₦airaland Forum

all4naija: The reason why Africans are looked down on is because of such petty mindset. If you cannot see the importance of diversifying the economy and depending on a single commodity that is limited then you simply can't figure out the importance of this argument.

It surprises me to see how much Nigeria has produced and export in the oil/gas sector without nothing to show for it. There is no diversity in the Nigerian economy. I think people are over-exaggerating the percentage of contribution of Agriculture to the GDP of Nigeria in relationship to oil and gas.

Perhaps the reason is simple comprehension. You should review the part of my statement in bold:

So stop with the circular arguments. Let me summarize both sides in one cohesive statement "oil, though less than 20 %? of the GDP is important because it's essentially the major source of income for our lazy-Bottom government officials." And government, no matter how inept, is essential to any country in this day and age. In other words, if the government, by some miracle, gets it's corrupt head out of its corrupt *ss, and manages to diversify, oil will become less relevant.

Capisce?

Wow, such repetitive arguments

- According to prevailing statistics, agriculture contributes more to the economy of Nigeria than oil. For those who disagree POST YOUR SOURCES, because you haven't yet.

However,

- Oil contributes more to development since it is the major source of resource for the government (see the CIA factbook). Yes, even the miniscule development we get from our corrupt, incompetent government. So YOU ARE ALL essentially correct. We do depend on oil, as well as agriculture and retail. If the latter two were to disappear tomorrow, we would be in trouble as well. Oil won't be coming to our rescue. But, why are we arguing over the improbable? None of these commodities are going to disappear suddenly - except if there is a nuclear holocaust or something - but then, we would be screwed anyway.

So stop with the circular arguments. Let me summarize both sides in one cohesive statement "oil, though less than 20 %? of the GDP is important because it's essentially the major source of income for our lazy-ass government officials." And government, no matter how inept, is essential to any country in this day and age. In other words, if the government, by some miracle, gets it's corrupt head out of its corrupt *ss, and manages to diversify, oil will become less relevant.

Ok?

Thanks for the pics - had no idea Enugu was that developed. Of course, "developed" is a relative term. I'll start to clap only when I see enough working industries to keep unemployment low, no trash on the streets, and of course - less mansions and more cooperation amongst the people especially the wealthy and the less fortunate. It's not acceptable for people to point to big houses as signs of development; sign of wealth, yes, but development? With no running water, constant power or proper garbage disposal? How many of those mansions have rat infestations? How many rooms in them have furniture covered with dust?

People can help themselves; stop waiting around for the government; you can pull your own resources together. You can build a simple mud home from resources around you instead of living in a shack; you can NOT have multiple children when you can barely afford one; you can construct simple dugouts to divert water from streams and pass them through sand and silt for purification....you can do a LOT to help yourself even if you're poor.

That aside - again, great pics: shows that some steps forward have been taken. Can all this be maintained?

Your approach assumes that the subsidy is the only avenue for corruption in the country. If corruption isn't battled, what do you think will happen to the money "saved" by removing the subsidy?

Politics aside, I don't understand how difficult it is to personally manage a budget - the subsidy budget - if you start by organizing the process properly.

