₦airaland Forum

Ghost01: FOLYKAZE: What do you understand by "atheism"?

Which kind game be this abeg o. . . .

Well, I will befine atheism as the disbelieve in the existence of God/deity.



I think where I disagree with others lie in the definition of God/deity.

If I could ask you also, If God is defined as theatre gallery, natural entities and mind. . . . .does it make sense for an atheist to disbelieve in this God?

If I could define Deity or god as infuencial person, will it make sense disbelieving in the existence of this God?

And note, believe in the existence of God/deity defined as a person, natural entity and theatre gallery. . . . .makes an atheist no more an atheist because this negate their stance.

For the game, answer those two questions and pls add your suggestion

macof: It's funny how the guy asked for objective testing, and ran away when I faced him
Noisemakers, even the worlds leading scientists would never say a stone doesn't react like generalshepherd

What would you have to do with hateist who just hate everything about God, religion and spirituality. What baffles me most is how someone can claim to disbelieve in God but can not define what God is. The other one on another thread find it hard to define what superntural is, yet you see them shouting illogicallity to hell.
How can someone create a thread about consciousness and death, and that very person do not know what consciousness and being living or alive is not to go into the extent of death?

And pls do not challenge them. . . . . .we know very well that coward changing his moniker like clothes called Logicboy aka TheBigUrban2 who is scared of Osanyin but can come online to tell us how Osanyin is a doll. How can a matured man get scared of a doll?

Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.


The bolded describe them very well. . . .they are bunch of noisemakers

GeneralShepherd: I stopped reading at 'conciousness is a state of being conscious '.

And that is how dictionary put it.

Are you the one that formed the word? So how can you choose your own meaning created out of your head to a word that doesnt originate from you?

Enjoy. . . .http://i.word.com/idictionary/consciousness and stick to the 'lalalal' you think consciousness is.

GeneralShepherd: I really don't know what to say to a foolish statement claiming that a stone is conscious and you are derailing this thread!

Stop crying foul. . . . .


How can you talk of after-biological death of consciousness when you dont know what being conscious and consciousness is?

You started a thread about death when you dont know what a life is.

It just seem you guys just create a thread ignorantly only to talk ill of religion belief.




Oga. . . . .consciousness is a state of being conscious.


Conscious is aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.




Is stone not responding or reacting to heat? How can you respond or react to something without being aware of it?

If stone is not aware of it body temperature, it can not react to it. Therefore, it is conscious.


The second definition of conscious is being active. . . . .

A stone is made up of energy. . . . .have you heard of case where energy is being inactive?

Therefore, a stone is conscious.





Beat that!

TheBigUrban2: Guy, shift.


I dont have time for pseudoscientific pseudointellectuals.

Oga answer this simple question. . . .stop making yourself a coward.



Can there be a reaction without awareness?

TheBigUrban2: Consciousness is a state of awareness.

Being conscious is far more than reacting to stimuli. Being self aware requires voluntary actions. A freshly dead body can react to stimuli eg, a snake head biting a finger put in the mouth even after the body has been severed.



A stone isnt self aware. A tree is. They bend to sunlight and some even eat insects.

Is self awareness not consciousness?

GeneralShepherd: Annony, I really don't agree that a stone is conscious. Why? because a stone can and will never exhibit the characteristics of a living thing.

A non-living thing can never be conscious

Oga; do some learning here https://www.nairaland.com/1460798/universe-conscious .

And how can you provide evidence that Cat has a mind?

macof: I never even mentioned egungun. Because doing that might seem too Yoruba-centric. But if u so interested in the technology of egungun I am nt the person to discuss that with. There are experts I could link you up with only if you are humble enough to actually take it serious and undergo your objective testing

is there evidence for planets outside our galaxy? that doesn't stop scientists from looking for them.
If scientists were like you they would have said "there's no evidence, it doesn't exist, this world we see with our eyes right around us is the only thing that exist"
science would be nothing today without search - which is among the baics of spirituality

The structure of mars was known to be made up of Metals, they named it after a Roman God of metals and wars

Helium was found to be the reason for the heat and colour of the sun they named it After the Greek God of sunlight

And you think ancient spiritualities got nothing to offer??

All that science would ever find evidence to, has been told by the ancients.

