₦airaland Forum

starlingslimnet:
Good News Version says "Whoever is a child of God does not CONTINUE to sin, for God's very nature is in him; and because God is his Father, he cannot continue to sin" To start with there is nothing like born again christains u r either a christain or not. Now what makes u a Christain is when u sin u do not want to continue in it but want to overcome and forsake and God's nature in you,you do not persist in sin. The Corinthians having become born again still have sex with their Father's wives,what is that to you? Its Sin but Paul to them to repent. Now they repenting and determine not to do commit that sin again is the evident of them been a Christain.

on the first bolded comment, i'd say that's just SEMANTICS because anyone who has the capacity to sin as a result of a sinful natured soul is in danger of Hell because the old things in the soul are yet to pass away and hence he's not yet a NEW CREATURE

1John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

On the second bolded comment, i realize that and if you observe my punctuation the use of commas followed by Christian makes the noun Christian a noun in aposition...so you see i'm quite aware

On the third bolded comment i want to ask, can someone who is a partaker of the new covenant with the law of God written in their hearts and minds ever even think of having sex with one's own step-mother?

Hebrew 8:10-11
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

My brother a born again person, born of God, is a partaker of all baptisms - water, Spirit and fire - has a renewed mind and pure heart with the law and the prophets written on them, must be saved in the spirit and in the soul...and such a person CANNOT SIN

twosquare:
I have been following this thread silently but this comment stirred me up coz there are some things that needed to be made straight. The spirit that attacked Paul was an evil spirit but not a demon. All are evil but in classification and cadre of spiritual make-up, all are not demons. demons are earthly but the kind of spirit that made life uncomfortable for Paul are the type that was mentioned in chapter 6 of Ephesians. He was even of the highest strata. Why will a great apostle prayed thrice? And the answered was my grace is sufficient enough for thee. That was not an ordinary spirit sir. It was one of the most dangerous ally of satan. And I perceived in my spirit that it was a seraph. Look at how he was even refered as- A MESSENGER of SATAN.

A heavier,weightier, carnal christian can cast out a demon but the type that made life uncomfortable for Paul, u don't cast out things like that. You can't cast them out. You wrestle against such. All you need against a demon is to cast it out in Jesus Name and it will go... if a thief can cast out a demon, how much more you who have been sanctified in His blood? But these spirits of higher stratas: principalities and power, rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places are beings of knowledge who doesn't operate the same way demons do. Demons are errand boys..u know agbero and area boys for ojuelegba? That's the nature of demons. But these four stratas, one of them came and was after Paul's life...why? They were not really interested in Paul, but they were after his revelations. Paul said by the reason of the abundance of revelation that was given unto him, a messenger of satan was sent to buffet him....tHe reason the Lord waited to make Paul look helpless was because Paul was strong and he doesn't want him to be raised above measure...so He removed the hedge around Paul to make him realize that with all his revelations, he still need help and how he can deal with such a spirit is just for him not to do anything. Just be calm, my grace is sufficient. That's how: grace and peace be multiplied..paul must learn how to put grace(rest) to use.

So, when u hear the likes of Spiritual wickedness in high places; those are the dimensions of throne, deadlier than principalities(what make them princes?). The revelations Paul was churning out was disturbing the "air"(that's their abode- a realm between heavens and earth that was hijacked by satan). They were tired that both the demons and other spirits couldn't handle him. Of course Paul dealt with a divination spirit(demon) with just a word. But a messenger was sent from the dimension of thrones to take him out. Messengers are not ordinary beings. Think of the likes of Gabriel in the dimension of the Kingdom Of God. The guy was the same spirit that made them fall into a region were they were in darkness for 14days and night without seeing stars and sun just because they don't want him to reach Rome.

Maybe some of these days I will explain about the stratas of these guys that Paul made known via revelation.shalom.

