₦airaland Forum

Misdiagnosis “happens all the time,” said David Newman-Toker, who studies diagnostic errors and helped organize the recent international conference. “This is an enormous problem, the hidden part of the iceberg of medical errors that dwarfs” other kinds of mistakes, said Newman-Toker, an associate professor of neurology and otolaryngology at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. Studies repeatedly have found that diagnostic errors, which are more common in primary-care settings, typically result from flawed ways of thinking, sometimes coupled with negligence, and not because a disease
is rare or exotic.

source: www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/misdiagnosis-is-more-common-than-drug-errors-or-wrong-site-surgery/2013/05/03/5d71a374-9af4-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html[/quote]

A doctor here is beating his chest saying any doctor worth his onions will not need lab tests or procedures to make diagnosis. In saner climes where there is availability of medical devices and procedures to carry out tests there is still a high incidence of mis-diagnosis. Most doctors especially in primary/secondary institutions majorly come across malaria, typhoid cases and they automatically feel they can beat their chests and make conclusive diagnosis from symptoms like abdominal pain, periodic fevers, headache etc. The cases that are glaring that can't be handled are exported to india. Shouldn't the bulk of the demand of NMA be on financing, improving infrastructure? Personally I've been misdiagnosed of asthma, a friend of mine has remained childless as a result of complications from surgery. Why are doctors not talking about how to improve their practise?

A 2009 report funded by the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality found that 28 percent of 583 diagnostic mistakes reported anonymously by doctors were life- threatening or had resulted in death or permanent disability. A
meta-analysis published last year in the journal BMJ Quality & Safety found that fatal diagnostic errors in U.S. intensive care units appear to equal the 40,500 deaths that result each year from breast cancer. And a new study of 190 errors at a VA hospital system in Texas found that many errors involved
common diseases such as pneumonia and urinary tract infections; 87 percent had the potential for “considerable to severe harm” including “inevitable death.”

source: www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/misdiagnosis-is-more-common-than-drug-errors-or-wrong-site-surgery/2013/05/03/5d71a374-9af4-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html

LOL. This is supposed to be a patients opinion? Bleh! *modified* The word "Teamwork" is foreign to Nigerian MD's.. Pharmacists in hospital settings don't make independent decisions. For the MD's nobody is trying to take "your patients" from you. The idea is for all of you to work collectively in improving patient care and therapeutic outcome. Everyone will have the scope of their duties clearly stated to prevent encroaching. The pharmacist will advise you on drug therapy, measure drug serum concentrations, manage medication regimens in polypharmacy, give inputs to optimise use of medication, identify potential and adverse drug reactions, give suitable alternatives in contra indications. The pharmacist still ends up running this by you. Basically, you put heads together and at the end improved therapeutic outcome!. For those asking "why the need for consultant pharmacists?" Same reason you need specialists in different fields
of medicine. Same reason there are nurse
anaesthetist and nurse oncologists and a wide array
of other specialist nurses or you think pharmacy is
not diverse enough? People that say pharmacists can't be consultant and in essence mean pharmacists can't specialize are ignorant of how diverse pharmacy is. I see what NMA is doing
though. Its the same reason the Pharm. D
programme is being kicked against. MD's argue that Nigeria is not
ready for enhanced pharmaceutical input in the
hospitals or pharm. D programmes but somehow
Nigeria is ripe for every other thing that suits the MD's.

phantom: honest to God my brother,i would be the last person to hinder another mans progress but after JOHESU got that judgemnt from the NIC,it is on record that a group of pharmacists invaded one of the wards in one of the teaching hospitals in the east(i will get the name.for some reason,people are reluctant to call the name of the place) and went on a prescription cancelling spree.
one of them cancelled a drug from a list of drugs that a cardilogist had penned down for a man in heart failure.reason that particular drug had terrible side effects and should have been replaced with something else.
now,he cancelled a drug without seeing the physician involved.he didnt even know WHETHER IT WAS ACTUALLY BECAUSE OF THAT SIDE EFFECT THAT THE PHYSICIAN PRESCRIBED THAT DRUG.
okay even if you dont give a rats a** about the physician,what of the patient? there must be a reason why that patient is on that drug. talking about side effects,the pharmacist knows it by theory,but the physician sees that effect in action.thats why when pharmacists speak of side effects i laugh.
granted,the pharmacists know drugs,they know the effect of the drug on the body AND the effect of the body on the drug BUT DOCTORS ON THE OTHER HAND IN ADDITION TO KNOWING A LITTLE OF WHAT THE PHARMACISTS KNOW,KNOW THE EFFECT OF A DISEASE PROCESS ON THE BODY A.K.A PATHOPHYSIOLOGY AND THE BODY'S RESPONSE TO THAT DISEASE PROCESS.
IN EFFECT SINCE WE KNOW THE PATHWAYS OF A DISEASE PROCESS,WE ARE ADEQUATELY SUITED TO KNOW WHEN TO BRING IN DIFFERENT DRUGS TO ACT AT DIFFERENT LINKS IN THE CHAIN.

so in effect the pharmacist knows his drugs and their effects but the doctor knows HOW to use those drugs to achieve results including exploiting side effects... that is the koko!

