₦airaland Forum

Lizzyangel:
If I'm to reply this post, I'll dig into my family's story which isn't a good thing, I've opened up too much here, Nland is a faceless forum, but no one knows tomorrow.
I'd say, thanks for your contributions so far,I'll work on it.

Afterthought?

Mstick:
Foly come and answer your call. So you're a beggar and also an abuser.



Oga Foly here's an advice. How about you spend less time writing meaningless jargons on religion section and more time making money to fend for your kids?

Seek therapy you punk! If you know you're tired of her send her away honorably.

Hmmmm

mrblessed:
The ordeal you narrated is a common predicament of most young Nigerian ladies, who are unfortunately condemned to suffer the consequences of their poor sense of judgement and choices. If what you wrote is the truth, there is no excuse whatsoever to continue living with your baby daddy, if he is not willing to turn a new leaf. But I doubt he would, because there is no strong pressure coming from your family.

Since he is on this platform, it is good he reads what members have got to say and, if possible, try to react to some of them in a civil manner. The fact that you didn't pay a dime on a woman, or that the family is not strong enough to stand up to you, is not an excuse to maltreat and turn her into a punching bag. From what you disclosed thus far, I got the feeling that you have been contending with a BEAST and not a man. If you don't want her to stay with you anymore, kindly and amicably tell her so, that would accord you a veneer of a gentleman.

It is really hard to respond in a 'civil manner' right now. I will even take it that I am a 'Beast'. But hey man, did it started like this? If I was all beastly, how did she got to a whooping 9yrs relationship? What changes?

You see, she did a good PR, nailing all her points and blackmailing me. While some of what she said are truths, she never mentioned what sparked those reactions. I took lotta shots, emotionally, and should be expected to respond in equal capacity, physically, even if the society won't see all the backdoor abuses.

It is good she brought it here. I will prepare a civil response maybe later in the day. She will tell the larger end of the story. Thanks

MaxInDHouse:
@ Shadeyinka

I'm only doing this to prove to you through this discussion that the ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS avoiding me are doing so not because they have anything tangible to say but they're running away from their own conscience that's judging them each time they engage me! Act 26:28
May you have PEACE!

Proverb 26:4

Lol



Shadeyinka once said, why do you quote words of men you do not believe in. I then remember today that Paul cites a pagan poet and philosophers (Epimenides, Menander, Aratus) to condemn his theological foe. Jude also quote from Heresies book which have been removed from the compilation at the council of trent. Jude quoted testament of moses, and book of Enoch. Therefore Yinka, atheists too can quote the bible even when they do not entirely believe in it.

shadeyinka:
Were you ever in a Seminary?
What made your turning Point? Was it gradually or was it a drastic event?

Haaaa! Seminary ke.

My sojourn into enlightenment was borne out of curiosity. From my tender age, I yearn to know truth. Curiosity led me into and outside religion. I was never convinced, always thirsty to know the truth. However, I found that if knowing is water, and digging deep is the cup, no matter the quantity I gulped, I am never satisfied. All in all, I never encounter divinity. I stopped digging into abyss and walked my way back into disbelief.

shadeyinka:
I never said that "belief is an act of faith"
I said:
Belief: A state of the heart (or mind) of Trust in the integrity of a Personality
Faith: Actions/Decisions you make (internal or external) based on the Belief of the Heart in the of Trust in the integrity of a Personality

Heb 11:1
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

A Simple Illustration:
Faith is like the Check/Promissory Note of N250,000,000 you received from Aliko Dangote evidenced by what you do (reaction) with the Check.
The Check is the Substance of the Money Hoped For!
The Check is the evidence of the Money Hoped For!
The Check is NOT the Money. The Check is a Promissory Note!

This Reaction comes because you believed in the Integrity of the Personality of Aliko Dangote so as to treat the Promissory Note as already DONE!
Just imagine all the sets of actions you will take because you know that Dangote's Check cannot bounce! Won't you boldly walk into your bank to cash the money? Won't you rejoice and celebrate preemptively because you have received the check? Won't you begin to dream and plan of what you'll do with that extra N250,000,000?

Turn the table around:
If the HeadMaster of your Primary school met you on the road and gave you a Check of N250,000,000, would that check be an Evidence that you are now a Millionaire? Will that Check serve as an Evidence that you will buy a Bently 2021 model by Monday next week? Would you joyfully and confidently walk into your bank to cash the money?

That is why in Hebrews 11, faith is always connected with Action taken by the Personality:
By Faith Abraham did..
By Faith Abel did...
By Faith Noah did...etc.

I guess that was why James painted it as : Faith without Works is DEAD!

Very good attempt from you. I wish many of my people can distil the difference between Faith and Believing like this.
To your last Question:I both Believe and Have Faith in God.

-Faith is Earned AND Faith can also be a Gift.
-Faith is in Sizes (Great faith, Little Faith, etc)
-We also grow in Faith
-Faith is trusting in the Integrity of God evidenced by your corresponding Action towards it
-There is Faith because God has Spoken and there is Faith because you know God and Faith as a Demand for God's intervention
-Faith is a command for believers

Believing is based on knowledge of God: however, knowing is also Relative. Believing could also be purely intellectual. Faith is ACTING on what you have believed because of KNOWING surely/with certainty that the act will not FAIL your expectation.

