₦airaland Forum

Somebody please find that interview on YouTube.Aljazeera like any news agency now has YouTube videos of interviews and the likes.
This man will explain to me and millions of Nigerians like me how gets the right to call me lazy when I go out everyday Sunday included and bust my chops to make a living.
The millions of Nigerians who work hard to make ends meet have again been insulted by this foool .
If Ameachi is the face of the APC in the south south then that party is finished.

JANK23H: The reason is simple and has no political under-tone.Bokoharam left their turf (asymmetric warfare) and felt they could beat the NA on their own turf (conventional warfare).Even when they recorded little successes here and there,I knew it was only a matter of time for them crumble.

The moment they started to claim territories for themselves,they left themselves exposed.

You've said it all,I don't have to add one more word.
When you move from hide and seek to taking and holding territory, the territory holds you so to speak you now have the same vulnerabilities a normal army would have.
One small problem though:they are no where near a normal army

barcanista: Oh David Bakare? Another inconsequential dimwit!! A NincompOop to the highest order and a nematode undisputed.
Who cares about "another" Bakare that is not the Amiable Pastor Tunder Bakare?
Who cares about a wannbe commentator and Ayo blink blink Oritsejafool butt-licker?
We have the likes of Cardinal Olubunmi Okojie, a social critic and activist per excellent to listen to. We have the likes of Femi Falana and others.

Whoever David bakare is, he should Go and die

Carry on,you do not even deseve a retort.The scriptures says "there is a way that seemet right unto a man but the end result of it is destruction".

Someone put up a reasonable argument stating why the attacks on Pastor Ayo are misguided but you just go full insult on him.No wahala.

Ok I just passed on the number to a friend of mine who has a need for a flat in ajah.I hope you don't mind.

Ok I just passed on the number to a friend of mine who has a need for a flat in ajah.

Aguveso: You could call me on any of the lines, or chat on whatsapp/BBM

is this no activ on what's app 08038433289?
Or the other 0708 number.

How do we talk?

Its amazing that the writer finds it easy to vilify the American way of life and political system(absolutely his right by the way) and makes out that the Chinese and Russian way of life and political systems are the best things that have ever happened.However if he was a Russian citizen or even Chinese he could never put that write up and expect to be a free man in either of those countries .
The hypocrisy in this write up drips like a leaking tap.
I've noticed that pattern with the self avowed haters of the west and praise singers of everything Russian or Chinese ask them to leave the west and take up in china or Russia (independent of any western support institution) and see how long they last and they will sermonize that that is not the issue.
Take any easterners and leave them in the west and they will most likely find it difficult but ultimately survive why because the west has social support systems and guarantees for the basic right of every individual.From time to time things go wrong and mistakes are made but the fact that there is an enduring commitment to better things ,in terms of the fundamental rights of everyone in the society means the west is better .
How many people can write apparently inciting comments like that in most if not all non-western countries and go free?

Impressive that they did it before China at about a tenth of the budget (about 74 million dollars) that the US achieved theirs (671 million dollars).

Nice to know that China hasn't won the race for Asia yet.

JuanDeDios: Rather than acknowledge the role of corruption in all this or even cite one country where universities are involved in the stages of arms production, you have decided to widen this into nonsenses about tribe, Switzerland and definitions of development.

If you ran a search around here you will find posts to convince I’m a supporter of Ihejirika. The difference is that my support for him is based on principle, whereas yours is based on ethnicity. That is why you have assumed (wrongly, but does it matter?) that I must be Yoruba since I dare call for the government to do the right thing when the name of someone from your ethnic group is mentioned. For you, there are two group in Nigeria – Biafrans and others and each group is made up of undifferentiated people who all think alike. That is why you have arrogated to yourself the spokesman for “Biafrans” on this matter since to you all Biafrans think alike and should automatically agree with you.

I don’t have time to school you on the dynamics that saved Switzerland from WWs 1 & 2 but it may interest you to know that there were countries with trained male populations which were attacked and countries with untrained populations which weren’t. Anyway, I am a longtime supporter of compulsory military training for males, something you are strangely confusing with your no good idea of tasking universities and polytechnics with arms production, err development.

I already conceded that designs can come out of universities – since anybody can come up with a design and if it’s good the relevant industries will adopt it. Why don’t you cite examples of universities that are involved in arms “development”?

