and were supposed to resume on that day. My friend didn't go home because it was a one-week break and he stays at Abuja.

I stayed in his room and we gisted and caught up on old times. I even came with my laptop. When it was 4:30pm, I decided to go home. When we got out, there were lots of people at the gate. As usual, students were resuming. Lecturers were everywhere admitting students into the hall and searching their belongings. I walked out of the hall with my friend and I was about entering my car when I found out that I forgot my Laptop charger and one of my phones in his room. We hurriedly went back to get them, only to be stopped by a lecturer at the gate of the hall.

I explained everything to him and he said we couldn't enter the hall. So I told my friend to go get the laptop charger and my phone from his room and that I was going to wait for him. But they also didn't allow him go inside the hall. They claimed he had a beard and that they were not even sure he was a student. They asked for his I.D card and he explained that it was in his room and that he wasn't just resuming that day. We were surprised because we just walked past them when we were coming out of the hall. They said my friend should go and cut his beard. Because I was running late and don't like driving at night, I told my friend to enter my car and we went searching for a barbing salon. After 20 minutes of searching, we couldn't find one, obviously because it was a Sunday. So we went back to the school.

We explained to them that we couldn't find a barbing salon and they didn't want to hear what we had to say. So I suggested that my friend goes in go get my stuffs, gives me, and then comes out and they can continue from where they stopped because I was running late and I was going to Lagos. The lecturer replies me and goes "If you had long term memory, you would remember that I said that he couldn't enter the hall". I felt very insulted because I was loosing patience, I was disgusted by the way we were being treated and finally, because I am a graduate of that school. So I replied that he shouldn't talk to me in that manner and that I'm no longer a student of this school. He called me rude and called the security on me.

Before I knew it, six security men including the lecturer came and gathered me. All trying to sweep me to the ground. My friend, a very strong guy, tried holding me and prevented me from going to ground. Other lecturers came and started raining insults and even slaps on me. I was held like a thief. They radioed their Security HQ and those ones came with a black pickup. They bundled my friend and I, took my wallet, my belt and my phones and took me to their quarters. They stripped me to my boxer shorts and locked us up in their prison guard room. This was around 7pm. I was given a hint that we should just beg and agree with everything said there because they were bent on making us sleep in that prison till the next day.

We later begged and I even settled one of the security guys the sum of 5k to allow me leave the prison. My friend went over to the hall and got my stuffs and headed home at 8:30pm. It was a horrible experience.

What is this country turning into? They claim they are spiritually inclined and they asked and collected 5,000 from me. It's such a shame. I wonder how many people they must have treated this way. Even to an ex-student of the school. I am disappointed at Covenant University! Bunch of Hypocrites!

My mother once's told me,a bastard son will use a left hand to point his father's house..i went to a military skul,even thou there was bribery,i wil always tell anybody i meet that my skul is the BEST...

dabraska: Moderator, I'm very sorry but I didn't know where to put this.

It was like 3 weeks ago. I went visiting my friend in school who was yet to graduate. It was on a Sunday, so I decided to go visiting after the first service in church (Faith Tabernacle). The students were on a one-week break then and were supposed to resume on that day. My friend didn't go home because it was a one-week break and he stays at Abuja.

I stayed in his room and we gisted and caught up on old times. I even came with my laptop. When it was 4:30pm, I decided to go home. When we got out, there were lots of people at the gate. As usual, students were resuming. Lecturers were everywhere admitting students into the hall and searching their belongings. I walked out of the hall with my friend and I was about entering my car when I found out that I forgot my Laptop charger and one of my phones in his room. We hurriedly went back to get them, only to be stopped by a lecturer at the gate of the hall.

I explained everything to him and he said we couldn't enter the hall. So I told my friend to go get the laptop charger and my phone from his room and that I was going to wait for him. But they also didn't allow him go inside the hall. They claimed he had a beard and that they were not even sure he was a student. They asked for his I.D card and he explained that it was in his room and that he wasn't just resuming that day. We were surprised because we just walked past them when we were coming out of the hall. They said my friend should go and cut his beard. Because I was running late and don't like driving at night, I told my friend to enter my car and we went searching for a barbing salon. After 20 minutes of searching, we couldn't find one, obviously because it was a Sunday. So we went back to the school.

We explained to them that we couldn't find a barbing salon and they didn't want to hear what we had to say. So I suggested that my friend goes in go get my stuffs, gives me, and then comes out and they can continue from where they stopped because I was running late and I was going to Lagos. The lecturer replies me and goes "If you had long term memory, you would remember that I said that he couldn't enter the hall". I felt very insulted because I was loosing patience, I was disgusted by the way we were being treated and finally, because I am a graduate of that school. So I replied that he shouldn't talk to me in that manner and that I'm no longer a student of this school. He called me rude and called the security on me.

