₦airaland Forum

Debo. . .no mind am

all the girls are safe.

the ones you should watch out for are those ones that ask you to buy credit for them.
Those Jamo types.

In fact ask Islander she knows all about it. Hehehehehehehe

No mind Jackal jare. . .dey pretend say im be gentleman

His girls have names like Lamuzinda, Shanikwa, Shantay. . . .

4 Play:
@Doyin13

This one you dey talk S.London gals,are you talking of marriageable quality(in relation to this topic) or what my friend once called "all those small small girls wey I dey phock?"

my guy . . . .all join

Heheehehe. . .South is gritty, as is everywhere in London bruv

You are forgetting East. . .

North Londoners are just pretentious. . .like butter don't melt in their mouth

and i take South London gyal anyday. . .no messing about

na real do me i do you. . .god no go vex

Chacal

Come on sharrap there. . .No dey diss South London you hear. . .

And make you no dey lie for everybody. . .I know where you live

and there was a time i couldn't head there without a knife in my back pocket

The thing tire me man. . .I will be walking on some non-descript street
thinking how I will settle my latest debt crisis and I will get approached
by this ever-grinning Christian who thinks he(I never seem to get the shes'
has the solution to my life problems. . .

Warning: at such times the last person I want to see is a grinning face.

at such times I want the world to have thesame crisis like I do.

Wear a frown like me. . .that would be true empathy.


Tell me. . .Is my position reasonable

Sycophants always reveal themselves ooo.

Word to Bisi Olatilo

Wetin do Pasuma sef. . .wey una turn am to dirty.

Na my guy be that ooo.

Liga. . .Ligali. . .Paso dey. O hun to ba wuwon ni kan so.

stimulus:
@therationa,

I'd respect your choice to not respond; but what do I make of the response that followed that initial line?

After having perused your rejoinder, it seems to me that you're largely flawed. This is especially with regards to the meaning of atheism.

No one has to make atheists feel isolated in their respective societies; but it is quite another thing for the atheist to assume it is his prerogative to constantly castigate Christianity. I wouldn't be bothered by anyone choosing to not believe in anything; but the moment such a person seeks to express disaffection and derision on my convictions, it would be my responsibility to take him to task!

But surely, the battle against unbelief and unbelievers, peaceful(there is an oxymoron somewhere I know) in recent times, but violent in times past
goes to the heart of Christianity.

Sometimes I go to church and I feel assaulted and downright devilish for holding some, shall we say, liberal views.

And the law is so bad. . .

It is authorizing this brigand of criminals we call our Police oversight
over our mode of dressing.

Talk about statutory sanctioned rape

Dudes----------you lot need to replace Dudu. . .

He can't hack it.

But surely Kanye was not the big news on grammy night.

Amy Winehouse was. She not that d**khead deserves a thread.

debosky:
I sign on one condition JeSoul accepts to have a date with me

But seriously, enough of people making arguments/statements without fact. Let rational discourse return to the religion section.

Hehehehehe. . .So na here you pursue them reach. . . .

Nothing do you abeg. . .jaiye ori e

@Jesoul- - - -better date him o. . .he is pathetic enuff to don the Patriots jersey, visit Fenway. Be warned though
he might think Celtic pertains to the Celtic fringe of the British Isles

I know they is already one topic dealing with the African Religions
but I just wanted to paste this article which gives a point of view
sympathetic to the African Religions especially juxtaposed with Christianity
and Isla-m. . .


Faiths that preach tolerance


Religion has always been a source of conflict and, as Christianity and Islam face a fresh crisis, Wole Soyinka suggests a new hope for peace - the 'secular deity'

Saturday May 4, 2002
The Guardian

Were anyone sufficiently reckless as to make me secretary-general of the United Nations, I would have ensured that the year 2000 or 2001 was declared the Year of the Secular Deities. A blasphemous oxymoron? Not in the least. Let me simply state that I do not exaggerate when I say that the world has great need of the promotion of the secular gods. Those of us who hold on to a belief in the unity, indeed the indivisibility, of the human community - no matter how buffeted such a concept has been during the last century, especially by the anti-human excesses of ideology, religion and doctrines of separatism - must consider ourselves fortunate if we happen to be heirs to systems of beliefs that have survived those overweening themes that appear to contest the world among themselves.

