₦airaland Forum

FreshGreen: CHRISTMAS QUESTION!

Q - Is Christmas in the Bible?

A- According to English Dictionary, Christmas simply means the celebration of the birth of Christ. So to put the question clear, we can ask, "Is there any place in the Bible where the birth of Christ was celebrated?" The answer is Yes!

Luke 2:11-14
For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.”

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:

14 “Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”

Either you believe in the celebration of Christmas or not, that makes no difference; the fact that you recognize Christmas does not make Jesus to recognize you if you have not been genuinely saved, and also the fact that you do not recognize Christmas or your church does not believe in celebrating Christmas does not make you or your church a Bible Christian or church.

The fact that the angels rejoiced at the instant of christ's birth is no justification for customary birthday celebration of his birth. Such rejoicing was common each time something remarkable came to be. Recall that over the birth of the planet earth, the angels did rejoice. So, should we go ahead and be celebrating the birthday of the earth? Bullshit!!! Such custom was only common among the pagans. They customarily celebrated their birthdays, even that of their sun god. Do you know better than Jesus, who neither celebrated his birthday nor commanded you to do so?

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth ? ...When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:4-6 KJV The angels rejoiced over the birth of the planet earth, so, let be celebrating it yearly.

BETTER FOR QUESTIONS:

Q- Have you been genuinely saved since you have been a Christian?

Q - Have you been bearing the Fruit of the Spirit since you have been saved?

You will only be saved when you endure to the end. Fruit of the spirit must be born prior to salvation, not vice versa.

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13 KJV

Q - Is your name written and still remains in the Book of Life?

A - The answers will only come from you.

From RTEM, Revelation of Truth Evangelical Minidtries

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This is event of the judgement day - the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. No one can peer into it. Read Rev. 20:11-15

teebcool: I get what the OP is trying to say. I was under the message actually and I can say he's being quoted "out of context" sort of. Anyways, I think Christmas worths being celebrated because it's a day we use to mark the birth of Jesus Christ into the world. Yes, no one knows the exact date of birth of Christ, but a day was chosen for that purpose, so, why not? Even though the day might have had pagan origin, it's the motive behind your celebration that matters. Sunday used to be a day ancient Greeks used to worship the sun(or something like that) yet we now use it to worship God nowadays. The Holy Bible didn't directly command us to worship his birth, but angels kinda laid the precedence, they celebrated him, so, why shouldn't we. How do you know Jesus was actually killed during easter? We just take it dah way, because we have a time to actually rejoice that the savior died for us, so, I personally don't see anything wrong in celebrating Christmas, although my parents won't, but it's not gonna hurt, this will be my first Christmas that doesn't start or end in camp, so. ... .. ..Merry Christmas everyone .... . And a Happy New Year in advance

Merely having the right motive does not justify why christ's birthday should be celebrated. When the Israelites made "a feast to the LORD" (Ex. 32), their motive was not bad, yet, it was condemned.

Birthday celebrations were practiced millenniums before Jesus' birth. Bible accounts show they were practiced by pagans. Jesus was more than 30 years old when he died. Could it be that he forgot to celebrate his birthday, or was too busy in the ministry to do so? Supposing he forgot, or was too busy, what about his early disciples? The truth is, birthday celebration had never been associated with the worshipers of the true God.

Jesus, shortly before his death, gave us something with which he should be remembered:

"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19 KJV

"For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night in which he was betrayed took bread, For every time you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.". 1 cor. 11:23,26 New English Translation.

