₦airaland Forum

Ibime:
Witnesses said that he fell from a great height. . .

Great height of ecstasy you mean ko?

Eh ya, Get well soon v3 but Muki was a Telescope or binoculars found near the site of his fall? it might give a clue as to what he was doin up there in the first instance. Meanwhile, I'll make arrangements for a consistent supply of agbo jedi and Debo can arrange for the honeyz to Keep our dear moderator fit while he is out of action.

debosky:
You've proved how much of a joker you are. . . 5 SEASONS don't show a trend, but 6 magically will?  Besides, what assumptions did I make? Did I invent the goals conceded never being below 31 since 04? Did I invent the fact that Utd, Chelski and Villa performed better defensively than us last season? 

The five seasons data you have put up there do not show any trend, I accept last season was bad and this season has bee effy so far and if that continues will show a trend (at least for these past 2 years). To lump all that together as 5 years is what I question. The data yu've supplied don't indicate any trend cest finis?

debosky:
Give it up Dudu, you have no case - the trend is DOWNWARDS, with an increasing  average no of goals conceded per season. You can plot it on Excel and add a trend line - figures don't lie.

Don't try any data magomago there, if the performance of 2004 was better than last seasons, whatever line you plot to link the 2 will be downwards, only thing is it hasn't been consistently downwards but has a lot of zig zags along the way so cannot be said to show a trend. I've also pointed out to you that 2004 was unique, in the 2 seasons before that the least variance of our goals conceeded to 2004's result is a massive +10 so how our 2004 result can be taken as an average level of performance from which a downward sloping trend has begun beats me. Try that with the Iya Oloja's Debo.

debosky:
No way. . . .Dudu feels we should simply make profit and hope we can drag everyone down to our level, who cares about being the best in the EPL as long as you can make excuses for it? 

Not at all, I think we should run the club sustainably and then watch as those who don't drop like flies (e.g Liverpool) or modify their modus operandi (e.g Chelsea). And there is no level we're dragging anyone to as a lot of clubs would aspire to be in our shoes, even with all the grumbling and complaints (which are at times justified) we've been consistently top 8 in europe and that is no mean feat. We're trailblazers Debo about how to run a club sustainably and still be successful (though that is yet to come fully), even Europe realizes our way is the best so they came up with the Financial Fair play rules.

Dr Kitaun:
@Duduspace

why do you like using other clubs' misery to ratify your stand ?

u should be using successes of bigger clubs, not hoping they will stutter, its never gonna get u far, u know ?

If Liverpool were to get relegated today, it still will not justify our own failings, we are in the EPL to be the best not do some freaking H2H with select clubs

Thanks for asking Doki, I hold this opinion because I believe its all about cause and effect, I have always stated that I don't envy Chelsea and Manure's trophies, not because I don't like trophies but because I feel the cost of this trophy laden peroid is too high, I might have held a different opinion if for example it was Arsenal which was purchased by Abramovic with access to such free funds(though I doubt it very much).

Arsenal have had to compete unfairly in terms of spending so allow me to rejoice when the people who didn't follow our route fall in to misfortune(after all they are the same set of people who have made fun of us for being Ijebus in the past and will continue to do so until we win something).

Like you rightly point out, Liverpool getting relegated will not justify our failings but it is a clear indication that there is a lot we are doing right which is being taken for granted. I see more people jumping on the bandwagon of unsustainable spending than pointing out the pitfalls of such financial irresponsibility so when they make examples of our failures for not spending, it is only right that someone points out the failures of such a system, it is the same reason why I will point out Manure's losses when they point out our 5 years without trophies, a lot of our fans are unhappy with our lack of silverware but a lot of their fans are also unhappy with their financial state.

I ratify our stand only on one basis, which is that it is a sustainable way of achieving success. I strongly believe Arsenal would have won something without the heavy financial spending of Manure and Chelsea (surely you can't stay that long so close to success yet fail only at the last hurdle as we do), I even agree to some extent that we probably could have won something if we'd gone all out to win something at all costs despite their spending within that period but I'm not so sure it would have been the best option for our long term future.

I choose not to believe (like some people I know) that:

1. The board is not interested in winning trophies (when even a primary school pupil knows there is no better way to improve your brand than to win).

