₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
I think you confuse yourself between two distinct positions..

Me last i checked i have shown my stance on causality is "I don't know" until it is established empirically

I asked you to explain how the singularity magically appeared and this was your reply:

johnydon22:
Nope not at all.. there have been many cosmological models to explain that which of course are all hypothetical and so must be treated as one.
-Quantum fluctuation
-Energy as an internal value (Energy and matter are relative)
-Multiverse
etc...
But that part takes you into the field of quantum mechanics. . . .

You choosed some model to explain. . . . .

Explaining your point with these models proves that:

1. You are beyond belief. You are admitting that the models are fatual

2. Explaining a model, which you have accepted as a knowledge is a justified belief.

3. This belief is nothing different religion belief. You only sugarcoat yours as model and cover it with scientific veils.

johnydon22:


One mistake you guys do with science is that most of you tend to treat scientific postulations as an immutable dogmatized assertion.

Science is a method of consistent study and systematic deductions in order to reach a truthful approximation and there is no time it asserts to have reached absolute truth because it recognizes chances of being wrong..

Are you now admitting that Big bang, quatum fluntuation and M string is wrong?

Why bringing your scientific myth into this discussion? To save face?

johnydon22:


Stereotypes can only make fallacious representations... I am positive most people differ in their stance on causality..

Mojority of atheists view the world materially and will explain it origin materially employing big bang theory

johnydon22:


I am sure you need to start representing a value as it is and stop stereotypes. .

I see no reason you have to give the same measure for religion. Not everything they accounted for is myth.

johnydon22:


Nope understand my assertion.. I was referring to Quantum fluctuation in relation to Big bang theory not independently..

Still only possible in paper and not in reality.

johnydon22:


Seriously for goodness sake i was simply teaching you the actual propositions of the big bang theory.

when will you people learn that teaching someone what a theory says is not same as believing it ..

am sure i started by stating am not a Big Bang theorist but you go ahead and make the same mistake.

I didnt ask you to teach me. I asked you to explain the magical appearance of the Cosmos singularity which you did wih a fallacious model which cannot be substantiated in reality.

johnydon22:
[b][i] A never ending chain of events (Causality)

Eleduamare is infinite possibilities. So Yes

menesheh:
I will repeat this, i don't know the meaning of big bang.

All i care is that no body should worship anything wether big bang or come from nothing or designerr.

Vooks, winners01, kingebukasblog. Make una come see o. My nigggggga changing tone. I dont know what big bang is.


Menesheh, I assume the problem you have with God is because people tend to worship it. Am I right here?


Now how do you define worship? Worship simply means acknowledging the worth of something or someone.

You worship a lot of things even without you knowing. This does not make thoses things non-existent.

menesheh:
All i see are hate speeches everywhere. Seems i ve touch some people where it pains.

If you're angle, so fuccking what?


Here we are, let me know how you later joined bunch of people who want to sell invisible commodity to us


My advice is that you should not take it personal. Am addressing some sets of believes propagating falsehood as if it is true. Am not attacking anybody but rather attacking the ideology itself that's why i desist from using words directly to anybody.

Mr pls tone down. No one is fighting you. This is all fun. . . .for free sundays.

Big bang theory you are hanging on is mythical, unfounded and unrealistic just like religious account.

The fact is, believing in the theory of something coming out of nothing is myopic and plain silly just like religious folks who believe Goddidit

johnydon22:


I have never seen a scientist come out to insist these hypothesis are true until proven to be..

No one need believe and insist a hypothesis is true, that is the difference between a scientific hypothetical postulation and a religious dogma.

One insists it is true and must be held as immutable while the other agrees to be a speculation that may be wrong until supported by facts.

Neptune was once a hypothetical prediction by observing a little distortion of Uranus orbit.. until it was observed in actuality to be a planet.

People should not hold hypothesis as truths but just a speculation of enquiry, to hold a hypothesis as truth is absurd..

Oh but you were using an hypothesis which does not have proof and cannot be authenticated as fact to explain origin of a provable and existing universe.

The theists tend to explain the universe with God. . .an unproveable character.

While atheists are employing non-factual hypothesis to explain the origin of our universe.

Isnt this the same hypocrisy vook was arguing about? Y'all tend to rule theists claim as myth while your own claim as fact.

The point remains that atheists, science society is no different from religious folks who tend to explain things with unprovable substance.

johnydon22:


Quantum fluctuation is an actual phenomenon though the issue here is that no scientist is asserting it was the case in the big bang.

I think you need to read the theory to grasp what it really propose.. i have never seen magically appear from no where

I hope you once agreed with me that there is no prove to this quatum fluntuation.