ubandire: I have read thru the report and must admit that it is as revealing as it is mind boggling. I commend the House of Reps for instituting a probe into our subsidy regime. A lot of corruption and inefficiencies abound in the system. There is need for an overhaul and this brings me to the thinking once again that we may have gotten it wrong by opposing the withdrawal of subsidy in January. We may have gooffed. Increasinly, it's becoming obvious that the more we try to make pretences that we can eliminate corruption overnight, the more we are consumed by corruption. I therefore subscribe to the argument that the easiest way to fight corruption is to remove the source of corruption from the public sector and hand it over to the private sector. If there's anything which reinforces the need for this approach, it is the recent $600,000 bribery scandal involving the chairman of the subsidy probe himself. Suddenly, the hunter has become the hunted. Those who went to eliminate corruption in the corrupt ridden subsidy regime have found themselves nurturing the very evil they set out to eliminate. I am not trying to preempt the guilt of Farouk lawan (more so when the relevant anti graft agencies are yet to establish a prima facile case of corruption against him) but the recent scandal,even if [i][/i][font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]it's halftruth, remains a clear indication that the management of subsidy will indeed be a major challenge in NIgeria. This brings me to one of the planks upon which the withdrawal of subsidy was rested. I recall vividly that during the subsidy debate, the cbn governor lamido sanusi argued that the best way to eliminate corruption in the oil sectot is to stop subsidy itself. I didn't agree with him then. I held the view that govt must take certain stringent measures to expose those behind the corruption in the oil sector but recent events have forced me into a rethink. Let's face facts. The corruption in the oil sector is complex, endemic, scientific, technical, and has a corporate existence in NNPC. Even if u sack and replace all the present players in the industry(which is practically impossible) the new set of NIgerians will still abuse the system to their advantage. I have listened to several calls for the president to enforce the probe panel report. Much as I admit that this govt must be aggressive in its fight against corruption, but that is not a solution to the problem. Let's assume that GEJ heeded the calls from some society groups that Deziani Madueke should be sacked on account of the Farouk lawan report without a proper review as the Miinister of Justice advocated. Wouldn't it have been an error of judgement by the president given the fresh scandals rocking the probe panel itself? As it stands now, the subsidy probe report is already tainted either rightly or wrongly. Farouk has a lot of questions to answer in order to restore credibility to his report. We must know why he decided to visit otedola inspite of a general committment by committee members not to visit any one involved in the probe. We must also need to know why it took him so long(almost 4 months) to tell us that he was just playing along. We must also like to know why he failed to compel the appearance of notable Northern stakeholders in the petroleum industry like Barkindo, Rilwanu lukman etc. There is so much politics than meets the ordinary eye in all of these. There are several rumors and counter rumours that some Northern leaders who are perennial beneficiaries of the corruption in the oil sector can't wait to see the back of Dieziani. While others claim that under her watch, we have witnessed high level of oil theft and corruption. Whichever side one chooses to believe, the truth is that there's need for us to divest govt of substantial control of management of our oil resources. That is the essence of deregulation and it begins with the removal of subsidy. If there's no subsidy, there won't be any mismanagement that will warrant a probe and the illegal figures being bandied around as subsidy claims. We won't need to wake up to the sad details of how the 888 billion earmarked for subsidy funds for 2012 fiscal year has been exhausted by June. We will be saved from this drama where people will grandstand about their credibility in the afternoon and go back at night to do worse. Some how i am being tempted to arrive at the irresistible conclusion that the same cabal are behind our woes. They re the ones who sponsor protests against subsidy removal. They re still the ones who instigate probes and appear before them.They re the ones who still influence the outcome with their bribes. They re the ones who will compromise you and still embarrass you in the public. They are the ones who will still frustrate the diligent prosecution of the compromised who govt decides to take to court. so the whole scenario leaves us with a vicious circle. This is not to say that the cabal is invincible and cannot be dealth with. In all fairness to the present govt, they had the boldness to deal with them by withdrawing subsidy in January. But they fought back and returned through our ignorance. Now we may have to grapple with the harsh reality of continuous corruption in the name of subsidy regime.

Wow - there's always an excuse when it is in the Bible? Because these days - if someone married his half-sister, Christians would simply say - ah, he's just human....but let me guess, it was different then because it was a reflection of Abraham's time....wait - I thought God was eternal? Looks like he keeps changing his level of morality. The man he allegedly gave the most wisdom was a shameless polygamist and man-LovePeddler. Over 1,000 women. WTF.

Oh, and when is it acceptable to EVER kill children? But that's the Old Testament, right? Just a history of the Jews - God was entirely absent, right?

I'm done with this conversation. Christians are irrational - there are some things that are simply not acceptable, neither can they be explained away. They are PROOF that that moralistic superbeing overseeing the actions of the Jews is just that - a myth...or really really really bad at his job.

Ah - another atheist in the house.