2. That Arsene is a masochist who only wants to set himself up to fail at the last hurdle every season, while gloating over how much money he has left like Mallam Audu when he knows fully well the money is not his to spend.

3. That people who have a recent proud heritage of winning have suddenly decided that being in the top 4 is a trophy in itself without a careful evaluation of the situation in which they now find themselves.

I choose rather to believe that when you see royalty putting on sackclothes, you should know that things are not right in the kingdom.

debosky:
Tankyu oga mathematician. . . . .but then again, Dudu doesn't believe that we have stagnated/worsened defensively while others have improved.

Forgive me he does. . . .according to him that improvement is ONLY because others have S-P-E-N-T more than Arsenal and not because of Wenger's ubiquitous defensive failings.

I don't see how you assume Ibime's statements backs up your assumption, from his statement one can only infer  that 2003/204 was a one off and I've stated that much. In the past season, our defense was piss poor, if it turns out that way again this season, I'll agree with you that we are on a downward trend. anyway have you read this?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=831079&sec=england&cc=5739

Remember what I said about sugar daddies? they are now an endangered species according to Liverpool's board

debosky:
You have now modified your argument. . . . .you are a true son of your father Wenger.

We're talking defensive discipline - Villa's defence costs LESS and defends better than ours - that is the simple fact and is a disgrace for Wenger, after he singlehandedly signed every single player in the squad.

I will accept this view when you put Villa's defensive performance next to Arsenal's for that same 5 year period yu've shown me and try convincing me that Villa's defence is better, is it not the same Villa that leaked 6 goals against Newcastle we're talking about?

debosky:
The defence has gone downhill. . . . .unless Wengernomics has now usurped simple arithmetic, 31 goals conceded is WORSE than 26 conceded in 2004, and is not good enough to win the league in any year since 2002.

And which 2 clubs have been winning this league you talk about with less than 30 goals? anyone outside of Manure and Chelsea? this is the part you fail to see, they win the league because of the overall quality of their squad which they have S-P-E-N-T to build.

debosky:
Ol boy, stop trying to nit pick. . . .I never said 'year on year', that is your attempt to split hairs. . . .looking at the TREND, we are getting worse. SIMPLE. Oh I see you've admitted that.

I don't accept your point about a TREND, there is a difference between a trend and a state of things at a point in time, on last season's result the defence has been poor, but it is wrong to attach it to a 5 year mantra. Within that 5 years there has been a wide variation of defensive performances.

debosky:
What a round about way to admit that the defence is poorer. So your 'point' is that it's not been going down year after year, something no one contested in the first place. . . .dunno when you started arguing with yourself.

For clarity sake, this was the statement I disputed

[Quote]The CL campaign was an exception, [b]the overall trend [/b]is downwards and worsening.[/quote]How that equates to an argument that the defence as it is now is better than that of the invincibles could only have come from your imagination or a stubborn refusal to reflect on what you read because I know as a fact that you don't lack the ability to.

debosky:
So all the years where the CHAMPIONS have conceded less than 30 goals 04/05, 05/06, 07/08, 08/09. . . .are all those 'one-offs' too? Or is Arsenal competing with itself alone for the league? The best defence wins the league, we don't have it = we have gotten worse. SIMPLE.

Can you tell me which teams have won the league in those years again? FYI only two teams, you will make a lot of sense when one of the Villas of this world who you claim are better than us win it. Those clubs have S-P-E-N-T and do not owe their winning to the defence alone.

debosky:
Stop going round in circles - about 5 posts ago, I demonstrated that Cech, Evra, Vidic, Alex and so on were NOT expensive buys. Arsenal could EASILY afford to buy those, but Wenger instead refuses to spend. If you have money and refuse to spend, whose fault is that?

As individual buys, they might not be, but their success comes from the overall strength of the clubs in which they play, case in point, Gallas won trophies with Chelsea but was part of a defence that conceeded a lot of goals at Arsenal because the overall strength of the squad is not as good and that boils down to how much was spent in getting other quality players. Another case in question, Vidic was in a defence regularly leaking goals when paired with Evans but Rio returns and now they are looking like they can't be scored against.