People like you, people who can’t beyond parochial interests, are the real problems of society – in Nigeria tribal considerations won’t let them condemn corruption once their kinsman is involved and if you give them Biafra they won’t know what do with it since their life course is about agitating for Biafra.

At least, you now agree that Dicon has a role – that’s progress. For now, Nigeria needs to stop whining about America not giving them weapons (as if the AK-47s they have been using forever came from America) and IMPORT weapons from Eastern Europe, Asia or wherever to defeat Boko Haram. You have a war to fight – just stop hankering after weapons you never had, stop stealing and get the job done. After that draw up a plan that should ensure limited self-sufficiency in armament within the next 5 to 10 years by repositioning Dicon. Dicon can take good designs from wherever they come – universities, Ariaria market, Black Technology’s laptop, anywhere, as long as it’s good. Private sector participation can be encouraged but not in today’s Nigeria for so many reasons – unless we can get our act together.

Thank you.

I think you've said the last thing there is to say on this matter,anything else is just you repeating yourself self and arguing circuitously something I have resolved to never do on NL.Once you have given what you believe is you last word on any issue, it doesn't matter if you do not have the last word.

berem: ...And this is a governor that CAN wants to give an award for God knows what! forgetting that southern kaduna is a christian dominated region that's been tormented by islamic terrorists.

What a shame!

Didn't you at numerous instances claim that BokoHaram had nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with Gej and his cohorts?

horpe132: Lobatan !!!

::: My helmet ----- CHECK
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::: My bullet Proof Vest ------ CHECK
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::: My Rifle / bullets -------- CHECK
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::: My Village -------- CHECK

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::: Okay lets relax.........all is well

Is that a checklist for the e-war you hope will start in this thread?
I see you.Take your time oohh.

talktimi: why ate you trying to call Lie Mohammed a Liar ? He wanted to hoodwink us with Obama's first tenure presidential primaries and you came here to blow the cover. Na WA for you o

My lips are sealed .
I may be PDP supporter (no point denying that) but lets play it clean.Try not to name drop and bait.
Political discussions without insults is possible if we just try a little bit harder.

Please someone should tell me if the Democratic party of the United States conducted a primary election before presenting Obama for re-election three years ago or for that matter if the Republican party conducted a primary election before presenting Bush Junior (as unpopular as he was alleged to be at the time) for reelection against the seemingly preferable John Kerry.
Looking closer at the home front, how many parties from the PDP to the AD,APP ,ANPP to the recent AC/ACN have had primaries to determine whether an individual would be up for reelection WHEN THERE WERE NO OTHER INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE PARTY DECLARING INTEREST IN RUNNING FOR THAT POSITION.Mind you I did not prequalify by saying Credible Individuals.
How many people have come out publicly within the PDP to say they want to run for president?
Primaries don't happen for the hell of it.I will condemn the PDP if there were a crowd (two is a crowd) of aspirants and the party unilaterally declared one individual (incumbent or not) the flag bearer without an election.
How many people have [size=13pt]Publicly Declared [/size] their presidential ambition in the PDP note that I did not ask how many people have presidential ambitions in the PDP.?
This trend of the APC spinning facts and circumstances to suit their narrative has got to stop it turns away rational independents from them and for an electoral population of around Seventy Million,that is a lot of independents.

barcanista: Imagine the mediocrity that he is. He is only better than Jonathan in business. But when it comes to lootocracy, ATIKU na baba

He is not better at anything, he just owns the companies he managed to acquire by means of stolen wealth and others(to be more specific foreign experts run it). If Atiku so much as pretends to run those businesses they will be toast within a year and that is a known fact.He is not the only one some most of Nigeria's new supposedly indigenously owned mega firms are owned by individuals whom we all know started (acquired) those businesses with money from our common treasury.Atiku is just the most visible.
You can't run a country using that model

mko2005: ''However, we note with dismay the unguarded utterances of some leaders that they will call on their followers to defend themselves.''
From the above as stated by the JNI goes clearly again that it is the game of tit for tat. Let's consider below few quotes from Oritsejafor:
''If you continue to forcefully convert our girls to muslims that means you have declared war on Christianity''
''If you do not stop bombing us and our churches we will be forced to defend ourselves''
''Islamic leaders and cleric please call Boko Haram to order''
''We too, want to have freedom, freedom of religion, freedom to worship as we choose without fear, we want to have justice, based in equality and not driven by discriminatory religious practices. Let me remind us that this is not about economics but about an ideology that has a history of sponsoring genocide across the globe.”-Oritsejafor addressing a US Congress subcommittee concerning terrorist attacks on Christians in Nigeria.