However, you keep throwing it here and there, forcing it on me like it is a fatual proposition and provable evidence to origin of the universe. The point is that you are not different from the religionist who you accuse of spreading myths.

M string, multiverse and the other hypothesis are not facts and are relatively myths just like God.

johnydon22:


And by so doing you stereotyped every atheist. . i only showed you SOME theists agree with it just like SOME atheists.

i believe it should have been better if you used SOME

agree to this.

johnydon22:


Ok so it progresses into an infinite regression?

what is infinite regression pls

johnydon22:


Lol.. Ok





This is exactly my stance.. We have limited knowledge, let us study not assume..

It's better to agree when one doesn't know than fill the gap with assumption and attendant behaviours..

I guess the reason why vooks and winners were hitting menesheh is because menesheh like other atheists categorically termed religion account as myth while the big-bang alternative is illogical, dumb and plain silly as something cannot come from nothing.

Atheists clings on science as tag it as truth while he calls religion accounts myth.

Notice on one among the theists argued against there account been myth. They rather argued;

- your alternate explanation is fallacy. Something/nothing thang. This is hypocrisy when one myth is seen as truth and other is seen as superstition.

- Menesheh turn around to say he is not a scientist. Then he have no right to call religious account myth when he has no counter theory. Hence he should shut the hell

johnydon22:

Nope not at all.. there have been many cosmological models to explain that which of course are all hypothetical and so must be treated as one.

-Quantum fluctuation
-Energy as an internal value (Energy and matter are relative)
-Multiverse

etc...

But that part takes you into the field of quantum mechanics. . . .

No proof for all these.

The hypothesis is nothing different from religious accounts.

johnydon22:

But last i checked you are an atheist too and am sure you do not buy the big bang theory or have studied much about it.

There is no relationship between the big bang and atheism.. Many Atheists as well as Theists agree with the theory.

If you apply the big bang to atheism because some atheist adopt the theory then you can also term it a theistic theory because some theists also adopts it.

In fact a catholic priest Msgnr Georges Lamitre propounded the theory.. Big bang is a scientific theory, has nothing to do with theism or atheism..

I support big bang theory but to some extent. It is observable even with the naked eye that the universe is expanding. No doubt about that. But the problem I have with this theory has to do with something magically appearing from nothing.

Secondly, I am not arguing a catholic priest didnt propound big bang theory. I stated categorically that atheists use the theory to explain the origin of the universe thereby ruling out creator God and Goddidit theory.

johnydon22:


Ok but Eleduamare was caused by what?

remember you said this

So what is this Eleduamare ?

Is this Eleduamare excluded from your assertion above ?

In Yoruba spirituality, Gods have father and son. However, they are silent on whom was the father or mother of Eledumare. So we dont know and dont care.

johnydon22:


To me what you were doing on the thread was quite childish... If you didn't want to argue at least picking on someone should not be a resort to catch fun..

It could be fun when I know someone is on the floor grasping for breathe when God fellas were hitting him hard.

I should have changed my channel to WWE. All the same it was a debate and I took side with the heavyweightier.

johnydon22:


Exactly .. tho the bolded is not necessary true ..

The question is " what did?"

And remember that going by this your above assertion, that thing that caused something must also have been caused by another which in turn requires another right?

Yes.

Knowledge is limited and we can speak within the frame of our own knowledge. Making a claim on finite brain measuring infinite cause will only lead to fallacy like we have around here. This will always make me follow Yoruba spirituality. They dont know it and silent on it.

johnydon22:
I just did and the fact is that you didn't read it. Because if you do you would have seen it proposed a Singularity.

The site you brought up is a quite basic, i would have preferred you read more about the theory sir because misrepresenting what one doesn't really know doesn't make sense.

Big Bang doesn't propose NOTHING..

It proposes an Energy SINGULARITY.. hot, dense that underwent a rapid inflation then expansion which brought about Space/time and subatomic and atomic particles (matter)

I am not a big bang theorist but at least i do not need to misrepresent the theory in order to employ baseless ridicule based on ignorance ..

The point you are trying to shift is that, prior to this singularity, there was nothing. How does the singularity magically appear?

johnydon22:
[b][i]And secondly Big Bang theory has nothing to do with someone being an atheist

Atheists tend to choice it for explaining origin of our universe thereby ruling out existence of God and clamping down Goddidit theory.

johnydon22:


Bull eye!!!

I will like you to answer this: How do you think the universe came to be?

Just tell me what you personally think

Good question.

I personally embrace the Yoruba spirituality view of the universe. We see Eleduamare as the creator of the universe

johnydon22:


I read through this thread, you are not really arguing here.. Just making sassy childish remarks, picking on menesheh and making jest.. Its quite demeaning and childish.