I applaud you for this brilliant submission. But I need some clarifications.

You stated, "Faith is ACTING on what you have believed because of KNOWING surely/with certainty that the act will not FAIL your expectation"

1. Isn't knowledge a justified belief? How can one believe what he had known?
2. Since you claim faith is an action, does this mean faith and work are same thing? Did the bible distinguish both?

shadeyinka:
No Sir!
Your Final Choice of taking Tea rather than Coffee was what God saw. If you like, mix both Coffee and Tea: it's your CHOICE and that is exactly what God saw. You can even choose not to take any beverage this morning and that would be exactly what God saw. The Future is NOT cast in stone.


God's Foreknowledge has nothing to do with compelling you to make certain choices. God's Foreknowledge is the expression of His Omnipresence even in TIME and SPACE!

You can Decide what ever you Will at this Time, whatever your present choice at execution time is, is what God has seen: meaning that YOU FOLY have the power to determine whatever God would have seen about you.

Firstly, you need to understand that foreknowledge implies knowing all the possible moves someone will make.

Secondly, Knowing exactly what move someone will make is Omniscience.

And the only way one could know the future is only if we live in a causally determined world. Since God created the universe and set the stream of causes and effects into motion, I would say he is responsible for everything that happens in this universe. And that our choices are only predetermined, hence free will is an illusion.

shadeyinka:
If I had a Time-Machine and can view the News and Happening from tomorrow up till December, have I compelled Buhari, the Senate, BokoHaram, NNPC, FRSC to act in a certain manner so that they can generate the news I've already foreseen?

I got to know the predestination paradox from the movie titled PREDESTINATION. Please read the plot online and you may watch it when you are less busy. If there is a time machine, you can return from the future and correct the unjust killing of Yusuf Mohammad.

Since you can travel within time with this device, one who moved from the future to the past will compel those police from killing Yusuf. While those policemen would think it is their decision not to kill Yusuf, unknowingly to them, it was you who saw the catastrophe of the Boko Haram menace in the future who do compel their decision for your own will.

shadeyinka:
I can only smile at you for you err greatly.
It's just like you telling me that: "shadeyinka, you are not a man!"
Do you expect me to start arguing and proving to you that I'm a man?

Can I move mountains!?
I am still growing my dear. Sometimes it's not so simple having ADEQUATE Faith for the kind of Spiritual intervention Desired. Faith is a SPIRITUAL Currency. I may have N10,000 in my purse and I desire to make a demand for a 160 inch Flat Screen TV at the electronics store. Yes, I have some money, but can my money purchase my desire? No!

The disciples were called by Jesus himself. They believed him, leaving their livelihood and loved ones, they followed Jesus. These guys were mere believers in the ministration of Jesus but could not heal because they were faithless.


Matthew 17:16-19
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Faith as a grain of mustard seed can move mountain. If your own version of Faith is lesser than mustard seed, it then can be regarded as nothing.

Those who have faith and born again receive POWER
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

1 Corinthians
12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
12:9 To another FAITH BY THE SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

You claimed to be born again but do not receive this spirit of faith and power to heal or move mountain, you dey deceive yourself.

shadeyinka:
Exactly why we ALL need to be Born Again.

We are all born destined for destruction as TARES and GOATS.
However, God in His mercies provided "the LAMB of God" as a Sacrifice;
That just as the Bronze Serpent was hung in the Wilderness: So also will this LAMB be hung on a Tree

Just like in the Wilderness: That WHOSOEVER believes in Gods SOLUTION shall NOT Perish, but have their Eternal Life with God
Such People have been GIVEN a New LIFE, New IDENTITY, New SPIRIT (Born Again). The former nature is DEAD, the New nature is LIFE,

No one is perfect. It is a GIFT that you can come to GOD for: Change the course of your Future by what you DO now. Change yourself from Being a TARE or GOAT to one of God's SHEEP.

Lol

shadeyinka:
Can you bring yourself to TRUST God's INTEGRITY?

Maybe when I encounter him like Paul.

shadeyinka:
Abraham believed in God in an extraordinary situation.

Belief: A state of the heart of Trust in the integrity of a Personality
Faith: Action based on the Belief of the Heart in the of Trust in the integrity of a Personality

You mean belief is an act of faith? Funny you.
Did you take your time to read the linked book in my previous post? I definitely know you dont.
Can you illustrate this your definition with Hebrew 11:1? I challenge you to....

But before that, let me give you a clue of what belief and faith are.

Belief is a product of mind/brain.
Faith is a product of the spirit.

Belief stem from intellectual construct, rational thinking and mental evaluation which ensue from natural source.
Faith stem from divinity, which ensue from a supernatural source.

Belief changes overtime
Faith remain constant.

Belief is an attitude of knowing, hence you learn to believe.
Faith is an attitude of acceptance of not knowing.
You unlearn to have faith.