Jesus' choice of his day of death for his commemoration is in consistent with Ecc 7:1. "A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth"

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward". Matthew 6:5 (KJV)

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking". Matthew 6:7 (KJV)

"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law (of God), even his prayer shall be abomination." Proverbs 28:9 (KJV)

"Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings." Micah 3:4 (KJV)

"Yet even when you do pray, your prayers are not answered, because you pray just for selfish reasons". James 4:3 (CEV)

Prayer is a form of worship. If you pray before graven things, or images, is that going to please God?
"I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images." Isaiah 42:8 (ASV)

And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter," should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? Isaiah 8:19 (NKJV)

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. (7) For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord." James 1:6-7 (NKJV)

Many do not pray to the father, but to the son. Many even direct their prayers to "saints". Such prayers are through who? To Jesus through Jesus, or to "saints" through Jesus? It must always be to the father (the almighty) through the son (our mediator and ransomer)

David, in one of his songs, described Jehovah as the hearer of prayer. (Psm 65:2)

Jesus prayed, not to himself, but to his father alone. He taught us to direct our prayers to His father alone, the only true God.

"Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You," John 17 (NKJV)

"So He said to them, When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven," Luke 11:2a (NKJV)

Sermwell: Haba bros! If you are born again you go know Jesus na!lolz

Are you born again?

fijiano202: Whatcanfa....its forrking Wrong lol though its not written in the bible,pls read S-L-O-W-L-Y in my own OPINION it is wrong

What makes it wrong?

flexybrain: I wanna know if it is wrong for a woman of God 2 sell beer. It all happened when I and my friends went 2 buy drinks and get high wen sumbody suddenly shouted and pointed at d shop "Na wa ooo,General Overseer wife don dey sell beer"?

It is right for you and your friends to drink and get high, because you are "men of satan", but it is wrong for her to sell beer, because she is "a woman of God".

Sermwell: Hello nairalanders,
If early morning of christmas day, you hear a knock on your door, you open and found Jesus christ standing right before you, what will you say to Him??(In just one sentence)
Thanks!

You knew him before? Well, I would ask him when and how he used to celebrate his birthday.

majour: please can someone answer this question for me

There is physical heaven and spiritual heaven.

God does not reside in the physical heavens, being a Spirit. He resides in spiritual heaven - a supreme or ultimate position.

From his supreme or ultimate position, God, in effect, 'bends down' upon the physical heavens and earth:

(5) There is no one like the LORD our God. He lives in the heights above, (6) but he bends down to see the heavens and the earth. Psalms 113:5-6 (GNT)

God was in his place of abode when he created the heavens and the earth.

tpia1: There are very few things in this world which do not have a pagan or non christian origin, if we really want to analyze stuff.

You are correct, but I think it's wise to do away with the ones we are sure of, especially, if we involve God in it.

However, in the case of christian holidays, it is still not sure if non christians are the ones taking over christian celebrations or the other way round.

I am sure it's the other way round - Christians christianized pagan customs. What I am trying to be sure of is God's view of the matter.

I know paganism is wrong, but this Christmas thing,....I grew up with it, it's hard to let it go, besides, how will friends and family members react?

khattab02: @ first bolded, you ought to worship God the way God has stated to be worshipped in the scripture, not the way church fathers agreed universally. '' if christmas pleases you go ahead'' is God approve of it or does it pleases God? If you don't know or not sure, leave it. You ought to please God the way God wants to be pleased not the way you want to please God.

You really make sense here. But does it really matter, considering the fact that we will all be saved by Grace?

You say if I am in doubt should leave it, is there any scripture that says we must be sure of all things?

Lol@ second bolded, assumptions. 33 years and no record about his birthday? That's absurd. Not only the disciples o, the early christians too didn't know as such didn't practise it.

There are many today older than 33 that can't really tell when they were born.

Recall that birthday celebration pre-existed Jesus' earthly life. Granted, perfect man he was, thus, could not have forgotten his birthday. Also, if that was important to him he could have made out time for it, or told us to do it later. Nevertheless, I think it does not really matter, since we are doing it to the LORD. Note that God knows our motives, besides, we will be saved by His grace.

I must confess, I am a bit confused.

[quote]@ third bolded, God spoke strongly against such practises in the old scriptures.