I doubt the above is true. A pharmacist will never cancel a doctor's prescription without getting back to the doctor first and if he does and the doctor insists the most he will do is ask the doctor to counter-sign. if by any chance he did then it is unethical and he can be reported with appropriate actions taken but then the above is still a conjecture. Even if by any slim chance this is true you can't on that basis say that Nigeria isn't ripe for the pharmacists input. Its just like saying all doctors are irrelevant cuz of mis-diagnosis which is common anyways or iatrogenic conditions caused by a group of doctors. You think pharmacist don't know that drugs are used for their side effects? LOL. Truth is MD's undermine pharmacists. The pathophysiology of all disease conditions are also taught extensively among other things. Its the same way doctors know "little" about drugs that pharmacists know a "little" about anatomy, pathology etc. Thing now is let pharmacists be experts in their field.

dalhat14: And the pharmacist needs to be a consultant to do these? these are already being done by pharmacists where I work and we work perfectly together in tandem, so what are u talking about Mr man

Same reason you need specialists in different fields of medicine. Same reason there are nurse anaesthetist and nurse oncologists and a wide array of other specialist nurses or you think pharmacy is not diverse enough? I see what NMA is doing though. Its the same reason the Pharm. D programme is being kicked against. Nigeria is not ready for enhanced pharmaceutical input in the hospitals or pharm. D programmes but somehow Nigeria is ripe for every other thing that suits the MD's

phantom: if you believe the bolded,then you ll believe anything. nigeria is not ripe for the bolded. the bolded is the ideal thing to do but as at today,have you seen any pharmacist counsel the doctors on drug use,polypharmacy etc

Educate me sir on how Nigeria is not ready or do you just mean Nigerian doctors are not ready to allow this?

dalhat14: This kind of statement is the very reason the NMA is against the toga consultant being used, so the lab scientist, and pharmacists wants to take "INDEPENDENT" interdisciplinary decisions, this is what the NMA foresees happening, u very well know that's not what they are trained to do, when the lab man and pharmacist now has the license to independently treat patients, that's an invitation for chaos and the patient who should be our primary concern would be the worse hit, as it is now, there is an "array of professionals from various disciplines" that take decisions that ultimately lead to the patients well being, and they all use their "area of expertise as a foot stool for proper management and return the to optimum health" You do not need an ego driven toga "consultant" to do this. mind u, this doesn't mean u can't rise to the peak of your profession

Such ignorance. Expected though cos the word "Teamwork" is foreign to Nigerian MD's.. What independent decisions? Look. Nobody is trying to take "your patients" from you. The idea is for all of you to work collectively in improving patient care and therapeutic outcome. Everyone will have the scope of their duties clearly stated to prevent encroaching. The pharmacist will advise you on drug therapy, measure drug serum concentrations, manage medication regimens in polypharmacy, give inputs to optimise use of medication, identify potential and adverse drug reactions, give suitable alternatives in contra indications. The pharmacist still ends up running this by you. Basically, you put heads together and at the end improved therapeutic outcome!

Pennywise: It has been said no one truly has anything against pharmD. But the few mths u spent peeping into wards doesnt give u any advantage over Bpharm and certainly doesnt guarranttee u the Dr title. U have been lied to. U like the title so much u even add it to your username in an anonymous forum. U should be ashamed. I am sure the doctors here are perfectly able to defend themselves. They dont need me.

U have no business in the wards. U should be stripped of your esscort priviledges at ward rounds since u, a helper now want to be master. Doctora will have u chained to your cubicle while Bpharms do big things in the pharmaceutical world.

If u as a PharmD dare call yourself Dr to me I will have u stripped and shamed and no pharmacist is coming to ur rescue.

Lmao. A guy with your IQ should have a low voice too but Nooo you have no chill.. Err. The dr. in my name? Lol. U mean the Dre that stands for AnDREw?.. .. Are you always stupid or is this a special occasion? I'd ignore you henceforth..

deols: If the NUC come up to say pharmacists can inculcate whatever makes the pharmD better into b.pharm without attaching a 'Dr' tag, you will easily see that the clamour isn't about the need to provide better services but the need to becalled doctors.