Before I knew it, six security men including the lecturer came and gathered me. All trying to sweep me to the ground. My friend, a very strong guy, tried holding me and prevented me from going to ground. Other lecturers came and started raining insults and even slaps on me. I was held like a thief. They radioed their Security HQ and those ones came with a black pickup. They bundled my friend and I, took my wallet, my belt and my phones and took me to their quarters. They stripped me to my boxer shorts and locked us up in their prison guard room. This was around 7pm. I was given a hint that we should just beg and agree with everything said there because they were bent on making us sleep in that prison till the next day.

We later begged and I even settled one of the security guys the sum of 5k to allow me leave the prison. My friend went over to the hall and got my stuffs and headed home at 8:30pm. It was a horrible experience.

What is this country turning into? They claim they are spiritually inclined and they asked and collected 5,000 from me. It's such a shame. I wonder how many people they must have treated this way. Even to an ex-student of the school. I am disappointed at Covenant University! Bunch of Hypocrites!

My mother once's told me,a bastard son will use a left hand to point his father's house..i went to a military skul,even thou there was bribery,i wil always tell anybody i meet that my skul is the BEST...

Casillas
(GK)
J.zanetti Terry cavalho Cole
(RB) (CB) (CB) (LB)

Sneijder makalele Lampard
(RM) (DM) (LM)

D.milito C.Rønäldø
(RW) Drogba (LW)
(CF)

He has worked with the very
best. Jose Mourinho has
coached some of Europe's
finest in the last decade,
starting with his great Porto
side which stunned the rest of the continent by winning the

Champions League in 2004. He
then guided Chelsea
agonisingly close to their holy
grail and dominated
domestically, led an all- conquering Inter outfit which
made history, and now a
Madrid XI aiming to reach a
third straight semi-final in the
game's premier club
competition. In order to advance to the last
four, Mourinho's men must
beat Galatasary, but standing
in their way are two of the
coach's finest former charges -
Didier Drogba and Wesley Sneijder. So as the pair set out
to upset the man who was
their mentor at Chelsea and
Inter, respectively, Goal.com picks a possible dream team
from the Portuguese's players
at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and
Madrid. It is impossible to pick such a
side without leaving out a
wealth of top talents, players
considered to be among the
world's finest. Yet the idea
was not to select the 11 best players per se, but the
greatest line-up of footballers
in their time spent under
Mourinho's guidance. And
after much deliberation, it
was decided that this team would play in a 4-3-3
formation, the system
favoured by the Portuguese
at both Porto and Chelsea, and
not his current 4-2-3-1. So here
goes...

Four men fight it out for the
starting spot in goal. Vitor Baia was an experienced head and a natural leader at Porto,
while Petr Cech proved a revelation at Chelsea and Julio Cesar stepped up at Inter as Mourinho won it all
with the Milanese outfit. But
the best of the bunch is Iker Casillas . Currently sidelined and with his route to the
Madrid first team potentially
blocked by the fine form of
emergency signing Diego Lopez , Casillas remains the best goalkeeper in the world
and, therefore, he is an
obvious choice in this side.