Now Yinka, do you believe in God or have faith in him?

shadeyinka:
No sir!
Freewill is the ability of a Person to choose a course of action amongst possibilities subject to surrounding constraints.
Free Will does not reduce the omnipotence of God rather it asserts Gods omnipresence even in time and space. Simply put, your futute is not determined, it is Foreknown by God. In other words, God can travel in the fabric of time to view what you will do with the opportunities you are presented with without interfaring with your ability to CHOOSE. Whatever you chose was what God saw.


None of the above.
For me, God has the power to Foreknow not because He has Destined a person for such or not.

Yes, God knows every choice anyone will ever make because He created time and thus can move anywhere within time (past, present and future) to view and thus have a foreknowledge of events before it happens. However, our future is CREATED in real time by what CHOICES we MAKE with our Present Real time Opportunities within available Constraints.

If God can see our fututre, then He can also graciously Change the fututre to bend to His will.

Does God not know our possible choices and outcome of every choice we make?
Answer: YES
Would our choice deter or defer us away from God's plan?
Answer: NO!

Ok!

God knew I will take tea this morning, it is therefore impossible that i would take coffee. This mean my choice of taking a tea instead of coffee was compelled by God's foreknowledge. Therefore, my thought of free will is illusionary.

Since you are inferring that it is impossible to make a choice different from what God foresaw, doesn't this imply that my choice is mere illusion?

shadeyinka:
Except by Gods intervention, whatever we do is exactly what God had foreseen from eternity past.
Since nothing catches God by accident, our choices cannot defer us away from God's plan for us

Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Rom 11:2:
"God has not cast away his people which he foreknew . Know you not what the scripture said of Elias? how he makes intercession to God against Israel saying,"

1Pet 1:2:
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you, and peace, be multiplied."

Gbam! This implies we don't have a choice except for what God foreknow and determined.

shadeyinka:
I got Born again through Evangelism.
I can still remember how a Muslim Alfa got born Again in my Office: It happened so fast that I was reluctant to believe Him until he with his mouth told me thsat he understood the message and will want to get born again. In my office he knelt down as we prayed. I must confess, its still amazes me till today.

Evangelism isnt a waste o.
We can speak, but the holy Spirit is the one who convicts a tired, seeking and humble heart. If the Moslem had told me he wasnt interested, I would have kept my mouth shut.

You didn't become a born again. You are simply a believer.

The spirit of truth does not abide in you nor do you receive the gift of faith. Can you move mountains? Lol

shadeyinka:
What is man to God?
A free willed creature made to be a mirror of God, superior to all other creatures
What does God want from man?
People who will of their own volition choose to Love and Live their lives unconditionally under His rule
Why the Earth?
The Earth is a School for Separation and Selection between the Sheep and the Goat
What then happens?
The Wheat is set appart for the Use of the King of the Universe
The Tares are set appart for the Refuse Dump of God as useless to His cause

God made them all: goat and sheep, and tare and wheat. We didn't have choose to become goat or sheep

shadeyinka2:
I didn't claim I have the gift of faith. This is the ability to trust God even in serious extraordinary cases. I know a few people though who has this gift. I was speaking about the kind of faith required for salvation (saving faith) not the kind of faith for moving "mountains" (moving faith)

There lies the problem. With the emboldened, I can easily deduce you don't really understand what faith is. Neither do understand believe nor trust. Even when the bible use these words interchangeably, they mean a whole different thing.

And as for those you claim to know that possess the gift of faith; these people only exhibit the act of faith which is different from virtue of faith.

In order to understand this subject, you will need to read thoroughly the book written by St. Thomas Aquinas, SUMMA THEOLOGIAE

He defines Belief and faith in St. Thomas, II-II (SECUNDA SECUNDÆ PARTIS), Q. iv, a. 1&2 respectively as:

Belief is immediately an act of the intellect

Faith the act of the intellect assenting to a Divine truth owing to the movement of the will, which is itself moved by the grace of God

Many Christians today proclaim or appear that they possess the gift of faith which actually is incorrect. What they do actually possess is an act of faith or belief: this act is centred on reasoning and intellect.

shadeyinka2:
Even though you had a few mix-ups, you seem to have a deeper understanding than some of my brethren. However, There are some serious mix up that I need to address.
1. One of your argument is that God calls who He wills and therefore, it may not be a persons fault if he isn't saved.
Answer:
Yes, sometimes as a mark of God's extraordinary grace a few people are shown the extraordinary favour of being directly called by God. Eg. Paul. But this is not the norm, it is an exception.

Secondly,
You quoted Gal1:11, Rom 8:30 to buttress your point about predestination of the elect for salvation.
Even though Gods predestination is true for the elect, the predestination is based on God's FOREKNOWLEDGE of the person. What this means is that the Creator of Time can see ALL your actions even before you made them, not because He predestined your actions but because He is not limited by time to see. These people who fulfil the trait of God for salvation are the ones He predestined and called from the eternal past.

Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Rom 11:2:
"God has not cast away his people which he foreknew . Know you not what the scripture said of Elias? how he makes intercession to God against Israel saying,"

1Pet 1:2:
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you, and peace, be multiplied."


