₦airaland Forum

Na wa o!

It has never been a crime. Though some practises of traditional religion are illegal.

A001:
His method only seems to work, but it isn't always effective.

Who says it is?

And where did you learn that cloud seeding is 100% effective and that it can make it rain in dry season?

A001:
According to some people, people that claim to control the rain do so by burning certain substances that interact with the cloud to aid/prevent rain (nothing spiritual or supernatural).

It is spiritual and supernatural when the materials and practises are Spiritually coined.

It depends on what makes God a God. The Osun divinity is simply H2O in the scientific world. However, Babalawo would not see H2O but consciousness or energies of Osun. Same with Ogun divinity which in science world is seen as all metalic elements, calcium inclusive. So it's about perspective. You don't push one aside because you got some modern fantasy.

A001:
But the claim is still a polemical issue in mainstream science with no clear-cut evidence available showing that it's possible to control the rain.

You are the one seeing enmity between spirituality and science. Good for you.

As for me, I see harmony between both... Been that, what you call energy that can't be created nor destroyed is what I call Orisha which is eternal.

It doesn't stop me from been an atheist. I am a profound spiritual atheist on here. Spiritual because I don't follow the conventional train. I rather redefine God to some form energies or forces and make it naturalistic

A001:
So you believe the process of attempting to make rain fall or stop via cloud seeding/dispersal is a supernatural or spiritual phenomenon?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

Spirituality and science is both sides of a coin.

Supernatural is same as natural; just that the former has no scientific explanation yet.

Maybe if you watch the video, and can explain the processes the Dibia took, I can take his performers as supernatural. Until then, it is supernatural.

1Sharon:
Right. Who told you that?

This not about me personally. Why tell me to come to south Nigeria why not where everyone can see? Why your village?

And it is to prove the existence of juju not God!

Madam, apologise I have to chip in, but that line of thought exposes is flawed and exposes the unseriousness of folks like you who disbelieve and wanted to challenge.

Here is a video on YouTube https://youtube.com/watch?v=PZmdHyar4i8 posted on BBC channel. The video is about a popular rainmaker in southern Nigeria who claimed he can make it rain or stop raining. The Dibia name is Priest Godwin Onasedu, lives in the remote settlement called Ifitedunu in Donukofa LGA, Anambra state.

BBC Correspondent, Nduka Orjinmo, in an attempt to investigate the Dibia claim, he sent a request to the HQ in London, the proposal was duly approved, financed and support team like cameramen sent down. He didn't sit down in his parlour babbling like Kingxsamz is doing on here but transported down Ifitedunu, a 30 mins drive from Awka. He and his crew prepared the prerequisite materials needed for the ritual also. And he duly confirmed that it indeed rained, approximately two hours after tbe ritual.

Nduka, unlike you did not cough lame excuses. He needed the truth and went hunting it down. He didn't sit in the corner of his ro expecting magics been performed right before him. He isn't a coward, charlatan, lousy slowpoke who wants to dictate and order people around like we are his toy.

If you could remember, the same Video of Onsedu performance was posted on Nairaland. And you know what the conglomeration of atheists on the forum say? "The Dibia should make it rain in dry season or in Arid desert". They were jumping over themselves instead of transporting down to Ifitedunu for their queries. However, these same folks went wide when a news came up about cloud seeding in the Australia. A kind of chemicals were released for plane fuel fuselage to make it rain. None of them here asked same question even when the processes of the Dibia and the modern techniques employed by scientist in Australia is the same. Dibia was simply releasing some chemicals into the atmosphere and he is doing this simply by burning some herbs. The whitees however are deploying Airplanes to spread their chemicals. What is the magic?

So you see, nobody is going to take folks who make same line of argument like you serious. And if baseless arguments is all you are in for, you can have the whole space.

Vincentjk dude, Please ignore these folks. They are hypocrites and as slickers who embraces foreign ideologies just to appear brilliant, yet with all their rants and silly tantrums on cyberspace, I have seen nothing they've achieved as Nigeria is concerned. You could just do yourself a favor and ignore them.

leetech:
Are u a satanist?

Got a DM from you but I can't respond due to some mail delivery errors. What is it you want to discuss with me? We can choose another channel if emails ain't working fine

KOPVIBES:
Bro please can I send a DM?

No probs

HellVictorinho:
Must it be so bad before you call it dangerous??



I no get time for useless debate

Nah money I dey reason like this



Abi
You fit find me something

Go get some loans online na.

HellVictorinho:
Broken bottles can be explained


But they are dangerous!!!

Where you take see broken bottles.

HellVictorinho:
Burns are dangerous!!!!!



