₦airaland Forum

I appreciate the maturity with which this discuss is being pursued. I say a sincere prayer that God reveal his mind at some point to everyone who reads the thread.

And I could wish other discusses on subjects like law and grace, tithe, heaven and hell, etc, could be discussed with such civility.


Well done Deep and Anony.

In addition to the above, R B Thieme talks about the human being having both weakness and strength. And these two are from the flesh. Because of this it is easy for a legalist to think that their strength is virtue. Example, I do not steal. Not because I am a believer but even when I was not one I didn't steal.

Some of these legalist are conservative by nature: not giving to colourful dressing, disciplined by Nature; reserved, etc. They can think this is virtue and calling their followers to imitate them, they impose these things as law on their followers.

True Christian virtue is the working of God's Spirit in men's life. Example, I was a gangster rapper and could curse a lot. After conversion those languages left me. I am still surprised at this. Ofcourse I will be legalistic to impose my standard on others.

Growth is the work of God in a believer's life and what the church should be concerned with is whether believers are growing and not with what rules to keep or not to keep.

Wetin person no go hear for Nairaland

Very typical deeper life

When I served in Yola and stayed in d deeper life premises I attended the church and was deeper life all my NYSC

one day I was playing Fred Hammond. A pastor who was passing told me to put it off. I complied. By the end of service year, I had discarded all my Fred Hammond, Phil Driscoll, etc cassettes. To my dismay. after service I stopped going to the church but had lost my beloved music. I still can't find them to buy today.

Morale: The deeper life makes U conform to their standard. There is no freedom to think: U do as U are told.

It is apparent that John and his wife who have their own mind have been prevailed on bc the story of the wedding is spoiling the DLBC image. So the apology is to make them conform and restore the image

The implication is that the lady really did wear what they said she wore. It also means Kumuyi does not teach against their church tradition as they want us to believe.

It is a pity...

I consider myself a trinitarian but only bc that is the tradition I inherited. I have not come across any sound argument against the trinity and I am looking forward to where this thread leads.

The verses in the OP are very trinitarian and they seem to end the discuss but since its coming from an anti trinitarian he must have somethings up his sleeve

Pastor Kun a non trinitarian said in another thread something of this nature: I believe in the deity of Christ but do not believe Jesus is God. Is this statement compatible with logic?

Not believing Jesus 'Godship' does it deny one salvation?

I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE EXEGESIS AND DO PERMIT QUESTIONS FROM NOVICES LIKE US ON THIS MATTER

Thanks

Thanks Frosbel for the above. Very apt.

I agree also with Alwaystrue; although I find that Olaadegbu also agrees with her and so I must quickly point out an issue there

Ola has never hidden the fact that he is die-hard deeper life. Most people, including Prado the rapper know what deeper life stand on concerning dressing. The scripture quoted by the OP is the position of the deeper life church on dressing and not modesty as he claims on this thread. The deeper life takes the law of Moses in totality; unfortunately they leave so many other part of it undone.

The Christian position on anything, including dressing, is not bc Moses laws say so; it is bc the law of the Spirit of life do not permit it. So we resort to our motive and judging our heart on whatever action we take. Are we lead on this action? Is our heart condemning us? Is it of faith? That is the NT position.

It doesn't matter what U wear. What matters is are U wearing Him? He will determine for U what is appropriate.

[quote
author=Alfa Seltzer]I know I am right. You are a christian after all. One of the fundamental
christian characteristics is the abject lack of understanding they
exhibit due to their single mindedness.[/quote]Single mindedness can be a blessing; double mindedness or having an open mind can be trouble.

Nevertheless, this is a distraction. The thread was to give thanks for a deliverance and believe it or not God delivers.

[quote
author=Pastor Kun]You are just a pathological liar and all the allegations you stated
above are false or twisted. Instead of you to address issues and
honestly answer the questions you've been asked you keep running around
in circles like a headless chicken. Useless hypocrite [/quote]Thank you Kun for that apt response

And, Olaadegbu, may I show you the difference btw my 'vision' and yours. Mine is scripture: an intuitive understanding into God's word...' Yours are revelations with no biblical basis but dreams birth from foolish minds out to deceive the gullible

Did Bidam say: Jesus is coming for the churches and not for individuals (?) or I was reading double?