Article continues
We can treat them all within a framework of binaries: communism and capitalism, Buddhism and Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity, Christianity and Islam, Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, the Crusade and the Jihad, fascism and democracy, the Judeo-Christian/Euramerican world and the Arab-Islamic, etc, etc, plus their extended families, aggressive offshoots and client relations. All these, to varying degrees, and despite their demonstrable and glaring errors of doctrine and conduct, continue to arrogate to themselves the monopoly of truth, perfection and/or dominance.

This mentality of binary organisation makes it easy to simplify the Other, to demonise it and focus on it as the sole obstacle to one's own survival. On the other hand, they do tacitly - and tactically - acknowledge it as equal contender for the stakes of hegemonic dominance. Tough luck on the other inhabitants of the real world - which happens to be a pluralistic one! They simply disappear through aversion of the eyes by the Super-Duo, conserving their energy for the final onslaught between the two monoliths.

As the African proverb goes, however, when two elephants fight, it is the grass beneath their feet that suffers. In fact, the grass simply vanishes! I believe that it is time to draw attention to the Invisible Faiths, especially those instructive faiths of the "secular" - that is, humanistic - temper, and to highlight the many subtle tactics that are utilised to render them invisible.

Against them has been ranged the devastating armoury of the "binary" conspiracy. Traverse human history at any moment from antiquity to the present; with negligible exceptions, you will encounter this pattern of collaboration between the most powerful contending systems. They say, in effect: let us join hands to take care of these minnows so that we can roam the ocean at will, not bothered by minor irritants - you take the west, we take the east. It is small consolation that, despite this hegemonic pattern and its historic rampages of destructiveness, a number of little-known systems of beliefs - in Asia, Africa, the Americas and Australasia - have survived and continue to thrive.

Our destination is one such world, that of the Yoruba. Nigeria, home to the Yoruba, offers us a contemporary model of the effect of binary conditioning, since it was within that nation, secular in its governance from the colonial period, that a state recently declared itself Moslem. The immediate effect has been to create an arena between two assertive faiths, thus sucking the anterior faiths - orisa, ancestor or nature worship, etc - deeper into invisibility.

Predictably, the arguments have gone back and forth: "The legal system being practised is based on Christian law, hence we must oppose it with ours," claims the Council of Imams and its surrogates. The other, the Christian Association of Nigeria, replies in kind, determined to defend its own established turf on similar grounds, both aided and abetted by the international media, which cannot refer to Nigeria except in such terms as the Moslem north and the Christian south. The neglected truth, however, is that this state, Zamfara, like many other parts of Nigeria, also consists of other religious faiths, those pre-Christian and pre-Islamic faiths that are so wishfully dismissed as vestigial and inconsequential paganism. The Jukums, the Tivs, the Bornos of northern Nigeria continue to follow (sometimes side by side with Islam or Christianity) the religions of their ancestors. So the moment a state opts to become a theocracy, no one bothers to ask: what are the pronouncements of existing traditional religions? What is the teaching of such religions on the imposition of a theocratic mandate on community, society or state? The answer is clear: abomination!

To address the world of the Yoruba, let us begin within human consciousness. That world repudiates the hegemonic tendency, as is demonstrable in its most fundamental aspect: the induction of a new living entity into the world and its dedication to the spiritual custody of unseen forces. A child is born. Quite early in its life, when the parents discern traces of personality, later to become known as character (iwa), this newcomer is taken to the babalawo , the priest of divination, who adds his tutored observations to the signs that have already been noted. The babalawo observes that it is a child of Osun, or of Sango, or of Obatala. It does not matter that neither parent is a follower of any such deity, or that no one in the entire household, or in the history of the family has ever been an initiate of this god. The child, it is accepted, brings his or her own ori , destiny, into the world. It is futile to attempt to change it or to impose a different one on him.

Yet even this allotment of the child's spiritual aura is not definitive, nor is it exclusive. Some other incidents in its life passage - a series of setbacks, a display of talent, creative or leadership precocity, or indeed some further revelation of earlier hidden traits such as a tendency towards clairvoyance, or simply the child's habit of enigmatic utterances - may lead the babalawo to conclude that a different guardian deity is indicated, or an additional one. Thus, a new deity is admitted into the household. There is no friction, no hostility. All gods, the Yoruba understand, are manifestations of universal phenomena of which humanity is also a part.

Ifa, the Yoruba's corpus of prognostic verses that interpret the future and prescribe options and directions for the seeker, is replete with odu (signs): those verses that are at once morality tales and historic vignettes filled with curative prescriptions. They narrate at the same time the experiences of both mortals and immortals for whom Ifa divined, advised, and who either chose to obey or ignore Ifa. The sceptics are neither penalised nor hounded by any supernatural forces. The narratives indicate that they simply go their way.