Owing to curiosity
I won't do certain things


But all I need is a little favor with no repercussions

Burns dangerous.

Two seconds burn cannot be dangerous abeg.

kingxsamz:
If the 2.5million the person is offering no do You, please kindly stay out of this thread.
Contact the guy on Twitter or fvck off. Thank you. No dey quote me anyhow.

You think it is about money?

You are actually one of those lousy rabble rousers around here.


Cheers pal

HellVictorinho:
How do I know when I have not experienced it??




The chance is there since I have not experienced it




But whatever happens is nothing but a demonstration of the ability of ageless indivisible objects to form whatever combination for no reason

Well there will be some little burns on the palm. In such case, the person whose palm burns can easily throw away the gunpowder or dip his/her in water. So it is not dangerous.

You said if it can be explained but dangerous. If you cn explain it, there is no way it should be dangerous

A001:
It's better you put "no known scientific or natural explanation yet." If that thing you call supernatural is genuine, it'll have a scientific explanation sooner or later unless it's a mere superstition or trick.

If you check through the history of science, you'd see how many things that were regarded as supernatural or spiritual later became demystified when scientists formulated scientific explanations for them.

Do I need to give you examples to buttress this point?

No need to buttress anything. I know the basics of Yoruba spirituality. That spirituality and science are two ends leading to observation, experimention and manipulation of nature mysteries. To me, it's samething, only that what science call energy, consciousness in philosophy, is what we call orisha in Yoruba spirituality. Put it at prescience methodology since Orisha Ogun of the Yoruba spirituality is Calcium in basic science. Sango been electrical energy. We had debate on the subject years ago

A001:
This one is a new challenge you want to create. To participate in the existing one on Twitter, you've to follow the rules as laid down by the organizer.

That's how things work.

I had thought Kingxsamz is the same person who posted the challenge on twitter. The tweet simply says proving supernature. That is why I put up a less dangerous phenomenon but on a strict condition he comes down. Therefore, I am not creating anything new

HellVictorinho:
What if it can be explained but dangerous?

Dangerous how?

LordReed:
So If you were to issue a challenge today what would it look like?

There is one already up there. I don throw the baton to kingxsamz but he he dodge am as usual.

No scary shrine, no harm done, no bullshit. All that is on ground is Ade Orisha (name withheld), container where Gunpowder is stored, and manybe a ring. Adding an open ground.

The man simply use the Gunpowder to make ascertain truth. Basic Yes/No truth. If Mr A stole this item, burn him. If otherwise, do nothing. You can call it truth serum or lie detector but this particular process of his is 100% accurate. This is the least lethal juju I know for now.

But as you can see, kingxsamz don dey drop excuse asking me to visit twitter.

kingxsamz:
If I get you right, you're saying you know someone who has the Power to Know certain information without being told? Or what's his power again? We need supernatural occurrence not trickery.

I know an Awo (not just an Ogberi like you) that has the mystery of ascertaining basic truth. And since his process is not natural, we can agree it is supernatural. Supernatural is simply an attribute given to a phenomenon which have no scientific or natural explanation. So this isn't tricks. Maybe when you get there, you can present a scientific briefing of the experiment and have him debunked. But when you can't do this, you will have to agree the process is supernatural.

Allow me to explain the process. Call in your volunteers, maybe 10 or 20. Keep them in a corner or room away from the Awo. Give them anything like money or phone or biscuit and ask one of them to keep or hide it. We just have to make it like a crime scene and our query would be YES/NO premises. Now we call the Awo in who will put little Gunpowder on all the people in the room. Anyone who picks the hidden item go voice out with pains within 2 seconds. No harm though, there is a water available to supress the burns. The trickery part is you can use yourself to find the basic truth and or try it many times as you desire.

kingxsamz:
I'm not the one who started this challenge. I only brought it to Nairaland for a wider audience and those juju enthusiasts on here.
If you wish to join the challenge, contact the person on Twitter. Use a VPN app to access Twitter and contact him. I think the challenge starts on the 13th of this month. It'll be recorded live and you can perform whatever you want. And yeah, you'll have to go to the challenger's location, I'm sure it'll be an open place where you'll feel safe.

You happen to be the conveyor of the challenge in to Nairaland. You will double up to return to where you got the challenge and inform the challenger that his call has been answered. Sorry, I don't do twitter...as I don't know how to use it. So the task is on you.

Another thing, it is not my responsibility to meet you or the challenger anywhere. It is your duty to seek the truth, not truth finding you. I have met a lot of people from nairaland privately on different occasions, no serious one among them asked to travel down to his location. Na Ore, Ondo State I dey, it is open enough for any experiment and coverage.

