₦airaland Forum

Hello guys, I am still expecting your response on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/1365427/invitation-theological-discuss-one-corinthians#16905012

Tgirl4real: Ermmm... sorry to badge in on you sir, is Deepsight a Christian?

I think I have seen where he said he is a deist.

That is why I used the term proffesing Christians

No idea. Awaiting other responses

1Cr 4:1 ¶ Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Here we have an introduction. Of course chapter four is a continuation of chapter one to three, but so as not to let the discuss be too lengthy I begin here, for emphasis sake. Here is a minister of Christ, Paul, who is different from any other kind of minister today because of his possession of the mysteries of Christ. While ministers may enjoy enlightenment into mysteries of the bible, there are no more new revelations outside what is written in scriptures. This is why this chapter is "mysterious"; could we say that because Paul held Christ's mysteries is the reason why he experienced the things he experienced?

1Cr 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

I will not belabor this point. Indeed the hallmark of any effective ministry, true or false,is that a man must be found faithful in the ministry.

1Cr 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Cr 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Cr 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

We see a couple of things in this three verses:

1. Judge not: We must understand this to be the sort of judging Jesus spoke against in Matthew 7. A sort of judgmental and critical attitude, coupled with condemnation of those who do not see eye to eye with us on the view of religion. I think everyone of us on NL have been guilty of this at one point or the other. 1Corinthians 11 talks about discerning the body of Christ: I think it means being able to see Jesus in another person even if he doesn't belong to our church or if he doesn't share our theological outlook. I would like to know more on this sort of "judge not", Paul is talking about from NL theologians.

2. Permissible judging: Despite being a mighty apostle of Christ Paul would say here : But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment. He is saying in effect, I am not so concerned about men's opinion. I see this as "na every man get im mouth, make im use am as in like; I no send". He goes further to saying that not his or any man's judgement is trustworthy but the judgement that can come only through Christ. He trust Christ to do a better job of judgement in the end. But what I see here is that Paul does not see himself above criticism.


Do these scriptures make an eternal argument against ministers being criticized?

to be continued...

One Corinthians has been the center of my study for the past two nights now and I really want to know if the deductions I am getting from it is truly in line with the whole theme of scriptures and if it a reality in the life of the church today.

I am particularly making this invitation to the following in the house: Goshen 360. frosbel, shdemidemi, Pastor Kun, Boomark,Okeyz,Mr Anony, Deep Sight, Truthislight, Alwaystrue, Bidam, Ihedinobi, Image 123, and Ayoku777. Others who may feel compelled are equally welcomed to share their insight.

Now before I start the discuss, let me as a means of introduction, say that the theme of One Corinthians 4 is that of the life and ministry of the Apostle Paul. My main question here is that is this lifestyle and ministry only unique to Paul alone or is it supposed to be the testimony of all men of God? I understand that God permits both adversity and prosperity in the minister's life, but how come all Paul had to testify in this chapter was simply adversity? Is possible that in the process of watering down our gospel today, we have lost the offence of the cross that is integral to sound gospel preaching?

I have purposely invited people of varied views of the gospel so that we may see this from different point of view but one thing is common among all I have invited, they are proffesing Christians

truthislight: Oladegbu is a fraud!

And he is yet to prove himself otherwise

[quote
author=OLAADEGBU]"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid,
knowing that they do gender strifes" (2 Timothy
2:23).[/quote]Lamentation of a hypocrite!

As long as U are not the one asking the questions abi?

frosbel: ^^^^

Leave the hypocrite, the same person who decides those who are saved and those who are not, typical cult member.

Thank you O jare.

OLAADEGBU: Ai tete mole ole mu oloko. Another tried and tested tactic of the accuser of the brethren is to make the first accusation.

You can open a new thread for the definition of the accuser of the brethren and I would meet you there. The question is did you and your cronies photoshop that pix or not?

And by the way, are you the one calling another person accuser of the brethren?

Who are those who teach that those who wear trousers, perm hair or wear make up will go to hell?

Who are those who teach that if you don't pay your tithe you will go to hell?

Who are those who teach that if a woman does not dress up in a certain prescribed manner they will go to hell?

Who is publishing all over NL false vision of heaven and hell, where abound only deeper lifers?

Those guilty of the above and much more are the accuser of the brethren; those who cannot discern Christ in others except in their own narrow way are the accusers of the brethren.

The question is did you Photoshop those pictures or not?... leave the devil out of this for now

Well done farmer!