From the above statements uttered by Oritsejafor,i think i can understand how the JNI and other Islamic bodies and leaders would want to continually tie him up completely with the purported failed arms deal or money laundry as it were.
If a man says he has a private Jet under lease with a particular company called Eagle air not minding if he has interest in that company or not and the said Eagle Air company put the Jet up for lease with another company called Green Coast Produce Ltd who inturn hire this Jet to a certain persons for a certain Business, How should it be that it is the owner of the Jet we run to first to ask questions if not that this Owner is ur enemy or once upon a time a pain in ur a.s,s. ! The first persons to quesry in this case are the persons been caught with the said 9.3 million dollars.The second group should be the operators of the Jet(Green Coast Produce ltd) and by extension,Eagle Air would be involved since they are supposed to ask questions if they hear that the company they leased out their Jet to isn't forth coming with positive news concerning their property.As the Owner of the Jet,I get worried when I don't receive any alert from these operators or Eagle Air with which I have residual interest in. The Only reason people generally will not confront the federal government and query them heavily concerning the failed arms deal should be when they have something negative already concerning Oritsejafor who is in my opinion a bizness man the bible has always encouraged,for us not to heavily rely on tithes and offering.No wonder Apostle Paul says he works with his hand to make a living and not rely on the congregation.''We work wearily with our own hands to earn our living.......''1 Corinthians 4:12a.
Oritsejafor should be the last person to be queried concerning this issue and the reasons are numerous: He isn't the operator of the Jet even though he owns it.He isn't the company that leased it from the operators.He isn't even the charterer or among the persons found on the Jet.He is is not FG that says the money belongs to them.But he is definitely the first outspoken CAN president and the very first CAN leader to openly declear his interest in supporting a Christian leader(G.EJ)a spiritual son(G.E.J) who supports his ministry.
Some ask some questions ranging from why did the government not use a military Jet but a private Jet and I say,if the operation according to government is a covert operation you still expect them they go with a military Jet ? Use ur head mates ! Why should it be Oritsejafors Jet that must be chartered according to El-rufai ? To put things straight,he only owns it but does not have the power to say who charters it since he does not operate it.Besides,a Jet must be chartered for this 'covert operation' and fortunately and unfortunately,it was Ayo,s Jet that was Chartered.Besides,it is possible that Ayo must have told all his 'sons in the lord' in the lord that his jet is currently up for lease now and in case they have any private bizness they should charter his Jet so as to increase biz for Eagle Air where he has interest,BECAUSE more bizness to either eagle Air or green coast produce means more money for Oritsejafor.
In my own opinion,i think some catholics who are ignorant will be hitting hard at Oritsejafor since he is a Pentecostal pastor and since they equally claim not to be part of CAN not knowing that in the body of Christ if the hand suffers the leg will soon feel the impact because the devil is aiming the head in the long run. I can understand why the muslims should call for Ayo's head. Oritsejafor is a terror to the enemy and you don't expect the enemy to go and sleep. They must fight to bring down their enemies. But we still have some Pentecostal Christians who are in APC and are not just happy tha AYO is an ardent supporter of Goodluck and does not hide it and they say bring him up for a roast ! There are some others who just becaus AYO isn't their pastor not minding that they are Pentecostals,they say AYO should be stoned. We have the neither here nor there who doesn't know their left from their right but only time will position these ones !

IS NIGERIA HEADING THE WAY OF TURKEY ? From history,the apostles were first called Christians in Antioch the ancient Syria which is the today's Turkey and Christianity lasted there for only 1,023 years before the present percentage of 0.02 percent and Islam about 98 percent and it was the same Turkey Apostle John took Mary the mother of Jesus to after the death of Christ. What do you think lead to the rapid decline of Christianity in Turkey ?