And I don't agree with that your EASILY statement that you make so lightly, at the time most of those players you mention were bought, Arsenal was agressively paying down their loan while selling off the remnants of the invincibles both to keep the wage bill in check as well as to make money from tranfers to keep the club above debt waters.

debosky:
Wenger has FAILED to coach a good defensive side in 5 years. . . arguably even longer (when he bought ready made defenders). Instead of doing what he did then (buying ready made defenders) he refuses and the team stagnates.

If you have anything to counter the latter statement, post it succinctly, I tire rapidly for these epistles

I don't need to, the statement in itself is backed up only with an accumulation of distorted statistics lumped together with unrelated facts which when examined closely have no modicum of matter as to form even the simplest of basis for such an outlandish conclusion.

dayokanu:
How many clubs have won anything in the last 5 months all over Europe?

Wetin concern me with other clubs?  all I know is Bayern haven't won anything for 5 months since all we are counting is the time to your last trophy. 

debosky:
Absolutely ridiculous. . . .so we concede more goals than Villa because we are in Europe? How much did the defenders in Villa's defence cost? You go to ridiculous lengths to justify the unjustifiable. It is a disgrace that Villa can defend better than Arsenal, full stop.

This is inane, no one has a divine right to be better than anyone in any aspect of the game, at the end of the day, we are better than Villa, Chelsea and Manure have been better than us in recent years o pari and there is a reason why that is but you choose blissful ignorance rather than acknowledging it.

debosky:
The squad conceded 42 goals and came SECOND - which reinforces that you CANNOT win the league with a leaky defence.

Yes, and won it the year before that conceding 36 goals in 2002, we have conceeded 31 goals in both 2006 and 2008 and won nada, are those 2 years not within the so called 5 years you are claiming our defence has been going downhill?  

debosky:
The data shows EXACTLY that - we have not conceded less than 30 goals in any season since 2004, so that is poor in my opinion. This is brought into greater focus when we find that the ONLY time the league winner has conceded more than 30 goals was last season. . . .and guess how many we conceded? 41!!!
In 2002, only ONE team had a better defence. . .and it is indicative of the raised bar in the EPL that no one has won the league with such a bad defensive record since then!

And why exactly do you believe the bar will remain static? why this insistence on acting as if creation began after the FA trophy win in 2005? and that life will remain static as its being post 2005? this is the opinion I question, it just doesn't stack up to reality.

debosky:
Keep trying to shift goal posts - our defence has been worse since 2004, that remains a FACT. We have not managed to concede less than 30 goals since then. Furthermore, the fact that the league winners didn't concede more than 30 goals (except last season) further proves that we have gotten worse compared to our rivals.

Our defence is worse off than it was in 2004, only a mad man would deny that, but to claim our defence has been going downhill for 5 years as if its been the same thing year on year is an untruth, that is the portion of your statement I question.

debosky:
Plot it on a graph and calculate the slope. . . .I'm sure you know how to use excel. The slope is upwards without a doubt - more goals conceded as the years go by.

The slope definitely will be downwards if what you have now is worse than what you had before, isn't that a given? what I've said is that it has yo yo'd with peaks and troughs. It hasn't been on a consistent slide. Basically its reflected the overall reduction in quality in the squad and it has not been for 5 years. 2004 was a unique invincible year and a one off as you say, in the 2 years before it we conceeded 42 and 36 goals respectively the variance to 2002 (when we also won the league) is a wide margin of 10 goals.

debosky:
Besides, we cannot look at Arsenal in isolation - if the teams around you are getting better and you remain the same, that is a clear sign of retrogression. Arsenal is supposed to be competitive and up there with the best - our defensive record indicates we are not doing that, and it clearly has little to do with an inability to spend.

Where are these teams that are getting better around us? the only teams I see around are the pretenders like AV who are not as consistent as we are, Tottenham who started out as we are and now look at us with envy and Liverpool who have fallen away rather badly in recent times.
If you are referring to those you can say are truly better than us (Chelsea and Manure), their quality is definitely tied to their spending.
Will you be kind enough to supply the data for these clubs that you claim are getting better and lets see if that statement holds up?

HNIC:
They have sha. . . won a double before abi?
Even if it was in the 19th century!
Uruguay have won the world cup twice

No mind DK joo, yesterday is yesterday abeg, Bayern has not won anything for the past 5 months and they are now flirting with relegation.