Image123: This is very dull thinking, kindly think out of the cage in your shabby attempts at critique. Those are TWO different pictures of the same person on the same day. One in a church, the other probably outside in a shady environment. minds can indeed be blinded.

Look at the two pix again. So we can assume that the woman on her left was tagging along with her through out the wedding, abi? Including going into a shady environment with her? My friend, you are the one being shady here. That other pix Olaadegbu supplied us is the one that was really photoshopped: a desperate attempt to alter the real picture.

In this post I make available qoutes from a reputable bible school and encyclopedias on the tithe:

Moody Bible Institute,

(tithing) , Today in the Word, Questions and Answers, Sept 23, 1996. Giving to God first can become a real challenge to our faith when it seems that our paycheck won't stretch far enough. There's no New Testament command to this effect, because we don't have the detailed instructions on tithes and offerings found in the Law. But setting aside our offering to the Lord first is a tangible way of telling Him that He is first in our affections. It's also a wonderful way to express our confidence in His ability to meet needs

Encyclopedia Americana [p6, 259] ; "tithe"

"It (tithing) was not practised in the early Christian church but gradually became common (in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of Tours in 567 and the 2nd Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century... The Reformation did not abolish tithing and the practice was continued in the Roman Catholic church and in Protestant countries (until it was) gradually replaced by other forms of taxation. The Roman Catholic church still prescribes tithes in countries where they are sanctioned by law, and some Protestant bodies consider tithes obligatory."

Catholic Encyclopedia, New, tithe; tithing

The early Church had no tithing system ... it was not that no need of supporting the Church existed or was recognized, but rather that other means appeared to suffice.

Catholic Encyclopedia, New Advent, tithing history

In the Christian Church, as those who serve the altar should live by the altar (1 Cor., ix, 13), provision of some kind had necessarily to be made for the sacred ministers. In the beginning this was supplied by the spontaneous offerings of the faithful

OLAADEGBU: Can you see how God has exposed the accusers of the brethren on this forum? The bone of contention was the fact that the bride didn't wear earrings but you guys have been so blinded with hatred for the truth that you couldn't see it and you all started shooting yourselves in the foot.

First it was that the whole looks of the bride was altered, now it is just ear-rings... What exactly is your position?
I cannot see ear-rings in either of the pictures. Can someone help me out, pls?

DrummaBoy: I had to reserve this space till i got my laptop to comment proper.

The distinction is clear as has been pointed out by the OP, and as usual, Olaadegbu is no where to be found to offer a defense on these allegations

I understand that John Kumuyi is a friend of Ola, but is this the extent an individual will go to save the face of his friend?

My quesiton has been: if the bride's dressing was as innocous as Ola will have us believe, why are they on suspension.

Olaadegbu, if indeed it is true that you photoshopped those photos, then the hottest part of hell is reserved for you. All those visions you have been publishing, using it to mesmerize the simple in heart to become deeper lifers will turn against you. You will witness the hell you have so often preached about but you will not return to tell the story. All liers shall find themselves in the lake of fire!!! But, of course, only if you lied...

Where is the accused?

Where is Olaadegbu??

Your reputation is in question, sir!

Answer for ya self or forever remain mute!!

I think Goshen has responded well to U, logic, so far. And, pls, be less
caustic in the use of words. People don't respond well to abuses even in the name of criticism.

And for Goshen, as long as we are on a public forum like this one, we
open ourselves to criticisms. I would advice U respond to logic as U have been doing but with less vitroilics.

Logicboy, what are your views of Olaadegbu, alexleo, Bidam and Image 123?

I had to reserve this space till i got my laptop to comment proper.

The distinction is clear as has been pointed out by the OP, and as usual, Olaadegbu is no where to be found to offer a defense on these allegations

I understand that John Kumuyi is a friend of Ola, but is this the extent an individual will go to save the face of his friend?

My quesiton has been: if the bride's dressing was as innocous as Ola will have us believe, why are they on suspension.

Olaadegbu, if indeed it is true that you photoshopped those photos, then the hottest part of hell is reserved for you. All those visions you have been publishing, using it to mesmerize the simple in heart to become deeper lifers will turn against you. You will witness the hell you have so often preached about but you will not return to tell the story. All liers shall find themselves in the lake of fire!!! But, of course, only if you lied...

I've challenged Olaadegbu to a debate on outward adornment but he has not taken it. He challenged me to supply d quotes to what I heard, I did, he avoided the thread. Hmmm...