Even the far away milky way and Orion stars was known by the dogon people of Mali long before your evidence was found by science.

The name Orion was given by ancient greeks it wasn't science until modern scientists said they found evidence.

so why attack everything ancient when modern has never posed to prove ancient wrong??

Spirituality is a profound source of science bro, you cannot understand the universe without following the basics of spirituality


Btw my questions were; have you have seen a dinosaur fossil, have u ever observed a genus evolve? Have you ever observed a bang of photons?

You are basically believing what you have read but there's a reason you believe it isn't there?

I throway salute my brother. . . You have it all.

Abeg do not waste your time directing Mazaje to any Awo. . . .he is unserious type that only comes online to bark.

mazaje: Ok, Fair enough, I can agree with some of what you have said. . .I just want people to be clear when they say things and you have been able to do that. . .

what exactly is it you are agreeing to here that I havent said?

And stop lying, there is no way you can be clear on a subject when your only intention is negation of everything folykaze says.

mazaje: What am I do to with this fictitious myth?. . .

what do you have to say about this?

"""""""His ultimate goal is to transfer a person’s mind or consciousness from a living brain into a machine with that its personality and memories intact.

The so called “Cyborg” will have no physical form, and exist in a network similar to the Internet and be able to travel at the speed of light all over the Earth, or even into the space.""""""

you gon call it fictitious truth because it projected by scientists?



Indeed, yall atheists are noisemakers

mazaje: So because some scientist are working to see if something is possible means it;s a factual reality?. . .Their work remains a plan and an idea they believe is workable, so far they have failed to show that is it real and workable. . .So fail. . .So babalawo speaks to the people that are dead. eh?. . .What am I to do with all these nonsense?. . .Christians go to heaven see Jesus their dead relatives and come back, some have also claimed to have reincarnated. . .After all the dailama is a reincarnated god according to him and people that believe in him. . .I don't have time for all these superstitions and endless mythology. . .

why would you have time when you are close minded?

Did you take your time to read the link of detailing the project? Didnt you see there facet of the project already existing? Didnt you see on the page the time frame and period the project would be completed?

If you want to deny something, do it with sense and not this tactful ways of throwing something out of the window. This is science project and not spirituality. The known fact is that science is a million miles away from spirituality. All the inventions and discovery today rest on the shoulder of ancient spirituality. All the technologies today simply is the remouldling of anciet spiritual model. If there is something new science brings on board and have no traces in the ancient time, you can let us have the list here.

Mind or call it consciousness would be uploaded on internet server . . . .just like the ancient Yoruba people have invented there own model of accessing consciousness of both the dead and the living through spiritual mode. Egungun and Oro has been and will always be. Sit your azz behind your computer and shout to hell how it is fictitious while your mate in russia are working tireless on bringing spirituality into science world.

mazaje: Projecting it means its true. . .if only you know how many scientist have projected many things and abandoned them. . .it is something scientist do constantly. . Project things and abandon them when the evidence is lacking. . .Projecting something means noting. . .It is you own yoruba spiritual delusion that is something eh?. . .

How far man?

Oro and Egungun is very common in Yoruba society. . .though I agree it more of festive today but the real deal is with those that holds the esoteric knowledge.


Did you even care to read the post I linked concerning the russian billionaires?

Itskov’s first highly ambitious goal, called Avatar A, involves a person controlling a robotic human replica through a brain-machine interface (BMI), a technology that already exists.

The project has undergone some success and with time, other facet of the project would be concluded. This is science and not spirituality. . . .

Other facet would drill into:

His ultimate goal is to transfer a person’s mind or consciousness from a living brain into a machine with that its personality and memories intact.

The so called “Cyborg” will have no physical form, and exist in a network similar to the Internet and be able to travel at the speed of light all over the Earth, or even into the space.


This is of what similar to Yoruba Egungun and Oro. . . . . . .it has no physical; and if that is needed, the consciousness would be invoke on any voluntares.



This is science project. . . . .I actually know you dont like it but that is the fact. It has been in our system thousands of years ago. . . .for evidence, meet a babalawo on that.

*dont just need to point direction to someone that only TALK

mazaje: What am I do to with this fictitious myth?. . .