Ma bro, the first comment made me laugh...evil spirits, demons, fallen angels all have one thing in common, they are all under the feet of Jesus Christ and his sons who inherit Christ's authority

Luke 10:19

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over ALL the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

On the second bolded comment binding and casting is a form of wrestling and indeed spirits of any cadre can be casted out...but in the case of Paul that spirit was sent to keep him under the corrective power of Christ's grace until pride dies in his soul, that was why he didn't get deliverance as at when he prayed but he got grace...the cadre of the spirit means nothing because all dominion belongs to Jesus Christ and those with renewed souls have inherited the long lost dominion which Adam lost in the garden!

starlingslimnet:
A platform for good discussion, He may still sin but He cannot continue in Sin for God nature abides in him.

is that what 1 john 3:9 says? or is that your own interpretation...if a born again person can sin - that is, have the capacity to sin can that person ever make heaven.

Revelation 22:15

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

the bolded suggests that person who still have the nature of sin in their soul and as a result love sinning will not make it to the new earth!

Many teach that a born again person can sin and this is predicated by the view that being born again is to be saved in the spirit and that the person now has to work out the salvation of the soul, which takes an unspecified amount of time and within this unspecified period of time the 'born again' person can fall into sin but repent and make it right with God

Could the aforementioned be true because it is written that:


1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Can a person that is born again, born of God, sin?

michaelwestern:
Am also guilty of falsely accusing TB Joshua. When i was growing up, all i heard about him were bad unproven things and i grew up with this sentiments against him. However, i didn't take time to investigate all the bad reports i heard about him.

The problem is that most people cant particularly say why they hate him or why they think he is a false prophet. They act based on rumours they've heard about him without carrying out their own investigation on him.

Only God knows if he is a false prophet or not, people should stop spreading false rumour about him. Anybody that has concrete evidence against him should publish it for the whole world to see.

Ma brother that's why i created this thread...I just want to know what that man teaches that makes him so hated by those who claim to be Christians...

i want anyone scriptural evidence against his doctrinal positions to give it and let's examine it with the iron balance of scripture...but unfortunately no one's saying anything concerning this...

elantraceey:
There's a diffence between being possesed and being oppressed , paul was oppressed by the devil but it was written no where that it possesed him.

my sister do you understand what demon possession is? If a person has the power to alter your will and make decisions against God's will then that person has dominion over you and posseses you! The first victim was Eve, whose will was altered and made to make a decision against God's will. As Eve heeded satan she immediately fell under the dominion of satan...

If Paul could handle that demon alone, he would've just bound and casted him out but rather he went to the Lord Jesus thrice...this is to show that because pride was welling in Paul that demon had dominion over Paul but the grace of Christ availed...

Whoever oppresses you has dominion over you...

Job 35:9

By reason of the multitude of oppressions they make the oppressed to cry: they cry out by reason of the arm of the mighty.

Who can call God his rock? If not a righteous person. David, the man after the heart of God prayed this prayer, like Paul did,
as written below:

Psalm 42:9

I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?

and David prayed for deliverance:

Psalm 119:134
Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.

Oppression should be resisted in prayer because oppression can make re-born a person:

Ecclesiastes 7:7
Surely oppression maketh a wise man mad; and a gift destroyeth the heart.

malvisguy212:
The numbers of time I have watch this man programme and listen to his preaching, he preach more about love than any other pastor in Nigeria.

Thank you! Now does anyone have anything against T B Joshua's doctrine of love? Anyone?

Image123:
What are TBJ's teachings/doctrines?
Solomon wasn't giving alms. Giving to God directly through offerings or His ministers is not alms. You give alms to poor people to help them, that was what Jesus talked about. A thousand disobediences do not make the Word of Jesus irrelevant, His words don't pass away as it were.

Solomon's sacrifice was not done in secret and the brethren of Acts did not give their contributions in secret...if T B Joshua also gives in the public his alms would be rejected if he's giving to be noticed of men but it would be accepted if he's acting under the inspired instruction of the HolyGhost...simple!

Image123:
You created the thread nah. I'm asking for the umpteenth time, what are TBJ's doctrines/teachings?