I was johnny walking on a free sunday. . .not here for argument but did found a spot of fun.

Vooks and winners slaughtering menesheh.

It fun not to be enjoyed within a little timeframe but had to call out Godless fellas so as to prolong the fun.

johnydon22:
Now You claim to be an atheist but a spiritual one, pray tell sir.. what is your own stance on causality.. ?

Lets see how well your own stance on causality is placed

For something to exist, something will surely cause it.

johnydon22:


I am not a big bang theorist but i can rightly tell you the bolded is wrong .. You have never read about the theory.

there is no where it ever asserts NOTHING sir.. Please where did you see it..

Let me go on a scientific discussion on the Big Bang now to correct the naive representation of the theory..

Can you please read this?

Big Bang Theory - The Premise

The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

johnydon22:
Says Einstein who had no religion.. Ironic right?

Einstein was a pantheist.

KingEbukasBlog:
@ FOLYKAZE ... I need to be certain about your stance on religion . Are agnostic or religious ?

I am not a religion person. . . .but I dont throw everything religion out of the window. esp, Yoruba traditional religion.

I tend to express Gods as Natural entities. Like Yemoja been Body of water. . .I expressed her as Icy comet in the creation account. Oshun is fresh water while Olokun is Salty water. Jehovah to me is an unexplainable volcanic eruption.

menesheh:
Universe out of nothing is the most fallacious claim in science society.


I don't care. I care what's true. It seems science community love it when you criticize and bring out the flaws of any scientific fact. They will even dash you some million dollars and make a celeb for disproven them. On like religion that sentence ony one who wanted to help them come outer their delusion to death row.

We are concerned why you took IMPOSSIBLE as science and regard religion stories which are mostly in metaphor as myth.

All this would be put at rest when and only you see big bang something out of nothing theory as mythology.

menesheh:
Seems the arguments is pretty turning childish one.

Even if i should i agree with you that modern science is rooted in spiritualism and religion which i don't really agree, we are no longer trekking the trek to far distance places with foot, we now use cars, airplane, sophisticated ship etc, then we changed.

Science had gone far from primitive to advance. Previously, people do cast demons as the cause of some illness but we now know that those sicknesses were cause by tiny bacterias, virus etc and have been developing vaccines and medications for that aspect, it continued to be consistent.

Science have discovered pretty much thing in recent centuries and the causes of those phenomena and events that medieval men attributed to known unknowns causations are now known to be false.

There many more things to discover as time rolls. So religion is such an irrelevant postulation of ancient naive men. Aristotle was so brilliant and smart guy during his time but presently, a boy of 14 can teach him things that will waw him. That's the journey from simplicity to complexity.

The most dangerous thing that can happen to a 21st century smart person is intentionally assuming ignorance and not conforming with the changes we are witnessing. Then continue to thrive in ancient scribbings.

Einstein said: "Religion without science is blind, science without religion is lame"

menesheh:
I don't know. I've been repeating myself severally here but to deaf ears. Am only disbelieving your unsubstantiated claims of a deity that caused all. I never asserted anything.

We are also disbelieve Big-bang claim that the universe came from Nothing.

Universe out of nothing is the most fallacious claim in science society.

menesheh:
The difference between me and you is that i disbelieve in your religious claims and desist from doing anything with it because it is utterly useless but you attack science and still live every bit of your life on the product of such nonsensical science.

Modern science have it root in ancient spiritualism and religion. The fact that you enjoy inventions of modern science have it credit given back to it original source which is ancient spiritualism and religion.

Alchemy gives birth to Chemistry.

Astrology gives birth to astronomy.

Psychology as it is known have root in ancient spiritualism.

We are only trying to relate ancient spiritualism with modern science but you are hell bent trying to seperate the two

vooks:
Am still patiently waiting to to hear which of these is more ret@rded
1. 'In the Beginning God....'
2. 'In the Beginning Nothing...'

You come across as a wannabe thinker and am pressed to know how any thinking primate entertains 1 as mythical and 2 as 'science'.

It takes special effort to miss this hypocrisy

Where is weigraf, Johnydon22, plaetton, dalaman and ifeness?

This guy will kill someone here

vooks:
If you are any literate, it should have been apparent by now that calling the IMPOSSIBLE science and calling its alternative mythical is hypocrisy

Chai

menesheh:
I dont know and am still waiting patiently to hear your arguments on how you came to the conclusion that it is a sky fairy that created it all.

It baffles me how someone accuses religion folks of holding unto myth while he believes the whole universe comes out of nothing.

