₦airaland Forum

true2god:
When does making a rational point become an 'emotional' response? It seems you are fasting and you need concentrate on it and stop making a frivolous claim. The fact remains that your quran makes no sense without the hadith, and the hadith is the compilation of rumors and gossips by a man, 250 years after Mohammed's death, who never saw Mohammed or any of his companions and this same hadith (rumors and gossips) are what you guys use in the interpretation of the quran. This is an 'expo' bro and try open your mind to a more critical reasoning free from religious dogma.

shadeyinka:
The statement above was made by you not by someone else in a dead thread! You have been replied! Answer the questions asked or the issues raised and stop being an escapist!

shadeyinka:
Why would you make up an untrue defence as if the people you are addressing don't have an iota of knowledge of Islam.

1. It is known that the Qur'an was written and memorized as soon as Prophet Mohammed was recieving it! Yes or No!
2. If your answer is YES, then, the Qur'an was memorized sequencialy as it was revealed.
3. Then it was impossible to reorder the Qur'an until the whole Qur'an was revealed.
4. The fact that at the compilation of the Qur'an some companions knew of some chapters and not all means that at the time of Prophet Mohammed, people just recited the chapters without any particular order. This was reflected in the compilation.

Arrangement wasn't by Allah else, the Al Fathia would have been the first revelation. You remember when it was reported vthat a tame goat ate part of the revelation. This wouldn't have been possible if it was memorized according to a certain rule.


When Ibn Umar—son of the second Muslim caliph—heard people declaring that they knew the entire Qur’an, he said to them: “Let none of you say, ‘I have learned the whole of the Koran,’ for how does he know what the whole of it is, when much of it has disappeared ? Let him rather say, ‘I have learned what is extant thereof’” (Abu Ubaid, Kitab Fada’il-al-Qur’an).

Hear what imam Muslim said:

Sahih Muslim 2286
—Abu Musa al-Ash’ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur’an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust.” And we used to recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it . . .

This shows that entire chapters of the Qur’an were forgotten. If this is true, how could there have been an arrangement!??

shadeyinka:
Cc: Empi.ree

Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims re-ordered the Suras in a random manner!
Allah revealed the Qur'an but Muslims allowed a tame goat to eat part of it (incomplete Qur'an)
Allah revealed the Qur'an in at least 7 Arabic tongue (dialects): But Muslims deleted all but one.

What kind of editing could be more serious than BURNING all versions and circulating a single "palace version" for all by Muslims. It's called destroying Evidence!

sagenaija:
Don't be too quick to respond to posts.

Take time to understand what has been posted.

The Bible has its ORIGINAL manuscripts. It is from these that KJV, RSV, etc are translated. The English of KJV may differ from RSV but the messages remain the same.

It is not so with the Koran that was only out together in the last century. Mohamed never wrote the Koran. It was supposed to be RECITATIONS; right? Why were several copies of the recitations burned after Uthman used his accepted fragments to compile a copy?

sagenaija:
Empire, the guy said:
“My major problem with the bible is the many many MAJOR REVISIONS of the original "BOOK"”

Revision means amendments, modifications, changes, etc.

The question is ‘How has he proved this?’. He just listed great grandfather, grandfather, etc write up and you immediately bought into this? If his great grandfather wrote a book and the subsequent generations revised it how EXACTLY did this same apply to the Bible? Who first wrote what and who revised what? Where is the logic in his argument? Are you so shallow as to just accept ANYTHING just because it is against your opponent?

Is the Genesis of the Catholics different from that of the Protestants? How does additional number of books by one party amount to changing the rest of the collections?

IF there were anything wrong in the Bible how does that make Islam right? How does that make the CONTRADICTIONS, SCIENTIFIC ABSURDITIES, HISTORICAL ERRORS and GENERAL LACK OF ORDER of the Koran justified? A book Allah had in heaven before Mohamed was born which could not be arranged in any logical order; and that is a god? A book where a god PRAYS for his subject? A book where a god makes supplications to himself? A book that takes other books to be understood and yet claims to be CLEAR?

EMP.IREE, it is not a matter of copy and paste. Christians are NOT afraid of scrutiny of their book or attack on their position. Shadeyinka has pulled out what you think is a MAJOR BLOW against Christianity by that man. Already the loopholes are showing up. So, just because a man says something against Christianity does not make it correct. It has to stand up scrutiny. Just believing it means you are not thorough in looking at things. Maybe that is why you are in Islam.

sagenaija:
You need to understand this:
The Bible in its original languages has remained the same. So, the analogy or whatever he was trying to make is IRRELEVANT.
NO ONE has changed the original Hebrew manuscripts.
NO ONE has changed the original Greek manuscripts.

Translations may be made by different bodies at different times in history. But the originals REMAIN the same!

Sometimes it appears that one needs to repeat and repeat and repeat before you guys get a simple issue because you have bought into a propaganda that has STUCK into your heads no matter what.