The deities have themselves been the subject of a large body of traditional drama, in the manner of, but owing nothing to, Greek classic drama: Oba Koso, Oba Waja, by Duro Ladipo, The Imprisonment of Obatala, by Obotunde Ijimere, Esu Elegbara, by Wale Ogunyemi, and numerous epic narratives and adventure tales. My own long poem Ogun Abibiman merely follows an ancient tradition, albeit one turned to a contemporary political use.

Ifa, like the orisa, does not proselytise. Ifa does not anathematise non-believers; on the contrary, there are verses in Ifa that warn against disrespect of other religions. Of course, Ifa is not without its own tendency towards a little self-promotion, and so we find that Ifa is also filled with narratives of the headstrong and cynics who disobey the injunctions of Ifa and thus fall deeper and deeper into misfortunes, until they return to the original path mapped out by Orunmila, the divination god of Ifa.

There is a crucial difference, however, in this process of cause and effect that differs from what I call the jealous religions. It is never Orunmila, or any agent of his, who is responsible for their misfortunes. No, it is their ori, destiny, the portion that they brought with them into the world, the very definition of their being, that Ifa merely diagnosed before leaving them to their own devices, to their own choices. The gods remain totally indifferent to who does or does not follow them or acknowledge their place in mortal decisions.

The Yoruba understanding of the nature of truth is echoed by the Vedic texts from yet another ancient world, the Indian, which declares: "Wise is he who recognises that Truth is One and one only, but wiser still the one who accepts that Truth is called by many names, and approached from myriad routes." The accommodative spirit of the Yoruba gods remains the eternal bequest to a world that is riven by the spirit of intolerance, xenophobia and suspicion.

The dominant religions of the world and their theologies as received up to the present day, have meant not the search for, or the love of, but the veneration and consolidation - at whatever cost, including torture and massacres - of propositions of truth, declared revelation. It has meant the manipulation of truth, the elevation of mere texts to dogma and absolutes, be those texts named scriptures or catechisms. This failure to see transmitted texts, with their all too human adumbrations, as no more than signposts, as parables that may lead the mind towards a deeper quarrying into the human condition, its contradictions and bouts of illumination, a re-examination of the phenomena of nature, of human history and human strivings, of the building of community - it is this failure that has led to the substitution of dogma for a living, dynamic spirituality. And this is where the Yoruba deities have an urgent and profound message to transmit to the rest of the world.

There is an urgency about this, as the world is increasingly being taken over by the most virulent manifestations of dogmatic allegiances. In the 12 months since the introduction of the theocratic state in Nigeria, at least 15,000 lives have been lost, often in the most ghoulish manner. But the orisa continue to insist: leave the gods to fight their own wars. This brief voyage into the world of the orisa, hopefully, may challenge a few ears and eyes into embarking on a serious, sobering critique of their world.

Before Islam or Christianity, before its enslavement at the hands of Arabs and Europeans, the African world evolved its own spiritual accommodation with the unknown, evolved its own socio-economic systems, its cohering systems of social relationships, and reproduced its own material existence within an integrated world-view. Those systems have affected both liturgy and the practice of alien religions, even to the extent of rendering them in some instances docile and domesticated. Thus, whenever the aggressive face of world religions is manifested, our recourse is primarily to the unextinguished virtues of our antecedent faiths, the loftiest of which will be found in such attitudes as tolerance. I refer, of course, to genuine tolerance, one that is demonstrable by the very histories of the deities - their travails, errors and acts of reparation, as recorded in their mythologies - and their adaptability to the dynamic changes of the world.

Orisa is the voice, the very embodiment of tolerance. And the tenets of Ifa are governed by a frank acknowledgement that the definition of truth is a goal constantly sought by humanity, that existence itself is a passage to ultimate truth, and that claimants to possession of the definitiveness of knowledge are, in fact, the greatest obstacles to its attainment. Acceptance of the elastic nature of knowledge remains Ifa's abiding virtue.

dayokanu:
Yar'Adua the new generation, free from corruption, a deep thinker, who is not easily swayed now in Minna for dinner.
Can you reconcile that?
Now you see the great Propaganda that OBJ fed you all don't be suprised

if Ribadu was used to bring down others yet Gave Yar' Adua a clean bill of health(corruption) though non performance in Katsina was hidden.