The challenge with d Olaadegbu kind of theology is the fact that it produces believers with grave cloths on. They are alive in Christ but bound up in religion.

But that is not the biggest tragedy. The tragedy of his doctrine is to have men who have never come alive in Christ but whom d church has succeded in binding up in grave cloths of religion. When their preachers view dem @ d pews, they represent a sea of uniformity: all bound up in grave cloths; all alike: No one knowing who is dead or who is alive. If liberty had been provided, we can tell that this individual is dead and can begin praying for his salvation. But if he/she is dead but padded up in religion, who will save him?

The congregation of the dead.

The beuty of grace is that it comes with truth. We can come as we are and find renewal in Christ Jesus.

I agree with U on this circlic issue. The debates are unending

As U sign out U could make this thread ur signature

Image123: Again we must assume that Jesus Christ and all the preachers around the world are not reputable men of God. confused bunch, when we show them the full messages of these men now, they'll start stammering some gibberish about following christ.

This is what Jesus of Nazareth had to say about the tithe:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And same scripture can be found in Luke also.

Three things can be gotten from the Lord of glory's statemtnt
1. The pharisees pay tithe: Christians do not pay anything; there is no obligation to giving. If the pharisee give tithe then you could suggest Christians too could give tithe but according to 2 Corinthians 9:7

2Cr 9:7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully." [fn] NLV

2Cr 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. NIV

2Cr 9:7 [So let] each one [give] as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. NKJV

Paying command compulsion; giving dennotes free will. Jesus would never say Christians should pay anything, especially after he has payed it all; rather, he would have us to give as we have been given - free will.

2. Jesus says that there are weightier matters of the law; therefore, the tithe is not weighty. This is what Paul says about issues that are not weighty in the church, including that tithing (that is if you agree that tithing is not weighty):

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks

.

We see Paul position on things that are not weighty: 1. Let every man be fully convinced in his heart: allow people the freedom to choose what to do. DO NOT IMPOSE IT ON THEM, because it is not weighty, it is not important. 2. He that tithes, it is to God he tithes, he will receive his reward. He that doesn't but chooses to give some other way, he does the same to the Lord and God is able to bless him too. We should not judge.

3. Not to leave tithing undone. This is the basis for the very weighty matter of tithing, that our churches have based thier action on. Just a statement from Christ, that does not even have the word tithe in it. It shows how unimportant it was to the Lord and how important we have made to ourselves. The response is simple: Jesus was speaking to men, pharisees, under the law, just as he was, and since he kept the law, they should also. To say other wise is to break the law and our Lord did not break the law.

Image 123, the whole trust of this rejoinder is to show you that Jesus mentioned tithing, but it was not weighty and it will do you and your other tithe collecting and giving folks to consider it that way too. If tithing was not important to our churches, why are people being almost excommunicated from the church for not tithing?

So far I have quoted what reputable men of God said on tithing. In this post, I request my readers to contrast these quotes with what our own "reputable" men of God say about tithing:

Pastor E. A. Adeboye is quoted in the story from this weblink: http://www..com/talk/topic,46039.0.html, a story that has gained wide reading here on nairaland:

Members of the fastest growing church in Africa, The Redeemed Christian Church of God are in shock as their respected General Overseer, Pastor Enoch Adeboye, has decreed that defaulters in the payment of tithe would no longer enjoy their marriage being blessed by the church. It was gathered that during the last Holy Ghost convention that held between August 9 -15, 2010, at the Redeemed camp, Pastor Adeboye had a private meeting with his senior pastors where he told them to inform their parish members that henceforth, anybody who does not pay his or her tithe is not faithful and as such will not get any assistance from the church. Furthermore, he stated that it will be a major criterion for ordaining pastors. If you want to be ordained as a pastor and you default in this area you will be disqualified. This includes deacons and deaconesses. Also if you want to get married in the church, your tithe record will be the deciding factor. Parish members were informed that from their head assemblies, they will send their tithe envelopes for upward review at the headquarters. Pastor Adeboye said this new rule will show the members obedience to the church and to God.

These is what the leaders of Winners chapel (Bishop Oyedepo and Bishop Abioye) have to say about the tithe, qouted from https://www.nairaland.com/939913/101-reasons-pay-tithe.