Dmitry Itskov is projecting it

and a lazy as s sites behing his computer only to talk ill about it.





Your own type of atheism is simply. . . . . . .noisemaker.

mazaje: You keep lying and making things up. .What is the mind and how does it survive death?. . .How does the mind survive when the brain is dead. . .

Stop asking me kiddie question. . .there is nowhere I told you that I know all.

Can you pls direct your question to Dmitry Itskov, and his team who are working tireless on how to download mind on cyberspace? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2322703/Want-live-forever-Russian-billionaire-reveals-real-life-avatar-plan--says-upload-brain-hologram-immortal-2045.html ?


There is a facebook page set aside for the mission. . .there is also a designated site. . . . .where you can reach them from.


If you see a babalawo, ask him to help me on communicating with your ancestors.

There your answer lies

mazaje: Pls can you expound on the Egungun. . .

Lol

copied from Ayeakamara

"the believe that the soul of the departed fathers, mothers, grand-parents and great-grand–parents are never far away and they are available to protect, love, guide, and guard the other members of the family who are still having a physical existence in creation. We use creation in this context, because of the fact that the physical world – is the tangible and the material world, while the spiritual world is the expansive world, the real world where the real things take place before they appear in the material world. The spiritual world precedes the physical world, and it is the world of realities-THE SPIRITUAL WORLD.

These two worlds are just one continuum entity within the framework of universal existence of things or universal network."

Through Egungun/Oro, People access the mind of the dead ancestors. They sometime invoke this mind on someone and communicate directly OR they can access it through Ikin divination.

The essence is for communicating with the Mind, accessing some info among others from the dead ancestors.




It is now part of festive in Yoruba system

mazaje: This is why I keep saying that you are very deluded. . .This topic is specifically about human consciousness but in your normal deluded ways you want to push it into something else. . .

Why are you sounding harsh? Is there something wrong with you?

Consciousness does not specifically applies to Human only. This is the reason I always ask you to widen your mendula when dealing with me.

Some spirituality sees consciousness in everything. Panpsychism as it is known sees consciousness in stone and trees/plants. Even your comrade Ray which you went on rampage liking his post questioned bacteria consciousness. . . . .you could not shout on him but you can come after me and bark. . . . .

When we talk about consciousness, survival after death. . . . . .human should not be the only case study.

As it is, you dont even know what human consciousness is. . . .

mazaje: I gave you the definition of human consciousness but in your normal deluded ways you deny it and want to consciousness to go by you own definition. . .

The definition you provided is of sentience and not consciousness. Sentience has to do with brain. . . Human consciousness has to do with self.

Sorry I have helped you with definition. . . . .

But you havent provided any definition here. . . .the crap you provided is sentience confused as consciousness. . . . Both does not correlate.

mazaje: Does a stone respond to anything around it?. . .If i hit a touch or pour something on a stone will it respond the way a human would?. . .Are you saying a stone is aware of its environment?. . .Can you show how?. . .

What sort of childish question is this? So you dont know stones react to it natural environment? You dont know stone respond to it surrounding and external forces?

Simple google search would help you. . . . .or kindly go the street, pick a stone and do whatever you can on it. . . .observe if it react or not.

No time for kiddie questions

mazaje: I have already giving you the definition of human consciousness and that is what this topic is all about. . .Your delusions will not allow you to accept it, this topic is not about plants if you want to start a topic about plants go open one., . .

You could have make lot of sense if you've done away with this baseless tantrum of yours. Mr, stop attacking me. . . . .cant you just have your say and reply?


You did not define consciousness. . . . .stop lying.

Plants are living entities.
Plants are going to die
Plants are conscious

now tell me how using plant as case study is wrong.

Are you different from plants and animals?

mazaje: Does human consciousness survive when the brain and the entire body does?. . .

You havent tell me what human consciousness is. . .. . .what you defined is sentience and nothing more.

I even helped you in defining what consciousness is. . . .I defined every words to show you I know what I am saying. . . .why cant you address it rather than dodging all the time?


What is human consciousness? How can you separate this from sentience and awareness?

We are discussing human consciousness and death survival like you agree, can you before proceeding to death tell us what life is?

mazaje: By the way the fact that plants respond to stimuli does not make them conscious like humans. . .