Thank God it is black and white. I had to re read it: Jesus is coming for churches and not individuals (!). And you call yourself a bible teacher?

Ok. Lets go to Revelation 2,3. These were messages tp churches to reform their doctrine and practices. Why? So people could be set omikunle the path of truth. There is no other way to read it... Jesus is coming for the church, Yes. Which church? Deeper life, etc? No, he is coming for a people, a people he has made his temple and his dwelling place. Jesus is coming for you and me, Bidam. Not for churches founded by men.

God has ordained churches for the perfection of the saint and not as a vehicle to go to heaven.

And, as for being like frosbel, if more Christians were like we would have greater effectiveness in Christ body.

I do not oppose the Lord's prayer but we cannot turn it into another catholic prayer means to salvation. that will be properstrous.

The sinner's prayer is the foundation of dictorial Xnity. It is the reason such converts must then be told what to do to be holy, how to pay their tithe, how to pray, when to go to church, when and who to marry, how to make heaven, how to... Etc. The list is un ending.

There is a reason God sent his Holy Spirit: 1. To convict sinners to repentance. 2. To lead that born again sinner on the new path to maturity.

I do not doubt the fact that God could use the sinner's prayer to save men but it is definitely not the only means. He may have used it in a time but God is not static, he has hundreds of other means of saving sinners. But the primary means remain by the Spirit and the place of the Holy Spirit must not be taken in the hearts of men.

When Christians have to be dictated to for whatever they do in Christendom, their actions is no longer Christian and such a church becomes a cult. That is the dilemma of many holiness churches today.

[quote
author=shdemidemi]Father, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I know
that I'm a sinner and cannot save myself, but Jesus died for me and
shed his blood that I might be saved. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord
and Saviour, forgive me all my sins, wash me with your blood and make
me whole. I forsake the devil, the world and all sinful habits. I
believe with my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus is my Lord.
Father I thank you because you have saved me in Jesus' name, amen.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That
confession does not save anyone in this age, I am sorry to say. The
condition have since moved from accept Jesus is Lord to believe He died,
He was buried and He resurrected. Please note

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, [b]and [/b]shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved[/quote][quote
author=shdemidemi]That
confession does not save anyone in this age, I am sorry to say. The
condition have since moved from accept Jesus is Lord to believe He died,
He was buried and He resurrected. Please note

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, [b]and [/b]shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved[/quote]One could not put it better than how U said It, demi

Now my word to Bidam, sinners prayers don't save anyone. It is faith that saves. Ephesian 2:8

The challenge with our times is easy believism and that is why bc they so easily 'receive Jesus', they can also easily 'loose their salvation'. Having eternal life is knowing God; John 17:3. When such understanding comes, faith follows, confession is made, salvation is sealed and such an individual can never loose it.

Read the biographies of Luther or Wesley. See how long it took them to come to a settled faith in Christ...TBC

[quote
author=shdemidemi]Father, I come to you in the name of Jesus. I know
that I'm a sinner and cannot save myself, but Jesus died for me and
shed his blood that I might be saved. I accept Jesus as my personal Lord
and Saviour, forgive me all my sins, wash me with your blood and make
me whole. I forsake the devil, the world and all sinful habits. I
believe with my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus is my Lord.
Father I thank you because you have saved me in Jesus' name, amen.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That
confession does not save anyone in this age, I am sorry to say. The
condition have since moved from accept Jesus is Lord to believe He died,
He was buried and He resurrected. Please note

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, [b]and [/b]shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved[/quote][quote
author=shdemidemi]That
confession does not save anyone in this age, I am sorry to say. The
condition have since moved from accept Jesus is Lord to believe He died,
He was buried and He resurrected. Please note

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, [b]and [/b]shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved[/quote]One could not put it better than how U said It, demi

Now my word to Bidam, sinners prayers don't save anyone. It is faith that saves. Ephesian 2:8

The challenge with our times is easy believism and that is why bc they so easily 'receive Jesus', they can also easily 'loose their salvation'. Having eternal life is knowing God; John 17:3. When such understanding comes, faith follows, confession is made, salvation is sealed and such an individual can never loose it.