"You don't only tithe on your income ... you tithe also on the benevolences that come your way!" Bishop Oyedepo

"... Prayer and fasting can't avert the curse of poverty! ...Can I say this to you? ... 'There is no point in sowing any seed .. if you are not a tither!' Because the harvest will still be vulnerable to the devourer! .. " Bishop Oyedepo

"Until you re-position your life in truth, regarding tithing .. your prayer and fasting has just began!."Prayer and fasting ... will never open the Heaven! ... And prayer and fasting can't stop the devourer of your financial resources! " Bishop Oyedepo

This apostle of prosperity is showing you a mystery, right now!" Bishop Oyedepo @WinnersChapelNL shocked

"Whether you are a high priest or a low priest ... whether you are a founder or a fellower ..... If you are not a tither .. you live perpetually under a closed Heaven! " Bishop Oyedepo @WinnersChapelNL. " Bishop Oyedepo

"Things will remain tighter until you become a tither! ... Tithe belongs to GOD!" Bishop Abioye

"Things will remain tighter until you become a tither ... things will remain tighter until you become a tither! ... " Bishop Abioye

See as people don dey use 'prayer and fasting' do threat.

There is only one conclusion that can be made from these contrast, while the other men of God did not enforce the tithe but encouraged grace giving, our own pastors overlook the admonition in 2 Corinthians 9:7, about giving out of necessity or obligation, and insist everyone must tithe or be denied church privileges. Or, they say if you do not tithe, you will be cursed.

I myself came across the things that make one a full fledged member of my church here in Ibadan. A list of 20 items are made and number 19 says one has to be a faithful tither. So now that I no longer tithe, that document means I am not a faithful member of that church.

Can we appreciate how low the church has gotten by these contrast?

Again, this thread is dedicated to what reputable men of God say on tithing:

Here, we have Chafer, Lewis Sperry [p224-226], Major Bible Themes, Revised, quotes the Rev. John Walvoord, Founder of Dallas Theological Seminary (Grand Rapids: Academie Books),page: 253-55.

"In matters pertaining to the giving of money, the grace principle involves the believer's recognition of God's sovereign authority over all that the Christian is and has, and contrasts with the Old Testament legal system of tithing which was in force as a part of the law until the law was done away with (John 1:16-17; Rom. 6:14; 7:1-6; 2 Cor. 3:1-18; Gal. 3:19-25; 5:18; Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14). Though certain principles of the law were carried forward and restated under grace, tithing, like Sabbath observance, is never imposed on the believer in this dispensation. Since the Lord's Day superseded the legal Sabbath and is adapted to the principles of grace as the Sabbath could not be, so tithing has been superseded by a new system of giving which is adapted to the teachings of grace, as tithing could not be."

"C. Their giving was not by commandment [1 Cor. 8:8], nor of necessity [2 Cor. 9:7]. Under the law, a tenth was commanded and its payment was a necessity; under grace, God is not seeking the gift, but an expression of devotion from the giver. Under grace no law is imposed and no proportion to be given is stipulated, and, while it is true that God works in the yielded heart both to will and to do His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13), He finds pleasure only in that gift which is given cheerfully, or more literally, "hilariously" (2 Cor. 9:7)...."

". The early Christians, first of all, gave themselves. Acceptable giving is preceded by a complete giving of oneself (2 Cor. 8:5). This suggests the important truth that giving under grace, like giving under the law, is limited to a certain class of people. Tithing was never imposed by God on any other than the nation Israel (Lev. 27:34; Num. 18:23-24; Mal. 3:7-10)...."

"F. God sustains the giver. God will sustain grace-giving with limitless temporal resources (2 Cor. 9:8-10; Luke 6:38). In this connection it may be seen that those who give as much as a tenth are usually prospered in temporal things, but since the believer can have no relation to the law (Gal. 5:1), it is evident that this prosperity is the fulfillment of the promise under grace, rather than the fulfillment of promises under the law. No blessings are thus dependent on the exact tithing...." 266

Bidam: Stop looking at that scripture with a veil.God owns everything,the earth is the Lord's and it fullness thereof,the world and everything in it.Man is just a custodian/steward.When God says you should give him a token,He meant it.Look at it as a spiritual principle,tithe doesn't has to be in terms of monetary gifts.It can be your talents,time,resources given to you by God. Paul says to present your bodies as living sacrifices wholly acceptable to God which is your reasonable service,it is not necessarily talking about physical bodies but your availability to the things of God and His KINGDOM.