In other words, FOREKNOWLEDGE precedes Predestination.

With regard to law of nature, I subscribe to Determinism. And with issue related with Human nature, I consider myself a fatalist. All fields of describing nature and human as a whole tilt toward determinism and fatalism.

Firstly, from a christian standpoint, when there is an all knowing God with infinite wisdom and understanding of all possibilities; free will, an individual choices that are not wholly determined by prior influence; therefore not only refute the ultimate will of God, but also open more web of problems like the problem of evil.

As a Christian, you would either become:
a. Calvinist who outrightly reject the idea of free will. Although there is a room for "compatibalistic free" choices. This means we "choose" but what we will choose is determined.
b. Open Theist who doesn't believe God is Omniscient. It implies God knows everything that is knowable which would not include the choices of free individuals.
c. Traditional Libertarian theism who posit that God knows every choices but he is not deterministic about it. This set strip God off the attributes of omnipotence and benevolence.

Secondly, from the Yoruba spirituality standpoint, the Gods are not absolved from the blame. From the physical and medical defect, to bad conditioned fate, existence and experiences, the Gods are blamed pointblank. All variable choices, behaviour and ethic leads to the same determined future, not even charm could change it. Life is but a dream, a reflective mirror of Iponri.

Lastly, from the naturalistic or atheist viewpoint, we are simply our own brain puppet.

All in all, there is no free will anywhere, except from the Christianity where Christians try to absolve God from the imbalances, evil, and imperfect world.

shadeyinka2:
2. That we don't have out own will
Of course we do have a strong Will constrained by circumstances often times beyond our direct control. In other words, within the limitations of our constraints, we express our will.

You could choose either to reply this post or not. You can decide to forgive or not. You could decide to resign from your place of work today or not. You could choose to give God a chance or not.

This is FREEWILL: ability to CHOOSE a line of action within the available options allowed by your external and internal constraints.

Does God not know our possible choices and outcome of every choice we make? Would our choice deter or defer us away from God's plan?

Jeremiah 1:5
New International Version
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

shadeyinka2:
Believers are given the job of Evangelism because those who hear the message can use their freewill to decide to align with God or reject Him. Everyone's external and internal constraints are varied and different.

People who evangelize are pretty much wasting their time... Unless the spirit of truth dwells in the listener, and the comforter stands by him, all that is been said wouldn't sink in.

John 14:16-17
King James Version
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

shadeyinka2:
It means I never really knew God from the beginning. Salvation itself is the Gift: trusting the Giver of the Gift for my own gift is my responsibility. Rejecting the gift is also my responsibility.

Power of God cannot be resisted.

shadeyinka2:
You are correct: God doesn't take back His gift.
I am not sure if people can by themselves throw away Gods gifts but I think this is possible.

A river cannot flow against it course

Isaiah 22:22

I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

shadeyinka2:
No!
It just means that you cannot question God about whatever He does with anyone.

I can REASON sha?

shadeyinka2:
The key phrase is: "WHAT IF"
Rom 9:22:
"What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"

Even if we don't want to stress the "what if", the Scripture is about God through His patience allowing the wicked to completely do their will without restraint from God (when He could have stopped them through death).

However, the total Scripture here is speaking about the fact that "an engineer cannot be challenged for dismantling one of his own creations". I can't challenge God for being born in Africa rather than in USA, I can't challenge that I am not as healthy as my peers, I can't even challenge that I was born into a Muslim Cleric's house.

Ultimately, he will destroy those he found not fit, when actually they didn't dent themselves.

hoopernikao:
No, I am not speaking about remark or opinion. I mean just reading properly the way you read simple literature you will not come to this wrong conclusion.

Try read it in a conversational mode, it was a conversation. Conversation don't come with chapters and verses originally. I guess that is what affected your interpretation.

Just read properly, it will be clear.

I have read it over and over, and can only deduct God and his son kept the young man in perpetual darkness for years, not for doing any wrong or his parents wrong doings, but for God to gratify himself with his condition.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%209&version=NIV

alphaNomega:
We have the Avengers to thank for saving billions of humans especially Tony Stark, he paid the ultimate sacrifice.

John Frum is coming back again, to bring back eternal peace, food and sound health

shadeyinka2:
Let's apply this to the rule of logic to see how correct your interpretations are
1. You believe God did NOT give you the gift of Faith for Salvation
2. You believe God did give me the gift of Faith for Salvation

Where are the evidences that you possess the gift of faith?

You may have been privileged according to 1 Corinthians 12:8-9 gift of wisdom, or knowledge about the scripture, or prophesy, or healing, or speaking in tongue. All these are provable with ease.

Defending faith isn't a gift of faith.

On another round, Galatian 1:11-17 addresses your questions

ESV
Paul Called by God

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.
12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it.
14 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born,[d] and who called me by his grace,
16 was pleased to reveal his Son to[e] me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;[f]
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.


Paul had direct intervention from Christ. He was been assigned for the job of preaching to the Gentiles before he was born, and was only called when it was time.