Where did I say plants are conscious like human?

Consciousness is define as state of being conscious.

Conscious is defined as being aware and responding to ones surroundings OR being aware and reacting.

You mentioned above that plant respond. . . . Responsiveness is prompted by awareness. You can not respond to or react to something you are not aware of.

Therefore, plant is conscious.

mazaje: So chemicals that react to each other are conscious of each other?. . .Your delusions is reacting new lows. . .Do you know what a chemical reaction is?. . .

There can never be reaction without awareness. . . . .

How your logic fails to touch here baffles me.

Combination of awareness and reaction OR responsiveness is CONSCIOUSNESS.


And can you tell me how a chemical is not aware of other chemical before reacting to it.

mazaje: The link it self specifically used the word maybe on the premise of the thesis leaving the entire hypothesis in the realm of assumption. . .I did not write it, the person that did clearly left the hypothesis in the realm of assumption, by the way as you noted it has nothing to do with death so I wonder why you brought it up. . .I have already given you the definition of human consciousness, if you want to go around talking about things that are off topic then go create a separate thread, this topic is about human consciousness and whether it survives when the human body dies. . .Again does human consciousnesses survive the death of the entire body?. ..

What you refer to as human consciousness is nothing more than sentience. As it is, if human consciousness define as sentience, it cannot survive death but the center of all cognition which is MIND can of course survive death.


The Russian scientists are working tirelessly on who they can save mind after the body is dead on a cyber space. . . . . . .not withstanding, it is been done in Yoruba spirituality as Egungun.

mazaje: What do you mean by there is nothing like death?. . .even the link you posted seems to be an assumption, it doesn't even go that far. . .The link uses words like maybe. . .

As we research smaller and smaller units of matter, it has became clear to some that there is perhaps no final unit waiting to be discovered but a fundamental unity to everything. Physicist David Bohm, whose work is described in Michael Talbot’s the Holographic Universe, calls the fundamental unity at the end of all matter the implicate order. David Wilcock makes reference to the Source Field.

It can best be said to be a speculative hypothesis. . .From the link. .Besides its not even agreed by all but some. . .



What am I to do with your Yoruba mythology?. . .Does human consciousness continue when you die?. . Will you be fully conscious when you die?. . .Where is the evidence for this?. . .

If a link is not supporting your view, it is then assumption. How do you expect every one to accept the sane thing?

Even the link is not about death, it is about the illusion of separation.


Biological death is not he end of activeness. . . .simple like ABC.


Oga tell me what consciousness is. . . . .then I can tell if it survive death.

mazaje: Here. . .



he said consciousness is one of the energies reacting in our bodies. . .

He might mean something else. . ..

Ori is the reflective spark of consciousness. . . . .

mazaje: Stone consciousness?. . .How is a stone conscious?. . . Human consciousness is the or state of awareness, self awareness or of being aware of an external object or something within oneself. . . Is a stone aware of itself and other things around it?. . .

We are discussing about consciousness and you are here forcing human consciousness into the topic as if consciousness is of specific to human alone. This is the reason why I asked you if we can also talk about stone consciousness too.

Not to talk much, stone is conscious. . . .depending on how you define what consciousness is.

And going by your definition in bold, how can you tell that stone is not aware of it environment?

mazaje: By bodily death you know very well that I mean the whole body, not the nonsense you are trying to say here. . .Does human consciousness survive when the whole body and brain is dead?. . . Consciousness is a function of the brain chemical activities and without the brain you can't be conscious, so again does consciousness survive when the brain is dead?. . .

Probably you mean sentience with the bold. Ya, I understand it is synonymous to sentience but it is not the same thing as consciousness. This is the reason I asked you to define comprehensively what consciousness is.

I cant fathom why you are dodging this question.

mazaje: Yes, when you die the energy and how it flows is changed, it converts and disintegrates into something else that is not you. . .You become part of the soil, if you die in the oceans for example over time you turn into crude oil. . .Again how does consciousness survive when the brain and the whole body is dead?. . .

You are still not getting it. . . .until you define what consciousness is, everyother thing you write wont have any meaning.



Let me help with my dico. .

- it is a state of being conscious.

Conscious is:


- aware of and responding to one's surrounding.