Except you refuse to understand, and continue to make this tithe fraud blind your thinking, there is only one theme that runs through all the position the men of God I qouted took on tithing and that is that tithing is not a NT injuction. Rather, we are called to give - or better still grace giving, give as God has prospered you. Wesley even went further that faithfulnes in giving is shown in how we faithfully use our finances, which includes providing for our home before at all giving to church. So he concluded that we are not to give a tenth, a halve or any proportion at all; we are to give all to God. That is be seen to be faithful in the use of our finances.

Now let me appraise this principle you continue to mention. In the debate Ewuosho had with Russel, Ewuosho mentioned that tithing was a principle. Like prayer, in the OT prayer was shown as sacrfices, etc. We do not sacrifice anymore but still pray. He mentioned some other principles that have evolved over the years. He said tithing has evolved from Abraham giving a tenth to Melchizedek in Genesis, to tithing of land produce in Mosaic days, unto, of course, our tithing our salaries today. It sounded good but it is the language fraudsters use.

If tithing can be likened to any principle at all, the principle that tithing follows is the principle of giving.. It is giving that has evolved over the years. But one principle of giving is that he that ministers spiritual things to others, they should minister there physical good to him. In the mosaic days, it was tithing. In our days, it is free-will giving. To employ the tithe and use it as an all time principle is to teach something the word of God does not teach, nor reputable men of God in the past (in spite of their differences in theological outlook) and it is to teach something reputable men of God do not teach today.

Congrats Bro

Now U know the truth, do it.

Fine answer demi

Self righteous people cannot see sin in themselves but in others

Olaadegbu, why have U avoided the thread I refered U to?

Anony, with the above, U don' win... Deep, offa to U!

Lol!!!

@Pastor Kun, thank you jare

@ Bidam

YOU wanted these quotes I took time, opened a new thread and gave them to U and now what... now, it is that they are just men. What exactly do you want?

This tithe thread is unique in that here we have people's opinion on the tithe and not just scriptures. Other thread we debate scriptures but apparently those scriptures have not convinced U. I would advice that U also get your reputable men of God and post their quotes here and let us contrast them.

If not, do what your brother Olaadegbu has so wisely done, keep shut and pretend You didn't see this thread, rather than disgracing yourself all over the place.

To lend credence to the fact that tithing is a modern thing, here are quotes from early Church fathers (along with their source):

Early Church Fathers:

Justin Martyr: [p252] (150 AD) (tithing)

"And the wealthy among us help the needy. . . when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgiving, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us" (First Apology, chap. 67). Also compare Dialogue with Trypho, chapters 17, 19, 33, 112.

Irenaeus:

[p254] (150-200 AD). (tithing) Did not teach tithing. Against Heresies, book 4, chap. 13, para. 3 and chap. 18

Tertullian

[p242] [Church Father] (150-220 AD), 304. (tithing) Did not teach tithing.
(Marcion, book 4, chap. 27) (Marcion, book 5, chap. 9).
[Apology, xxxix "Every man brings some modest coin once a month or whenever he wishes, and only if he is willing and able; it is a freewill offering. You might call them the trust-funds of piety; they are spent . . . on the support and burial of the poor. "

Ante-Nicene Fathers:

Vol. 3, page 46, quotation of Apology, chapter 39. "The tried men of our elders preside over us, obtaining that honor, not by purchase, but by established character. There is no buying or selling of any sort in the things of God. Though we have our treasure-chest, it is not made-up of purchase money, as of a religion that has its price. ?On the monthly day, if he likes, each puts in a small donation; but only if it be his pleasure, and only if he be able: for there is no compulsion; all is voluntary. These gifts are, as it were, piety's deposit fund.' For they are not taken thence and spent on feasts, and drinking-bouts, and eating-houses, but to support and bury poor people, to supply the wants of boys and girls destitute of means and parents, and of old persons confined now to the house; such, too, as have suffered shipwreck; and if there happen to be any in the mines, or banished to the islands, or shut up in the prisons, for noting but their fidelity to the cause of God's church, they become the nurslings of their confession."

Now in the quotes above no mention of tithe is made. They were simply talking of the general form of giving. But note that the giving here were free will giving and this was to the poor and needy, and not to ministers. It can safely be said that the question of tithing or not tithing never even came close to thier minds as tithing was a Jewish thing and these were gentile congregation, and so are we.

[quote
author=frosbel]^^^


1. I believe in ONE GOD like Jesus did.

2. I believe Jesus is the Son of GOD and Messiah

3. I believe that the wages of SIN is death and the gift of GOD is
eternal life through Jesus Christ.

4. I believe Christians have dreams and visions but these MUST line up
with the word of GOD. I have had a dream/vision of the end of the world
myself , but it contained no tours of heaven and hell or messages for
the church, it was a revelation of revelation and the coming of Christ.