Moreso, just like you are defending faith today, those who prophesied in the name of the Lord, heal sickness in the name of Jesus, cast out demons in the name of the Lord, or accustomed with knowledge of the Lord to preach may not be known to the Lord

Matthew 7:21-23
New King James Version

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ [b]

There is no way you can prove you had divine encounter and accosted with the gift of faith; therefore your present thoughts of been faithful is delusional. Hence, your logic is stamped out.

The linear sequence of been faithful to God is prepared even before on is born.
Romans 8:30
New International Version
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

The sequence there is God glorifying those he had justified, whom he had called, whom he had predestined with the gift of faith.

On the other round, like Paul, some are reserved, not exhibiting their faith until the last time when they would be be saved.

1 Peter 1:5
New International Version
5 "who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time."

You are the known Yinka, that those who are once saved are ever saved. Moreso, we are simply tools in the hand of God, as such, there is no freewill. This is why Jesus said those who are his would yield to his voice, and no one can snatch them from him.

John 10:27-28
New International Version
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

If snatching from Jesus implies sinning or returning to worldly things, those who are gifted with faith, the sheep cannot and never derail from the path which Christ put them.

1 John 3:9
New International Version
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

shadeyinka2:
Now, what happens if per chance today I become an Atheist like you (denying everything I've ever known about Christ): would it
a. Invalidate that God ever gave me the gift of faith for salvation?

No. If you return to atheism now, it review you haven't been granted the gift of Faith.

shadeyinka2:
b. Would it absolve me of my role in the gift of Faith for Salvation?

No. It implies you were only deluding yourself before.

shadeyinka2:
c. Could it be that God retrieved back His gift of faith?

While I subscribe to the idea that He gives and takes, there is no evidence from scripture he takes back gift of faith.

shadeyinka2:
d. What is the role of my Will in this scenario?

No role. We are just vessels and tool of God with which he utilize his ultimate will.






I only understand though, that some vessel are only meant for destruction roman 9:22. Which exposes that God is wicked and unjust.

shadeyinka2:
I have not debunked that Faith for salvation is a gift. I have only told you that not all of faith is given from above. Else judgement is meaningless if faith and obedience to God is purely Given from above.

Eph 2:8-10:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

Meaning:
Our being saved is not because we worked for it for we cannot deserve salvation. It is a gift given to us simply because we believed in God's word for our salvation. Hence, I can't get to paradise an boast of how hard I worked to deserve my entry.

The gift is not the Faith, it is the SALVATION!

Yinka ha! You are twisting simple English here.

The statement is vivid itself. Salvation is through faith, faith is a gift from God..

shadeyinka2:
2Pet 1:1:
"Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ:"

Meaning:
The faith is obtained through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ.
The essense of preaching the gospel is that you too can go to the SOURCE and obtain this faith. You can't reject the SOURCE and turn round to say you have been denied grace for faith.
Why do you think disciples of Christ are commanded to preach the gospel. The summary is presented below

Rom 10:14:
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

2 Peter 1:1
New International Version
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Yet again, Peter here is referring to some set of believers; whom he attested received faith through righteousness of God and Salvation of Christ. Thus, it implies that faith is given, as gift, to believers.

shadeyinka2:
Phil 1:29:
"For to you it is given in the behalf of Christ,[/b] not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

Meaning:
It is our [b]lot as Christians to both believe in Him AND suffer for His sake.

Chai! See twisting

Let me ask, what is that which is given?

shadeyinka2:
Acts 3:16:
"And his name through faith in his name has made this man strong, whom you see and know: yes, the faith which is by him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

Meaning:
Faith in Christ is what healed the crippled man.

Acts 3:16, NIV: "By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has completely healed him, as you can all see."

Faith that comes through Jesus. Did the blind man bought it from Jesus or it was given unto him as a present?

shadeyinka2:
Faith itself mean "TRUST in the INTEGRITY of GOD and His WORD".

Hebrew 11:1 defines faith. Stop twisting it.

shadeyinka2:
Salvation is the Gift.

Salvation through faith is a gift Eph 2:8-10

shadeyinka2:
Finally so that you won't missunderstand me, their is ALSO a gift of Faith (as a Spiritual Gift) which NOT all Christians possess.

1Cor 12:8-9:
"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"

Their is no special gift of faith mentioned there. It only says some where given the gift of faith while others have something else.

shadeyinka2:
I don't usually discuss scriptures with Atheists but since you quoted Scriptures here, I decided to oblige you.

Cheers to that

shadeyinka2:
Is there anything impossible for God including hardening a man's heart if He chooses?
But that isn't the norm!

Just like God heals, but it isn't the norm. God can kill, but it isn't the norm. God even specifically decide to save some people (eg. Saul who became Paul) but it isn't the norm

God share the precious gift of faith to some like lollipop, but I and other non-believers are not opportune. Don't blame us, blame God. Even at that, God is said to punish us for not possessing a talent he didn't give us...that is one of those attributes that make him wicked.

shadeyinka2:
Cheers and wish the the best of today!

Happy Sunday buddy!

hoopernikao:
Bro, you aren't reading that text (John 9) properly.

You had wanted an eisegesis remark on it. Why don't you give us your own view?

shadeyinka2:
It's the truth you despise!