HNIC:
If you watch the replay of most of our goals, you will be appalled.
You see midfielders strolling back, unconcerned that we are being attacked.
We really suck in that aspect and until it improves, it will be difficult to win anything!

I second you HNIC, Nasri in particular has been very culpable. In both the WBA and chelsea games he has often allowed the attacking full back get a run on Sagna. Arshavin is not much better wide left. It is usually interesting to see Chamakh who is supposed to be the arrowhead of our attack covering for Nasri wide a lot of times.

debosky:
How much did Villa's squad cost that their defensive performances are better than ours? There is no excuse apart from Wenger's coaching failure and his refusal to spend appropriately to strengthen the defence. End of story

Does Villa go as far as we do in Europe? is Villa consistently in the top 4? and yes Villa have outspent us in the "Transfer" market under Arsene.

debosky:
No one is talking about being an Italian defence - the simple fact is, you DON'T win the title without one of the best defences in the land. When we've won titles, even under Wenger, we've been the best at attack AND defence. I don't know what 'system' you're going on about, but any system that doesn't deliver defensive solidity is a failed one.

That quote is not true, the Barcelona team is not known for defensive solidity and the season 2002/2003 immediately prior to the invincibles season, that squad conceded 42 goals in the league and came 2nd while winning the FA cup, from the data you show below, we've not conceeded up to or over that amount of goals for the past 5 years you say our defence has been poor.
My point is, yes our defence is poor now but it is stretching the truth to claim it has been poor for five years, none of the data you supply proves that.

debosky:
WRONG - the tables have not vanished - in 2004 we were the best in attack AND defence. In 2005 we outscored everyone but still lost the title, which proves you CANNOT win by outscoring your opponents in a league - you must have the best defence too.

Who is talking about losing to Chelski and Utd? Our defence has gotten worse since 2004 and that is a FACT and not media manipulation.

Year GA
2004 26
2005 36
2006 31
2007 35
2008 31
2009 37
2010 41

The CL campaign was an exception, the overall trend is downwards and worsening.

The data doesn't show a downward trend and I absolutely love your play on the data as if 2004 represents all the years before then. Can you kindly show the data from the 2003 season when we were still considered a winning club? or the season before that? Our defensive performance have yo yo'd over the past 5 years and have worsened from 2 seasons ago is about the fairest assumption you can draw from the data you show. It is stretching the truth to claim there has been a downward trend for 5 years, it simply doesn't hold up with this information you've supplied.
If you include the 2 years prior to the invincibles (which was a unique achievement by the way) it blows that theory dead out of the waters.

2002 36
2003 42

Yes the team's defending was atrocious last season, yes it looks effy right now but to claim it has been on a downward slope for 5 years is a calculated attempt to mislead the less discerning.

debosky:
Evidence shows year after year that it can be done. Without repeating all over again, we all know how much Cech, Hart, VDS Vidic, Evra, Alex and others cost - the issue is definitely NOT funding, it is the manager's philosophy - a flawed one at that, which is the cause of this current malaise.

You look at those individual signings in isolation but not at the squad within which they function as a whole. Some of them are good bargains on the part of the manager true, but their squads as a whole were not built on shoe string budgets, no?

debosky:
This has not succeeded in 5 years and shows no signs of succeeding now. Two clean sheets in 10 games is no reflection of a side showing defensive improvement.  As it stands now, our defence is the worst in the current top 7 excluding West Brom, who conceded 6 goals in one game.

I don't think Arsenal under Arsene are going to be a defensive force (a la the italian teams of old or a Mourinho type team) and to be honest with you I don't want them to be. Arsene has his own system which makes our game exciting and has won trophies in the past. He just hasn't had the personel to make it work very recently.
The invincibles conceded goals, but succeeded majorly in outscoring the opponents (a major reason I think we went out to Chelsea in the quarters of the UCL with the invincibles)
The point at which I question your statements is when you lump everything together under the five years media mantra, that is stretching the truth and you know it. Only in the past 2 seasons have these thumpings began. I repeat and you can tell me if its a lie. In 08/09 season, we beat both Chelsea and Manure in the league and in 06/07, we broke a UCL record for defending without conceding with a backline which included Senderos.

yousouph:
@dudu. Am astonished to read that you put your money on Arsenal on Sunday. Now i know that you are Wenger's adopted son.

I know my father and my father knows me.  