Empi.ree, do you now get it?

shadeyinka:
Do the needful!
Why do you think every imam of repute has deamed it fit not to touch the ancient scripts of the bible and translate?

FEAR!


Fear of the truth!

shadeyinka:
It's a lie you want to believe anyway!
But until Muslims translated the Bible into English themselves to show us the discrepancies, distortions and lies: they should keep their mouths permanently shut!

shadeyinka:
That is exactly what contemporary Islam is preaching as if the bible is "English".

Anyone including you can decide to translate the bible from the original languages into any language you are comfortable with. No one will stop you: even as a Muslim, if you want your own translation, you have access to the original manuscript to use.

Unfortunately, as Muslims, it takes a Christian to reveal to you that over 120 English translations of the Qur'an exist AND some of them has done a few editions ( the same offence you ascribe to the bible, if you need Evidence, I'll gladly provide).

There is no tribe under the sun that doesn't have the bible in their own language. That is beautiful because everyone can interpret the plain words according to how their conscience move them from the position of KNOWLEDGE and not IGNORANCE!

Do Muslims have the Arabic Quran translated into other languages including English?
YES!
Do some of these English translations have several Editions?
YES!

So, what's your point?


Cc: Emp.iree

Enuoyan:
My major problem with the bible is the many many MAJOR REVISIONS of the original "BOOK". Just look at it this way....

My great great grand father wrote a book
Then my great grand father made some major revisions
And my grand father also made his own major revision
My father made his own major revision
And I made my own revisions

At this point in time, this book is no longer my great great grand father's book anymore, because everything he said in the book has been completely altered.

This is how I see bible as of today

Excel70:
Salam alaykum brothers and sisters in the house
What is the ruling and punishment for one who breaks his or her fast intentionally in ramadhan

true2god:
It is like anything that conform to Islamic culture and religion automatically retain 'part of religion of Abraham'. Meaning that Islam is, to Muslims, a standard for all other cultures and religion. [s]This is a supremacist mindset which fuel extremist views and often leads to terror.[/s]

The Japanese' Shintos, the Chinese Buddhist and the Indian Hindus have nothing to do with the Abrahamic faith and their religion has been in force thousands of years before Islam, Judaism and Christianity. How can these religions retain the religions of Abraham when they existing long before the Abrahamic religions?

The Abrahamic faith is the exclusive belief and views of the Judaeo-christian world; the Muslims just attached themselves to 'The Abrahamic faith' for legitimacy in the west. You said the christian world is the most indecent part of the world but you have forgotten that the Muslim world is the most bloodletting, intolerant and oppressive part of the world. The christian world, according to Muslims, is bad but Muslims are hustling to relocate to the so-called christian world in their millions and over 60 million Muslim immigrants are in western Europe now and more are still coming. The US, being geographically lucky, has fewer Muslims bcause of the distance from the Arab/Muslim world and yet Muslims want the US to open, and relax their immigration policy, their border for easy entry. If the Muslim world is so good, Muslims wont be rushing to relocate to the society they so much despise. What an irony!

Rilwayne001:
Definitely, this is not an option.



If it would be on here, it's ok. Or do i open a new one?

Empiree:
Salaam alaikum,

We shall be conducting quizzes of between 6 to 10 questions or more in this thread before Ramadan is over. However, this will be made possible if there are enough participants. In sha Allah, we are increasing number of participants to 7 this Ramadan.

Stay tuned

ikupakuti:
There is a misunderstanding here!
I knew those shildren would display their nuisance here if indulged. Thats why I didnt want to share any personal story here...one bat from no where will just open his trap & call you a liar.

@LadunaI, @empiree was right, partly though. @emekaRaj‘s affair as I came to realize later on from his subsequent posts is not just KASHF but what is called in TASSWOF as التصريف في الكون thats an authourity to interfere in the affairs of the universe. The KASHF is just a bonus. Even in WILLAYA, such position is a lofty one reserved only for the big cats, b‘cos the rigor that comes with carrying such responsibility no be here, you need to measure up. Some WALLIY are born some are made. The issue with those born like that of @emekaRaj is that they are usually disguised & they continue operating even after death.

I was with my Sheikh of blessed memory around ‘05 and an old woman begger came looking for alms, imediately he sighted her he said to me “do you have any money with you?“ I said “yes“ & gave the woman some, after she turned, he said “do you know who that is ?“, I said “no“ he said “thats Sheikh ... (ra), go and greet him properly“ I went & search everywhere but couldnt find him/her, he said “I know you‘d never find him“

They are like special agents of God just like the angels, designed & assigned to carry out specific operations & equiped with befitting powers to do so & like he had stated, the signs are usually evident from birth.

@emekaRaj, I can relate with the story of that boy.

Do you guys remembered that Quranboy bore by a christian mum in Lag around 2011?

When I saw the news then, I was like WHO IS THIS ?

I promptly got to work, using M.A & numerology to scan through his datas, what i saw blew my mind. If I were a rasta, I‘d say he is a re-incarnation of the holy prophet (s.a.w). The precision in their natal datas is just too much & other aspects too.
Sometimes God does override any of his laws to show his awesomeness.