There are tough decisions to
make throughout the rest of
the team. Candidates for the
right-back role include Maicon , who was at his brilliant best under Mourinho
with his breathtaking
attacking play in the treble-
winning campaign of 2009-10,
his former Inter team-mate
and club legend Javier Zanetti and Madrid's Sergio Ramos . Here, Zanetti gets the nod due to his brilliant
performances up against
Lionel Messi in Inter's 2010
Champions League semi-final
with Barcelona (albeit on the
left), and his overall consistency on both flanks
during the Portuguese's two
successful seasons in Italy. Paulo Ferreira and Alvaro Arbeloa would probably not even make the squad. In central defence, John Terry and Ricardo Carvalho edge out a number of other
brilliant defenders, including Ramos , Pepe, Lucio , Walter Samuel and Marco Materazzi . Carvalho was a rock for Mourinho at Porto
and later formed an excellent
partnership with Terry at
Stamford Bridge. His first
season at Madrid was also
solid, although he is now in his twilight years and can no
longer compete for a first-
team place at the Santiago
Bernabeu. Meanwhile, if Raphael Varane continues his current progession, the
young Frenchman is likely to
become better than any of the
above, while Ramos can
consider himself unlucky to
miss out following his fine form since switching to the
centre in 2011-12. With Zanetti on the right, Ashley Cole starts at left- back in this team. The England
full-back upset Arsenal by
meeting Chelsea officials
publicly and then moving
controversially across the
capital, but went on to become perhaps the best left-
sided defender in the world
under Mourinho. He simply has
to be in this team. Marcelo is another alternative, but
Mourinho does not always
appear to trust the Brazilian
defensively. Fabio Coentrao and Christian Chivu make up the numbers. Claude Makelele is the logical choice as the defensive
midfielder. The former France
international was so effective
in his position ahead of the
defence at Chelsea that the
position was named after him. Although not gifted
technically, his tireless work-
rate, ball-winning abilities and
simple distribution to those
around him make him a must
in this side. In a dream Mourinho XI, the 'Makelele
role' could only be filled by
the man himself. So Sami Khedira , Thiago Motta and Costinha , the excellent defensive midfielders at
Madrid, Inter and Porto,
respectively, all miss out. Happy times | Drogba and Mourinho share a joke during their Chelsea days With Makelele dropping deep, Frank Lampard would provide the goals in midfield.
At Chelsea, Mourinho
described the England
midfielder as "the best in the
world" and considered
bringing him to Madrid early on in his tenure. Xabi Alonso is unfortunate to miss out
here, while Inter's Esteban Cambiasso and Porto's Maniche were other solid candidates, but Lampard's
greater goal rate - an aspect of
his game he improved
dramatically under Mourinho,
hitting 15, 19 and 20 in his
three full seasons with the Portuguese after managing
just eight the year before -
wins him a starting spot. In the playmaker position, the
options are sublime. Wesley Sneijder was so important for Inter in 2009-10, and
terribly unlucky to miss out
on the 2010 Ballon d'Or after
also leading Netherlands to the
World Cup final in South
Africa. The Dutchman has since faded and struggled with
injury, but under Mourinho
for those two terms at Inter,
he was the world's best in his
position. Deco employed a similar role at Porto and just
misses out, along with Mesut Ozil and Kaka , whose best years came before his
association with Madrid and
his current coach. And then there are the
forwards. Cristiano Ronaldo is included of course, having taken his game and his
goalscoring to new levels
under his compatriot. And the
Portuguese is joined in attack
by two more central strikers, Diego Milito and Didier Drogba . The Ivorian is the archetypal Mourinho centre-
forward and a player who
became synonymous with the
Portuguese's Chelsea side.
Milito played an astonishing
role in Inter's treble of 2009-10, scoring both goals in
the Champions League final
victory over Bayern Munich,
as well as netting crucial
strikes in the knockout
rounds, hitting the winner in the Coppa Italia and the goal
which clinched Serie A as well.
On the back of all of that,
Milito must be in this side. Arjen Robben and Joe Cole both miss out despite good
form at Chelsea, along with
the not-always-convincing
Madrid trio Karim Benzema , Gonzalo Higuain and Angel Di Maria , the great Zlatan Ibrahimovic in Mourinho's first year at Inter, Samuel Eto'o (used in a more sacrificial role by the
Portuguese in Italy, on the left
flank in his second season) and Luis Figo (whose association with the coach came right at
the end of a wonderful
playing career). What do you think or our XI
(below)? Too many Blues?
Not enough Madrid players?
Should Porto have more
representatives? Who should
be in it?

He has worked with the very
best. Jose Mourinho has
coached some of Europe's
finest in the last decade,
starting with his great Porto
side which stunned the rest of the continent by winning the

Champions League in 2004. He
then guided Chelsea
agonisingly close to their holy
grail and dominated
domestically, led an all- conquering Inter outfit which
made history, and now a
Madrid XI aiming to reach a
third straight semi-final in the
game's premier club
competition. In order to advance to the last
four, Mourinho's men must
beat Galatasary, but standing
in their way are two of the
coach's finest former charges -
Didier Drogba and Wesley Sneijder. So as the pair set out
to upset the man who was
their mentor at Chelsea and
Inter, respectively, Goal.com picks a possible dream team
from the Portuguese's players
at Porto, Chelsea, Inter and
Madrid. It is impossible to pick such a
side without leaving out a
wealth of top talents, players
considered to be among the
world's finest. Yet the idea
was not to select the 11 best players per se, but the
greatest line-up of footballers
in their time spent under
Mourinho's guidance. And
after much deliberation, it
was decided that this team would play in a 4-3-3
formation, the system
favoured by the Portuguese
at both Porto and Chelsea, and
not his current 4-2-3-1. So here
goes...