You know one of the reasons I turned from organized religion? Because of the behaviour of you Christians. You say one thing and do another. Yes, the majority of Southern Nigerians are Christian - they crowd the churches every Sunday, they pay their tithes, they quote the Bible, they bless those who curse them online and yet..yet... Can I leave my door unlocked in Nigeria? No. In fact, I have to live inside high walls covered with broken glass or electrical wiring. Can I expect the government (filled with Christians no doubt) to do their jobs - create industry, protect their citizens? Or are they in there to loot the country dry - but they believe in God.....Can I walk into a place of worship as I am or do I have to dress in my finest wear - who am I showing off for? God or all you Christians. Who am I showing off for when I announce what I'm giving to the church? God or all you Christians? When I ignore the poor on my street while donating wads to the church to fatten pastors and priests? They say most husbands cheat - but they believe in God. Is the average Southern Nigerian polite, kind, humble? But the average Southern Nigerian is Christian.

Was it not the pope himself in the 1400s that branded blacks as inferior and deserving of slavery? The man that is supposed to be closest to God here on earth.

So Christians, by your behavior as a whole, you deny the existence of God - you can blame yourselves for the increasing levels of atheism.

Agreed that what has been happening has happened before GEJ. What about the abrupt removal of the fuel subsidy? Has that happened in recent years (a yes or no would suffice). I'm willing to give everyone the benefit of a doubt but that was simply unacceptable and shows a lack of ANYTHING required to make a good president to a country like Nigeria.

vinceobe: This is a useless post. What has so happened during GEJ time that has not happened before. We have had coups, plane crashes, wars, tribal battles, religions wars, ete etc, before. Are you new in Nigeria. Did all these problems start today? You people have done all you can to undermine GEJ Presidency. You failed election and you vowed that GEJ would never have a peaceful government. Remember it is what you sow you will reap. Look back to 1960, it has been like this. We will never give our Head of State or President the chance to succeed. When Obasanjo come on board, some reactionary elements started Sharia to undermine the government. They write useless posts and paint unreal positions. Why do you not look at the positive things that have happened instead of dwelling on the negatives. UK had IRA rebels problems, US had and is till having terrorism threats from Alkada and others, Isreal had Palistinians problems up till now, Italy has mafiaso and drugs problems, Uganda has Northern Rebel problems, Zimbabwe had sit-titism and serious economic problems. Ghana once had serious economic and leadership problems, The list is endless. They all struggled and got out of the water and some are still struggling to solve the problems. There is no country in the world now that does not have one problem or the other, always caused by reactionary people of your ilks, who will never dwell on the positive but on the negative. Even if things are moving, they say they are not moving. As far as I am concerned, no past Nigerian head of state or Presidnet never had problems with die hard critics like you who put stumbling blocks on the way of success. The earlier you people repent, the better for this country. Otherwise, if even Jesus Christ comes to rule Nigeria, people like you will still see otherwise.

RIP. After the morning period, will he use his position to do something about the sorry state of local aviation and/or local health care?

bukatyne: dear, we don't interprete d Bible according to new cultures else we would be supporting gay marriages and other things. like i said earlier, reading d Bible and understandin it is every important. a lot of us read n don't understand while some don't read at al. the Bible is not to be read as a story book. when reading, it is always best to ask 'Father y did this happen?', 'what re U trying to tell us?' etc. but u can't ask that witout God been ur Father.

Regarding gay marriage - give it another generation or two. Last time I checked, there was resistance by Christians and the like on every civil rights progress. BTW, I grew up in a Christian household, so I have read the Bible myself more than a few times. The difference between me and you is that I don't read the Bible assuming its the divine word of God since that suspends any logical reasoning.

My 50 cents. I'm of the opinion that those pointing squarely to the leaders simply don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Agreed that we're more likely to commit a crime if we know we can get away with it - that doesn't make it a viable excuse ESPECIALLY if we then turn around and complain about it. So many people have already given examples. Here are more: the SAME people that throw garbage from their cars are the SAME people that complain about how filthy the streets are! The SAME people that pay their domestic servants a pittance and owe them while they buy fancy clothing are the SAME people that complain about how they're treated at work and how much they're paid. Would politicians steal with impunity if people shunned them for the wealth they've stolen? Instead Nigerians grovel at their feet for a piece of that pie. Either revel in the decadence that is Nigeria and all it's ills which YOU, yes YOU contribute to or take the FIRST steps to be that good citizen you want your leaders to be - yeah there will be sacrifices but when isn't there for a good cause? (You know your leaders make the same excuses, right? Like - how can I fight corruption when the senate, the judges etc are all corrupt. It has to start SOMEWHERE)