Bro did yu read the opening comment? Pls do! I'm not prosecuting T B Joshua, rather i'm just trying to play the Umpire here...so as many as have listened him and have found fault with his teachings should speak up and well analyze the criticisms in the light of scripture...

elantraceey:
The christian that receives deliverance are they actually born again? Because a born again christian is one who is born of the water and the holy spirit , And such receives the holy spirit dwelling in themand as you know light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place , So if you think you're possed go check your christian root remember on the last day not all that say lord lord will enter heaven

...but Paul was a Christian (or would you dispute that) yet he was buffetted by a messenger of satan and not only was he tormented, he went to the Lord Jesus in prayer three times concerning this...why did he pray concerning this? what was he asking Jesus for? Was it not for deliverance? Divide the scripture wholly and not parochially...


2Corinthians 12:7-8

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

plaetton:
There is hardly anything to disagree with here.
There is no secrete doctrine that insulates or inoculates one from from the challenges or uncertainties of life that is better than reason, rationality, knowledge and experience.

So, supporting your remarks, I say one should stay and fight on with all the faculties of your thoughts and imagination, not cutting and running in search of spiritual shortcuts and bail outs.

The spiritual realms have their own rigid rules, their own fine prints , cliff that most desperate mortals ignorantly fall into and drown.

Be careful of what you ask for.
There is no room for a complainer in a perfectly ordered universe .

On the first bolded comment, your dogged defense of reason and logic as the finality of reality is almost, if not, religious and i won't be in any danger to claim that rationality is your God and your devotion to rationality defies the statistical tradition that gives place for reason and randomness (which often defies reason).

Well as a well rounded thinker, i would not, like you, be in a haste to brand those who seek metaphysical and spiritual routes to bliss as cowards and that's because they are entitled to their own visualisation of reality even as Immanuel Kant, Baruch Spinoza and the likes are entitled to theirs!

On the second bolded comment, i want to ask: how would a sceptic like you that upholds reason and reason alone know of the so called rigid rules, fine prints and cliffs ? Well from that comment, i can safely deduce that you stumbled into the supernatural and got scathed badly. You must have tried the rigid rules and faltered, examined the fine prints and got bewildered and got to cliffs of decision and suffered a terrible fate...Well bro, its you on the run. You're obviously scared, like many are, of the supernatural and reason gave you a safe haven to hide your many fears...Well who then is the coward?

On the last bolded comment, you claim the universe is ordered and indeed i agree but would reason permit you to accept that the universe in its delicate order was the result of an accident at some point in time? Well some thinkers, astro-scientists, who worship reason like you actually have the sheer temerity to assert and teach generations that the ordered universe was created by an accident!

One of the laws of thermodynamics states that matter cannot be created or destroyed but yet scientists, who glorify their precious laws, refuse blatantly to tell the world the prior state of matter that transited into the singularity that began the big bang. Even reason, as a God, has failed repeatedly in science but yet thinkers like you still want many to seek reason as one would seek God...


I am a thinker. I believe in the power of reason but i also believe that reason is nested in the spirit...meaning there are events that make a mockery reason but bow at the feet of the spirit!

plaetton:
Everyone, at one time or another, fall under circumstances beyond the person's control. That is life. There is no perfect life.
I learnt a long time ago that all the challenges and vicissitudes of life ARE THERE FOR OUR EDIFICATION AND ULTIMATE PERFECTION.

Seeking a magical bailout is a cowardly copout, a surrender to primitive fear.
No one should deny themselves the opportunity to learn and grow through the vicissitudes of life.

If there were spiritual solutions to normal life problems, would have a need for hospitals?

These cravings for spiritual bailouts are impediments to rationally identifying structural defects and dislocations in our society and cultures.

My brother let's be real for once. Even the U.S in response to a crisis sought a bailout at one point instead of putting place structural reforms to solve the adverse effect of market failures...Brother every one has its story and every one attests that there were times logic and reason made no sense at all. The events of this life has made people psychopaths, turned many miscreants, made many victims of the vicious, scarred many for life and left them with a reminder of the very words of Job:

Job 14:1
Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.