I dont blame Nigerian Doctors on this one. Who wants their profession stained by mediocrity and unthoughtfulness.

Am I the only one who noticed the uncouth ways of the so -called pharmacists on this forum. It is a big shame. The likes of you should not ever get close to OUR patients.

Your "stellar" self is shoved so deep inside your ass that you can't see that the really uncouth and unmannered persons here are the so-called doctors. Making crappy generalisation. Smh.. Ya'll need to stop being insecure..

Pennywise: @Topic, policy makers should put the needs of the nation and her citizens first. Bogus academic programs cannot and should not be used as a tool to secure undeserved advantage. People's lives are involved.

NUC should take responsibility for its indecision. It should be seen in its pronouncements to be above the murky waters of unprofessional trade union politics.

There I was thinking I was talking to an intellectually sound person.

Pennywise: The resistance you are getting from Nigerians and the NUC even from the reverred Prof mentioned above is on account of the undeserved title. That is the unstated fact. PharmD can be declared min qualification requirement to practice pharmacy in Nigeria and it will be well received by all. But they cannot be regarded as doctors because they are not. They are not PHD pharmacy (those will be offended) and they are not doctors. Call them whatever. Architects who spend 6yrs in training are not called doctors why should pharmacy undergraduate program be so referred? Optometrists similarly went shopping around certain parts of the globe for justification and they came back and shot their program to 6yrs calling all optometry graduates doctors!! Its only a matter of time like I said bf physiotherapists, lad scientists and nurses follow suit.

Somebody within the NUC must have decided that this crazy obsession must stop. I doubt if the NMA is in anyway involved. If you have 100 doctors in this forum, you will have 100 different opinions. They are disorganized. It is wrong to think they masterminded this position of the NUC in anyway. People give them way too much credit than they are due.

You still don't get it. This isn't about title!! This is about improving patient outcome and pharmacy practice esp in hospitals because in hospitals, pharmaceutical practice is way too mechanical/routine. What is the whole fuss about the doctor title? Isn't there a clear distinction between a medical doctor/physician and a doctorate degree? Will u go ahead and say people that have doctorate degrees shouldn't be referred to as doctors cuz of exclusivity? is obtaining a doctorate degree not a matter of years or why do you make it look so unattainable? Or vet doctors don't carry the title? Are the pharmacists really trying to encroach or are the doctors just feeling threatened over there god complex? Why are we not looking at the bigger picture here.. The patients!.. In the US, to obtain an MB;BS or Pharm. D you go to pre-med/pharm for 2 - 4 years depending on wether you want a bachelor degree in addition to your MB;BS or Pharm D you then sit for the PCAT or MCAT which are similarly challenging nd if successful you proceed to med school/pharm school. At the end of the days you both have doctors.. Do you see members of the health care team in the US arguing about titles?.. In some parts of the US pharmacists are legally allowed to write prescriptions after certain courses have been obtained. So what really is the fuss? Will you feel better if the pharm. D program is run but graduants are not called doctors?

Pennywise: Sisi I am loving you right now. Thank you for the quote. The Prof worked hard to attain that status. He was a PHD and then a professor. He doesnt see how pharmD add value to pharmacy. How can a pharmacist abandon his drugs and go sit by a patient bedside. Do what might I ask? Give a superior opinion about the medications prescribed by a doctor and to which he has been properly advised?

It is really embarrassing when some people introduce themselves as Dr somebody and you find yourself asking 'Oh what field?' And he is telling you PharmD! What is our obsession with titles?

You still don't get it.. Pharmacist IN HOSPITALS want to be more involved in patient-care. This isn't about titles or salary/financial rewards because pharmacy as a profession is as financially rewarding as medicine for people who know their way. The drug business is VERY REWARDING.. This is about the patient/end-users nd maximising healthcare or are they not the reason why we are in the medical line? The ill-informed and ignorant might see it as encroaching but then in more civil climes it is called team work. Besides with the upgrade, i'm assuming the areas this professions cover will be clearly stated to avoid friction. There have been avoidable deaths/morbidity/adverse drug reactions that might have been prevented with other members of the health care team more directly-involved in patient care.. I personally am a victim of an adverse drug reaction that has changed my life in certain ways.. I don't get what the whole fuss is about. And I personally don't see much changing cuz the problem isn't just with doctors now but pharmacists also. Pharmacists are docile and are hardly ever united.. PCN,PSN as far as I'm concerned haven't done much to push the profession forward. Smh

I hit it first...!

*sigh

moscobabs: no bi dis guy featured in 'Get rich or die trial' with 50cent

You say?

nouveaux: With what is happening in Nigeria, I don't think I would want to work as a hospital rxist.
Community is good enough. What do you think?

