₦airaland Forum

Lana1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoGbgt7CXZM



Meanwhile, just look at Shaw twerking back to the defence while we got counter attacked from his wing....and it's not the first time. I dont know how long he'll keep getting away with this kind of behaviour

He was not through on goal to be on highest speed. And I guess Salah is faster

Lana1:
Carrick that outran Aguero few seasons ago in the Carabao cup before he retired. Maybe na another Carrick u dey talk.

Make I see the video, cos Carrick is naturally slow. In terms of pace na Fellaini 1.3

patrickmuf:
Rooney was an AMF. When he was younger, he operated as a SS. He only dropped back to AM when he got slower and ineffective as a No. 9...

You were here when we argued Rooney for two years when the big guys were here 2013 to 2015. Did we compare Rooney's stats with Carrick, Scholes, Anderson, Ramires, Mikel, Alonxo, or we conpared his stats with RVP, Suarez, Mata, Torres, Chicharito, etc when we compared performance of 2013 to 2015?

Why do you now compare same position with Central Midfielders?

Lana1:
Even Rashford.
Can never imagine players like Rooney or Carrick escorting Salah like that.

Carrick didn't have the legs to chase. He for no cope with Salah pace.

Salah can afford to off his shirt to celebrate. His heatmap used to be in Ashley Young's pocket

This is three man midfield. If we played Liverpool this was, you could say we played a three man midfield. But Perriera was playing in the hole behind James and Martial.

The number 10 is never a central.midfielder. Simple. A midfield of 3 and a midfield of 2 are not the same.

patrickmuf:
Pereira when attacking is an added body forward but in a defensive shape, he drops back into midfield. In the pictures you displayed, Pereira is an AMF whose responsibility is to link the midfield and attack, he is primarily a midfielder with freedom to join the attack. That he has that freedom doesn't mean he is an attacker...

And so what was Rooney's position and Welbeck's position in those pictures?

Lana1:
Well, i agree. Maybe he shouldn't have hacked Salah down. But he should have been all over Salah and made it difficult for him to shoot.
James was right there and Salah still had such an easy shot on goal.

The tackle was poor. Salah would stand no chance if someone like Smalling, Valencia, Young was in James' position. Even Herrera.

airmark:
Ratings are intepreted but not to discredit the final ratings, like you attempted to do. Whoscored rated Henderson as the best midfielder on the pitch, Yes or No?

Tell me how Fred did better than Henderson defensively as you earlier stated, with stats.

This is not discrediting final rating but interpreting final ratings which we have done since 2013 here. A player who played 55 minutes and subbed off will have his ratings analysed in comparison with a other who played 90 mins.

Many of such small factors come to play.

Lana1:
If De Gea put the same energy he used to get all up in the ref's face into commanding his box, he'd have a better defensive record.

James should have hacked down Salah from making it 2 but he decided to form escort services.


Our guys are too gentle & nice. Na only ref dem sabi flex muscle for.

Red card

airmark:
Why should you interpret concluded ratings? You want to now use VAR for your reliable site, when it doesn't favour your stand.
A
Their final ratings are what we need and we know that Henderson was rated above Fred, no need for any further interpretation.

It's either you tell us now that whoscored rating system is reliable or not. Then we may move to squawka and you show us if Fred was the best midfielder there too.

Ratings are interpreted. It didn't start today. For instance, if a player took a red card for his team and they won, he would have heavy marks deducted for the red card. Analysis would reveal he was the hero, but not stats.

Henderson was in a winning team, he got some free scores. Fred was the best on individual performance aside Dijk

airmark:
So those two minutes before update, activities during this period should be ignored, right?

All your efforts to throw whoscored final ratings to the bin, won't work. You used whoscored rating last time, you must use it now. Not in-play rating, final rating is what is important.

Salah's goal came at nearly final whistle. I took it after Salah's goal.

I am not throwing away final rating. I am interpreting whoscored ratings. Data analysis. After you have collated your data for your thesis, you have to analyse the components.

These too will help you, Patrcik

Patrickmuf

Please can we resolve this for once. Pereira/Lingard/Mata are playing in the numbet 10. The 'hole'position is not a central.midfield function. It is a forward role with main responsibility to create chances and linking play with left winger, right winger and the striker.

I have some screenshots for you to understand. With this our arguments can be easier.

airmark:
Yet no goal sign on Salah in the picture snapped. You snapped it before Salah scored.

whoscored is updated every two minutes. The Salah update will not be there na. So also the rest 21 players who would get -/+ based on the goal. If I knew I would have snpped the upper part of the chart.

airmark:
Dispossession nko? Aerial balls won nko? You were marking your own exam script.

Unsuccesful touch nko?

Fred had the higest touches of 98 times, yet did not have any unsuccessful touch. Henderson had 2 unsuccesful touch despite having just 63. He also had less pass accuracy even though he passed only 50 compared to Fred 72. Henderson was playing in the better team.

Some stats...........Fred....................Henderson
Pass accuracy.....83.3%.................76%
Passes....................72........................50
Touches.................98.......................63
Key pass..................2..........................1
Dribbles...................3...........................2
Fouled......................2............................0
Diposssed...............1...........................0
Unsucc'ful touch..0.....................2
Tackles......................3............................6
Interception............4...........................0
Clearance.................0............................0
Thru balls..................0...........................1
Accurate crosses.....1..........................0

elampiro:
My argument stands, nothing special in Liverpool midfield. Mostly as I said, our midfield is more creative. Even the defence today, Fred tried.