Is there anything like "the old scriptures"? Lol... You mean OT? I read Exodus 32:5-7 that was quoted by op, it's about the wayward Israelites who made feast to the LORD. They worshiped molten calf. That was pagan way of worship, no doubt, and was condemned. I am still thinking about it to see how it relates to Christmas. Can you or op shed a little light to enable me see the point(s)?

tpia1: Instances where there is a difference of opinion.

Rather than argue endlessly, we are to bear with one another and forgo whatever theological exegesis is causing the division.


In this case, a believer who celebrates christmas but is in the middle of other believers who don't, can decide not to observe it if doing so will cause others to question their beliefs.

The last part is my opinion.

Ok, I can see.

The differences were majorly on things they used to practice under the mosaic law. In Christian Era, many of such were no longer necessary, though many adherents found it difficult to do away with them. Birthday celebration had never been associated with or reported among the worshipers of the true God - both in pre-Christian and Christian Era, as op pointed. Celebration of christ's birthday was later introduction. Its pagan roots is still my concern. Thanks though for your opinion.

tpia1: If you are with people who feel strongly about celebrating christmas, you can forgo it for their sake, its not mandatory per se and the bible does mention in such instances, we are to bear with one another.

Assuming for example, everybody in your vicinity does not observe christmas and consider it a pagan festival, it would be wiser to abstain for the meantime.

The bolded appears good, was it about Christmas/pagan-related celebrations? The scripture, please.


If you also believe that Christmas celebration is pagan-related, would it be wiser to abstain from it for the sake of man or for the sake of God?

ITbomb: Christmas celebration is not an act of worship, it is just a remembrance please and celebration of God's gift of love

Christmas celebration has a lot to do with worship. It is more than just...

Worship entails a lot. Christmas celebration is fabricated into our worship.

My concern is with the pagan stuff...is God truly happy with it?

'We will be saved by His grace, so worship Him the way it was universally agreed by our church fathers. If it pleases you to celebrate Christmas, go ahead and celebrate, it will please God too. Recall that He is a happy God, so, He wants us, his children to be happy too.

It's possible that Jesus and the early disciples forgot, or were too busy to celebrate christ's birthday. It could also be that they celebrated, but since everything was not recorded then, the Holy Spirit later revealed to our church fathers what we must do as a remembrancer and a mark of appreciation for the ransome sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Christianisation of those pagan customs were God-revealed/given strategies to put an end to those pagan customs and bring their practicers to the warm embrace of The Lord Jesus Christ. Remember, God does not desire any man to be destroyed.

Omarionlove3, you are right about the history of Christmas celebration, but would like to reiterate: 'we will be saved by His grace', not by avoidance or embrace of paganism in our worship, can you or anyone disprove this?'

Bidam: Stick to what i said.Don't misquote me.I said the Word(God) John 1 became flesh.14.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth". John 1:14

"And the word was made flesh,..."

The word is the only begotten son of the almighty God. There is no doubt that he was made flesh. Is that the proof of the son's almightiness?

Bidam: The word(God) became flesh.

You can't beat that scripture, no matter your twists and turns.

No scripture says the almighty became flesh.