Simple,Osman Ghazi the brain Child of the Ottoman empire capitalized on the disunity amongst christian denominations ! The contemporary Christians are at it again ! We fight denominationally ! We kick against the anglicans becos we are catholics,we kick against the Pentecostals becos we are anglicans,we kick against the baptists becos catholics etc ! These we do some times unknowingly! Some are out there waiting to capitalize on our disunity to send us into OBLIVION !

God help us !

U couldn't have said it any better than I would have.I made this argument on another thread a few days ago.

IdomaLikita: While Xtians are busy Hating Xtians, Terrorist are busy Loving Terrorists!

And putting the sword to the necks of Christians who still refuse to recognize that a war is being waged against them,instead they choose to buy the narrative sold to them by those who have no right or standing to judge,that CAN is now a political body ,as it should very well be. The Nigeria council for Islamic affairs has been a political body, REPEATEDLY AND INCREASINGLY EXERCISING THEIR POLITICAL INFLUENCE OVER THE NIGERIAN POLITICAL SOCIAL ECONOMIC AND SECURITY SPACES PRIOR TO AND ESPECIALLY SINCE TENURE OF IBB GOING FORWARDS.They (ncia) have had a say on everything about how this country was run.
There is no need rehashing every single
case, if you as a Christian who has lived in or around this country for at least twenty-one years claim you have not seen numerous instances of the above assertion then you really are one of two things :in denial or really really oblivious to the politics of Nigeria and therefore do no have any credibility to comment on the subject matter.

sangresan: .......History books?Name one amigo...

Maybe I will.....after you site the evidence or documentation for your claim that the soviet union was outperforming the western block in industry and productivity.
Aside the history that is so well and thoroughly documented, I do remember numerous lecturers while I was in school who had their education in the soviet union at the time relaying the facts of the matter at the time:
The soviet union was well behind the west in almost all indices of development the only place the Reds made efforts to close the gap was militarily,but rationally looking at things ,of what use was it if you declare that you are in conflict with some adversary but the only sectors that there was any semblance of parity was in the ability to kill a whole lot of people quickly and efficiently.The health sector was not comparable the quality of life was no contest,overall happiness of citizenry was a no contest.

idonbilivit: Atiku said he grew up an only child,a farmer and a shephard boy. Let's just adopt a brother or sister for him,give him a land and some sheep. We made a mistake not buying shoes for GEJ when he told us he grew up without shoes instead of giving him Aso Rock. Nigerians should be wiser now abeg.

LOLZ.......you kill me with that line"lets adopt a brother and sister for him......."

page5: Reading through this thread,
[size=15pt][/size]
All I can see with this generation is division, division and division.[/size]

I am indeed afraid for the future of my dear country.

I really don't care which part of Nigeria you come from, any suspected criminal, should be investigated and if found guilty, should be brought to book.

The 2 major reasons behind our backwardness and under-development is TRIBALISM AND RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS.

Every issue in this nation is now viewed and coloured by religious or tribal considerations.

Objectivity, logic and dispassionate analysis of issues is far becoming rare these days.

As a southwesterner, I have had far better and more trustworthy friends from east and north than some of my kinsmen and it could be vice-versa.

I am willing and ready to vote for any Nigerian from any part of this country that van demonstrate his capability to take nogeria away from this slippery-slope we have been in for decades now. I don't believe there is any difference between all the present political parties be it APC or PDP.

I will gladly be happy to see any corrupt general or politician who has been found to have amazed wealth illegally sent to jail whether he is from Yoruba, igbo etc.

Politicians have continuously use the religious and tribal sentiments to divide us because we refuse to learn.

When they share money and positions, they don't talk about religion tribes.

The future of Nigeria will continue to be bleak as long as we don't think and act like one nation.

We will not move forward, if all we consider is tribe or religion.

We should all remember that bad governance result in poverty, unemployment, etc . These vices do not have preference for any tribe or religion.

