₦airaland Forum

Thanks Ayoku and ckkris for the contribution

@Ayoku, its nice to see U back to NL. I agree that doctrines of little importance need not be issues in Christ body but this one may lead to finding out others.

I actually was hoping I could find someone here who has a write up along those lines or anyone who'd seen the pamphlets I saw (that was over 10 yrs ago).

Jesus would not say somethings and do somethings else and these are the reasons those without use to say Christianity contradicts itself. Thank God, so far, we are agreed on the issue.

I am enjoying the religious forum more these days as I am finding light on thorny theological issues more in here than elsewhere (after the bible, ofcourse).

I am calling the house to help out with the above theses: Did Jesus spend Three days and three nights in the grave as he said he will?

I came across a pamphlet once (can't remember those who authored it) that proved that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The following Thursday was a high day and a Sabbath (that is confused with Saturday, today), that he remained in the grave until Saturday evening when he rose up. Then appeared to the disciples early Sunday morning.

The good Friday crucifixion does not add up. That will make him remaining in the grave for two nights and one day, if he is to be believed to rise up Sunday morning.

I buy the Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday resurrection. What do U think?

If we can answer this we may be able to uncover more truth lost to church dogmas.

Thanks in advance.

frosbel: The Book of OLAADEGBU, Chaper 1 , Vs 40.

You can say that again. And he obviously missing on this thread

OLAADEGBU: Watch this videoclip, it explains the church's position on what is the fundamental principles of the Kingdom life of faith.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK4V0kKtxqo

Doctrines of men or better still doctrines of Kumuyi which is equal to Self imposed worship and false humility

alexleo: Four charaacters were involved in that story and out of the four, three of them had their names mentioned. You cannot because one person's name was not mentioned conclude that it is a parable. Even in an exam, one over four is not a pass mark. In telling a real life stories, sometimes we don't even go into mentioning all the names involved. Some characters you just describe them by whatever they are known for. For example one can say- the mechanic, the trader, the director, the chairman, the lecturer, the student etc. And when you do that it doesn't change the reality of the story you are telling.
Again,. Lazarus had died, the rich man too and buried. What father Abraham turned down was the request for a dead man to rise and go and preach to the rich man's brethren. Did Abraham say its not possible to send a dead man to do that? No. He simply gave his reason that even if a dead man was sent,they will not listen to the dead if they can't listen to the prophets and is it not happening even in our time? Are people not rejecting the message of the reality of hell, both the ones being preached and the revelations?
Moreover, what God is showing these people is revelation though in our lay man's description we say they died and came back. Scientifically its described as a near-death experience, not death. Its all visions/revelations and the bible did not condemn visions. Visions are part of the medium through which God ministers to us. Even the prophets that father Abraham mentioned, they hear from God through visions/revelations etc. Vision/revelation is not ruled out in the bible. The only thing I agree is that the content of some of these testmonies are questionable yet there are others whose content are not questionable. You can't make as blanket statement classifying all the visions as demonic yet God is using some of them to minister to many people and they pray for salvation. Satan can NEVER be part of a story or testimony that will draw people to pray for the salvation of their souls. No.

Having given Frosbel his question to chew and answer, this one is for you, Alex: thank God you mentioned Near Death Experiences (NDEs).An individual came here and began talking about NDEs that are very different from the ones you and Olaadegbu post here. How non Christians experience after life events that is far from eternal torture but simply bliss.

https://www.nairaland.com/1317012/amazing-accounts-near-death-experiences
http://www.near-death.com/smith.html

How do we explain them in the light of the Lazarus story, Frosbel's claim that there is no eternal torment but a lake of fire destruction; and your own interpretation of the Lazarus story? Is there a way to harmonize the three and come to a conclusion close to that of Frosbel? That Jesus was relating a parable indeed to teach a lesson?

From these questions I am neither for Frosbel or Alexleo; I just would want us to understand ourselves. Thanks.

The chapter begins with thus

Luk 16:1 ¶ And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

There is no mention of a parable here

When the story of Lazaraus was to start in verse 19, it said:

Luk 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:


Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

In the same way the story of Lazarus in introduced and was not said to be a parable either.

Is there any evidence that this story related by Jesus did not really happen but was a mere parable to illustrate a point?
And if it is a parable is, what could we conclude was the point Jesus was trying to make?

Read more www.tithing101.com

frosbel: Not really, I saw a nice article they wrote and decided to post.

Btw , are you in Ibadan ? I went to UI , Ibadan is one of my preferred homes in Nigeria , really miss it

Thanks.