My brother the events of this life has sent many looking for God...the Yorubas, such wise people they are, have a proverb that says:

eni ija o ba, lo pe ra e l'okunrin meaning he who is yet to fight in war will readily call himself a man

Brave people plunge into the jungle of uncertainty in search alternative solutions when logic and reason fails but cowards are those who repeatedly fall into the illusion of trying to escape the fact that logic and reason fails and fails very often.

They are cowards because they are scared of the outcomes of dabbling into the world of the unseen.

Fredrick Nietsche an atheist was noted to have said: whatever does not kill you makes you stronger

This life is a WAR and those who live to see the next day are those PRIVILEGED TO LEARN FROM LIFE ...Brother YOU DON'T LEARN IN A WAR you fight and those who survive are those fully equipped against FORCES THAT GOVERN THIS WORLD

plaetton:
My point is that both systems are for lazy superstitious weaklings who cannot face the vicitudes of life without recourse to a magical bailout.

And secondly, there are no magical solutions, no Christian solutions, no IFA solutions.
Similarly, there are millions of Christians running from one church to another seeking same solutions that they did not get in their former churches.
We have become a nation of Church addicts, juju addicts, and swinging back and forth from one church to one juju house.

The vicissitudes of life is the product of factors that are outside the control of humans' planning abilities and this brings man to the metaphysical and spiritual aspects of life...What ideas would you give a young lady who is trying to get some education and become independent but fails due to uncontrollable circumstances such as the death of a guardian or parents, the abuse and subjugation of relatives and the neglect of the society and when she decides to turn to marriage as a means of harnessing the synergistic benefits of having a partner and she fails to get one despite faking of 'a larger than life' good behaviour, making unsavory sacrifices and going to extreme lengths? What advice would you give her? Would you recommend she sees a psychologist to explain the woes of her life and how she can get out of it? Or would you recommend she attends motivational programs (while she has bills to pay)?

This is why many seek spiritual solutions sir.

we do not need to get unnecessarily sentimental and use abusive words...you may have personal hatred for T B Joshua but please we are not here to vent our hatred but to examine the grouse that any may have against the doctrine of T B Joshua and his teachings to see if they are in line with the scriptures and its tenets...However if you do not have any grouse against his doctrine or teachings and yet you hate him then you are in danger of Christ's own words in Matthew 5: 21-22

Equado:
Hey shuttup....which doctrines does this Tuberculosis joshua teaches?does he teach...whether you admit it or not that man has been revealed to be an Occultic grand master...tell mi the doctrines and ill get back to u

my brother it is not the ACCUSSED that will provide evidence for the PROSECUTION... you may be part of those attacking his ministry so please provide the doctrines that you are against and let us examine them together...

JMAN05:
How many poor people has he stepped into there houses for preaching? If he goes to UK, CHINA, where does he go, to the houses of the poor as well? into hinterlands, and thatch and mud houses? or does he land in a big man's hotel, or popular stadia expecting people to come for "night of wonders"?

Why is it that I ve not seen these his preachers in my house or even my street? or are they that few? He is only known for miracle not preaching the goodnews. His so called evangelists also go to advertise miracle, not preaching message about the kingdom. Is he sending to other nations when no one has seen his preachers bring the message to there doorsteps. Jesus used his feet and walked along the streets and houses to preach. Even though he had many people who came to hear him, it never made him to stand and tell people to assemble in a stadium, "I will be coming on tuesday for deliverance, if u ar not rich, you will be rich, if you dont have a husband, you will get one, if you want a big job, come and get one". That is the gospel we hear today. Jesus went and searched for people, not announcing a Crusade.

The founder of Christianity, and the Second in Command in the whole Universe, used his feet and walked on the way searching for people, he didnt live a luxurious livestyle, while these idiots that think they are something, will stay in hotel, private jet and expect people to come looking for them.




Whether they call themselves GO or not, they are the head of there churches, you ll always see the head of these churches drawn on a large bill board with his wife. That's there church, NOT Christ's. Both Adeboye, Kumuyi, Chris, there bill boards tells you the owner of the churches. Thats there enterprise, they are all rich business men.