No reasonable Babalawo will pick up any challenge from a ramdon person who claimed he brought it to Nairaland for wider audience. Audience for what? Juju is not cigarette that you advertise. But if you want to have a feel of it, go for it especially when someone have given you an offer. If all you are on about is fruitless argument, you are on a wide goose chase.

LordReed:
Variations of this challenge have been around for some time now and no one has been able to claim a kobo. Some people will say it doesn't prove that a god doesn't exist but the silence is deafening.

Dude, you mostly agree that there are very few practising Pagans here. Even when they are here, they don't talk about there association. I remember nuclearboy back in those days. He is confirmed initiate even when he shy away from admitting it. I, ghostofsparta, macof, oluchi and league of adherents are not in the cirlce. As for me, I am all for the heritage. Pagan9ja, Oluchi and Macof are for the cultural values. Those who claim to challenge are lousy rabble rousers who don't walk their talk.

I can remember in 2009, I challenged Mazaje. We both exchanged mails and spoke on phone for arrange. On the day I discussed the challenge with my late Awo, he consulted Ifa and informed me Mazaje was only fooling himself. I played along with him and he only cough out baseless excuses. Today he is Mali, tomorrow he is in Germany. You know all that talk.

All through 2013, I was forced to bring forth a challenge. The thread has been washed away. A fair, non lethal conversing Osanyin (ancestral AI). Not a single Atheist on here pick up there challenge. Logicboy confessed he was scared. I tried convincing him it is not dangerous. At least, he can converse with the Osanyin himself. Na japa him japa till tomorrow.

I remember Ghostofsparta challenge too. The thread ran several pages with excuses, insults and vague arguments. Let me tell you some fun facts. The person who picked up sparta challenge is in far United State. He is anonymous. I remember Sparta contacted me to come for the show. I wasn't interested because the Charm was to be prepared and mailed to US for the anonymous to prove himself.

This is why I am offering to pick up kingxsamz challenge. We know for sure where it's going to end. He will tell me to bring the Baba to his hood bla bla bla.

I dey come religion section everyday and i no see this thread?

@kingxsamz is the challenge still on?

If it is, then there is this juju man I met years back. He practically can ascertain truth with etu (gunpowder). Police around here usually brings suspected thieves who had denied despite been torture. He simply do the magic and he rightly handpick the thieves.

Why I chose this juju man;

His charm acts within seconds.

It is less lether than gun and knife.

Can be covered on camera.

Trickery is allowed. I mean he engages you directly and provides enough practical examples.

You are free to come along with volunteers for the experiment. They will be safe.

Ekoi, Efik and ibibio writings

SSIPON:
Years ago, we didn't understand thunder and what did we do? we invented gods like Thor and Sango to try to explain them. Years ago we didn't understand Sickle cell anemia and what did we do? We invented Ogbanje to try to explain it.

Apologies, but I wil have to digress a little bit here.

I bet you do not understand Yoruba spirituality, reason why you weave it with Bible religion system.

Sango from the spiritual angle is the representation of electrical energy in nature. Note, what we call Orisa in Yoruba spirituality is energy in science. You dare not say Sango does not exist or is an invention.

SSIPON:
Just because your are yet to understand it, doesn't mean it's supernatural. By the way you first have to Proof the supernatural claim you are making.

Supernaturals simply is a natural phenomenon which yet have no natural or scientific explanation. No voodoo here

Interesting topic but would like to see the views of those versed on the subject.

fullnetwork:
For their small mind. I'm sure he is receiving body transplant in UK ahead of the 2023 elections.

For your microscopic mind, them dey interchange body.

Tinubu is your president come 2023 and there is nothing you can do about it

Infiniti styled cap

hupernikao:
Your points above are purely Christian theology and am sure you dont hold the view, hence i wont have the discussion with you. The school of thoughts and systems you mentioned above are on the premise of theology. I will rather discuss it with someone who holds them as believe not you as you dont believe in it.

Lastly, they are ideas founded on study of the scriptures and believe in God. I dont think you also affirms any of that. So, I will let them pass because it will take your trust in the truth of the scriptures to speak on any of those doctrines above. If you dont hold such believe, all the doctrines you listed with fall flat behind your ears no matter how loud the explanation is.

Remember I am an ex- Christian You suppose look well. Adress the question buddy.

Is John 1:1 asserting Jesus was created or supporting the claims of Homoousian?

Why would 1 John 4:2 subtly attack against Marcionism and Docetism which process Jesus is a mere illusion? Oh possibly is your own version of Jesus historical?

What is the root of gnosticism in Christianity?