Here are some concrete things we can do with the power of the internet. For those who asked for the gems of society, we already have notable examples of good Nigerians. I'm up for starting a petition on voting one or more in for 2015 perhaps by having them start their own party? As for the average Nigerian citizen, we can start a pledge on facebook where we list the top three things we expect from each and every citizen. Something to get people talking. I'd happily sign up for it. Here are some examples 1) I will discuss business co-operatives with my family, with my neighbors, with my village (i.e. I will not be greedy)) 2) I will not throw garbage from my car, from my verandah, from my shop 3) I will use a condom after marriage (i.e. I will practice forethought and planning) 4) I will not treat ANYONE like they're beneath me; like they owe me because I'm wealthier or older or male.

As most have pointed out, I too care nothing for these criminals IF they are guilty of the crime. Therefore, the Nigerian embassy needs to ensure that they get a fair trial and inform their families (I'm not holding my breath though since most Nigerian embassies have the same level of incompetence as anything run by the Nigerian government).

I strongly believe that if you do the crime, you should pay the price, so I'm not for criminal exchanges - so they can come home and bribe their way out of jail? No thanks.

As for being desperate - perhaps if they don't have more children than they can afford, they won't resort to crime. Actually, they probably will because it's all about greed, isn't it? As another has pointed out, women also need to wise up, and stop being so damn vulnerable and gullible. Four children who all happen to be under five. Ever heard of a condom?

The debates were interesting - they've now denigrated into voicing of opinions - but they were revealing while they lasted. At Logicmind...wow...if I was offended by the bible before...yikes!

Regarding the treatment of women in the Bible - I'll have to say sexist. Bottom line - I mean the verses were pretty clear from where I'm standing. There are of course the modern day interpretations that some have now tried to pedal "no - the Bible wasn't sexist at all if you read it like this...with the inspiration of God"...I guess that inspiration didn't exist until the women's liberation movement of the last century when SECULAR law mandated that women were equal? Before this time society including Christians didn't treat women as such. Same with slavery. Not yet with war, but when we get there via secular development, I'm sure mainstream conservative Christians will find a way to re-interpret the Bible accordingly.

Face it - secular law comes up with something new and improved, and Christians try to re-inteprete the Bible to suit the new culture. Take the new green culture and environmental push. Now some Christians are re-interpreting a section of Genesis? involving Eden where God put man there to "take care of it." And as for free will - come now - like the stuttering Moses or the whale-living Jonah? Looks like God is perfectly capable of convincing people to do his will, so no I don't buy the "His hands are tied" excuse.

Bottom line - the Bible is a big book. You can get really fancy with interpretations.

Okay - I will weigh in. I'll start with saying that I'm not religious. I believe I'm not religious because I'm logical and when you apply logic to the bible (and pretty much any religious book I guess), it tends to fall apart. For example, there are some pretty morally repugnant things in the old testament (and the new one for that matter); the issue of slavery has already been brought up time and time again; there were also the massacres committed by the Isrealites. All of which were allegedly sanctioned by God?

If religious books are taught for what I believe them to be - man trying to make sense of the world around him; man subscribing to the supernatural things he didn't understand - then that's a different story. People would understand that these books are subject to errors, and improper instruction; and therefore something that can be constantly improved upon and changed. Unfortunately, a lot of religious people believe them to be the undisputable word of God.

Then there is the world around us right now - are the most religious countries the safest? the happiest? the least corrupt? Hmmm. Interestingly - you find the opposite - they appear to be the most fanatical, the most judgemental, the most toxic. There is something inherently wrong with that. Take Nigeria as a prime example. Heck, take most of Africa, the middle east, parts of Asia.