Read the biographies of Luther or Wesley. See how long it took them to come to a settled faith in Christ...TBC

OLAADEGBU: image123, alexleo and Debeloved87 have addressed your rants here so take cue and learn from them.

So U need others to answer for U. Its understandable. Despite your love for English grammar, U find it hard to discuss intelligibly

So they answered me... Accepted.

Now, Let's hear your views on Ephesian 6 discussed above

And if U want to know, especially with ur love for extra biblical revelations, that scripture was God's word to me as I 'reported' U to Him in prayers yesterday. There was no way I could naturally have thought up those scriptures save for the fact that the Holy Spirit lay them on my heart

So, what saith thou... or U will run away again to dig up another revelation?

In 1999 Pastor Tunde Bakare had said that with the coming of Obasanjo three things will befall Nigeria: 1. Corruption will take on a new dimension. 2. Family life will go bad, with divorce rates reaching all time high. 3. The occult will begin to rule the Nigerian space.

It is the last point I want to point at. I was in my final year when, boys of the occult invaded OAU in 2000 and killed some boys among the leaders of their SUG, including one Africa. About that time, the ministry of T. B. Joshua took on a new dimension. And so on. The occult has translated to terrorism in the north and militancy in the south of Nigeria.

In the church, they have been seen through the prosperity gospel taken up new life. In the holiness churches, it has been a prevalence of vision and dreams and after life experiences that lend credence to their doctrines. God's word is explicit about this

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].


Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;


Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;


Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.


Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in these irit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

This is the source of Olaadegbu visions of hell. They are demonic manifestations of the occult out to deceive. These visions are from principalities and powers in the heavenly places. The bible talks about satan coming as an angel of light. The solution to these visions is not believing them but guarding ourselves against them by following Paul's admonition in Ephesians 6:

1. Be knowledgable of the occult. Be aware of principalities and power that come to deceive in the name of christ.

2. v.13: We are in evil days and the calling is to stand with the armor of God

3. v.14: Hold unto truth. The only truth is not about outward adornment or whatever we think we can do to "make heaven"; the truth of God's word is God calling on us to believe in the Jesus Christ (that brings our justification) and to walk by faith (that pleases God) and leads to maturity. We must then strap on the breastplate of God's righteousness, imputed by faith alone.

4. v.15: A readiness to preach to gospel to all. This is a calling on us. We must show what is right, while pointing out what is wrong too. The world is in need of the true gospel and not a gospel of bondage.

5. v.16: We need true doctrine that will build sound faith to withstand satan's feiry darts. Every one of these visions from Olaadegbu are satanic feiry darts; beware that they do not affect your devotion to the Lord. God has not called us to works; but to faith!

6. v.17: Helmet of salvation: the assurance of our salvation is based on Christ finished work. Sword of the Spirit: we need be close to God's word as ever, these are occultic times.

7.v.18: And let us not cease from praying

In none of this do we see a call to resort to visions and after life experiences to enhance our devotion to God.

Alwaystrue: @Candour, pay for what biko? Correction? At all.

@Image, Candour, Drummaboy, others I would like to understand what you mean by calling the name of the Lord in vain though. We have an All powerful name Jesus that knees bow at its mention that is why we should call that name in praise, worship, in times of need etc. Personally calling the name of either Jesus, God or Holy Spirit as a swear word or in situations where He won't be glorified is a no no.
Saying Oh dear is much better than saying Oh God at every exclamation. Swearing too isn't right as even the bible says so. I feel if many know how powerful the name of the Lord is we will respect it.

The bolded is what I also mean by calling the name of the Lord in vain. I agree with you as per the above. I speak for myself though... awaiting Candour and Images' position here.