Four men fight it out for the
starting spot in goal. Vitor Baia was an experienced head and a natural leader at Porto,
while Petr Cech proved a revelation at Chelsea and Julio Cesar stepped up at Inter as Mourinho won it all
with the Milanese outfit. But
the best of the bunch is Iker Casillas . Currently sidelined and with his route to the
Madrid first team potentially
blocked by the fine form of
emergency signing Diego Lopez , Casillas remains the best goalkeeper in the world
and, therefore, he is an
obvious choice in this side.

There are tough decisions to
make throughout the rest of
the team. Candidates for the
right-back role include Maicon , who was at his brilliant best under Mourinho
with his breathtaking
attacking play in the treble-
winning campaign of 2009-10,
his former Inter team-mate
and club legend Javier Zanetti and Madrid's Sergio Ramos . Here, Zanetti gets the nod due to his brilliant
performances up against
Lionel Messi in Inter's 2010
Champions League semi-final
with Barcelona (albeit on the
left), and his overall consistency on both flanks
during the Portuguese's two
successful seasons in Italy. Paulo Ferreira and Alvaro Arbeloa would probably not even make the squad. In central defence, John Terry and Ricardo Carvalho edge out a number of other
brilliant defenders, including Ramos , Pepe, Lucio , Walter Samuel and Marco Materazzi . Carvalho was a rock for Mourinho at Porto
and later formed an excellent
partnership with Terry at
Stamford Bridge. His first
season at Madrid was also
solid, although he is now in his twilight years and can no
longer compete for a first-
team place at the Santiago
Bernabeu. Meanwhile, if Raphael Varane continues his current progession, the
young Frenchman is likely to
become better than any of the
above, while Ramos can
consider himself unlucky to
miss out following his fine form since switching to the
centre in 2011-12. With Zanetti on the right, Ashley Cole starts at left- back in this team. The England
full-back upset Arsenal by
meeting Chelsea officials
publicly and then moving
controversially across the
capital, but went on to become perhaps the best left-
sided defender in the world
under Mourinho. He simply has
to be in this team. Marcelo is another alternative, but
Mourinho does not always
appear to trust the Brazilian
defensively. Fabio Coentrao and Christian Chivu make up the numbers. Claude Makelele is the logical choice as the defensive
midfielder. The former France
international was so effective
in his position ahead of the
defence at Chelsea that the
position was named after him. Although not gifted
technically, his tireless work-
rate, ball-winning abilities and
simple distribution to those
around him make him a must
in this side. In a dream Mourinho XI, the 'Makelele
role' could only be filled by
the man himself. So Sami Khedira , Thiago Motta and Costinha , the excellent defensive midfielders at
Madrid, Inter and Porto,
respectively, all miss out. Happy times | Drogba and Mourinho share a joke during their Chelsea days With Makelele dropping deep, Frank Lampard would provide the goals in midfield.
At Chelsea, Mourinho
described the England
midfielder as "the best in the
world" and considered
bringing him to Madrid early on in his tenure. Xabi Alonso is unfortunate to miss out
here, while Inter's Esteban Cambiasso and Porto's Maniche were other solid candidates, but Lampard's
greater goal rate - an aspect of
his game he improved
dramatically under Mourinho,
hitting 15, 19 and 20 in his
three full seasons with the Portuguese after managing
just eight the year before -
wins him a starting spot. In the playmaker position, the
options are sublime. Wesley Sneijder was so important for Inter in 2009-10, and
terribly unlucky to miss out
on the 2010 Ballon d'Or after
also leading Netherlands to the
World Cup final in South
Africa. The Dutchman has since faded and struggled with
injury, but under Mourinho
for those two terms at Inter,
he was the world's best in his
position. Deco employed a similar role at Porto and just
misses out, along with Mesut Ozil and Kaka , whose best years came before his
association with Madrid and
his current coach. And then there are the
forwards. Cristiano Ronaldo is included of course, having taken his game and his
goalscoring to new levels
under his compatriot. And the
Portuguese is joined in attack
by two more central strikers, Diego Milito and Didier Drogba . The Ivorian is the archetypal Mourinho centre-
forward and a player who
became synonymous with the
Portuguese's Chelsea side.
Milito played an astonishing
role in Inter's treble of 2009-10, scoring both goals in
the Champions League final
victory over Bayern Munich,
as well as netting crucial
strikes in the knockout
rounds, hitting the winner in the Coppa Italia and the goal
which clinched Serie A as well.
On the back of all of that,
Milito must be in this side. Arjen Robben and Joe Cole both miss out despite good
form at Chelsea, along with
the not-always-convincing
Madrid trio Karim Benzema , Gonzalo Higuain and Angel Di Maria , the great Zlatan Ibrahimovic in Mourinho's first year at Inter, Samuel Eto'o (used in a more sacrificial role by the
Portuguese in Italy, on the left
flank in his second season) and Luis Figo (whose association with the coach came right at
the end of a wonderful
playing career). What do you think or our XI
(below)? Too many Blues?
Not enough Madrid players?
Should Porto have more
representatives? Who should
be in it?