Having said that - when you do strip religion down to its basic essentials, it is primarily about love. But humans being humans corrupt everything they touch. If a drug turns 90 % of the people who take it into illogical zombies and 10 % into superheros, I would still want it banned. From what I've seen, the pros of religions are far far outweighed by its cons, at least in the life here on earth, which is all we are sure of.

Still, I don't think people should be ridiculed or insulted for what they believe in as religion does give a lot of people the strength to persevere during hardships (of course some would argue that the more people logically apply themselves, the less hardships they would have to deal with. And I agree. Take disease for example - a lot more people seem to have been saved with medicine than with prayer - with the advent of modern medicine, wasn't the last bacterial plague over a 100 years ago? (Viruses, you're next!) Can Christianity say the same?). Still, ridicule makes people defensive. There are religious people who are perfectly capable of applying themselves logically in their careers and interpersonal interactions. Let's focus on and encourage that.

I think everything that needs to be said has been said - the pessimism is called for given the conditions in the country. However, as some others have pointed out, never say never. I like that a poster made concrete statements on how he/she can make a change in a small way. It never fails to bemuse me that the same people who would complain about how filthy the streets are throw garbage from their cars willy nilly. I often feel like shouting HOW THE HECK DO YOU THINK IT GOT SO FILTHY IN THE FIRST PLACE?!!! Those that complain about not being paid regularly in turn don't pay their helps (maids, nightwatchmen, gardeners) regularly...and the list goes on. Yet, every Sunday, people crowd the churches. Why for goodness sake don't the pastors and priests preach about such things? Specifically?!!! They would be the easiest vessels for change since people look up to them. I have an idea, how about those other like minded people set up a church (goodness knows one or the other seems to pop up every few days in Nigeria)along those lines. 100 % of the contributions go back into the community. And that's another thing - as someone else has pointed out - some diasporians are ready to invest in the country, but where, what, how especially since far to many Nigerians prove themselves to be dishonest. Who would you trust to manage any venture from afar? The other thing I picked up on was the term "crumb eater." a nice negative stereotype (and no I'm not being sarcastic) used to describe those who respect and suck up to wealthy corrupt politicians and ex-politicians. Perhaps we should create and spread the use of such words as a nice dash of reverse psychology in order to shame people into behaving well. What would you call those who withhold payments from their workers? Those who throw garbage from their cars? Those who mismanage public funds? Hmmmmm

Yes you need say more - although we should agree to disagree because we obviously have different views on the topic. And no, I don't believe the West has always had a high divorce rate: do you have any data to back that up? I suspect that the divorce rates increased with the advent of feminism i.e. women learned to put their foot down and leave intractable, abusive husbands. I believe the divorce rates should decrease because the current generation of men know the score. However, I will admit that Westerners have a low tolerance threshold and don't stick around to try to work out what could be considered minor issues. Regardless, to what extent does a high divorce rate affect the standard of living of society as a whole - there is the initial financial strain on the couple, and the emotional strain on themselves and their children, but these wounds can and do heal with time - I know enough people to testify to that. And the car analogy: I think marriage is far more complicated. Perhaps more like driving down a long, narrow windy country road in the dark without a map for "as long as you both shall live" (or until you call it quits). To make it work, one person had to drive while the other navigates and they need to take turns.

As for the African mentality - is it the same mentality that makes excuses when people don't do what is expected of them: husbands, politicians, the judiciary system? Is it the same mentality that allows the proliferation of corruption? Is it the same mentality that doesn't seem to be able to wrap its head around accountability, reprimand and punishment when people fail to fulfill their responsibility? Is it the same mentality that is then the first to blame their leaders, like they would act differently in the same position; like their leaders aren't a reflection of themselves? Is it the same mentality that advocates sexism because it leads to low divorce rates (incidentally, not because the people involved are happy; take a look at the posts on the first year of marriage as a small sample) without being able to go that one step further to realize that to compete effectively in this world, you can't put artificial barriers on your people; you have to encourage everyone to be the best they can be. Is it the same mentality that keeps us underdeveloped because it seems to spit directly in the face of nation-building? Again I will opt for the higher divorce rate. And I have no issues with gay marriages - the happier the general population, the less stigma people have to deal with, the more likely they'll make good law-abiding citizens, the better for the country as a whole. The African mentality is far to short-sighted.