Your Something from Nothing myth is dumber than God

menesheh:
Strawman. They are making crazy arguments. Is not about taking sides. If there are votes on that note, then...

Fallacies everywhere but i dont care, i care much about audience reading through.

Explain the something from nothing myth in big bang to us pls

Menesheh should call on the remaining army of his for help. You are trapped between two wovles and you gonna be shreded into pieces inside your own thread.

Vooks and winners tearing menesheh without mercy

The OP view about religion is polarized and hypocritical.

Myth is defined as a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

Myth is not presented as a fatual account. It present itself as a word, narration through which an observable natural event, social phenomenon are expressed.

Myth is a popular belief that can contain false characters, stories, or incorrect facts, but it can bear true characters, stories and correct facts, too. This is why myths deserve proper analyses in order to find what is true and what is not embelled it. The character might not exist. . . . But when the story are been analyzed, we can unravel facts and truth in the myth story.

Before one understand myth, we need to put in consideration Euhemerism, Allegory, Personification and Symbolism. People like the op sees myth as false account because he took the account on literally. Myth began as allegorical descriptions of nature, but gradually came to be interpreted literally. In religion, fire and rain are personified as personal god, only those who try to look at these accounts on the literal surface will see them as false. Myth does hold truth metaphorically.


According to ancient mythology Cronus (saturn) was wrapped in chains and cast out of the Heavens by Zeus (jupiter). Saturn has rings, of course, and what these people may have witnessed was Jupiter passing its rings to Saturn.

Also, Ares (mars) was struck by a bolt of lightning which scarred his face. This could actually have been our ancestors witnessing the devastation of Mars

Johnnyessence:
in all apc candidate still leading

Guy you need to recheck the results again

Marvin67:
Those results are from Nembe (that's if it is true). Silva is a Nembe man. Even GEJ and Dickson were not expecting Nembe people to vote for PDP. Nembe is fully for Silva. If you go to Ogbia, Amasuma, Otueke, you'd see PDP winning with a high margin. Overall, it's a 50-50 election. Too close to call

Thanks for the info. I dont know anything about Bayelsa politics. The people should decide for themselves who they believe can move the state forward. But I wish APC can have it

The tide is changing o.

APC abeg this is a must win

Salute to this OP. Everything he said is nothing but truth.

ABDamola:
Bayelsa Polls:

Ward 5 Unit 7 NEMBE
PDP26, APC 80

Ward 5 unit 8 Nembe
PDP 13. APC 49

Ward 5 unit 9 Nembe
PDP 12. APC 57

#BayelsaDecides

This result will triger heart-attack for some PDP members.

I thought Bayelsa is PDP state? Very risky dikwa, I feel ashame for GEJ.

macof:
Oodua has oil in lagos and Ondo states...and with the possibility of Itsekiri joining Oodua

So banking can only function in a country with large oil reserves? Pls I need an answer to this question. .

Yorubas have agriculture, tourism, entertainment, art and textile, natural resources including crude oil and gold, we have access to the ocean, countless rivers and waterways plus our illustrious human resources

We don't need non yoruba Niger delta oil


What has our diversity given us so far? What has our position in Africa given us? How much better is nigeria than Benin Republic?
Just look at a country where nothing works, nothing! There's only resentment, bigotry, urge for political dominance, lack of nationalism/patriotism. All this will end in a homogeneous state under an independent government

Lol. . .this guy no go kill me.

Oodua has all these and SW states have not become London?

tuniski:
how? PDP will win the two slots and that will be plus to the saraki support base even more solidly than them being apc renegades. The more pdp in NASS, the more Dogara and saraki are protected till election time in 2019 when they will decamp to pdp. Apc is a scam arranged by a gang with buhari as the face. The streets ain't smiling and stoning might soon follow.

CCT and Armsgate will do the job

ahaz:
if crowd dey win election gej for win.

Guy you are wrong o.

The crowd in Kaduna when GEJ visited cannot be compare to when PMB visited.

You need to relate that to crowd that follow GEJ and PMB in the south east. Sometimes crowd matters

And who is the man with GEJ hat? Did Niger Delta send delegates?

Them Saraki' boys have been cut short.

Victory for democracy

Bj5all:
I didn't have the time to take many pictures, they are very many. There is serious hold up in Aba Road because of this rally.

Young youths should be more concern about their future instead of running after politicians because of very little stipend

You have a point.

But from the pics here and the one released for APC, I can conclude that PDP is dying fast.

Bj5all:
Thousands of youths were among them, despite it's not bad to protect ur interest but all I see is high rate of youth unemployment.
Which working person will leave their source of livelihood and embark on a rally that will have no significant impact in their lives.

Where are the thousands youth from the pics?