Pastor Olu T: 17/07/2010

RAPTURE


When the end comes, the earth will not come to literal end, things will still remain the same (normal), the unbelieving will still remain unbelieving still, businesses will move on as usual and there will not be any unusual signs from what is happening in the world but the scriptures says suddenly Christ will appear in the atmosphere, when Christ appear in the atmosphere, only those that will be going with Him will see Him, they will be transformed and caught up with Him in the atmosphere, they will disappear and vanish from the earth, so at that time there will report all over the world of missing people just as the scriptures says in Mathew 24 that two people will be on the bed and one person will be taken and the other left, two people will be grinding on the mill and one will be taken and the other left, two will be in the field one will be taken and the other left, there will be reports all over the world that people have suddenly vanished, yet some will still not understand what all these is about and not believe still but give incredulous meanings to all that is happening, just like the first time the Hoy Spirit came to indwell man in the book of Acts of the apostles chapter 2 And the apostles spoke in different tongues, giving praise to the Lord, and those that where present started giving all sort of meanings to all that is happening , so it will be at that time when Christ will come and even worse because there will be no Christian (believer) on earth to accurately explain the happenings unlike the day of Pentecost just as Peter did.
As the bible says there will great pain in the world at that time as a result of the rapture, places of the earth being in different time zones will create so much problems as at the time of Jesus second coming , some will be at day while some will be at night which will bring about different kinds of accidents, there will be plane crash allover because if it be that the pilot suddenly disappear while the plane is in the air, there will also be car crash all over for all kinds of reasons and houses burnt, may be people are cooking or using home appliances during the time of their flight. There will be all kinds of accidents even some not even thought of will occur on that day of Rapture which will bring about so many loss of lives and many will go to Hell that day because once you did not go with the Rapture, it means if you die in those accidents, you go to Hell. Though many people will still remain on earth but the good news about it is that some will believe the scripture due to all they have seen during the Rapture and have been told before the Rapture.

Those that finally believe will go through so many persecutions like never before the creation of the world. During the rebuilding of the world (As at that time the whole world will be in total chaos and destruction), a man would rise who would appear to be a man of peace because he will bring about peace on earth (world), he would be a very intelligent man, who would be made ruler of the whole world and which during his reign, the world would enjoy peace and blissfulness which it never had experienced since man left the garden of Eden. Things will remain normal and even better, Christianity (Religion) will still remain and there will be so much hypocrisy like never before, so many false prophet will rise deceiving many and even themselves, in fact any child born into the world at that period, will never know if anything like the Rapture had taken place because things will be as normal as it can be for a particular period of time. After some time God will start pouring out His bowl of wrath on the inhabitant of the earth and there will so much terrible times, earthquakes and so many natural disaster will befall the earth, during this time so many that believed after the Rapture will fall and some that still remain in their believes will face so many persecutions because there will be so much conspiracy against them, it will be widely believed that they are the ones responsible for all the disaster that is happening on earth and hereby so many will be cast into prison and some killed because they belong to the way or sect which is what it will be called then, this will go on for three and half years, which at first people will start receiving the 666 marks (Mark of the beast) unknowingly in other to do business and when it becomes known it will be too late for anyone to repent. Anyone that do not have the mark will not be allowed to do business of any kind and those that do not will be hunted down and killed, but before you are killed you will be given the last opportunity to receive the mark. At this time the beast (Anti christ) will come out openly and demand worship from which if you do not you will be killed, this will take place for the next three and half years.

Jesus Christ will come back after the second three and half years, destroy the beast, the false prophets, and those with the beast mark and cast them into the lake of fire but those that do not receive the mark of the beast will still remain on earth. Christ will establish His kingdom here on earth for one thousand years, which Satan will be bound for this period so that he can no longer deceive the people of the world, and at this time the earth will become a paradise and return back to as it was when it was first created.
Jesus is coming back soon, there is no doubt about that, if you would like to be Raptured when He comes back, the only reasonable thing for you to do is to be right with Him so when He comes, you will go with Him.

You make it appear as if the "rapture" will be escape plan for Christians from the great tribulation. The bible shows both the righteous and unrighteous will experience the great tribulation.

"(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". Matthew 24:21-22 (KJV)

This does not say that "the elects" will all have been taken to heaven before the great tribulation, does it? Rather, it holds out the prospect to them, along with associates in the flesh, of surviving that great tribulation on earth.

"(9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; (10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. (14) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:9-10,14 (KJV)

To "come out" of something a person must go into it or be in it. So this great multitude must be persons who actually experience the great tribulation and come out of it as survivors.