He saved money for Katsina when the people needed development. Now what is different in the way he ruled Katsina and the way he's ruling Nigeria

Honestly I don't know which is more egregious. . .somebody stealing the money, or keeping it under his bed in Aso Rock to prove wetin no dey in
eight years time. . .I hope the rat poisons work well in the Villa sha

@Millena

Even the most anti United fan, which I can be sometimes, will have to admit that Ronaldo is more than just average
and he has been the best player in the world the past couple of months.

A bad game does not change that.

Although I would still take Rooney if given the choice

I am not too sure if Rooney played in Utd's loss to West Ham though I strongly suspect
he didn't.

It would make it more than a coincidence that all Utd's losses have come with him off the Park.

He still is despite Ronaldo's halcyon season and Tevez's cameo role, United's best player.

Now if only he could just see a shrink about his mental issues.

bawomolo:
there's no drastic solution to 40yrs of ineffective rule. it would most likely be a long but fruitful process like china or japan.

I find the tale of Japan and China contrasting styles enroute to development.

China's renaissance since Xiaoping's openingof the economy has been drawn out, piecemeal
and littered with tragedies like Tianamen.

Japan's post war miracle on the other hand was focused, decisive and nothing short of revolutionary

Failed or devastated states need leaders that can inspire, excite and create belief. The power of their vision and the forcefulness of
their character negate the compromise that characterises Nigerian politics.

Germannig:
Enough of all these moronic noise making about Nigerian oil being owned by the Niger Delta. Imo and Abia produce substantial amounts of oil and Abia just recovered 52 oil wells previously ceded to Rivers. Moreover Shell recently discovered large cache of hydrocarbons in Abia. Large amounts of oil in Enugu and Anambra remains capped (reserved) by the FGN.

At any rate, Coal and oil palm from the East was also used to service Nigeria before oil was discovered.



Shell discovers large quantity of hydrocarbon in Abia
31 January, 2008 12:00:00 UDOKA AGWU
Font size:
The managing director/vice president (production) of (SPDC), Mutiu Sumonu made this known in Umuahia when he paid a courtesy visit to the state Governor Theodore A. Orji.
Sumonu said the purpose of his visit was to introduce himself as the new managing director of Shell and to establish good working relationship with Abia State government.
He said if his organisation commenced the prospecting of the hydrocarbon in the state, it would go a long way to boasting the internally generated revenue of the state.
The Shell boss solicited for the support and co-operation of the Abia government in harnessing the hydrocarbon. Responding, Orji thanked Sumonu and his team for their decision to visit the state government, one of the major stakeholders.
The governor praised Shell for the role it had been playing in the areas of education, health and social infrastructures, among others in its host communities.
Orji noted that apart from the hydrocarbons, his state was blessed with so many minerals. He urged Shell to explore into other areas in the state because Abia was investor friendly.

http://www.businessdayonline.com/national/3237.html

Scratching the bottom of the Pot eh. . .

debosky:
@ skyblue

that was a very reasoned and balanced comment.

Nigerians have indeed gone through a lot, but it would be a little naive or over-expectant in my view to instantly jump from a completely corrupt, insensitive, and distant government to the sort of ideal you are seeking here. What some of us are saying is not that Yar'adua is perfect, but given the overall SITUATION ON THE GROUND. . .not some idealistic views far removed from reality - Yar'adua's move is commendable.

It may be a non-issue in developed democracies, but we need these baby steps to reach the giant strides we desire. from not-being corrupt, we can begin to hold higher standards. Consider this: If Yar'adua keeps this non-corrupt stance till the end of his term (not that nothing else will be achieved, but lets focus on this for now) the next government will be expected to be clean, since this had become 'standard practice' under Yar'adua, thus compelling them to imbibe these same qualities and achieve greater feats.

I disagree that it does not have anything to do with his qualities as a president, because if nothing else, a president is supposed to be a National Role Model . His actions should set a good precedent for others to follow, even in the so called 'little things'. When we are concerned enough to pay attention to even the 'pocket money' expenditure as you put it, then we shall be able to build up to expect similar accountability with the larger funds expended.

Debo, baby steps will not get us anywhere. . . The longer the process the more we are likely to lapse back to our demented ways.

Considering how terrible things are in Nigeria, , ,Nothing short of a cataclysmic revolution is required, . . .quick, sharp and decisive.
Dithering or symbolic gestures of good sense in the form of reform will not work.