Good news on the injury front, Ramsey is only 3 weeks away from a return to full training and Bendtner is back in full training.

Ibime:
Debo is now admitting what I told him 2 years ago, namely that AW's early success was built of George Grahams defence.

Even Arsene will accept that much, he did say that he met a back 4 of graduates from the University of defending. But he showed with the invincibles that he could build one given a fair environment and the right financial backing. In the current financial doped PL I don't think that exists.

I can only hope that one can be built with our youth project products coming of age and shrewd buys like Kos and Squills. Guys like Nasri and Arshavin only need to get their heads screwed on right and stop exposing the defence. Our ever changing squad also doesn't help matters at all but I believe we'll get it right soon.

debosky:
And please enough of the backhand references to Liverpool - their issues are NOT our issues. Buying players didn’t get them in trouble; it was the loans the owners took out to buy the club and lack of proper management of the impacts. We on the other hand are refusing to fix obvious problems in the side after getting the financials right. Money is a means to an end. . . . . it seems the board has forgotten that and think making profit is the end by itself.

This is so untrue, apart from the 237 they borrowed to buy, they have since injected 144m into the club for player purchases mostly. It is confirmed that they stand to lose that amount if Pool is sold for 300m as has been agreed now, just read the Q&A I posted on Liverpools thread which gives the true state of things.

Not everyone has the power to write of milla like Abramovic, abeg Debo don't get it twisted. There is a lot being hidden in those accounts, its only when kasala bursts you get to hear about it, why do you think Alan Sugar has said he can never buy a football club again?  
Fans want someone to come and spend money and win trophies, that is all they care about and that is what has landed most clubs where they are. Our club is well managed and that is something to not take for granted in the present where clubs are falling like flies.

maedan:
Lol, @duduspace, small small you are coming out of the closet . Or are u waiting to see us win our next "silver" before u claim u'r a L'pool fan?

Closet ke? I stopped playing bojuboju a long time ago and only play Hide and seek in the bedroom to spice things up. I support the real Reds and they are based in London and not Anfield. If care is not taken, Liverpool is about to go the way of Nottingham Forest.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=510371.msg6891480#msg6891480 date=1286433034]@Duduspace
Tell your paddy to pay attention to defensive details jare! Do we wait till we are like Liverpool before we change?
Na now u dey talk about facing reality why did you not do that when we where facing reality at the start of the season
I was commenting on a 19year old Boyata making Drogba look like Junior Agogo before the Chelsea match that should tell you how mentally frail the team is
Its Wenger's duty to psyche them up not mine and if he fails to do that then he deserves all the disses he gets afterall he would get the credits if they go on to win[/quote]I get your point about the defensive side of our game, these boys have to grow up fast in that regards, its the MF particularly where this fails and I place the blame firmly on our MF and 2 WFs Nasri and Arshavin, it is only in the past 2 seasons that Chelsea and Manure have started this thumping scorelines they always had the edge over us due to the quality of their squads but we still got the occasional win like 08/09 when we beat both of them, I hope I've seen the last of it, these players should be angry when they take to the pitch against these guys by now.

I've always faced reality about this team unfortunately its most other Arsenal fans who don't see it or have closed their eyes to it when the signs are clearly evident. This team has to GROW to win, it is a project the board and the manager are commited to, you can have your misgivings about it but clearly the way liverpool have gone convinces me its the right way. So many clubs we started out about the same level or those touted to overtake us have fallen by the way side since Arsene's arrival (Tottenham, Aston Villa and now Liverpool), the ones who have outperformed us have spent massively to do so and have always been at the top end. At the end of the day colour it how you will but beggars aint choosers.

debosky:
Consider an ill child is in need of urgent medical treatment and the parents refuse to spend money they have in the bank to treat the child. If the child dies, then their money in the bank might as well not be there because it wasn’t used to save the child’s life.
Of course spending isn't the ONLY issue, but it is the only viable choice to fix the flaws Wenger's coaching has obviously failed to remedy.

I love this analogy to bits and I'll build on it, what if the parents know they can't afford the money for a full dose of curative medicine, and decide to go for immunisation (which has some initial side effects of malaise and headache so the child can't go to play with his friends) but would immunise the child for like 10 - 20 years? its all about long term thinking.

chic2pimp:
Oh really? You must be in cloud cuckoo land if you actaully think Cesc would be satistified with yet another trophyless campaign come the end of the season.