What is happening in Nigeria?

On the pretext of religion? No. But then if she just isn't comfortable with it then you'll have to try and ease her into it.

God bless Nigeria...

Wow.. The state of insecurity is just alarming.. Smh

GEJ finally grows some balls..

SG3.. Gaming, Functionality, Study.
Bold6.. Surfing and heavy downloading.

s!s! afrika:
Thanx fr d advice@all.

ARV and Silver Colloids, which is effective against HIV?

LOL. Silver colloids? Where did you ever read that they were effective against HIV?.. For now, anti retrovirals are the most effective for managing HIV/AIDS..

flexshop: na my worst course for pharmacy when I was an underG.esp medicinal chemistry, I had to cram. So drink some hot coffee and cram up.hope it helps

Med chem was actually easy for me and it reflected in my scores, loved organic chemistry w/ a passion too even if I didn't always score high.. The rest, inorganic and physical..? Bleeeehh! Esp physical, those were tough times yo!.. You just had to do the needful..

Well I suppose peeps have said loads of stuff calling the guy names and you too. They've probably forgotten what it felt like to be 18 with the puppy love and all the silly promises, truth is words have more power than they should especially for the gullible..
I'm talking from experience now so listen up. First you gotta admit to yourself that you messed up real bad as in majorly screwed up. 2nd thing is you might hate this guy but I suppose he's in your age bracket also, yes? Now really how do you expect him to react? How do you think it feels for a "kid" to suddenly realise he's gonna have a kid?? First reaction is always denial!! No arguments here it is barely instinctive.. Don't get me wrong tho I'm not saying its right but it is what it is.. So you might hate him and you have every right to but really he's just trying to protect himself here..

Err.. Solution.. Its either one of two things you keep the baby and face the shame and you'll get over it BUT its gonna be hard! You' gonna hurt real bad! You gonna find no meaning to life especially during the pregnancy with the constant reminder that is your protruding tummy. You'd try and get back with him, you'd call, you'd cry to him. You'd just wanna feel a lil of that love he showed you but you won't get none of that.. You'd most likely turn into something else after.. You'd come out changed, worse, hardened but if you let all that go and make something of yourself he'll come back or at least he would want to.. Trust me if you have the means get away from it all, go school is some other country. live life and let him see how much its good w/o him. That's when the realisation starts and he'd sha want to be a part of the picture.. Major thing is just stay focused and make something of yo'self.. You also gotta think about ur baby, like how messed up and confused he/she's gonna get with having 2 mums(you and ur mom) and one dad(your father).. Growing up is pretty much gonna be different for the kid. You can picture it all in your head.
The other thing is the easy way.. Get rid off it and let him go but girls will always be girls if u do get rid of it you'd still go back and get bleeped again. You might start using protection but then you'll discover it don't feel the same and then keep going on... Incase u do tho they are diff kindsa contraceptive and u can always use the pill.. If u decide to go this direction you could always go to a hospital or have a nurse come to you.. An 8 week pregnancy will require a couple of injections of (censored) you'd bleed out and you'd be fine..
So its your choice.. Don't let anybody come here and tell you BS! Think long and hard and choose whatever u wanna.. Stay safe

Hehe

*double post*

hoochay: bro tnx for d info,,wud like to ask wah textbook did u use,cos i cant easily comprehend rangs n dale,hope u dont mind if u recomend one n wah strategy did u use back den in sch,am really having tough tym wt my pcl cos.tnx again

Err.. What I do is I understand the basics first and i browse thru textbooks (got loads of ebooks on rxcy) to get diagrams cuz pictures work well for me.. I usually make codes( there's a name for what its called, can't remember) like a name with each letter representing what u tryna commit to memory so if all 'em generic names get lost in yo head it can help u recall 'em. The most impt. thing tho is to study your lecturers cuz the lecture notes are usually sufficient for some lecturers you just gotta add loads of diagrams and short notes and you good.. You can't even use a textbook for Prof. Showunmi.. Nigga has got all the pharmacology from back in the days in his head and I prolly wasn't born when the textbooks he used were published.. You'd just end up seeing conflicting information on recent texts and what he's teaching you *sigh

Bludeville: Why so serious? That's my problem with my people. Always so serious, always so boring....abeg,I'm no role model,I'm no nurturer. I love being a pharmacist, but thats only a part of who I am...

So what exactly is your definition of interesting/stimulating?? I also have issues with pharmacist being socially awkward and all and personally I'm far from the "pharmacy cliche". But your previous post suggested you wanted us to dissect some serious shii.. Woman sef