Why wont they collect tithe when neither Jesus nor Paul, Peter or James collected tithes. These are business men, they can tithe or sow seed, thats money-making avenues.

I said you should produce his doctrines here, I never claim to know all of them, but I know that whichever way, there is a common demoninator, that even if you do not know there doctrines, this enterprises must have similar trade mark.

read your bible bro before making comments on christian matters based on total ignorance...read Acts 4:33-37 people in the church of Acts did not only pay tithes and offerings they sold what they had and brought it to the feet of the apostles...they gave with a true heart better than we do nowadays...read scriptures well sir, for by they you think you have eternal life...

plaetton:
Same can also be said of your so-called deliverances. In fact, the IFA is much more credible, and perhaps even more effective than the fraud of Evangelical Christianity.

It's a simple matter of whether one is inclined to traditional superstition or religious superstition .

the bolded suggests that the inclination of a person would determine the functionality and efficacy of any of these methods of seeking a solution...that's funny! Anyway how would you explain the myriad of persons who have tried these traditional superstitious methods and have seen their failure and have fallen back on the christian-solution?

bisous:
something's like what? Did the 3days fasting no water no food,Been celibate for years now,obeyed all the laid down rules , even stopped fixing my hair and using make up which I didn't believe I could ever stop ,(2015 will change that) so many things I can count...
After the deliverances with all the prayer points against witches and wizards I left more suspicious than I came ,everything/everyone was suspect

My personal conclusion is seeing a genuine IFA priest is worth much more than all the deliverances I attended combined X 10,the only crux is finding one that is genuine

Most of these pastors are their greatest patrons but they'll do everything to brainwash their followers not to do same

Ask those that consulted with these IFA folks and ask where they are today...learn by reflection and not experience...

JMAN05:
I know he does not go to people and preach the goodnews, but stays in one place expecting people to come to him. Does he also encourage going from house to house, market places to spread the goodnews?

get your facts before using the gavel...

T B Joshua sends evangelists to countries for revival via deliverance and many accept Christ by just attending and attesting to the power of God...he's been to Korea, China, UK, Ghana etc spreading the knowledge of God's power, stopping the mouth of Atheits and quickening the faith of others! So sir get your facts right!

JMAN05:
He is the head of his church. That is a disqualification.

If he's the head of his church then Olukoya, Adeboye, Oyedepo and even Kumuyi are what...church members or what!? Olukoya is called G.O, Adeboye called Senior Pastor, Kumuyi called General Suprintendent...the list is endless...but as mature Christians we know that these men are shepherds but yet part of the brethren...so is T B Joshua! A shepherd but yet a brother and not a RULER OF THE CHURCH because he leads by the HOLYGHOST!

JMAN05:
If he takes tithes, then that disqualifies him too. I do not know all his doctrine. So do well to say them.

Doesn't Olukoya, Adeboye, Oritsejafor and even the Catholics take tithes...bro raise other valid doctrinal issues...

Goshen360:
Many Churches around the world deceive themselves thinking they are preaching the "Gospel of God and of Christ". The truth is, a Christian is deliverer and need no deliverance after salvation but alas, there's so many "babalawo-preachers" in the pulpit. Go to the Greek and look up the meaning of the word "salvation" and set yourself free from these lies of the devil. Preaching and\or conducting deliverance for those who have received the finished works of Christ by faith is an eternal insult to the blood of Christ.

but bro what would you say or do about the case of people who believe they genuinely gave their lives to Christ and have applied the so called faith principles taught by men of God but are still locked into one problem or the other with deep spiritual roots? What!?

at the heart of my view concerning this issue is a challenge of the existing theology on salvation and it's requirements ...but i fear many will detest and reject it as heresy though it's based on scriptures...