What is truth? I hope it's not truth only when it is your myopic viewpoint?

shadeyinka2:
If faith is purely a gift, then the scripture below is meaningless

Mar 11:22
"And Jesus answering said to them, Have faith in God."

1Tim 5:12
"Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith."

How do those verses debunk claims that faith is a gift?

This is Ephesians 2:8-9

New International Version
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Faith is presented as a gift from God in 2 Peter 1:1, Philippians 1:29, and Acts 3:16.

You need to start reading your own Bible.

shadeyinka2:
I didn't say agnostics don't have a portion of their blame, the point is that their chastisement cannot be like those who REJECTED the notion of God.

You are telling us this as you thought, not in accordance with the Bible.

shadeyinka2:
Why then is it a WILL and not CONSTRAINTS?

Your will is the your expression of your DESIRE. It is free for you to express.

Do you truely believe that your WILL constrained by God?

Why then is their judgement of the expression of your Will?

Are you invalidating Philippians 2:13 and Proverbs 21:1? Did God not hardened Pharaoh's heart?

shadeyinka2:
See you quoting men you don't even believe in like your justifications depend on it. LOL!
I guess those are the ideas that helped you to throw away any iota of faith that used to be inside you.

If God truely exist and God is Just, should he punish rapists, murderers and others who manage to escape justice on earth?

Off to work, catch you later..

MaxInDHouse:
What do you want to know about my own God?

I know you've been silenced in the past so don't feel shy or bad i'm not interested in insulting, abusing or cursing you just because we don't share the same line of thought.
Shadeyinka tried to engage me even when i tried to warn him that he will be hurt emotionally as i've noticed how egoistic he is but he kept pestering me until i agreed to engage him. Today he's running away from me, the only thing does now is quote or cite scriptures that has nothing to do with matters and the next thing he will say to ease his emotional pain is "Your father is Satan" Mark 3:22

But you can't say that because you don't even believe in the Bible so let's chat if you want to i'll make our discussion friendly, the same way i did with Shadeyinka!

Your God, Shadeyinka God, Catholic God are not same?

Hahahahaha....

Abeg bye bye

MaxInDHouse:
I didn't put this in your heart nah!


So can you explain what you meant by that statement?

Not a dolt like you

Bye abeg!

MaxInDHouse:
My own God never talked about chastisement for unbelievers, don't merge me with a Churchgoer.
If you want to chat with me i'm ever ready, i will not judge you, rather it's your own conscience that will demand to know what my God says about those who refuses to do what will benefit them and their neighbours!

Dem won tell is stories wey we never hear before! Lololol

Oya dey talk

Dp

MaxInDHouse:
So if you agree that angels are messengers sent by God, what do you now think about the one who sent that so called angel to RESCUE you?

Angel mean God messenger! Hahahahahaha.

See brain work

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted! Angel means "messenger from God" so who sent this so called "angel"?

Lol
Good you know that.


No matter how old you are, your posts portrays you are feeble minded.
How far?

shadeyinka:
It is one thing to be faithless, it is another to reject faith in God. One is passive the other is active. For one, you may not blame he who doesn't have faith much BUT he who rejects faith deserves chastisement!

Is that what your pastor taught you or your thought?


Faith is said to be a gift from God, that is it cannot attained through natural means but through supernatural interventions and divine grace, how can atheists who view the world through natural means have faith when God has not graced him that benefit. Atheists only reject what you and larger Christian folks presented, not God interventions.

It is good you are accepting agnostics who are faithless should not be blame. I can also argue that atheists too shouldn't be blamed, maybe you, MaxInDHouse and the entire christian folks should. Why?

Will is an illusion. It is entirely controlled by God, and as such cannot be free. As the philosopher stated, "free is cause of itself". Therefore, whatever is moved by another is not free. According to the bible, God controls our will;
Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Therefore, the rejection of God existence is firstly, deprivation of atheists divine grace and gift ; secondly, it is God owns doing as he totalling control will, been the first cause of will.

God wired the heart of Pharaoh and turned around to punish Pharaoh, his subjects and kill innocent children who contribute nothing to Pharaoh decisions. Meanwhile God hardwired him himself. Same applies to atheists. The circus doesn't make sense.

Forget about chastisement, reading that from you and MaxInDHouse present you guys as poor thinkers... Everything shall be chastised. Go and read your Bible and orthodox tradition, with that, you would have come across Apocatastasis and Colossians 1:17-20.

Apocatastasis, an idea started by Origen and popularized by St. Gregory of Nyssa postulate that hell punishment is practically more gold refinement which is burn to remove dross from it. It is not entirely a punishment all by itself but a process of refining and returning everything to holy Glories, peace and cooperation with God.

Lamentations 3:31 For the LORD will not cast off for ever:
3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

Reading further 1 Corinthians 15:28, you would find Paul state there is an end to evil, the act not the actor. When God is all in all, evil would be removed like dross from gold in the furnace, not the actor gangan.

Meanwhile, this idea was shot down with the famous anathemas pronounced at the Council of Constantinople in 543CE and church sold some nonsensical chastisement of sinners to you. Go and read bro.