If he is as disatisfied as you claim, why is he still here? why didn't he do a Mascherano?

dayokanu:
So when would the youth experiment you tried so hard to sell to us begin to yield results. Trophylessness from 2005 to infinity and beyond,
So this season is bound to be trophyless
ON TO THE NEXT ONE!!!!!

Look at you on our thread removing the speck in arsenal's eye while Mainz are pulling down your underpants in the Bundesliga, even Rummenigge has realised that Munich might be battling relegation this season. 

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=510371.msg6889764#msg6889764 date=1286398999]@Duduspace
Lol u are a brave nucca. The last time I placed bets on Arsenal was the 08/09 season and I lost big time!!
Ucl and F.A cup semis since then not a chance oh! I buy merchandise and that's where it stops
So essentially after 7 games we are banking on Chelsea getting hurt and Man City not clicking for us to make sunshine
What makes you think we would take advantage if they slip? Do you see why critics lampoon you and Arsene now?
Anyways I still think we can make things happen if and only if we tighten up on D
Unfortunately in Wenger we have a manager that doesn't take that part of football seriously[/quote]Omo, na so e be o. When reality stares you in the face, you get to restrategise or else you end up like liverpool. That money spent at City is no joke at all. But what is this about waiting for a team to fumble? is that not what it means to play in a league? if no team fumbles, won't we have 20 winners of the league? Someone has to fumble that is what the league is all about in 07/08 season we led the league for quite a while until Martin Taylor's assault on Eduardo and Adebayor's loss of form showed us we werent as strong as we thought we were, no be so? undoubtedly Chelsea has the best first 11, but their squad depth is questionable.

A lot of these our players still see themselves as small boys and that needs addressing for sure, its one of the pitfalls in opting for a youth setup. I almost cursed Nasri when he didn't track Ashley Cole for that Drogba goal when he could clearly see that Sagna was picking another player and I noticed he did a lot of that in the WBA match too despite his later gragra that led to the 2 goals he scored. The boys have to become more professional, the ability is in there but they've got to sort out their heads and what they want to achieve.

debosky:
Sharrap there. . . .I have repented so Dudu will be on his own for any more financial analysis. I am not interested in talking about money in the bank.

What do you mean? if you don't have money in the bank how do you get players? abi why do you calculate how much is in the pot to buy players at the beginning of every season?  don't worry, I've already started preparing the spreadsheets for next season. 

Dr Kitaun:
not so fast dude !!!
why the heck do u think we should ever reckon with any of the ramblings u had hitherto put up in the name of defending Wenger ?
isnt it alarming that as early as less than 25% of the season, u are beginning to lose hope ?
dude . . .please help tell your bros Wenger that he should take the Carling Cup seriously . . .at all na hin bad
P.S spare us all those financials b/s any further, better still create a separate thread and take along Debosky with u

On the basis that pound for pound he is still numero uno Doki, to be honest It can only get better with each passsing year as our boys grow, it is a misconception that Arsene doesn't prioritise the CC. we've developed the players and our squad is richer so we should do well in the cups this season, we should be able to make at least the semis in the FA and CC with possibly the UCL too if we get good draws and that can only swell our bank account so that we can tell Barca where to suck when they come for Cesc next summer.

Q. So what would the duo be left with if the £300million takeover goes ahead?
A. Around £200million of the money would pay off the debts owed to Royal Bank of Scotland and Wachovia. RBS would be likely to leave around £30million of the debt as a credit facility for the new owners. Only after all the other creditors are paid would any cash go to Hicks and Gillett towards the £144.4million loan they put in. So effectively, the duo’s losses could amount to anything up to £100million if the deal goes through.
Q. It all seems such a mess – so what happens now?
A. Hicks and Gillett are desperately trying to block the board's right to agree a takeover. If they sack the board, then RBS would claim that puts the Americans in breach of their refinancing agreement signed in April. So it will now be settled in the courts. With an 15 October deadline looming for the RBS debt to be refinanced, the advantage seems to be with the prospective owners rather than Hicks and Gillett.
Q. What if Hicks and Gillett are successful in their bid to block the sale?
A. Even if Hicks and Gillett succeed then unless they have raised the money to pay off their debts by October 15, RBS will automatically assume control of the club, and almost certainly put Kop Holdings into administration and sell the club to New England Sports Ventures.