Pastor Olu T: 17/07/2010

RAPTURE

INTRODUCTION

For the lord Himself shall descend from heaven with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God and the dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air, so we will always be with the Lord.
1Thesalonians 4:16-17

Some says since Rapture is not stated verbatim in the bible, it means that there is no Rapture, but the scripture we are considering clearly point to Rapture, so we look at Rapture in the light of this scripture and other related scriptures.
Rapture is the transforming and translating of Christians both living and dead (physically) to meet Jesus Christ in the air, during His second coming to the earth and be with Him forever, which will occur at the time of the end.
Though the word rapture was not stated verbatim in the bible, but the bible points to rapture in several passages of the scripture. The word rapture is just used to describe the event that was going to take place at the second coming of Jesus back to the earth. The early Christians never had problems with the event that was going to take place; in fact everyone was very much acquainted with it and expected it.
Jesus Christ talked about it a lot and even went to describing it in details in the book Mathew 24 which we will be looking at in details in the course of this book.

In several scriptures of the bible, we are meant to understand that the earth condition will grow from bad to worse during the time of the end but those that endure to the end shall be saved and this gospel of the kingdom will preach to the ends of the world as a witness to all the nation and then the end will come.

When the apostle Paul said that Christians would be "caught up" to be with the Lord, what subject was being discussed? RESURRECTION!

1 Thess. 4:13-18, "We would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep ("those who sleep in death," NE; "those who have died," TEV, JB), that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

Evidently some members of the Christian church in Thessalonica had died. Paul encouraged the survivors to comfort one another with the resurrection hope. He reminded them that Jesus was resurrected after his death; so, too, at the coming of the Lord, those faithful Christians among them who had died would be raised to be with Christ.

Who are the ones that will be 'caught up in the clouds,' as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

Verse 15 explains that they are faithful ones "who are left until the coming of the Lord," that is, they are still living at the time of Christ's coming.

Will they ever die?

According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44, they must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ's return. They will instantly be "caught up," "in the twinkling of an eye," to be with The Lord.

RESURRECTION is what the apostle knew and preached. Rapture is alien.

emmyx2010: Am not comfortable when I see our men of God, gradually have replaced technology with our well respected HOLY BIBLE. do we call it signs of end time too. or what. Believe me the bible remains sacred to be held always.

God's words were originally on tablets.

"Then the Lord said to Moses, Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you [size=14pt]tablets[/size] of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them". Exodus 24:12 (NKJV)

Nevertheless, what counts most is having them written upon the tablet of our hearts.

"But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people". Jeremiah 31:33c (NKJV)

Joshthefirst: my thoughts on the big ban.g are irrelevant sir. The thread asked about your thoughts on how the big bang came about. Where did the energy come from.

It was as we were discussing the nature of knowledge and mans tackling of the universe's complexity that sin came up sir.

I was only giving my opinion of what mans problem really is.

Timely reiteration!

Materially/fleshly-minded dudes in 'spiritual cloaks'.

Dolly-Parton:
That doesn't mean they are competing.
They just happen to be sharing same building. Probably cos that's the available space they could find.
I just wonder how they don't distract/disturb each other.

They make the building looks like 'coat of many colors'.

lexyman: The mexicans got soaked with d pressure from the eaglet I forseen them playing in the finals again !

We will meet them again !

Let them survive Sweden first.

Gombs:
Proverbs 23:7 KJV - For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

Luke 6v45
King James Bible
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart
bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.



From the above you can see a man is as good as what he says or as bad as what he says...in other words a man is SAME as his words. You cannot separate a man from his Words, they are ALWAYS same.

You equate thoughts with spoken words. Jesus was neither God's spoken word nor the thought of His father's heart.

Jesus was called "the word" because he served as the Mouth, or Spokesman, for his Father, the great King of Eternity. He was God's Word of communication for conveying information and instructions from God to other spirit and human sons.

He was and is always available to act on his father's word. The title, "the word," best describes the above-stated role by Jesus.

As a spirit being, he (the word or God's spokesman) was made to become flesh.

Heheheheh...how can you then explain the creation of the Holy Spirit?
Hahahahahahaha
Was he created too? You didn't answer that!

No, the Holy Spirit was not created.

You called Him an 'IT' and as a 'Possession of God' and "God uses IT to accomplish His purposes" meaning He or rather IT is a kinda tool God uses

Absolutely!