I shouldn't be in position showing you all these. Make findings by yourself and the truth shall set you free.

Peace and bye

LordReed:
Yeah sure, that's why you relish the thought that your god will destroy all unbelievers. LoL

Yet again, ignorance is his problem. Breed of Christians from Nigeria are all dumbass, yet they don't know it.

The catholic constitution, De Fide Catholica Et De Ecclesia Christi, supported by St. Thomas Aquinas, declares that faith is gift from God. This implies that salvation is a supernatural virtue, inspired and assisted by divine grace. Therefore, atheists and non-believers, who are not gifted and graced with faith shouldn't be blame and same time not punished. I wonder where these Christian wannabe got their idea and logical conclusion that atheists and non-believers would be punished by God for not having a gift he personally refuse to give.

Grace and freewill still remain human thoughts. It steered a debate in the 16th century that forced Pope Clement VIII to commission Congregatio de Auxiliis. A decision has not been promulgated since then, but ho would take men idea with nothing different from nativity, birth, death, divine nature of Christ as settled in Council of Nicene serious. The general idea of God especially Christianity can be nauseating. I implore Shadeyinka and MaxInDHouse to spend time on ccel and jstor for they won't be running wild with unfathomable doctrines and believe contrary to the foundation of Christian bodies as a how.

shadeyinka:
I love first century Christians: they paid the price for the relative freedom we have now with their blood. I will like to die peacefully, but if not, if it's for the sake of Christ, so be it!

Tertullian. Lol! The blood of martyrs is the seed of the church.

You are a coward Shadeyinka. Go and die like your predecessors in faith.

shadeyinka:
Gods grace will see me through!

What do you know Shadeyinka?

Grace and freewill is one of those pious fraud which papal reconcile between Dominicans and the Jesuits in 16th century. Lol

Please go and read more sir

LordReed:
For where, this one still wan taste kitty. LMFAO!

His problem is ignorance and cowardice!

I have screengrabs of some document from jstor. It's about Christianity and suicide.... In the first century, Christians willfully commit suicide, Ignatius letter to Rome reveal it

https://biblehub.com/library/ignatius/the_epistle_of_ignatius_to_the_romans/chapter_iv_allow_me_to_fall.htm

shadeyinka:
Sounding like a broken record changes NOT the truth nor reality!
Your arrogance means NOTHING!

My life belongs to God, I leaver this place whenever it is His time. I'm always ready to go!

For You!?
You don't want to know!

All these because I presented with facts from the bible that God is malevolent, and showcasing that you are a religious bigot?

Chillax man!

I am asking Shadeyinka, what do you know about Christianity, martyrdom, death and orthodox tradition of the 1st century?

Funfact
Arrius Antoninus, the Proconsul of Asia in 185CE was approached by a group of Christians demanding to be executed. He obliged some and sent the rest away saying, if y'all wish to die, have you not enough rope to noose your neck and cliff they could jump off?

First century Christians don't wait for God to call them, they walk up to death. New generation Christians have weak faith, clouded with fear and uncertainty, and are cowards. Where do you belong?

LordReed, I love reading about first century Christians.

shadeyinka:
You are entitled to your own opinion. It's a free world!



Death to you is annihilation but you are pitifully wrong.

Death is homecoming!

Living is hellish and horrible. Pack n go home where it all bliss.

shadeyinka:
You are free to your own opinion. Opinions like yours have been known to be recklessly wrong.

Humble yourself and learn!

It is what is it. Your God has been proven to be wicked and malevolent. Cheers!

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus will surely exterminate all unbelievers {Luke 19:27} when his father gives him the order to do so! Psalms 110:1-2

But until then most of them still need Churchgoers like you to assist them in life!



So keep praying for them!

It about 10month now.. Wow! How time flies.

Remember a woman took care of that bill. Do not know her name, where she is from, or what she look like. I know she is an angel. Ènìyàn lá'sọ́ mí.

Schism everywhere..... Lol

LordReed:
Religious bigotry at its finest.

Thank goodness you saw that

shadeyinka:
Was God not glorified at his healing?

That was his sinister motive. Making people sick so that they can fall under his feet for healing.

shadeyinka:
It is you with poor thinking. You are the one who thinks that God will afflict 100,000 with blindness only to heal just one for bragging rights

Isn't that's the case today? Sickle cell disorder is by far the commonest inherited disorder in the world and three quarters of cases occur in Africa. We have over 10 million sickle cell carrier in Africa alone. Please tell sir, how many of these patients have your demonic God healed? How many are falling over themselves, languishing away their time, and emptying their pulse in your churches today?

Your God is just evil, he is a failure!

shadeyinka:
The child died and went back to its Creator: what's your business with that?

The child do die, he was killed by your God. Infanticide is a crime against humanity. Such a treasonous and evil God that kill innocent child rendered all around.

shadeyinka:
It's programmed by God in ALL living beings to do all to be alive.

I tell you, if God calls me home now, I'm good to go!

I am peace with either I live or die now!

You said living is horrible, move into bliss of death by committing suicide.

shadeyinka:
Sickness is an integral part of the fallen world.