Please answer these questions sir

hupernikao:
You know the real point here is that you agreed that those characters werent fictional. That goes a long way to help in your study in future. I appreciate your diligence in doing research. I am sure years back you would have denied their existence just like some still do today, but now you have read further and more, and see their existence. The other issues will come to roast over the years.

Victorian London is real, not because Sherlock Holmes story describe it, but because history substantiated it. Pilate realness does not establish the historical Jesus

hupernikao:
Your points 2 & 3 are just full of assumptions and hearsay, so i wont respond to it. I will deal on issues that arent rolled on emotions.

Really? Why can't you reveal the reality?

hupernikao:
On Paul, i wont respond also since its an obvious misinterpretation of the scriptures. I dont do verse lifting explanation. The author wrote a book, that is how you should read it and not turn to a millennial students who dont appreciate proper contextual study.

I no fit laugh finish. Misinterpretation for real? Tell us the real interpretation abeg

hupernikao:
Firstly, You made so much assumptions in your response.

I will start from the theology you presented in your point 4.





I am definitely sure you know this is a doctrine help by the Jews and not just a contemporary stuff. Hence you should know that the basis of such assertion was taken from how they interpreted the scriptures.

If you affirm this, it clearly showed to that you have affirm the authority of the OT writers and its prophecies.

This also pose a question now to you, is that what the scriptures truly says.


The answer to this will be from a honest study of the OT itself to know what the prophets explained.
But hold this tight. From Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Ezekiel and other prophets in the OT who saw the heart of God, they clearly stated a messiah who will suffer then reign, not one who will rule as a military agent. Even David's life already showed you that a messiah (anointed) can suffer before he reigns. That is a narrative of Christ in OT shown in the life of David.

Jesus said same in Luke 24:25
Ought not Christ (anointed, messiah) to have suffered this things and enter into his glory.

He was reading the OT to say this. A Jew will never agree with this even though such anomalies was seen in David and he cant fault it.


I will leave you to do a better study for yourself than do an hearsay as this is not the focus of this write up. I i will advise you do a diligent study of the promised messiah from the OT and know whether he is a military ruler, enforcer or one who will suffer even in his anointing as spoken by the Jewish, OT books.

Why you not start with Jewish Messiah to know that the idea of Christ went beyond 8BC

@hupernikao

I am really glad you took your time to glance through the thread. It is however disappointing that you do not digest the contents. The issues discussed in the OP is huge, I read and still reading many scholars thesis and publications, yet I have make the points comprehensive and easy to understand. You could have taken your time to study it.

1. The historicity of the personalities like Peter, James and Paul are enormous. These people can be identified by contemporary writers like Josephus who wrote extensively about the Rome - Jewish war in the 66AD. However, the account about them or their missions in the new testament are gigantic fictional and highly twisted. The OP used historical information like Quirinius census to debunk the historicity of the New testament. Therefore, just because New testament mentioned historical personalities like Pilate, Herod, Agrippa, and James the Apostle doesn't make the narration objective truth. Much like Sherlock Holmes stories cannot be true just because it mentioned and described Victorian London.

2.The author of the New Testament are unknown. Moreso, the largesse of the New Testament are heavily altered and forged. The people who allegedly wrote them did not meet, see, converse or walk with the so called Lord.

3. John 1:1 is a later gnostic bullcrap. I could have asked why Paul insists that there is only one 'gospel of Christ' (Galatians 1:7), and why did later Christians accept as 'Scripture' four written and contradictory gospels? Note Arianism of Gospel of John, Docetism of gospel of Peter, or Marcionism of reworked gospel of Luke .

Was Jesus created in the beginning or not... Homoousian?

Was his crucifixion an illusion... Docetism?

What is the root of gnosticism in Christianity? The dice is cast hupernikao, lets play

4. Take your time to read the OP. There is a long expectancy of a revolutionary Christ (anointed one) whom the Jewish populace believe would emancipate the Jewish nation from Roman colonialism. The OP established that this personality should be a militant who would raze down Rome and rule the entire world. However our known Jesus isn't a militant but a pacifist. This Jesus cannot be the Christ. And whatever is in the bible today is a mere invention.

5. I will advice you to take your time to read through your Bible and critically weigh it with history. You would only find that the Old testament is wholesale moonlight tale and the New testament is simply an historical fiction.

sonmvayina:
The worshippers of Serapis where called Christians...

The worshippers of Jesus where called catholics...

Make no mistake.

Let me cite the words of the author of the Declaration of Independence and the 3rd President of the United States.

Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.

— Thomas Jefferson

Christianity is an ignition started by the Roman Government to remotely control the mind of the disturbing jewish populace, and Paul is the matchstick.

[quote author=nurey post=105701801][/quote]Nice trading with you. Do enjoy the gadget