How do you explain these?
1corinth 2v11

New International Version
For who knows a person's thoughts except their own
spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the
thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.


New Living Translation
No one can know a person's thoughts except that
person's own spirit, and no one can know God's
thoughts except God's own Spirit.

King James Bible
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the
spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God
knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

The expression: "the spirit of God" or "God's own spirit" shows that the spirit under consideration belongs to God. It is his possession or tool, as you earlier put.

A man and his spirit are same, aint they? Hence only His spirit knows what he is thinking? Pls explain the words in bold for me. For if the Holy Spirit is an IT and not same as God how then does he know the thoughts of God?

The Holy Spirit = God's spirit = God's own spirit = the spirit of God. Now tell me, who owns the spirit?

The Holy spirit is God's possession, while God is the possessor of the Holy Spirit.

Try the greek manuscript of verse 7

Ok

Wonderful question....was gonna ask you that. His name is same as God's they are same. He is that same Spirit that raised Jesus from the Dead, Romans 8v11

Scriptural reference @ bolded, please.

Wait first.... Who raised Jesus from the Dead?

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" Rom 8:11 KJV

God raised Jesus from the dead by his tool, his spirit. Like I said, he uses it to accomplish his purposes. The same spirit can empower you for great works. It does everything He wants it to.

Huh?
Don't fabricate stuffz na!

The Spirit, water and blood bear witness on EARTH (are in unison, their testimony coincides) the water and blood here are (Christ's Baptism and Death). Take out time and study

I wonder what you sought to prove with that quote. I responded that way to suit your trinity.

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahaahahhahaahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahahaahhaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahaha

So saints who dies 500years ago are in hell now waiting for the resurrection? Hahahahahahahahaha

Yes, they have to wait, for Hell or Sheol or Hades or Grave is the world of the dead. "...and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them.." Rev 20:13 KJV.

So saint go through torment in hell while they wait for resurrection?

Did Jesus go through torment in hell while he awaited the resurrection by his father?

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ , that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up , whereof we all are witnesses" Act 2:31-32 KJV

Do you guys believe the Lake of Fire exist?
Let's leave this topic alone abeg.

We believe what the bible says about the lake of fire.

"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death – the lake of fire." Rev. 20:14 NET

The lake of fire = the second death.

Virgin Finder: Come on. The trinity is scriptural and cannot be fully comprehended by we humans.

It's a matter of faith.

Come on, God is "four in one"! This is scriptural and cannot be fully comprehended by we humans.

It's a matter of faith....LOL.

.

Gombs: It pains me because you lot said, "the Word was a god." I asked a JW whether a man can be separated from his words? He said No..that a man and his words are same...then I asked him can you separate God from his words?...that God and his words should be same...he answered "Yes". But the bible you just read said "the word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us" (he was using my KJV...I insisted he use it)
Then I smiled and said how then did you guys conclude that "the Word was a god"?

I loved the confusion look on his face!

What has always been with you is your speech organ(s), not your spoken words.
Your words leave at the instant they are produced by the relevant organ(s). You can't fire a bullet and still have it in the gun, or shoot an arrow and still have it on the bowstring. "...So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:..." Isaiah 55:11 ASV.
You are not your word; your word is not you, either.

"The word", is a title. A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So, the question should be: why was Jesus called, "the word"?

If you can show me I Genesis 1 where Jesus was created...I'd believe you.God finished ALL his creation work on the 6th day right?

Your question is the same as saying: If you can show me in Genesis 1 where angels were created....I'd believe you they were created. God finished ALL his creation work on the 6th day right?

So, do you believe in the Holy Spirit? And that He is same as God? Or was he created too?

Yes, I believe in the Holy Spirit. It is not the same as God, but a possession of God. God uses it to accomplish his purposes.

1 John 5:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

"And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one". 1 John 5:7-8 (ASV)

The above says nothing about the trinity. Can you shed a little light on it?