Fallen/evil world created by God?

shadeyinka:
Jesus simply corrected the erroneous views of his disciples

And added that those afflictions were served for the glorification of God and himself.

shadeyinka:
I can see the logic. Create a pandemic and profit by selling just one bottle of drug.

Great strategy!

Poor thinking.

John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

The blind boy, his parents, jew who questioned him,and those who knew he was blind before. How many were they? How many believed? How many went on worshipping Jesus?

Even in the case of Lazarus
John 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.

Isn't this courting of loyalty?

What do you think people do in the church? Worshiping God and Jesus to resolve a dilemma they had initially created.

shadeyinka:
And the child died and went back to it's source.

How is that your business?

He afflicted the child with a disease, and have him dead unjustly. This wickedness and complete evil. Such a God can only be demon

shadeyinka:
To the living death is horrible!
To the dead, death is bliss!

If death is bliss, why are you still alive? You should have taken that horrible life of yours.

shadeyinka:
I can understand that you are tied to this Earth with the "earth bounds" living their lives in you.

It is evolutionary survival of fitness... No one live for anyone.

shadeyinka:
Lazarus was sick, sickness has always been part of this world.

Sickness is integral doing of God.

shadeyinka:
That's your opinion.

Until people like your kind are evicted from this world, pain and misery is expected.

People like you should become stone and not die..

MaxInDHouse:
If we are all Jehovah's Witnesses 99% of the problems we have on this planet will be gone.
What we will be battling with then is oldage and death. No more wars, food shortages, bag governance, crimes will be things of the past!

All the religions on this planet are fake if their members can't come out boldy to say the same thing.

That's why we (JWs) don't blame God.

He has given us the Bible to help mankind solve all issues resulting from the way man is treating his fellowman on this planet. But how many people are taking in the wisdom from above?
Well out of about 9,000,000,000 inhabitants of the earth only about 9,000,000 availed themselves for divine wisdom. So God's word says only those adhering STRICTLY to divine wisdom will enjoy relative LOVE, JOY and PEACE within their gathering. Micah 4:1-3
That's why God said all other inhabitants of the earth that failed to take in this divine wisdom will be exterminated! John 3:16

Preach on.

shadeyinka:
He didn't need to.
His disciples thought that either the man or his parents had commited a sin to be visited by such a calamity. Jesus position was that no: the man's problem isn't because of his sins just like millions of others in the world.

This is you telling us, without bible reference, that he didn't need to inform his disciples that the cause of the young man blindness is the sin of some distance ancestors. The disciples wouldn't have asked any question if they were in the known. Jesus answer shows that the blindness isn't caused by anyone's sin but just so that God healing ability can be manifested through the innocent man. This is some kind of gratification.

shadeyinka:
So, for God to show that He could heal blindness, you think it makes sense for God to create one million blind people only to cure one?
What about the 999,000 remaining blind people?

You know that pandemic can be created to sell a medicine or corner loyalty. It happens in the medical and computer world. And when such happens, it is classified as crime against humanity, a sheer wickedness.

Was it not God who afflicted Uriah-David Child with sickeness?

2 Samuel 12:15 ESV. Then Nathan went to his house. And the Lord afflicted the child that Uriah's wife bore to David, and he became sick.

Was he not the one who court loyalty with disease and antidote?

Exodus 15:26 ESV Saying, “If you will diligently listen to the voice of the Lord your God, and do that which is right in his eyes, and give ear to his commandments and keep all his statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you that I put on the Egyptians, for I am the Lord, your healer.”

shadeyinka:
In other words, you think God made Lazarus sick, so that he can die and Jesus will go there to raise him?
Did Lazarus truely die?
Did Jesus resurrect Lazarus?

Are you agreeing that God can resurrect a dead person?

Lazarus was made sick, left to die, and his loved ones in mourning mood. God proclaimed according to the bible there is nothing he can't do. Resurrection is good, but the preemptive purpose Lazarus resurrection is to glorify himself and Jesus. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have allow Lazarus to fall sickin the first place. That is self gratification, wickedness and evil move.

shadeyinka:
Just look at your logic and determine if it has any common sense in it. There are thousands of blind people in the world, but God has to specially create one so that He can claim to heal him?

Khai!

If he is good, he would healed all the sick and blind all at once

shadeyinka:
His parents too inherited it from their first ancestors hence, they weren't the primary cause of his blindness.

Was the blindness of the man not cured by God!?
Then Gods works is made manifest in his life!

Jesus could have easily spelled it out that the primary cause of the guy blindness is Adam or far distance ancestors sin if that was the case. The guy eye was defected because God wanted to show proof that he is able to heal blindness. That is what Jesus meant by manifestation of God work.

Reading little further, John 11:3 KJV: "When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby."

As you can see above, just like the case in 9:3, these purposes of God was imminent for his own gratification. Can you imagine that? God created this young man without sight, left in total darkness, sufferings, tedious struggle for survival, left on the street begging for many years because he want himself glorified. This is like inflicting people with a deadly disease and at same time selling the cure. If this isn't wickedness, I don't know what else it is.