True. But honestly, I'd take a 52 % divorce rate and a "developed" society over a 5 %? divorce rate and underdevelopment. Last time I checked - net people migration is to the developed world not to the developing or underdeveloped. So...I guess, if given a chance, most Africans would choose the 52 % divorce rate if it comes with - longer life due to better health care, more job security, safer neighbourhoods, ability to own one's home more quickly due to the widespread availability of mortgages, financial independence, constant power, running water, cleaner air, cleaner environment active discussions on societal ills and how best to continuously improve things within the family, within the workplace, within the school, within the country as a whole; where respect is earned not owed due to status or gender or age, where scientific innovations at your fingertips; a society with a functioning government and industries where you don't have to pay on the side to get things done.

Which is not to say that Canada doesn't have it's negatives - the colonial mentality, racism, the cold (my God!), high tax rates, inefficiencies within the government, a more solitary existence....but people talk about these things, discuss it, attempt to make improvements.

And as for the divorce rate - I'm definitely interested in seeing future trends. With the current average marital age (in Canada) being about 30 where (most) people now live together before marriage and (hopefully) work out the kinks, will it be as high as those of our parents where things may have started out patriarchal but is no longer? Time will tell.

I was about to say Nigerians can be so toxic (although most (in the South) claim to be Christian (Jesus would be so proud)); thank Goodness some of the latest responses are more constructive. Truth be told, from what I've seen most Nigerian men seem to have a sense of entitlement when it comes to marriage - they expect to be the boss while having all their needs taking care of. And, apparently, most Nigerian women expect to be completely dependent financially on the man. It doesn't make for good relationships overall - perhaps that's what you're observing.

Yet there is that pressure, especially on women to marry. Which doesn't leave a lot of room to find Mr. Right (the person who compliments you best), repeating the generational cycle. I feel you. Stick to your guns - don't sell out. In the meanwhile, attempt to establish yourself financially and independently.

And here is thinking outside the box: is it possible to set up a singles discussion group in your area? Who knows, you might find like minded people i.e. people willing to discuss controversial issues openly, and it could be profitable. Good luck.

^^^^ Is it worth continuing this and denigrating this topic into a poo sling fest - no. I guess because I'm better than you. Thank you to the others for your insightful responses. I'm out.

Guitarlife: Erm erm *cough's* Why is it soooo cool for a woman to be a full house wife and soooo wrong for a man to be a full house husband? And we are talking equality of sexes? Well you know it sound's really dumb that a man should lay about in the house all day while his wife is on the go minting money but, it's ok if it was the other way round? It's because Men are the head of the home baby. No matter how hard you try to rationalize or even sensationalise it, gender equality can only exist in your head cos whenever the table's are turned y'all scream blue murder forgetting you wanna be equal. And by the way if all you're concerned with is doing the dishe's we can get you a nanny and a house help combined and for a pittance too.

Did I say I have an objection to a full house husband? A full husband takes care of the home - most Nigerian men do not even if they are home: that's my objection. If the woman becomes the financial provider, by default, the husband should carry the household tasks. But most Nigerian men think it's beneath them. Why? As for a nanny and a househelp for a pittance, 1) does that mean that he is excempt from organizing the household's finances, organizing the children's education, being the one who attends those parent-teacher conferences, dealing with homework, discipline, guidance, growing pains. Do men know all that it entails to be a house wife - obviously not since some think that there's a lot of "laying about the house;" 2) It's not okay to hire someone for a pittance. Would you want that to be one of your children? Being treated like dirt while being paid very little? Domestic workers need to be respected and at least paid the minimum wage; when we keep looking for ways to take advantage of the poor instead of working together for the greater good, is it surprise that the country isn't moving forward?

Finally, no, equality of the sexes is not all in my head. I live in a society where it is practiced daily, where couples do EVERYTHING together, and marriage is a true partnership.