I can't say you are wrong but for my own part,it mighrhave something to do with the fact that I grew up in the north(kano to be specific) and I always remember that on the day of the first common entrance examination I ever had was day one of the three day (Reinhard Bonke) sectarian riots in October 1991 about four thousand people were murdered in the most grizzly manner for being southerners and for being Christians because some of the natives did not like that an international crusade was about to take place in the city of kano.My family barely made it out of that period alive.We were escorted by heavily armed mobile policemen and a fee army guys out of gaidi-gaidi a suburb of kano but we saw a lot of the remains of those who did not make it :decapitated,disemboweled,stabbed and burnt bodies littered the roads we used to make our getaway.
After that year,every year following that there were outbreaks of nearly the same magnitude all over the north : kano,kaduna ,kastina ,Bauchi,Maiduguri,jalingo .
How many people did the governments of the day arrest and try? ANSWER:zero
Obasanjo recieved his own special welcome around October 1999 when he flippantly made a comment about reviewing allocations for oil lifting licenses a sectarian riot broke out in kano.
Targets:southerners ,Christians,anyone who did not look core north.
Government action: Condem and deplore the violence
Number of people arrested and persecuted.
Answer:Zero

Lets not forget the miss world riots in 20 , sectarian riots in response to a journalist speculating on what Mohammed would have said /done about the contest/contestants.Yet again killings and arson in Abuja of all places and majorly in kaduna.
Governments responce? Same ole Same Ole.
Number of people arrested and prosecuted ? None

Same thing during jos riots ,same thing during the kaduna sharia riot and so so many others (all within Obasanjo's administration)
Who did he catch lock up and throw the key into the lagoon ?
Answer:None.

In spite of this history everyone is pretending that boko haram is something new well I say its not, its an evolution of an old problem only this time they have found the means to kill more efficiently and their target listing has increased to including Muslims and northerners.
One can't live through that reality and not feel divisive.

NgeneUkwenu: This is a serious matter, let's not go tribal! I am Igbo but I don't support criminality as exemplified by jonadafft and ihejirika!

.

I'm not Igbo but some igbo people I know on and of NL swear you can't be igbo, not because you are contrarian but because you choose to see the worst of anything igbo. But for my self I have this to say: you may drink the cool aid (that those who ascribe everything wrong with Nigeria to igbos give ) just know it does not make you less igbo. It especially does not stop you from getting beheaded and incinerated if you are caught in troubled spots in places like kano ,zaria ,bauchi or even jos when next (not if mind you) some people feel their god has been slighted (probably somewhere outside nigeria or even africa) and decide to go out and avenge him with the blood of the infidels and the inyamiris.
Be wise.

IdomaLikita: While Xtians are busy Hating Xtians, Terrorist are busy Loving Terrorists!

And putting the sword to the necks of Christians who still refuse to recognize that a war is being waged against them,instead they choose to buy the narrative sold to them by those who have no right or standing to judge,that CAN is now a political body as well it should be the Nigeria council for Islamic affairs has been a political body REPEATEDLY AND INCREASINGLY EXERCISING THEIR POLITICAL INFLUENCE OVER THE NIGERIAN POLITICAL SOCIAL ECONOMIC AND SECURITY SPACES PRIOR TO AND ESPECIALLY DURING TENURE OF IBB GOING FORWARDS.They (ncia) have had a say on everything about how this country was run.
There is no need rehashing every single
case, if you as a Christian who has lived in or around this country for at least twenty-one years claim you have not seen numerous instances of the above assertion then you really are one of two things :in denial or really really foolish.

F117A: Calling you a pseudo-intellectual is paying you an unmerited complement.
You are dishonest.
Maybe you think the US will sell weapons to Nigeria with buhari as president.

I think that is what they believe.It will not happen but if in the unlikely event that they(US,Europe) do sell weapons to Nigeria during a Buhari presidency (God forbid bad thing), every politically aware Niger deltan will take that as a confirmation of the fact,that the west was complicit in the alleged failures of the Jonathan Administration for reasons ostensibly in line with their long established policy of giving the core north a leg up over the south (south south,south east) which they have done since long before and since,independence basically for the oil.
If this scenario plays out,you can be sure that the responce of the dissidents from the Niger delta will make just as much trouble for Nigeria as bokoharam currently is only difference would be that the target will be Nigeria's economy not killing innocent people like boko haram currently.
They will attack oil platforms storage infrastructure,export infrastructure,energy production via gas pipelines everything and anything that matters to Nigeria's economy, within and around the Niger delta .
Abulkadir Kure ,governor of Niger state a few years back once threatened that "just one act from the north will affect this country seriously" he was refaring to the what they the core north could with the hydro dams located in Niger state to bring Nigeria to its knees.
The Niger delta will not carryout "just one act" it will carry out several.....
The APC strategists realize this which is why they are fighting to bring in as many political heavyweights as they can into the party not that they have any success but they can try.
Come,post Jonathan 2015- they will find out how little influence the Ameachis, the John Odiguns and co have on the feelings of the peoples (I used the term peoples because this is not just about the ijaws) of the Niger Delta.