@emekaRaj bon voyage.

true2god:
Edited for peace:

Hijab is an Arab word which also confirm the the people and race from which the fashion emanates. The Japanese women, till date, still put on their traditional dress called Kimono which covers women from head to tow (no face covering though) and they never make a noise about it or try to forcefully culturally export it to other part of the world as an instruction from their Shinto God.

Every race, from time immemorial, have a peculiar dress pattern that appeal to their environment and culture. Arabian land is sandy and windy and nature makes it compulsory for their men and women to cover their hair so that winds don't carry sands into their hair and at times eyes. And this has always been the practice hundreds of years before Islam; it is part of Arabian culture among the pagans, Jews and Christian women in the Arabia.

The issue we now have is the appropriation of Arabic culture into Islamic culture which makes it look as if hijab is an Islamic dressing. Go and study the origin of the 'hijab fashion'. The problem the modern world has with hijab is its use for identity politics among the Muslim ummah all over the world. This identity politics, using the hijab, was not available as at 10years ago; it is a new trend which seems to have been agreed upon my modern Muslim. Hence all over the world it is always the official dress codes against the Islamic hijab. Here in Nigeria, it is the school uniform against the Islamic hijab. In France and Germany, it is the Islamic hijab against the schools and the larger society.

The modern hijab has nothing to do with religion but identity politics for easy identification of Muslims women from the kafir women. In Iran and Saudi Arabia many women are now in jail for failing to put on their hijab. Hijab in these countries are not by choice but by force.

true2god:
The Torah and the Injil are also products of medieval Jewish society. If I say medieval, I don't mean to say the books are bad because it seems you have already conditioned your mind to stereotype anything the word 'medivial' is attached to, and you see it as an insult to use the words 'medieval' and 'quran' in the same sentence. I believe you are mature and equally have a good grasp of what I mean but chose to play into Islamic gallery. We sometimes hate hearing or telling ourselves the truth.

aadoiza:
Yeah brother. Make I dey low key dey learn from the answers provided on this. Empi.ree, light on this please.

aadoiza:
C'mon, man. Don't tell me you chickened out. Wetin we go come do na.

Rilwayne001:
@Em.piree

https://www.nairaland.com/3520137/historically-analyzing-crucifixtion-resurrection-claim

This^^ dealt with the issue too. They've all shy away from it.

But then I must confess that you really had time to go in circle with this guy. He's obviously a time waster. Lol

Rilwayne001:
@Emp.iree

https://www.nairaland.com/3520137/historically-analyzing-crucifixtion-resurrection-claim

This^^ dealt with the issue too. They've all shy away from it.

But then I must confess that you really had time to go in circle with this guy. He's obviously a time waster. Lol

shadeyinka:
You don't need to be abusive!
Islam accused Christians!

Simple question was asked Islam!

Islam couldn't answer or had no answer!

Yet Islam is angry that her accusation was even contended against!

Even in Islam, accusation of Adultery required at least two other witnesses for the accusation to stand. You remember the hadith about those who accused Aisha of Adultery? What was their punishment? Even Islam takes false accusations grievously!

true2god:
The Quran, the hadith and the seerah are products of medieval Arab society.

sagenaija:
Your answer 2 simply shows that you are clearly unable to respond appropriately.

You can see the loopholes in the Koran but you are UNWILLING to admit that they are there.

Islam never talked in some details about any other religion as it did about that of the Jews and Christians. Yet it couldn't give enough detail to prove its point against a CRITICAL issue in Christianity. Doesn't that sound strange even to you?

You Moslems love to talk about 'witnesses' and now that you're asked about witnesses to this 'miracle' of Allah you can't provide any.

shadeyinka:
Unfortunately still, it doesn't solve the problem of "In whose presence" the miracle took place. Even if Jesus did not die, and he was taken bro heaven bodily the Question of "in whose presence?" Is still very valid.

1. If Jesus was taken to heaven in the presence of his Disciples , how come none of them seems to be aware of it. All the 11 remaining apostles but one died very violent deaths proclaiming that Jesus died, was buried, rose up from the dead and they even saw him and touched him.
2. If Jesus was taken to heaven without the knowledge of the disciples , then Allah created a new "polytheism" called Christianity by Himself. It simply means that the almighty Allah decieved not only the Jews and Romans but Mary, the Apostles and all the Disciples.

If I accused you of Murder or Stealing in the presence of ALL. And your people asked me these questions

1. Do you really think shadeyinka kill this woman?
And I answered in the affirmative: Yes, shadeyinka killed the woman!
2. How did shadeyinka kill the woman and who else knows about the murder? And I reply: The Question is IRRELEVANT to me!

How can anyone determine your guilt by the phrase irrelevant!
If I can't describe how you murdered the woman and I can't present any proof, then I should be prosecuted for lying against you.

By the way:
There is no Christianity without the Death and Resurrection of Christ.[/b]