Q&A on the proposed Liverpool sale.

Liverpool are set to be sold to the owners of the Boston Red Sox but it is a far from straight forward deal that, frankly, has left most of us baffled.
Here is a handy guide to help you try and understand the complicated situation at Anfield:
Q. What is exactly going on at Liverpool?
A. The Liverpool board, led by independent chairman Martin Broughton, have accepted an offer in the region of £300million for the club from New England Sports Ventures, who own a portfolio of companies including the Boston Red Sox, New England Sports Network, Fenway Sports Group and Rousch Fenway Racing. Self-made multi-millionaire John W Henry, who made his fortune in hedge funds, is the man behind the bid.
Q. But current owners Tom Hick and George Gillett are against the decision to sell up - why?
A. The American duo feel that the offer does not meet their valuation and have taken legal action to try to overturn the board's decision. They have also tried to sack two members of the board, managing director Christian Purslow and commercial director Ian Ayre, and replace them with their own people. The club’s chairman Martin Broughton has now engaged lawyers to determine whether he and the non-owner directors have the power to sell the club against Hicks and Gillett’s wishes.
Q. But Hicks and Gillett paid £219million to buy the club back in 2007 – wouldn’t they make money if the takeover goes through?
A. No. When they bought the club it was funded entirely by a bank loan but the debt has since grown due to interest and other fees to £280million. They have also pumped £144.4million into Kop Holdings via a company registered in the Cayman Islands, which was in turn lent to Liverpool.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=510371.msg6884684#msg6884684 date=1286350695]Duduspace I hope that dough u placed on Arsenal was loose change ooh! Cos if na money wey u suppose send to your kin-folk u take bet ontop Arsenal your people go sepe for u ooh lol![/quote]Its some money I could spare at the time, miracles can still happen though even I am losing faith slightly for this season I still think we can make top 2 sha and we might get a Chelsea injury boost but I didnt see this City juggernaut gelling so soon so that might throw a spanner in the works. I didn't place the full amount cos we didn't get Schwarzer but I did some spread betting so one of them must hit.

Abeg if you no credit me I credit myself, Herbalist return Ibime own because the juju no fit decide whether na hand abi na the real thing.

dayokanu:
You mean the blonde babe named [b]PALM[/b]ela

DK, you get problem.  abeg leave me be jare, dat weekend ko da rara. nothin to smile about at all.

Ibime:
Dudu has been failing for several weekends. Considering his failure to lift any real trophy in the last few weeks, he has to make do with Emirates Cup, ie one night stands with his right hand.

You don miss am Ibime, I be lefty. You think everybody's fingerprint has rubbed off on the gbamgbamjigijigi like your own.  

dayokanu:
Ribery didnt learn that at Bayern, Its a French NT thingy. Govou, Benzema were never Bayern players. You see that your Goofs are all round

Don't you know evil association corrupts good manners, that is what fraternising with Bayern Munich guys gets you.  The other 2 only went to watch Ribery and got drawn in.

dayokanu:
Sharap there bloody GAYYner. Instead make you finetune all the details and even have like 3 backup plans you dey here dey follow wenGAY argue over Money. Shiooor.
_{Adojutini Omo, Mo jeri Chamotex, If woman no show, he go enter GAY club.}
Swingers club no dey that side?

E ma binu sir, I don learn small you know say your own na different level. I hear say Ribery na altar boy before he meet you for Bayern.

On a good note, a Legend is back training at the club, these boys need some serious talking to, the ability is there, the squad strength is there, all that remains is for this boys to believe they can win. I almost flipped my lid when Sagna and Malouda were being interviewed and Sagna stated that "Chelsea are the best" I mean what the hell is that about call them champions because that is a fact but how can you big them up and call them the BEST (I can't imagine any of the manure boys or anyone coached by Jose saying that no matter how much I despise him) how can you go into a game against the people you see as the best and win

My brother has said he should be forgiven because something has been lost in translation since he is not a native speaker but abeg the likes of Bobby need to talk to this boys and get them sorted in their heads, there are no more excuses for not winning, this squad is strong enough.