Yes, I live and work in Ibadan.

I hope you can visit us one of these days.

.

Well said Frosbel

I got in touch with this group that call themselves "Ecclesia" through a webpage you put up here on this forum. It happens they have a fellowship in Ibadan.

Do you know anything about them?

Hey Frosbel

I think this is small show. I remembered seeing a thread where a so called witch was demanding for your blood:
https://www.nairaland.com/807534/frosbel-let-us-decide-whether

What came out of it? NOthing! I guess this one too will amount to NOthing.

It was said of Stephen that those who debated him prior to his being stoned could not withstand the spirit in him. So what did they do? Stone him. So, Frosbel this is your own fair share of stoning. It is the way small minded folks and biblical illiterates, attack issues.

And for that Alexleo who is always so quick to label somebody a false this and false that, I hope you he realizes that he is the leading propagator of falsehood on this forum?

I do not agree with Frosbel on every point of doctrine, but that he has more bible knowledge on the tip of his fingers than all his persecutors put together have on their whole bodies.

Its a pity this thread has to run these number of pages discussing what is not an issue at all

Whether a Christian lady should wear trousers or use make up - its a disaster. It is biblical illiteracy at its maximum

Now I understand why these guys cannot comprehend the issue of where the tithe occupies in today's dispensation. If U can't understand ABC, how do comprehend complicated doctrinal issues.

All I see MostHigh; Olaadegbu, Alexeleo and those who support them say here is to parrot what they were taught in church. Not bc they understand the bible for themselves

Save your invective bc this thread is not worth a look again... If I was the moderator I would have ended the discuss long time ago...

Nonsense!

The above are sound scriptural reasons for not tithing today

Another evidence that we can consider are the fruits the tithe is bearing

1. A re-enactment of the priesthood order but now called Men of God today

2. Lazy pastorate: men abandoning legitimate career and work to enter 'ministry' that must be sustained by tithe

3. The return of the cathedrals and large church organizations that must be sustained by tithes to the detriment of other cogent issues, like looking after the weak

4. Ostentatious lifestyle of church leaders, something that is totally foreign to the NT

5. The prosperity gospel: The gospel of blessing. Seeking God hand and not his face.

6. Diminishing the gospel of grace and reducing the power of that gospel in men heart

7. Leading to nations sold to lies and falsehood; with prophets leading a nation astray.

8. Tithe blinds a people to true giving and legalize a legal system

9. Return to legalism

10. Fall from grace

You can make your own list

Neo-JUDAIZERS un-redeemable. Ever learning and not able to come to the knowledge of the truth

*Un-follows thread*

OLAADEGBU: If you wouldn't watch or couldn't watch the videoclips and link I posted then address my response to seggegs before you start raising your own objections.

Doctrines according to videos. Answer the man's objections raised from the bible and stop this watch this; watch that. Let us base our discuss on the more sure word of prophecy: the bible and not day dreamings

Image123:

Tithes and offering were given before the law. This is a fact you cannot remove from the Word.

Circumcision was also giving before the law; with a direct commandement from God to Abraham (unlike tithe) in Genesis 17, why did the Apostle Paul labor hard to show that it has gone with the law

Tithes and offering are under the giving blanket.

What blanket? Who said it was cold? That something is giving does not mean that it is acceptable to God. Check your bible, motive and scriptural standards determine if what we do in the NT is acceptable to God.

There is still no scripture or apostle that says we should not give tithes and offerings.

There is still no scripture by the apostles that say we give tithes. Period. But there are legion of scriptures that shows that the Mosaic tithes has been abolished along with the levithical rights, unless, ofcourse, you refuse to see them.

You are on your own.

One with God is majority: I am content that way

Image123: Tithes and offering were given before the law. This is a fact you cannot remove from the Word.
Tithes and offering are under the giving blanket.
There is still no scripture or apostle that says we should not give tithes and offerings.
You are on your own.

This is not the story... It is another story

shdemidemi: Does that make this particular statement of false?

I know know O

Whatever the guys views of fornication, the statement is perfect. See how he cannot distinguish the messenger from the message

Bidam:

What is your yard stick for measuring perfection?

Holiness.

FAILURE!!!!!!!

Holiness is NOT a measure of perfection. It may be YOURS but it is not the bible's. There is such a things as the righteosness of God, perfect righteosness, that can only be obtained by imputation, by faith.

No wonder you bandy the law of Moses around and potray some filthy thing called holiness. Hebrew 12:14 - without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Read it well, it is not saying holiness will earn God's kingdom; it is saying the showing of true perfection, obtained by faith, is holy living. No more, no less...