Anyone watching the MyTV series of gospel channels, particularly those of deliverance ministries and non-deliverance ministries will readily see a conflict...while the KINGDOM LIFE NETWORK folks teach that born again folks do not need 'deliverance', we see DELIVERANCE MINISTRIES like MFM, SCOAN etc have PASTORS, MINISTERS and G.Os coming from far and near for deliverance there...could you share your views concerning this...

for Sons and babies...

twosquare:
unless a man be BORN-AGAIN, he cannot SEE the Kingdom of God....unless a man be BORN of WATER and SPRIT, he cannot ENTER. They are two different things bro. A born again can sin and the definition of being born again in most gatherings is wrong(that is once u're born again, u can't sin). To be born of water and spirit is becoming a overcomer because a tiger kid will always resemble her mum. So a person born of the Spirit will look like the Holy Ghost....they're now sons of the Wind. If their father is a mighty rushing wind, how much more His offspring?
Why do the epistles talk about salvation of the soul even though they are writing to believers( that should cause you to meditate). The knowledge of the Son is not saying I know Jesus...no, it is coming to His full stature in ur soul... Ur spirit became regenerated(that's old things has passed away and u're expected to continue). In other words, if any man be in this Christ, he is a new creature...(To be "in" is consistency. To be renewed consistently in ur mind- which is also an offshoot of the soul).
To have a soul saved is also to write the law on their hearts...it doesn't take one day to achieve that unlike the regeneration of my spirit...it will require skillful ministers of righteousness to write on the heart of the people...remember paul, ye our epistles...written upon not by ink.....paul by revelation took time to write on them and as the writings are going on, they change from glory to glory that they become read by men. The reason for the Epistles in the Scripture is to achieve one thing :save our soul...they are materials meant to cleanse the soul and swallowed it with Life(the oil in in Psalm 23).
For the fact u're saved in ur soul, yet you still do somethings that are not expected of saints. So,falling into sin even though u've given ur life to Christ that doesn't mean u're not born again, but u're yet to be born of the Water and Spirit. The reason for being born again is for you to be able to SEE the Kingdom(not only going to Heaven) and the second phase is for you to be able to ENTER the Kingdom( because entering heaven and entering the Kingdom are two different things. You can enter heaven and not enter the Kingdom). So being born of that water and spirit is that u've attain salvation of ur soul, u've become light and not earthy. Coz satan made the soul of men earthy by seeking things that passes away.

Sir you teaching runs contrary to Christ's!

You said:

twosquare: So,falling into sin even though u've given ur life to Christ that
doesn't mean u're not born again, but u're yet to be
born of the Water and Spirit... The reason for being born
again is for you to be able to SEE the Kingdom(not only
going to Heaven) and the second phase is for you to be
able to ENTER the Kingdom( because entering heaven
and entering the Kingdom are two different things. You
can enter heaven and not enter the Kingdom)...

Suggesting that being BORN AGAIN is different from being BORN OF WATER AND SPIRIT and both have different rewards with the former yielding HEAVEN and the latter the KINGDOM

But when Christ answered Nicodemus in John 3:3 he stated that access to the KINGDOM is by being born again and when Nicodemus did not understand that concept Christ, the Teacher, defined being born again in John 3:5 as being born of water and the spirit and again he stated that this was the prerequisite for entering into the KINGDOM . My brother being born of the Spirit is to be saved in the spirit and being born of water is to be saved in the soul and these two combined makes one BORN AGAIN and whoever is in this condition lives the life of Christ here on earth and that's the KINGDOM but HEAVEN is a location (that shall pass away and be renewed) and only those who have the life of Christ, The KINGDOM , can make it there...that's why Paul noted in: I Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 that those who sin will not inherit the KINGDOM and hence won't make it to Heaven Revelations 22:14-15 ...You see bro the DANGER in your teaching is the view that a BORN AGAIN person can Sin ...that's dangerous because many would claim they're still undergoing soulish transformation and that it takes an unspecified time period, maybe a year, a decade or even a century but yet claim they are BORN AGAIN thus deceiving themselves and others that they shall inherit the KINGDOM . No wonder Jesus said:

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

He said: ...few there be that find it meaning only a few there be that SEEK it because if you don't seek you won't find (Matthew 7:7) and they won't seek it because many would think they already have it, so why seek for what you think you already have? and by so doing many who think they are BORN AGAIN find themselves in HELL ...Bro, to be BORN AGAIN is to be born of water and the Spirit and to be saved in the soul and the spirit, it is to have the LAW and PROPHETS written in your heart and mind, it is to be a PARTAKER of the NEW COVENANT, it is to be a NEW CREATURE!