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit ”

What is the name of the Holy Spirit?

Read verse 8


King James Bible
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

According to you, "the spirit" is man; "the water" is man; and "the blood" is also man. These three are one man.

Its ok if you still don't agree
Hell then is for who?
None JWs?

Hell is for all, we go there at death. From there too, people will be resurrected.

I know them ...toooooooo well

Ok sir

Gombs: It pains me because you lot said, "the Word was a god." I asked a JW whether a man can be separated from his words? He said No..that a man and his words are same...then I asked him can you separate God from his words?...that God and his words should be same...he answered "Yes". But the bible you just read said "the word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us" (he was using my KJV...I insisted he use it)
Then I smiled and said how then did you guys conclude that "the Word was a god"?

I loved the confusion look on his face!

What has always been with you is your speech organ(s), not your spoken words.
Your words leave at the instant they are produced by the relevant organ(s). You can't fire a bullet and still have it in the gun, or shoot an arrow and still have it on the bowstring. "...So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:..." Isaiah 55:11 ASV.
You are not your word; your word is not you, either.

"The word", is a title. A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So, the question should be: why was Jesus called, "the word"?

If you can show me I Genesis 1 where Jesus was created...I'd believe you.God finished ALL his creation work on the 6th day right?

Your question is the same as saying: If you can show me in Genesis 1 where angels were created....I'd believe you they were created. God finished ALL his creation work on the 6th day right?

So, do you believe in the Holy Spirit? And that He is same as God? Or was he created too?

Yes, I believe in the Holy Spirit. It is not the same as God, but a possession of God. God uses it to accomplish his purposes.

1 John 5:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

"And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one". 1 John 5:7-8 (ASV)

The above says nothing about the trinity. Can you shed a little light on it?

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit ”

What is the name of the Holy Spirit?

Read verse 8


King James Bible
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

According to you, "the spirit" is man; "the water" is man; and "the blood" is also man. These three are one man.

Its ok if you still don't agree
Hell then is for who?
None JWs?

Hell is for all, we go there at death. From there too, people will be resurrected.

I know them ...toooooooo well

Ok sir

Gombs: Oh! This one pains me a lot..the John 1v1

It pains you that they don't agree with you, or you just don't like John 1:1?

Others include
Jesus was created

Was he not?

They Holyspirit is irrelevant

The Holy Spirit they know is often written as two words. Besides, they never say it's irrelevant.

Nothing like trinity

Yes, there is nothing like trinity in the bible. You shouldn't be pained that they say so, especially, if you lack convincing scriptural substance to buttress your claim.

They don't believe in hell

I don't think so. They believe in hell, though not as a place of fiery and eternal torment for the wicked.

They are the only ones using NWT in the whole world
I can go on and on

I don't hate you folks, infact I love engaging you lot in bible study, but you folks won't use any other bible except NWT, which continues to be revised and esp scriptures pointing Jesus to be the son of God removed.

This comment makes me doubt you really known them.

chocopearl: Adaeze Stephanie Uju Uchendu- A.S.U.U

Stephen Tim Raphael Iniobong Kenneth Etim = STRIKE

TroGunn: The simple explanation is that there are two possible ways of translating that part of John 1:1.

One way is to render it as "the word was God" - most popular, being as most people, including translators believe the Trinity, or are influenced by the popular Trinity teaching.

Another way to translate it is "the word was godlike/divine/a god" - not so popular but some "scholars believe it is possible or even preferable" way to translate that verse.

More information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1 .

Whichever option you lean towards, clearly Jesus is subordinate to and different from the Almighty God (the Father - Jehovah/Yahweh), as other Bible verses clearly show, two examples below:

John 14:28 - " “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

1 Cor 15: 25-28: " For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. "


And there are many scholars/translations, whose rendering of John 1:1 is similar to that of the JW's NWT, according to this link http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120226195730AA757Az :

[b]
C. H. Dodd - "The Word was a god" - Technical Papers for the Bible Translator, Jan., 1977.