Looks like the topic has been completely derailed - while people discuss the insults etc (which happens to be typical in any interaction involving large groups of people), perhaps we can assist the OP's friend without the "she should have known better angle" because that isn't a solution.

awww - how nice of you all: feeling sorry for my husband and wondering at my selfishness. I wonder if all these heartfelt words would apply if it was a woman lagging it around the house. There's plenty of time to retire; don't let him get used to staying at home - and what the frack is so wrong with men doing housework! Am sorry - your p3nis too heavy? You need both hands to hold unto it at all times if they're not holding the remote or a beer?!!! Did she say that her husband was strategizing or planning? How did you know he didn't save the 6 million by denying his kids and wife of the best - education, neighbourhood. Do they have access to that money? But most seem to assume the best of his intentions and the worst of hers. Listen - when you start attacking me personally, you're showing that you're the dumbass because you obviously can't carry a debate forward. Morons without insight. If you were the ones in charge, we'd all probably still be living in caves.

And yes, I do pat myself on the back occassionally since I am AWESOME!. If he thinks he can get s3x elsewhere - he can go marry the b3tch(es). I have no issues with divorce. And as for those who wouldn't want to marry me...thank God! If you think you can sit around on me, think again because I sure as H3ll do not sit around waiting for someone else to be responsible for my upkeep. I am an adult, not a child. If I need a vacation, I'll let my partner know: "give me two weeks, give me a month, our savings will last a while while I distress and get my act together. I'll COMMUNICATE with them - that doesn't seem to have been done at the time of the posting. Things tend to go on indefinitely when there is no time limit or planning or nagging. Since Nigerian men are apparently such delicate creatures - nag gently but make sure he knows that this cannot go on indefintely because I personally known of families were men have taken the backseat for YEARS because the woman was able to carry them financially, but they apparently still can't do housework.

jennykadry: DUH very stoopid question from a crazy poster. Mschewww

Are you not the same goat that told a woman to starve her husband of sex? were

I guess that makes you the pathetic schluck of a woman who would let some mor&n treat her like a doormat because he is the "husband." BS!

Thanks to the other responders - I really think harakiri hit it on the head. That's pretty much it without all the luvvy duvvy veil. Except, no, not all women are as calculating as you think.

I think so many marriages then fall apart because people don't really think of the ramifications of living with that one person day to day. There are compatibilites that can be worked out and there are some - abuse, cheating - that can not. But women, in particular, still hold on even though some are truly miserable (societal pressure to be the "helper," "the glue" I guess; I can't think of any other reason). You can do so much better.

I think your post was quite clear OP - interfering inlaws that want to control the wife because she's married to "their" son. She should of course call out her husband - ask him a direct question. "What do you think will eventually happen to this marriage when your family makes me feel like sh*t?" "Why do you think I'd want to bring children into this?" He needs to stand up to his mother and she needs to reduce contact with those inlaws - telephones can be ignored; there is caller ID after all, visiting can be restricted: make up some excuse. Oh wait, Nigerians don't call before they arrive. She can talk back you know. If she (the inlaw) tries to belittle you in front of visitors - call her out. In response to "I'm so much prettier than the woman my son married," how about "I'm so much nicer than my mother in law. Look at how she belittles me in front of guests. Tell me, is this the basis for a good relationship?"

I disagree - is this why women stay with men that cheat, and abusive husbands? Will you still sticking with it is a good idea after you get some STD; perhaps HIV? If you're not happy in a relationship you try to make it work depending on what is causing your unhappiness. There are some things that can be worked out and some things that cannot; somethings that are a definite crossing of the line. If you're unhappy in your relationship, don't stay just because of the "children." You don't think they sense it? You don't think they hear you sobbing at night? It's naive to think that just because there's a "mommy" and "daddy," the home is stable.

Gah - I wish the rest would stop being so hard on you. When you have to sit at home twiddling your thumbs with nothing but children for company, most sane women would wonder "what-if?" Perfectly understandable. Having said that I will then concur with the others in saying that you've made your bed (or it's been made for you), and your biggest challenge right now is convincing your husband that you'd like to carve out a career for yourself as well. Maybe he's concerned that once you start working, you won't have enough time for him and the kids. Assure him that that isn't the case.