Aigbofa: You obviously assume that Nigerians are not smart enough to sift through the cacophony of lies and half truths to know what is true and what is false.
I guess you will trust Jonathan and his ministers to determine that for them as it is done in some other places.

Nigerians are not Chinese and if their system works for them maybe it is because corruption is severely punished in their country. Can you load a private jet with millions of dollars in China and fly it to another country?

Nigerians are not foolish, let anyone publish what they like we can discern the truth and if you are slandered the courts are there.

Nigerians are smart enough? And they bought the bullshi*t stories about kolanut curing Ebola then salt and water and possibly pesticides ........? MIster please......whatever argument you were making has been invalidated by that line .
I wouldn't waste my energy debating the subject topic with you because your understanding of the Nigerian physic is fundamentally flawed.

cktheluckyman: A muslim-muslim ticket will never fly in today's nigeria!!! This is not 1993!! Too many much blood ave has been shed in the last few years on two decades alone (think Rinehart Bonke riots kano,sharia riots kaduna,pork riots Bauchi etc,etc) in religious crisis in the north targeted at non-muslims and any one dimecidedly not looking core northern not to mention the ongoing boko haram crisis!! Flying a muslim-muslim ticket in 2015 will amount to political suicide

Fixed.

kokoA: Why should CAN release a press statement on behalf of Oritsejiafor?

What has CAN got to do with the guy's private business?

Does the aircraft belong to CAN?

This pastor doesn't know the implications of what he is doing.. Nigeria is a very volatile country when it comes to religious issues.. This is a country where a cartoon painted in far away Denmark led to the killings of hundreds of innocent christians. Yet he brought in CAN into this issue to justify his own personal business activity.

Mr CAN president, speak for yourself! Do not drag Nigerian christians into your business.

You say that as if the "killings of hundreds of innocent Christians" a normal and perfectly justifiable consequence of a cartoon mocking Mohammed in Denmark .
Please show evidence of one case of CAN or anyone associated with them justifying or even sanctioning the murder of any number of Muslims innocent or otherwise.
You statement again for the umpteenth time makes clear the belief Moslems have that they reserve the right to go on a murderer spree of the bloody kafirs whenever they feel "provoked" never mind that the so called provocation had nothing to do with the physical peril of any Muslim.Just look at our prophet sideways or so much as hiss at his name and we would kill all you infidels we have tolerated with inhuman restraint.

kokoA: Why should CAN release a press statement on behalf of Oritsejiafor?

What has CAN got to do with the guy's private business?

Does the aircraft belong to CAN?

This pastor doesn't know the implications of what he is doing.. Nigeria is a very volatile country when it comes to religious issues.. This is a country where a cartoon painted in far away Denmark led to the killings of hundreds of innocent christians. Yet he brought in CAN into this issue to justify his own personal business activity.

Mr CAN president, speak for yourself! Do not drag Nigerian christians into your business.

You say that as if the "killings of hundreds of innocent Christians" is a normal and perfectly justifiable consequence of a cartoon mocking Mohammed in Denmark .
Please show evidence of one case of CAN or anyone associated with them justifying or even sanctioning the murder of any number of Muslims innocent or otherwise.
You statement again for the umpteenth time makes clear the belief Moslems have that they reserve the right to go on a murderer spree of the bloody kafirs whenever they feel "provoked" never mind that the so called provocation had nothing to do with the physical peril of any Muslim.Just look at our prophet sideways or so much as hiss at his name and we would kill all you infidels we have tolerated with inhuman restraint.

carefreewannabe: You must have different history books.

That was the most complete answer I could have thought of.His history books are different from the history of the late 20th century that is well known.

brownlord: Their Oga will be here any moment fuming and emitting different acidic propaganda just to suit his job and masters, if he's not here in 30 minutes, he will send banicansta, that's their errand boy

Please can we try to have a reasonable dialogue and not jump immediately into ethnic and party based insults?
I am from the SS but I need to understand why the SW delegates made the decision they made.
Lets keep this thread clean ,just try it cannot be too hard.