Goodcare: i rest my case

dnt rest ur case,REST IN PEACE

Nuzo':
As much as Fally tried to redeem the song with his ever eccentric voice, the song failed utterly. The song was all over the place.

D'banj, I like you but you need to go back to drawing board and pick out what works for you.

I still don't believe that Don-J must be at the board with you for you to make a good music again.

c dis Mumu,abeg call me seun,we need to talk on d type of people dat register.

You guys settled down to snap 1 street 100 times,..tell SHREKomole dat using u wount make us vote him....

I was lying on my back and facing the moon at night,then i started imagining how it will be like to see the clouds open and then angels will blow their trumpet and one will shout "WORLD DON END Ooo" lol,thou am religious but every time i think about it,it doesnt look as if it will ever happen.in the bible it is writing" The son of man will come like the thief in the night"....
what do you think about World ending?

1.Kamakazi- robot boy
2.Dr Wasabi- chuck suki chucks
3.Doofenshmitz-Phineas and ferb
4.Jafar-Aladin
5-Aladeen- the dictator
6-dat guy in d mummy,mehn d guy freaks me alot

joanpinkie: most lavishing,and lovely . most women's drm. I love dat it really shows he doesnt care if he goes bankruptcy aftawards so long as he gav her d best ever.hmmm such love show coming frm 2baba, father of many. I want a man dat i will be d only queen in his palace no matter how poor ,i will help him to conguer empires. Niz pix. I nid more

Are u serious sister?

dulaman: So she married at the age of 18 and stil made it in life and people come and say to you dont rush marriage, Take your time, be independent. The koko is pray 2 get the right partner.. . .dats all

u see,my Oga in d top,dat all

yertyr: My grandparents are about to celebrate their 67th birthday. But if I post it here... Nobody raises an eyebrow.... Are there no nairalander who's a product of years of marriage? Why aren't we celebrating them? Just like the celebrity section... There shud be a section 4 nairalanders family or are we not celebs in our own little way?

Are u a learner? Ur grandparent are nt celebs,we talking people here u talking Nonsense.

Yoruba_Omoge: He couldnt have dressed better for his own mother's anniversary? smh

Looking like a short thuggish turtle

that ugly cloth is ur fathers life time savings,pension,gratuity..pray u dont die of POVERTYSIROSIS

My name is Clark kent,why am i not having supernatural power.?

As we all know, most parents in African countries especially Nigeria give children names with deep spiritual meanings e.g Oluwaseun, Chukwuemeka, Olusegun, Godswill, ThankGod etc cos they believe these names will impact positively or negatively on the child's life.

In Nigeria, people have taken it to the extent of even dropping or changing their names cos they have negative connotations and meanings

In the Western World, Parents give their kids names like Blue Ivy, Chair, Purple, Trouser, etc in short any thing that catches their fancy can be given as a name to their kids yet these people still end up being succesfull in life....

This raises the question. . .do names have an effect on a child's life?

Do you think really think name's meaning matter? Lets hear your views. . . .

well if i say i havent tried entering front page am lying.not only me,we have many NL members who also have tried,some with usefull information,good write ups(e.g moi) but thanks to Our MOD who find intrest in $hít like Tonto dikeh,a pic of so and so,e.t.c
To those who have been on the front page.pls share with us your Concept...

Regiblinkz: show us your face...*who gave you the right to call a fellow human ugly*

am Sorry Karen....

ask GooGLE

pro01: Emm, are you sure you are really "quoting" the professor?

Typing error.is Emm an english word?

Proffesor Jimmy Lawrence said these at a meeting with some heads of universities in Abuja..he said and i quote" Most nigerian gratuate find it difficult to get jobs because most of them (almost 70%) were given a Course countrary to what they want to study,and in doing so,they loose the zeal and charisma in that course and end up graduating as UNFULFIELD GRADUATE. If a student wants to study medicine,engineering,etc give him/her the opportunity and see if you will not reduce unemployment..What a man is good at,thats where is success lies"

NL do u agree with these?