- awareness and reaction.

Awareness:


knowing that something exists, or having knowledge or experience of a particular thing.




How can plant respond or react to sunlight if it is not aware of it? When a plant is wounded, its body immediately kicks into protection mode, how does this happen if it not aware of it surrounding prompting to it reaction? Mimosa pudica respond to touch from it surrounding. . . . .how can this happen if it does not have awareness of touch? Venus flytrap instantaneous response touch and the way the plant snapped its trap shut around an insect indicated the presence of awareness and sentience. . . . .or how can the plant set trap and capture insect without have sense of touch or ability of awareness and responds to it surrounding?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-plants-think-daniel-chamovitz/

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/062208/do-plants-have-brains

Do have a read at those two links

Can we agree plant is conscious?


Takes reation to everything we have around. Things responding to something in a particular way can be said to be reacting to it surroundings which it must be aware of.

A chemical reaction for example. One chemical would react to another in it surrounding because it aware of the properties of the other chemical.

How can vingar react to soda if they aint aware of each other properties?

If being conscious is responding to one surroundings, chemicals and every other thing are conscious because they respond to their surroundings. . .and especially externa objects.

NB: you cannot react to something you are not aware of.

In short, everything is conscious.



My take

AbdulSleek: I see, you belong to folykaze's school of crazy philosophy on energy.


Life and energy are two different things.


please, answer the question- can God kill himself?

Ode. . . .

Can you destroy energy?

mazaje: If consiousness is a form of energy as you say and the body dies then the energy changes into something else that is not consiousness. . .just as when you die your body forms part of the soil which is not you as a human being. . .

Where he take tell you consciousness is energy?

mazaje: There is nothing like death according to your delusions? . . .what am I to do with your delusions?. . .so people do not die but are separated, eh?. . .Separated from what? I don't have time for your constant reinvention and delusions. .

Where did I say death is separation?

You have to calm down when you are dealing with me. . . . .most essentially, save your emotions. . . . .not going to bring sense out of you.


There is nothing like death. . . . .though we perceive it exist because of the illusion of separation that clouded us. Here is a link on what illusion of separation is http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/06/02/quantum-physics-tells-us-separation-is-only-an-illusion/

The Yoruba where from it spirituality my believe system is rooted would say 'Emi re ti re koja' meaning 'ones breath (energy-esoteric) has passed on to another realm. In this sense, there is nothing like death but transformation or changing of forms from one to another realm.


This is very simple

mazaje: Long epistle that says nothing. . .does human consiousness survive bodily death. . If yes how?. . Answer it and stop throwing around big words. . .

Egba mi o. . . .

How is this an epistle?

Can you show me the big words in my previous post?

At this junction man, pls tell us what human consciousness is. And can you pls specify the difference it has with stone consciousness or sun consciousness?

Asking me if human consciousness could survive death is not making sense until you tell me what human consciousness is. . . . .

What do you mean by bodily death? When part of the body is amputated and dead, how does this affect consciousness?


Lets get down to death. . . . .what is life? Does biological death affect 'activeness' of energy in the dead body?



Just for goodness sake answer this questions. . . .

mazaje: It was those that thought about it's possibility that also brought us the idea of heaven, hell and reincarnation. . .How do I live when am dead?. . .Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . .

Oga how many time will you be told that there is nothing like death but mere illusion of separation?

I wonder how person who has not clarify what life is would be talking of what death is. . .

mazaje: Does consciousness survive bodily death?. . When you die the chemical reactions in your system breaks down into something else. Your body disintegrates and forms part of the soil for example, the energy is converted into something else that is totally different from you. . .Again does consciousness survive bodily death, that I believe is what this topic is all about. . .

Your answers lie close to the questions I asked which is begging for answers.


Mind providing answers and quit dodging everything or turning the table around?

What is life? How do you identify what is alive and not alive?

When Sun is said to die in the future, it mean it is alive. . . .how can you stress your definition of 'life' to dying sun?

What is consciousness. . .how can you differetiate it from awareness and sentience?

If we human who are made up of energy can be conscious, can we then say every other thing made up of energy is conscious?