5. The rest is religion.

Thanks Bro.[/quote]No need Frosbel and with this quote U have won my eternal respect.

God bless U.

[quote
author=shdemidemi]To be fair to him, understanding the trinity or heaven/hell and rightly
debunking tithe comes with fervent study but it is never a criteria for
salvation. There is only one thing that guarantees the manifestation of
God's power unto salvation, this is trusting and believing in the death,
burial and resurrection of Christ.[/quote]1 000 000 000 000 likes for this quotes

@Frosbel

Pls have U responded to what sheniqua said, If U have can U pls post it again in reply to this.

@Sheniqua

U had a vision of heaven. Good. Scriptural. Frosbel and myself oppose those who have visions of hell and begin naming unscripural things in regards to it.

I am yet to be convinced about frosbel idea of a hell not existing, but I agree with him that no one should break coerced to serve God out of a fear of hell. God love is a compelling enough message for a sinful world.

@ Bidam

Apparently U didn't read those posts in d OP bc d answer to ur questions are there.

Now those preachers did not amplify on their opposition to tithing bc it was not an issue then. Save for Catholics and Mormons, hardly did protestant congregation tithe. To help your memory, just in case you missed it:

Luther:
“But the other commandments of Moses, which are not by nature, the Gentiles do not hold. Nor do these pertain to the Gentiles, such as the TITHE...

Calvin:
For the Lord through the hand of Moses did not give that law to be proclaimed among all nations and to be in force everywhere; but when he had taken the Jewish nation into his safekeeping, defense, and protection, he also willed to be a lawgiver especially to it

Wesley:
Render unto God not a tenth, not a third, not half, but all that is God's (be it more or less) by employing all on yourself, your household, the household of faith and all mankind, in such a manner that you may give a good account of your stewardship when ye can be no longer stewards...

Spurgeon:
But you are not under a system similar to that by which the Jews were obliged to pay tithes to the priests. If there were any such rule laid down in the Gospel, it would destroy the beauty of spontaneous giving and take away all the bloom from the fruit of your liberality!

[b]Billy Graham
It (tithing) is not mentioned in the New Testament except where it is describing Old Testament practices or in the Gospels where Jesus is addressing people who were under the Old Testament law. Note Jesus' comments to the Pharisees in Luke 11:42? A New Testament teaching on giving which may be helpful to you is found in 1 Corinthians 16:2.... This passage brings out four points: we should give individually, regularly, methodically, and proportionately. The matter of your giving is between you and God, and He always takes into account our circumstances. He knows when they are beyond our power to direct and control. The important thing is that we see giving as a privilege and not a burden. It should not be out of a sense of duty, but rather out of love for the Lord and a desire to see His kingdom advanced. Second Corinthians 9:6-7..... What has priority in our lives? Is Christ really first--or do we put ourselves and our own desires first? Make sure Christ is first in your life, and then ask Him to guide you.[/b]

Tithing took on a new life in d 19th century when institutional churches began to proliferate.

The last person who would have taught tithing was Luther because the indulgence he opposed in 1517 - giving to church for d repose of d souls of dead loved ones from purgatory to heaven - are the same things we oppose today. Except the names have changed. It was indulgence then; it is tithing today.

Both of them have in them d same pagan belief that one can curry God's favor with money. The end result is that people are impoverished and the church smiles to the bank.

Catholics built d St Peter's Bassiclica using these indulgence monies; our tithe collecting churches are also busy building all over d place. What's d difference?

Bidam: These men are not my standards, more so i asked you about Luther and spurgeon and you failed in showing me where they categorically condemn the tithes.The problem with you guys is you lack understanding when it comes to kingdom priorites. Anytime it comes to money matters you quickly wear your intellectual caps and start calling yourselves kings and priest and Jesus abolishing the tithes.The kingdom of God is ordered,individually we are all kings and priest but corporately we are either kings or priests. Priest refers to the fivefold ministry gifts, while kings refers to every other saint irrespective of what their jobs/careers are. Paul was bold in making these statements here which all of you fail to see 1 Corinthians 9:13.

Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

But to allow you go away with some face saving, you can allow that these men are just men, and what they say is not equal to scripture. I agree with that too. And then they did not categorically condemn tithing. Nor did they categorically approve it either. They only said it is not in tandem with NT Christianity.