...vague mundane facts devoid of spiritual realities engendered by parochial induction riddled with selection bias...

Image123:
I think Solot quoted New Testament and clearly about ALMS giving, respect that context.

i did bro, i respected the context and in addition i gave him scriptural instances where his criticism of T B Joshua could also have been levelled against Solomon and the brethren of the Church of Acts...so it's a thing of the heart and only God searches the heart so only God can judge NOT US MERE HUMANS...but we can judge his TEACHINGS against the standard of the WORD...

for by our words we are condemned and by them justified (Matthew 12:37)

An analysis of your 'division' of the word leaves 'puzzles'

Now you stated that:

twosquare: At new birth, our spirit got saved
(which was dead) but there is an aspect which the Holy
Ghost hasn't taken over: until the redemption of the
purchased possession (ephesians I think). That aspect is our soul, the salvation of the soul isn't one day because in it are many paths which needed to be swallowed by Life. No one can save a soul, to have a soul saved is coming totally under the dominion(will) of God. That soul has been transformed..have u ever wondered why born again still misbehave? Their soul is not saved yet, even though their spirit is saved already. The salvation am talking of (for clarification) is not about going to hell or heaven but conforming into the full stature and image of the Son.

The implication of this is staggering. If a person is born again he cannot sin as said by John below:
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But according to you a person born of the Spirit (meaning having a regenerated spirit) could make mistakes, a euphemism for sin , since his soul is still undergoing transformation!!!

Now i ask if a person has MURDER in his soul and this manifests in malice, anger and hatred but this person's spirit is regenerated can we safely say that that person will make the rapture?

This is my SUBMISSION :

Salvation is a PACKAGE that starts with the regeneration of the spirit at the point of ACCEPTING CHRIST (Romans 10:9-10), then goes to the soul with the WASHING and RENEWING by the WORD, BLOOD and SPIRIT (2 Thess 2:13, Ephesians 5:25-26, Hebrew 9:14) and ends with the hope of BODILY TRANSFORMATION promised at the Rapture (Romans 8:24-25 and I Thess 4:13-17)...

So to be BORN AGAIN is not to be saved in the spirit alone, it is to be saved in the spirit and in the soul...The soul is the home of the HEART and MIND and you cannot partake of the new covenant until you are saved in the soul as it is written below:

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

In conclusion, that PROMISE which the old testament prophets desired to have but were denied, the PROMISE of I John 2:25 is that of ETERNAL LIFE and eternal life is the KNOWLEDGE OF THE SON OF GOD as defined by Christ in John 17:3, realizing that the Father and Son are one (John 10:30) and the SON is the WORD (John 1:1) and that Word must be WRITTEN IN THE SOULS OF NEW MEN (Hebrew 8: 10) for them to be partakers of the NEW COVENANT...hence you are NEW CREATURE when the old things in your spirit and the old things in your soul are PASSED AWAY ...so I agree with you twosquare on what Paul had that John didn't have but the currently taught theology bordering on the definition of being BORN AGAIN makes 'me' uncomfortable because it's erroneous for a BORN AGAIN Christian to sin simply because his SOUL is not yet SAVED!

...any critique of my views are welcomed!

twosquare:
the salvation you mentioned in the first post and this one you are saying are two different things: though part of our course in the faith. Salvation is beyond accepting Christ....after His acceptance, salvation still continues which is the salvation peter talked about(salvation of the soul). At new birth, our spirit got saved(which was dead) but there is an aspect which the Holy Ghost hasn't taken over: until the redemption of the purchased possession(ephesians I think). That aspect is our soul, the salvation of the soul isn't one day because in it are many paths which needed to be swallowed by Life. No one can save a soul, to have a soul saved is coming totally under the dominion(will) of God. That soul has been transformed..have u ever wondered why born again still misbehave? Their soul is not saved yet, even though their spirit is saved already. The salvation am talking of (for clarification) is not about going to hell or heaven but conforming into the full stature and image of the Son.