Carl Sagan said, “We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.” Being a conscious being, we are part of the universe. . . .just like the chunk between our process our consciousness while other part of the body can be regard to as non-conscious component but our whole body is perceive as a conscious body, can we then refer to our whole universe as conscious because we been part of it is conscious?


Thses are the question you should answer. It will make you and I understand our postion. . .then we can proceed over to if consciousness and death survival.

RayMcBlue: Afterlife is within the auspices of the supernatural.

Oga what has supernatural got to do with life and afterlife?

Y'all are just throwing words. If you guys are not creating a clear path, I dont know how you all will reach a conclusion.

RayMcBlue, Mazaje and Apatheist, I will want you guys to define life. (please do stress it beyound biology)

You all can never understand the point Macof is trying to drive if grounds are not clear enough.

What is consciousness? How can you differentiate this from awareness and sentience?

Also, are we agreeing that human are made up of energy. . . .if this is the case, do we really die? Can reactions ever stop in us?

alexleo: So leave it at that and stop being selective and drawing conclusions anyhow. This issue that the Op raised is too deep for one to rush into conclusions. He is not a christian and therefore wasnt thinking on religious lines. But once in a while one get to think deep about this life and the mysteries surrounding it. Must you castigate religion over every little thing? If you as an atheist dont give deep thoughts about life and its mysteries, there are some other atheists who do and they are not wrong

Bros

you need to be able to identify an atheist and a hateist. Most folks here claiming to be atheists are simply hateist who hate everything about religion and would do anything to find fault in it.

striktlymi: If you don't know that everything (even the rock you step on) is one form of energy or the other, in its strict sense, then there is no need having a debate with you.

So much I agree with all you have posted on this thread, I think I will have to cut in here. . . .I am getting confused somewhere.

To me, I believe there is nothing like death, and this very life is an illusion. The world as it is and everything around us are creation of our brain.

If I may ask, what exactly is 'consciousness'? I define it as 'awareness and reaction'; in this sense, everything in the universe is conscious. But from what I have been reading all since, it appears as if what you guys refer to as consciousness is 'sentience'. I understand that they are synonymous but there is a big difference between both. If my presumption is wrong, I will want you to please correct it.

To add more, sentience, mind, self-awareness and 'what you choose to call consciousness are effects of chemical-reaction. What essential in this case is reaction which result from the two or more substances contacting each other. What I mean here is, something can not react without contacting (linked), there after recognising and responding to each other. A case study is vingar and soda. . . . .they react to acid because it presence is recognised when they are mixed together therefore both exchange atoms which reaction effects produce water and carbon dioxide. So with this case, they are conscious. As per sentience, I cant really say.

Life can simply mean activeness. In this case, everything is alive and living. Everything are made up of energy and can never get destroyed or dead but only transform. In the right sense, there is no death.

The question now is, does sentience carry on after biological death?

What do you think is 'self'; does it exist separately on it own or it is illusionary creation of the brain; can it exist outside the body; can it survive death?

And lastly, if we sentient/sapient being, we are made up of energy and are 'aware' of our environment; can we then deduce that rocks, sun and urine which are form of energy are sentient, have mind and 'self'?


I will like to know your thought on this questions.



Thanks

jayriginal: How do you think goats and other herbivores without the advantage of literacy or even informal teachings know which plants are edible and which plants are poisonous?

Who taught man to make eba?

Intelligence

macof: From wikipedia

according to what I have read, Aganju is the force in Hot places and the unknown/unexplored eg. Deserts, Volcanoes
He is responsible for the mysteries of the unknown and burning desires/emotions i.e anger, hatred, curiosity etc.

@folykaze.

Orungan represents Solar Air, i.e Oxygen (emitted from the Sun's heliosphere) which literally intermingle with hydrogen across the atmosphere to produce Water on earth.
If Aganju is Shango's father as well as Orungan than he should be related to the Solar energy which possess thermal energy that charges up in the atmosphere as one major component of lightening. Today this same thermal energy is converted artificially to produce electricity

Helium is a gas of unusual high temperature, it is responsible for the heat we get from the Sun.
and Thermal energy is the energy of a single body by virtue of temperature.

All these has made me see a side of Aganju I never realized

Seriously this a new to me. But I really welcome it.

Would try to read up about Aganju. I go reply you after