Which one be the Great Religion again. Na Isla m I wan write o

What is wrong with African Religions eh? Well nothing is intrinsically wrong with having an African Religion.
But the African Religions we had were flawed in one particular respect----------There lacked the capacity to evolve.

This made them vulnerable when the white man brought an alternative. All those who had suffered under the traditional
regime, revolted against the religions which did not favour them.

A similar scenario transpires in India where the DHALITS or untouchables have formed a potent political force on the political landscape.

Even within christianity, the traditional powers have been giving way to the more dynamic evangelical community.

As the poster mentioned, Brazil is the crucible where, especially in the State of Bahia, there has been a relationship, stormy at times, but durable
developed between the predominant Catholic faith and the inherited Yoruba religions.

It was with shame that i reacted when I heard a famous Brazilian musician mention that many of the cultural practices(musical) that can be found in
Brazil have long been discarded by the Yorubas themselves.

It was an indictment of the disregard which many indigenous African view their Traditional religions.

And as Soyinka observed in an Article for the British Guardian, there seems no better time for us to consult our ancestral faiths

This perilious times where we are threatened by a holocaust as Islam and Christianity do battle for global supremacy.

While it is not advisable to revive all of what obtained in our ancestral communities, i suggest we at least give a nod
to their underlying 'democratic' leanings as opposed to the autocratic disposition of Islam and Christianity. The myriad of deities
in this respect should be seen as a strength that foster variety and diversity, brings richness to life rather than the uniformity
of the inscriptu mumunus(thank you Fela) of the two Abrahamic religions.

Remember: Wise is he who searches for the path to the Truth, but wiser is he who acknowledges that there are myriad ways to
arrive at the Truth'

I will have to disagree with you about the Tories.

Can you name one Tory who is not fiscally conservative?

I guess its a matter of emphasis. And there has been a split from the Tories anyway.

Look at UKIP and the BNP.

And pertaining to the conservatism of Southern Blacks----------I do get your drift.
But at the same time you will not see many blacks spearheading anti abortion
or marriage legislative protests. It does not occupy high priority on their list of concerns.
Racial or quasi racial issues take that pride of place with blacks. Obama despite his prochoice
leanings kicked ass in the Deep South after all.

But the Republican party is fissured into two camps who live or die by social and conservative issues.
Their political decision making is coloured by their attitude either towards abortion or government spending.
And recently the latter has grown increasingly liberal while the social conservatives have grown more insular.

A split will as they say in financial circles release value, for the voters in this case.

The two party system in the US is by and large entrenched
but anywhere else the Republican party would have been split
with the fiscal and social conservatives going his or her own way.

As per the election, what is most annoying are the Republican party
candidates falling over each other to gain Reagan's endorsement
from the grave.

Reagan was before my time but in my opinion his reputation is undeserved
judging from his deeds.

If they play the Mavs, well it would have to be Amare I guess.

He is long enuff to trouble Dirk on the perimeter and i sure as hell
know Dirk can't take him off the dribble.

He is a real matchup problem for a lot of teams at the power forward position.

And Marion wanted out anyway so they had no choice in the matter.

4 Play:
Over the past 40 years,the Republicans have been running the White House in 28 of those years.If they didn't know what they were doing,the country would have gone down the pits wouldn't it?

almondjoy:
What do those sorry arses Republican have to discuss besides abortion and gay rights anyway? Stupid people!

Hehehehe. . . .Almondjoy I have got your back-------------Literally

Almondjoy For President I can think of worse places for a tryst than the Oval Office _{word to Clinton}

u ain't heard.

they have been coupling man

Gamine:
Let chacal be your worstest enemy!

whats that got to do with me

Watch ya self Mr man!

Forbered er sjalva!

on the contraire

it has a whole lot i reckon

saa bopa lafia dey atutupuyoyo. . .allahu akbar

Corrupt is not the correct adjective. Evil aptly describes it.

The most deplorable level of evil. . .

The shine sure has gone off the Diesel.

Two seasons ago GM's around the league would have bitten off both hands to grab Shaq.
Now everyone thinks his salary is bloated.

As for the Suns. . .Amare has been complaining about playing Centre. His preferred role is at powerforward
where he doesn't have to guard true centers who have been molesting him especially of late

Of coure everyone is skeptical because Diesel can barely stay healthy let alone keep up with the uptempo pace
of the suns.

I hope somehow it works without sacrificing the style of the Suns.

They have injected a lot of excitement into the League the past few seasons.