In other words and in clear xplanation: the end of our faith is achieving the salvation of our souls. When u hear Paul saying I have finished the race...-t also means I have finished this course of faith, I have come to the end of our faith(kept) which is the salvation of the soul. Satan taught the soul of men certain things that God wants us to unlearn through process(disciplines,sufferings). My soul is not yet saved until it beams Christ and it became marked with something. I can then say I bear the mark of christ. This is what the prophets of old which to get..-t is beyond the indwelling of the Holy Ghost but the formula the Holy Ghost wanted to give the latter saints about how to have their soul saved. Having the soul saved is a step away from immortality(being full of Life in abundance). The saints of old saw the promise but couldn't get hold of it. To have the image of the Son is becoming an heir to the inheritance of the world to come. Salvation still continues in heaven, it doesn't end here.

i love you twosquare you are hot...now let's delve deeper into your exegesis!

Soloter:
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font] in the light of the above text taken from Matthew 6:1-4; who will you say this man, T.B. Joshua is? He publicly flaunts his alms giving so as to be loved by many and also to lure many unsuspecting men to his congregation.

As for giving in the public, if T B Joshua does it to be seen of men then his reward awaits but if he's doing it to encourage and spur others to do likewise then his reward also awaits... but what would you say of Solomon who gave 22000 oxen and 120000 sheep to God in one day as seen in I Kings 8:63-64 (is that a kind of show off to you) and what of those who sold their property and brought the proceeds to the feet of Peter as seen in Acts 4:34-35 wouldn't that be a show off too...

Bro, that man T B Joshua teaches that 'what you give is not as important as the way you give it' so you see he knows that giving must be from a sincere, broken and contrite heart...and i believe he gives that way to make many follow suit...


you say he LURES people to church!!! That's funny because more than 70% of the people there throng the church for solutions they can get from God that money cannot get! He hasn't chained, forced or compelled anyone to stay, pay tithe or worship there...

Bro bring a SOLID ARGUMENT against his DOCTRINES...

gabe15:
lolz dos guyz won't show up but if it is to criticize dae wud show up

Ma bro i tire o...it's nt enuf 2 just give baseless criticisms...let those against his teachings give their critique...afterall faith comes by hearing the word of God...so are the words of T B Joshua the words of faith and hence the words of God or they false? CRITICS we await yu!

chosen124:
very simple
we are save by grace
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

and grace came by the Death and resurrection of Jesus Christ
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John and all the old covenant saints were under the law
while Paul and all the new covenant saints are under grace and it is the grace of God that brings salvation
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Another issue is How would one get this SALVATION? If you want to LEAD an unbeliever to getting this SALVATION what scriptural steps would you mandate for him to follow to receive this SALVATION

chosen124:
very simple
we are save by grace
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

and grace came by the Death and resurrection of Jesus Christ
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John and all the old covenant saints were under the law
while Paul and all the new covenant saints are under grace and it is the grace of God that brings salvation
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

you haven't addressed the question...John was under the law not grace but yet he was filled with the Holy Ghost from the womb my question is: what is that 'salvation' Peter spoke of. What really is that salvation that Paul had that John didn't have even when he was filled with the Holy Ghost...

Because if John could be filled with the Holy Ghost and yet not be under grace then many may be filled with the Holy Ghost and still not be saved by grace...Many who say they are CHRISTIANS today and saved by grace do not have half the righteousness of John the Baptist, with pastors stealing from the offerring box, CHRISTIAN couples having sex before marriage and ministers going the way of Hophni and Phinehas...and i believe it's because MANY really don't know the SALVATION that Peter spoke of in I Peter 1:9-12

this is nt a HARD NUT folks...or is it!