And the bland statement that "children are a blessing from God." It irks me - children are a product of sex and fertility. Depending on their genetics and upbringing, they can grow up to be scientists, inventors, engineers or serial killers, rapists, dictators.... So some children are blessings, and some are curses. It's irrelevant. All you can do is work within your means to do the right thing by them (i.e. the right upbringing) since they're your responsibility. No more, no less.

Is he doing the cooking, cleaning and child rearing while he is home "relaxing?" If he isn't let him know that times have changed and so has the family - if you're to be the breadwinner, he should be the nurturer. Then I'm sure he'll start looking in no time.

PPS: You're also too tired to have s3x. That should also get him out of the house more quickly.

Last time I checked, if you have a child outside wedlock, you don't get thrown in jail; so it isn't illegal. Some people might look down on you - but since that makes them idiots, why should you care what they think?

I doubt it's something most actively think about. It's almost like it's part of societal's pysche - like crawling then walking as children. Except the latter two have clear advantages. Does marriage?

Thanks for the thread - reading through it, all I could think was "Are you fracking kidding me?" I feel so much better - sorry I know some of you are having a really tough time/some of you had a really tough time at the beginning but it seemed to be that for a lot of you things got "better" after the woman learned to submit - all the independence and cognizance from education, contributing to the work force...poof after marriage ....bottom line I got from this is that reality and fantasy are two very different coins. So giving the fact that I'm 1) financially stable; with my own money - I have a good job; enough to own my own home, travel occasionally, send money back home regularly (and not a pittance either), i.e. a comfortable middle class existence, and 2) have in my head where I want to get to career wise and in terms of my hobbies (creative writing, dabbled a bit into business...unsuccessfully...but I have more ideas). I'm not religious - I firmly believe that this life is the one shot we have and it's incumbent upon us to leave the world a little better than we found it; something that we probably won't achieve if marriage and children are our major goals and probably financial wealth.

And that was where I thought a relationship would help - not even marriage - just a relationship (to start with) that would help us both reach our full potential; help me apply myself more. But that's the fantasy part, isn't it.? Because so much more time might just be spent working at keeping the relationship whole. Even though I wasn't going to settle for just anyone, most people would tell you that any relationship requires work. And I was so bent of finding someone...not any more. I'll still actively try the dating scene - living in a small town in Canada and not being very social, I have to make an active effort. I know that. But from a mental perspective...it's no longer "I have to find someone compatible." If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, I can carry my own weight - and there are so many opportunities out there to reach all of my goals without a partner. Woooohoooooo. I am single and I will revel in it! And if my mother doesn't like it... too bad. It's my life. Recognize!

Maybe I should start another thread - why do people get married/ I doubt it's something most actively think about. It's almost like it's part of societal's pysche - like crawling then walking. Except the latter two have clear advantages. Does marriage? I'm just asking.

Thank you, Ako, and the others with a similar mentality. I had such a bitter taste in my mouth at some of the negativity I read hear. God forbid! Why should I get pissed off, when Africa is shown as a shit hole in the West, when Africans themselves think that way about their own countries (if the Nigerians here are anything to go by)?

Other people have already pointed this out, but do you guys really think that whining in an of itself will accomplish anything without action? Honestly. Thank God that there are people out there like myselfm like Ako and the rest, who turn challenge into an opportunity. Those who sit back and think - no power; why don't we get business donors together, set-up a power plant small enough to supply constant electricity to a small section of a city and privatize that? Of course, said person has to be wealthy to start with. But whatever about the poorer individual who starts a micro-credit loan company with $200? What about the person who starts a fish farm with just a few spawns, working at it long enought to employ people; the person who set-ups a cleaning agency with just a cell phone and word of mouth advert?

The rest of you lot are just pathetic whiners. Whine whine whine. I'm not saying don't complain, feel hurt and angry about what could be. But do that AND something tangible. Don't just whine!

And as for those wishing for recolonization and calling for whites to take over, so you're saying you're inferior, stupid, retarded. Only good for slavery? Well, you might be, but I'm not! Please, please, please, don't represent the majority of nigerians. because if you are the status quo, we really are in deep doo doo.