^Though I know where U are driving @ but I agree with U, in all things we have learnt to give thanks

And it isn't just God who wins, we win also bc he leads us in triumph in every situation

[quote
author=OLAADEGBU]You should be thanking God by now for not allowing you to learn by
experience as the OP had encountered because you might not have the
chance to come back to tell the story. Some learn by observing the Word
of God while others learn by their experiences.

[/quote]You know, Olaadegbu, I thought you are a reasonable fellow but alas you are proving more and more to be what I suspect: a hypocrite!


What are we saying and what are U saying? If U were so concerned with how I survived electrocution, U could have said so and leave your 'advice' ON THAT THREAD and not derail ur own thread with what is not.

The issue is outward adornment, if U have forgotten, and here U are reminding us we are hell bound bc we don't dress deeper life but the question is: ur pastor's son's wife dressed like us; is she hell bound too? Or Kumuyi has forgotten to teach his family what he has for decades indoctrinated a whole church. 1TIMOTHY 3:4-5.

[quote
author=Alwaystrue]@Drummaboy. It's fine but please remove the thought
that only men might have been able to save you. God can use anyone.

By the way it is 'Electrocution' not 'Electricution'. [/quote]Thanks

I willed correct it immediately. I keep getting it mixed up.

@Candour, I believe alwaystrue will allow this free of charge

Thanks all

Image123: Its better for him to talk one on one with people that can actually read and reply him, than engage in unproductive gossips and assumptions.

The whole argument for outward adornment by the DLBC ended with that wedding. I tell you the truth, if a man is saved by how he dresses or not dress, then that gospel that purports such is not a gospel from Jesus. It is from demons and those promoting it are preaching doctrines of devils and any vision supporting it from the pit of hell.

I used to respect deeper lifers but I am becoming increasingly convinced that what that church running is a cult and not a church

OLAADEGBU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izz37bzBZxc

A prophet they say, has no honour at his home country. Here is a non African Christian who had an out of body experience and has come back with a message to the body of Christ. Her message touches on various aspects of the Christian life and how we can make amends. By the grace of God I'll make an effort to transcribe what she said on this tread, especially on our outward adornment which you can listen to as from 35:00 minutes into her testimony.

I hope you have sent the message to your pastor's son's wife whose recent dressing in their wedding last weekend is generating the hottest debate on NL.

And by the way, I do not think I have seen or heard anything from you on those threads. Are you dodging them or has that incident shown to you the hopelessness in the gospel you preach? My friend remove the log in your eye and stop worrying about the speck in other people's eyes. And I mean what I say: outward adornment is speck compared to more congent issues in the body of Christ

Alfa Seltzer: There is no god but only in your head. Satan as well, whom I choose to worship instead of the wicked one.

Christian block heads will never understand.

This is the reason why I have thought that the call to give atheist, satanist, agnostics and the likes, a forum of thier own is a welcome idea. I believe that is what led to the establishment of the Islamic forum under religion. They could simply call "Free Thinkers" forum.

Because does one explain issues to Alfa without upsetting him any further. We simply are not on the same page.

Thanks Alex

Sorry Alwaystrue for replying late. I actually mentioned women to show how difficult for anyone to save me not in anyway to disparage women. Thanks all the same.

Thank U Ayoku. I think God just set me up as the sacrificial lamb for the compound bc no one there may have had the sense to call on the name of the Lord. My wife is pregnant, our daughter is 18 months. The other houses were just women and children and non of the men are bible believing.

But I thank God it is well now. I am fine. No aches; no pain.

@Alfalfa

Well, we don't believe in the same God and so their is no basis for discussing that. The taste is in eating the pudding; I that went through it know the Lord sent his angel to deliver me...

But I have taken your advice and we have actually gotten an electrician to fix the problem and to check other electrical leakage

@Dicke, I do not understand your statement or question

^Thank you frosbel

I actually called Jesus. The point I was making was that the call was not natural, it was supernatural. The Holy Spirit enabled me to call Jesus, since I hardly do so naturally.

I felt fine afterwards. My medical doctor wife perused me with questions about my health but I said there was no problem. Since they were all women, I got a stick and ensured the gate was re-opened so no one else is shocked again. Then we called the electrician to fix the problem.