Don't even fool yourself... why are my even wasting my time with you, you kuku will not hear!

Pastor Kun: Story!

I would like to hear the story. Because I cannot understand why Bidam believes tithes is of the law but still says it remains a "pricinple"; what principle? Like, same way the law of Moses say do not kill; and the law of God in our hearts says do not Kill, because it would not be compatible with love. Now how does the law of Moses which command tithing to Levites that had no inheritance, and needed it for their sustenance equal pay tithe in church so that ministers can have money to run church? When the NT has shown more than enough scriptures on how church must be financed? And when these discourses where going on in 2Corinthians 7-9; 1Corinthians 9; all the pastoral epistles; Paul's admonition in Acts 20 that it is more blessed to give than to receive; and Hebrew 13 that says God is pleased with sacrificial giving (that about all I can remember in NT giving); how do all of them equate to Tithing today? Even the Hebrew 7 scripture that discussed tithes in the NT was simply talking about the supremacy of Jesus' priesthood to that of Aaron, that was sustained with tithe. And since Aaron's priesthood was abolished, the means of sustaining it, the tithe, is done away with also. There is no other way to interprete that scripture without reading our prejudices into it. And, when the NT teaches doctrine or practise, it is explicit about it; it does not teach something and then expect us to see it in another light. Those who choose to get revelations from Hebrew 7 to tithe are finding revelations to support their greed and fraud.

So, Bidam, we await your story...

The gospel is everything.

Although this thread is directed at Shdemidemi, I wish to add to it and ofcourse, my views are subject to censore.

Before I get there, let's understand why the gospel must be understood and truly proclaimed. It is because there is the danger of another gospel being proclaimed in its place.

Romans 1:16,17

Rom 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

shows us that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for the Jews first and then for the gentiles. In that liberating scripture, that formed the foundation of the 16th century Reformation. We have:

1. Salvation. In the gospel there is salvation both from the ills of this life and the one to come - eternal damanation. Then in the gospel we have the power of God. This power is sufficient because it is of God. That power is able to keep safe. Hebrew talks about that power saving us to the utermost. Jesus in Johnt 6 talks about that power being able to draw men to God and being able to keep them to the end. Peter talks about Christians being "kept by the power of God". That power is able to offer eternal security to anyone who believes the gospel. It is demeaning to Jesus who saves to say that those he saved can loose their salvation.

2. Jew and Gentiles: The gospel was revealed to the Jews first. But it was later extended to the gentiles. The problem with this so called extension is the fact that the gospel has been plaqued by the influence of Judaism from the beginning. So that despite God's vision to Peter to show that all that the law considered defiled has become undefiled in the gospel via the blood of Jesus, people confused the law with the gospel of grace, even up to this time and on NL also. And so we have the challenge of those who pay tithe, keep sabbath and cover their hair in church, all in a bid to keep up with the law, although admitting to be under grace. The gospel came to the Jews first, then the gentiles. The gospel is not a reformation of Judaism, it is the gospel - good news from God, sufficient in itself. It is not new wine in old wine skin, it is new wine in new wine skin; that is the only way the gospel can be properly preserved.

3. Righteousness by Faith In the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed and inputed to those who believe. It is God's rightteousness and not ours. It is by faith and not by works; it is by grace that it might not be by works. The benefits of the gospel are profound but will come to us only by faith. The Just will live by faith; and will continue from faith to faith. Unfortunately the kind of righteousness many advocate are men's righteousness, that is filthy before God. God's standard of righteousness is different: In it men may see God's man as a liar or a war-monger, Abraham, God sees him as a man of faith, a friend of God, etc. In men's righteousness, we think a man is a murderer or an adulterer, God sees him as a man after his own heart - David. Thus is the righteousness of God seen in men. It is not what a man can glory in; it is what only God can testify of. We await this righteousness also by faith and when it comes we cannot glory in it because we will forever see ourselves as debtors to God's manifold grace shown forth to filthy sinners like ourselves.

That in a nutshell, folks is the gospel and all that the gospel encompasses.

Cheers.

okeyxyz: You do realize that the enlarged texts refers to the law. It is by following the Laws of Moses that we become sinners, Making the law the power of sin.

So Jesus's death(ie: death of the law; because he became the personification of this law) sets us free, completely(not partially), from the Laws of Moses; including all it's commandments and definitions. We are now free to partake and use all things that the Law barred us from. GBAM!!!

I second this

Image123: Thanks voltron, i enjoyed the drumming around. You have earned three points. Congrats.