Murray J. Harris - "the Word was a god" - p. 60, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

Robert Young - "and a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word" - Young's Concise Critical Bible Commentary.

"And the Word was divine." - An American Translation, 19th impr., 1975.

“and the word was a god” (Newcome, 1808)

“the Word was God’s” (Crellius,as quoted in The New Testament in an Improved Version)

“and the Word was a divine being.” (La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel,1928)

“the Logos was a god (John Samuel Thompson, The Montessoran; or The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, Baltimore; published by the translator, 1829)

“the Word was divine” (Goodspeed’s An American Translation, 1939)

“the word was a god.” (Revised Version-Improved and Corrected)

“and god[-ly/-like] was the Word.” (Prof. Felix Just, S.J. - Loyola Marymount University)

“the Logos was divine” (Moffatt’s The Bible, 1972)

“the Word was God*[ftn. or Deity, Divine, which is a better translation, because the Greek definite article is not present before this Greek word] (International English Bible-Extreme New Testament, 2001)

“and the Word was a god” (Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D. -The New Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from the Greek, 1694)

“[A]s a god the Command was” (Hermann Heinfetter, A Literal Translation of the New Testament,1863)

“The Word was a God” (Abner Kneeland-The New Testament in Greek and English, 1822)

“[A]nd a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word” (Robert Young, LL.D. (Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 54). 1885)

“the Word was a god” (Belsham N.T. 1809)

“And the logos was a god” (Leicester Ambrose, The Final Theology, Volume 1, New York, New York; M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879)

“the Word was Deistic [=The Word was Godly] (Charles A.L. Totten, The Gospel of History, 1900)

”[A]nd was a god” (J.N. Jannaris, Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, (German periodical) 1901, International Bible Translators N.T. 1981)

“[A] Divine Person.” (Samuel Clarke, M.A., D.D., rector of St. James, Westminster, A Paraphrase on the Gospel of John, London)

“a God” (Lant Carpenter, LL.D (in Unitarianism in the Gospels [London: C. Stower, 1809], 156).)

“a God” (Paul Wernle,(in The Beginnings of Christianity, vol. 1, The Rise of Religion [1903], 16).)

“and the [Marshal] [Word] was a god.” (21st Century Literal)

[A]nd (a) God was the word” (George William Horner, The Coptic Version of the New Testament, 1911)

“[A]nd the Word was of divine nature” (Ernest Findlay Scott, The Literature of the New Testament, New York, Columbia University Press, 1932)

[T]he Word was a God” (James L. Tomanec, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958)

“The Word had the same nature as God” (Philip Harner, JBL, Vol. 92, 1974)

“And a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word” (Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1975)

“and godlike sort was the Logos” (Johannes Schneider, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1978)

“the Word was a divine Being” (Scholar’s Version-The Five Gospels, 1993)

“The Divine word and wisdom was there with God, and it was what God was” (J. Madsen, New Testament A Rendering , 1994)

“a God/god was the Logos/logos” (Jurgen Becker, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1979)

“The Word/word was itself a divine Being/being.” (Curt Stage, The New Testament, 1907)

“the Word was of divine kind” (Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945)

“was of divine Kind/kind” (Fredrich Pfaefflin, The New Testament, 1949)

“godlike Being/being had the Word/word” (Albrecht, 1957)

“the word of the world was a divine being” (Smit, 1960)

“God(=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word” (Menge, 1961)

“divine (of the category divinity)was the Logos” (Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1984)

“And the Word was divine.” (William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. John’s Gospel, London, Macmillan & Co.,1933)

“the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god” (Greek Orthodox /Arabic Calendar, incorporating portions of the 4 Gospels, Greek Orthodox Patriarchy or Beirut, May, 1983)

“And the Word was Divine” (Ervin Edward Stringfellow (Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University, 1943)

“and the Logos was divine (a divine being)” (Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, in The Historic Jesus in the New Testament [/b]

Nice one!