Highest tackle for United Fred 3
Highest interception for United Fred 4
Highest dribble for United Fred 3
Highest chances created for United Fred and Bissaka 2
One of the only four players to get a shot on target
Fred had zero unsucessful touch and only one dispossession.

As for Liverpool, Hendenson had 5 tackles and zero interception which is their highest. So don't say anyhting like he did better difensively than Fred. And Fred beat him in the attacking stats

I already mentioned in my last paragraph here that Henderson for more tackles. But interception na zero.

airmark:


What time did you snap this and what time did they score? You meant players' activities during that period should be ignored, right?.

During the match Fred was dispossessed, Henderson and Wijnaldum weren't. Both won more aerial balls, Henderson won more tackles, how did you come to your conclusion below?

I snapped it after Salah scored. It is unfortunate I forgot to snap the time. But you can see Dalot who came in at 87 minutes already got some points for playing.

Hendenson won more tackles but zero interceptions. Tackles+interceptions, Fred won hands down. Fred also won more attacking stats and dribbling.

airmark:
You were the same person using whoscored to prove your midfielders outperformed Liverpool's, some days ago, despite telling you what we watched was different from the stats you bandied up and down. Bring that same whoscored to see the players' ratings for the match, let's see, leave what you watched.

You need to understand whoscored. I knew this argument would come up, so I quick snap whowcored before they adjusted rating after Liverpool's goal.

Fred was the second best player behind Dijk , but Liverpool scoring meant United players lost some points from their ratings all Liverpool players getting additional marks even though only the goalkeeper and Salah made the goal.

spillo1:
LMFAO....Midfield is the most important part of the pitch for any team. Doesn't matter how good your attackers or defenders are, if you can't control the middle of the pitch you won't win consistently.

And Liverpools midfield is the epitome of consistent domination at the moment. They are so well drilled, so intelligent and fit. There was a moment towards the end where Henderson and Gini both sprinted the length of the pitch to counter attack, they were both the furthest back and then the furthest forward in like the 80th minute. I hope I am wrong but I see Liverpool burning out by next season.

Yet Liverpool strikers and defenders are close to winning Ballon D'or where their midfielders are not considered. One analyst from Owo says the Liverpool midfield is the most important.

Remove Salah, Mane and Dijk from Liverpool, they become like Everton or worse

patrickmuf:
You do know that it was Martial who picked out Wan-Bissaka, right?
Pereira in that game was a midfielder, the most advanced of the midfield 3.

Then that was not a chance. A chance leads to a shot on/off target. If you called that a chance, then Matic had a similar pass. In football, a chance is created when it leads to an attempt at goal. If a goal is scored, the creator of the chance gets a credit called Assist. Bassika would have got an Assist for a perfect pasa. Martial would have got what is called 'second Assist' which is not used by any football body, except whiscored which would have awarded him good points.

Manchester United played 3-4-1-2. Pereirra was in the hole. He was not a central midfielder. That was same position Rooney played behind RVP for two years. Why was Rooney not considered a central.midfielder?

airmark:
Who told you this? Whoscored?

Both Henderson and Wijnaldum did better than Fred, someone that looked sloppy in the first half. He did well in the second half though.

I am not talking about whoscored. I am talking about what I watch. Fred created two chances which equaled total three midfielders Liverpool. He still went to beat them all in defensive stats. So what were they doing?

airmark:


You and Dayo, have something in common.

So Mane and Salah were doing towing services on the pitch, for Jordan to shine. Something Martial and speedster James, couldn't do, right?

Mane and Salah have been close to winning the Ballon D'or. James and Martial don't even get EPL nomination.

kendrick93:
Haha......You mean Fred??
Fred is the one of the most useless signings ever brought into the league.....
Wijnadum and Henderson were far better...
Don't ever put Fred alongside those players oh......dem no be mate

Wijnadum cannot be near Fred's performance in that match. We could contest Hedenson, but he was on a winning team playing with a world class forward and defence . And Fred beats him in attack and defensive stats

kendrick9:
nonsense....
It's Liverpool's midfield that enables Liverpool to play the way they play....
That midfield is the engine room, the kind of running ,pressing that midfield does is why klopp rotates his midfield regularly...
You talking rubbish

Which running and pressing? Do they cover more ground than other midfielders?

airmark:
What game did you watch? Henderson was the unsong hero, the best midfielder on that pitch, if you know your football. I am never his fan, but was impressed.

He will look like an hero when he has Mane, Salah and co dragging defenders away

patrickmuf:
Fred is just one out of 3 midfielders. Martial created our best chances.

We have two midfielders. Fred and Matic

Fred was our best player. Matic should be third or fourth.

Our best chance was missed by Pereira which was creates by Bissaka. The second best chance was missed by Martial.

patrickmuf:
Hehehe our argument then was hinged on the fact that whilst some of us argued that our supporting cast citing our midfield and defense was poor, you consistently argued that they were not as poor whilst hailing Liverpool's attack.

While the game was on, I watched how Liverpool's midfield joined their attack in the press and how their fullbacks especially Robertson exposed the obvious weakness in our set up...Funny enough, the much maligned Martial was our most creative player on the pitch.

With that Liverpool attack, even Eyimba midfield will look world class.

Do you remember how good Oshea looked in oit midfield? Even Phil Jones in midfeld behind Rooney, Berbertov and Chicha? Liverpool main Asset is the attack. The defence is very good too. But forget midfield.

Fred ball pass Martial yesterday. Forget stories. The memory is still fresh