You are welcome.

Thank U Seun for sharing your position with us on religion. Like your Dad, many of us will not be able to answer your questions too... The mind that birth nairaland certainly must be offered something greater than mere faith and religion to practise as an object of devotion.

That is why I believe atheists are closer to the true God than many religious people.

I know those who espouse the theory that religion is the worst thing that has happened to humanity and that it is the creation of Satan. I agree with them.

Nevertheless I am religious. Why? Because the definition of the faith I practise will be termed religious in the secular dictionary, although I do not believe I am religious in that sense.

I believe in Jesus Christ. The revealed person of the tri-une God. Because he is revealed I can only trust that He reveals himself to Seun and others one way or the other.

Until then, the atheists will win every debate with religious people. That is why I don't try them...

lol!!!

I just read this after ur rferalll from that thread where Aribisala was castigation Paul

Like U rightly pointed out: his error is quoting the Arose out of context to justify a lame theses.

Well done.

[quote
author=In4matic]But, that does not answer the questions posed. Lets not
forget femi came up with undisputable facts upon facts.

And after seeking the opinions of bible scholars the conclusion reached
was that Paul's writings were letters of advice concerning specific
issues in particular locations. Not to be misconstrued as gospel. Do you
agree sir?[/quote]That article posed no question. It is the opinion of a demented mind. Paul's letters were not mere advice, they are ETERNAL TRUTHS!

Aribisala has made no point here. His theses on 'Any Pastor that Collects Tithes Is A Thief and A Robber' may be excellent but the above is pure nonsense

To deny Paul is to deny that scripture is Inspired by God and that is to deny Christ, God's Word...

Something happened to me yesterday which was a personal confirmation that God Himself has been leading on the path on tithing. Farmafric, is a NLander. I just discovered he is my long time friend from our University days. He called to tell me he had been reading my post on tithing and that he not only agrees with me but had stopped tithing too.

Now this friend of mine is a farmer. He had practised overseas and while there he not only tithed, he gave firstfruits - all to no business breakthrough.

Now both of us independently discovered this issue. Just as we discovered the falsehood in prosperity teaching in our University days together. What further proof that the Spirit is one.

Tithing is dead and buried and like Christemmbassey said here 'the fly wey dey follow dead body, go enter grave with am'. Tithing is a perfect example of making void the grace of God; it is falling from grace; Galatians 5:3-5.

And it is exhilarating to know that more and more people are being removed from its bondage

Thanks ikemofepo, I will check it up.

I maintain that the challenge with the tithe is the fruits its bearing in Christendom. In addition to what ikemofepo has said I believe Jesus talking about putting new wine in old wine skin was with reference to Judaizers who will confuse law with grace after his death.

Also Jesus, Paul and Stephen, three leading grace exponent where accused of preaching about abolishing the law by the Jews. The truth is the gospel of grace does emphasise the end of the law, it is just that for Jesus he spoke of what was to come but Paul and Stephen spoke of what was already.

Seun: I come from a Christian family. All the members of my
family are Christians - except for my stubborn self, who left faith
after it failed him.

Do U mind sir shedding some light on how the failure came about.

For me, I would have thought that Africa's most successful blogger will see that Providence has been good to him and have a reason to believe and give thanks to God.

Farmafric: We deserve the President we got! SIMPLE. How can those guys say what they said? the country is burning and some idiot are partying? We are so tribalistic, unobjective and senseless in this country! i voted for Jonathan because I thought , he is an intellectual but he disgraced me! I will rather vote for the leader of Boko Haram than vote for GEJ again!

Although I did not vote gej, I second this motion

ikemofepo: Funny how people try hard to keep the Law. And selectively at that. Most christians don't study the scriptures but love to argue what's in their heads and what their pastors told them. I'm glad the greedy tithing remained until now. I'm sure God just looked on at how the Old Covenant slipped into the new. Greedy and selfish christians would hardly give anything save the tithe! And if that is how they're forced to give all well and good. I have read so much on this blog. There are two sides, people that talk out of knowledge, and people that talk as mouth pieces to their pastors

You said u were gonna upload a book on tithe. I am waiting for it.

So these laws of prosperity, when where they instituted? We know when Moses got his own; we know with the advent of Christ came the Law of Spirit of Life, when then where the laws of prosperity instituted?

Or could they be new generational? Espoused by Oyedepo, Sam Adeyemi and the other false gospellers.

My guy if U no get work make U vamoose commot for these place. You think you are in your business centre/church, selling gospel to the highest bidder?

mtcshew...