I only appreciated what I went through better when later in the evening while giving the testimony at my cell fellowship, I was reminded that we had actually lost people to simple electric shock while they held microphones.

I am alive and well to give this testimony and I give the glory to God who by the name of His holy Son Jesus saved me from untimely death this afternoon.

Pls rejoice with me. To God be the glory.

All I was hearing myself do was screaming on top of my voice. But something strange happened: I suddenly saw myself flung from the gate to the ground about two meters away. As I was landing I was hearing myself screaming 'JESUS...' Now, the reason why that was strange to me is that I detest it when people call the name of the Lord in vain and so as a rule I don't do it. I may say 'Father' or even 'Holy Spirit' but not Jesus. But somehow it seem to me that while I was screaming, the name Jesus came from my inner most being and I let it out of my mouth, and immediately the gate let me go.

I gathered myself up from the ground. My wife and neighbours where asking what happened. After about a minute I explained I had been electricuted.

It had rained for some four days running in Ibadan, the electric conduit powering the security light by the gate was filled with water and this afternoon the whole gate was electrified.

I give this testimony to the glory of God who alone can save and to the praise of the name of His Son, Jesus, by which all knees shall bow to.

My family and I arrived home from church this afternoon @ about 1pm. I had opened the gate, packed the car but on returning to shut the gate
back, I was literally electrocuted.

It happened in a space of about 4 seconds. There was I held unto the gate by electric power, with 240 volts running all over my body. I let out a heavy yell/growl that got the attention of everyone in the four flat building we reside in. They were all women and so naturally could not help and my wife could only get to me about half a minute after she heard me yell - I paint this picture to show that my surviving the ordeal was just by God's grace.

Now, as the electricity ran through me these were my thoughts: 'I have to get my hands of this metal gate... But it is so hard to do... Is this how men die... Men, will I be seeing Jesus soon..' Something of that nature.

Pygru: It seems you are #jobless
Oya go through this thread from page 1 to 10!
https://www.nairaland.com/1330381/pastor-kumuyis-son-ties-knot/10

So the father attended the wedding after all...' But Bizmhan was trying to make a case for the GS by saying he didn't approve of the lady's dressing and protested it by not attending.

So the more reason the senior Kumuyi should explain to us why one rule applies to some and does not apply to others?

^Bizmhan, its unfortunate U have taken up the job of being Kumuyi''s spokesman here but it will only clog up the matter. Those of U sympathetic to Kumuyi''s ministry should do what Olaadegbu did. Avoid this thread and keep shut bc that wedding brings to nought everything DLBC holds as doctrine.

Olaadegbu, the hell monger, comes here with videos after videos of people who go to hell wearing what that lady wore. What is the point? The wedding is leading everyone to hell!

That Kumuyi didn't attend his own son's wedding is a further indictment on him. Don't give me that 'he Just preach the word...' rubbish. The bible says a man that cannot control his home has no right leading the church, talkless of being GS.

The point I am making is that no one should say this is not an issue for controversy. IT IS! Bc that wedding shows that DLBC applies its rules selectively.

Moderator, Make this thread FRONT PAGE pls.

To say that mode of dressing, as the bride in the pix wore, is not an issue to the deeper life church is to be hypocritical. A core doctrine of DLBC is mode of dressing. 'Holiness inside and out...' is a popular slogan. So there must certainly be a controversy as the children of the founder, Kumuyi, who taught his followers this doctrines, has a case to answer as to why his own children are not keeping the laws he has successfully imposed on other people's children.

That Image 123 quote is hypocritical at best bc they will condemn these actions in others but justify their own when they are guilty. like d thread here where they are justifying not wearing trousers

As early as the mid eighties deeper life had designed clothes for their women to wear. Why is she not wearing them?

So they are just realizing that what U wear don't matter? Well we refuse that line of argument. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. The DLBC should not change the rules in the middle of the game.

So very well said. Can it be said any better? He who has ears to hear let him listen

^Word!