₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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I don hear.

I am waiting for the evils you said Yahweh did. Even if you cannot quote the Scriptures, just name the stories.

I have read the Bible from Genesis to revelation several times without number and can easily tell you the details of the stories you mention as well as the background and context of those stories.

From experience, when men do evil, you guys don't see it. It is only God's judgement upon the evil people that you see. You then conclude that God is evil without minding that He was judging people who were doing evil after waiting hundreds of years for them to repent.

But since you have admitted that justice rightfully executed is not evil, I will like you to prove your statements that Yahweh did evil.

Dtruthspeaker:
Perfect!!!

And then he couldn't counter

You mean Deepsight?

He was in denial, claiming contradictions that didn't exist. All my explanations in a bid to simplify things for him fell on deaf ears.

Dtruthspeaker:
Rather, it is Him doing good of giving

Exactly.

LordReed:
You didn't answer the question and even when you said no it completely contradicts what you are saying so abeg it have do, I don belleful. LoLz.

Everything looks contradictory until you understand some fundamentals.

You know,when you tell a P3 pupil that 3-4. = -1, he'll say it's contradictory because he was taught that the answet is 'impossible'.

DeepSight:
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These contradictions are just too horrible. Let me not bother.

You'll understand it the moment you know what trigger or enlightenment is. When your eyes suddenly open and you come to the realization of something that's always there but now been seen differently. That's the type of knowledge we're talking about here as regards doing evil.

I don't think you'll ever understand.

And you should understand that the person who entices you to do Yahoo is also going to be your teacher.

DeepSight:
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Pls forget this matter. It is absurd to say that one creating evil is doing no evil.

The absurdity is in saying that one creates evil also does evil. That means there's no purpose for anything. God just just creates things to do them.

God created food. Does The eat food? No.

Aside from this, scripture is full of the many abominable and despicable acts of Yahweh.

All lies. Bring me the so called scriptures.

Nah. Not with the kind of reasoning you're offering here, I would not want to waste my time.

Probably because you know too little about what I am reasoning about.

[quote author=tctrills post=138109206]Now this is crazy, you are saying that one can have the knowledge to do good and evil without knowing what is good or evil. Haba, how is that possible?
My 10-month-old baby doesn't know good or evil, but somehow, you think she should be able to choose between doing good and evil? How nah?

You really need to explain this, clearly and carefully.[/quote
No. Not like that.

I know that evil exists but I may not know how to do evil. For instance, you know that Yahoo crime exists but you may not know how to do Yahoo. And of course, you may decide never to do it. You could eventually do it if you were enticed by someone.

Please juxtapose this explanation with the Adam and Eve episode and see that they are the forbidden fruit only when they were enticed. The knew evil exists. Even the name of the fruit itself shows they knew it exists.

DeepSight:
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I don't have the strength to go round in absurd circles. That's why I say never mind.

There is no difference between creating evil and doing evil. Evil is not food which one can make and not eat. It exists in its very nature. Anyone creating evil is doing evil. This is not something I can start going around in circles about.

Didn't I say that you don't understand many things?

Evil is a spiritually tangible force that can be unleashed. Same as Good . That's why we say "Hey, he has a good spirit." That means the person does good good. Good exists but not everyone does it. Evil exists but not everyone does it. Both exist because they were created not because they were done. If God does evil without creating evil. He'll be the only one doing evil because He didn't create it. It won't exist. If He does good without creating good, the same logic applies.

I can create a movie without being an actor in that movie.

You are right about my perception of God. Because I am agnostic mostly, so I pretty much have very little to say on that. I just have the notion logically and intuitively that there is an ultimate cause or source. Beyond that, I really don't know anymore claim to know much.

I have created a thread that should help your research in that direction if you're sincere.

DeepSight:
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Never mind.

I don't need to mind. All I know is that the creator or soccer needn't be a footballer. He doesn't even need to have two legs. Creation is different from Action.

And I know that your god has no Creator ID. Otherwise, you would have dangled it in my face as I dangled Yahweh's.

DeepSight:
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God creates evil buth does not do evil.
Gotcha.

LordReed - "Word evil does not mean evil."

Yes. I can create amala without eating amala. Gotcha!


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I believe God exists.
Yahweh, in my view, is not God.

Where's the ID or your god as the Creator of the world?

DeepSight:
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What's the point. I gave you one in which he says so himself but all you have done is dance around claiming that he really is referring to non evil things like justified judgement.

Why should I bother. If I were to start listing all of the abominations he has done in scripture, I will obviously be wasting my energy since you can contradict him directly.


Seriously, never mind. It doesn't matter.
Since he doesn't exist.

So, creating is the same as doing?

If Good and Evil are not created, how can anyone do them? God created them. They exist. That does not mean God does them.

And you read about all the extra biblical historical evidence in that same Isaiah 45 and all about the Book of Daniel only to conclude that God doesn't exist? I laugh in Swahili.

I told you, you don't understand many things.

DeepSight:
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This is what I cant stand. You pick a thing that is not evil and use it as an example of the evil that Yahweh says he does. Enough. Don't bother.

Give me a scripture that says Yahweh DOES evil.

DeepSight:
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Justified judgement is not evil so you can't use that as an example.

But justified judgement is what Yahweh does.

DeepSight:
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Seems you know better than him, since you are contradicting him. Its alright, never mind.

There's no contradiction. It's all based on the fact that you've misunderstood a lot of things.

Yahweh does only good and not evil. When He judges someone for wickedness and brings evil upon him, that does not translate to him doing evil. If you see that as evil, you're having a lopsided judgement of that action. Let me give you an example.

A man has stolen your goat. He was caught, prosecuted and sentenced to prison. To the man and his loved ones, evil has befallen him. But to you who got justice, good has befallen you. This makes the matter of good and evil somehow subjective. But a wholistic look at the whole thing makes you know that justice is good but it's a bitter experience for the condemned.

These are in levels. There are crimes a person may commit against you that would lead to a death sentence. Evil has befallen the criminal, isn't it? But you who received justice would be glad that such good things have befallen you.

DeepSight:
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Why then was Yahweh afraid that the man had become "like one of us, knowing good and evil.?

Does this not show, if we follow your distinction that Yahweh and his "us" were also capable of doing evil.

Yes. Yahweh is capable of doing anything but He doesn't do evil.

tctrills:
You don't understand my question?
I asked,
Since you believe that man needs the ability to choose, in fact, you call the ability to choose what makes life meaningful and worth living. You must agree that the ability to choose good over evil comes from the knowledge of good and evil. So what was wrong with eating the fruit that gave us the knowledge of good and evil?

Now, I understand you.

The knowledge that good and evil exists is different from the knowledge to be able to do good or evil. The former was what man had before eating the fruit. The latter is what they had after eating tje fruit. That's why the first murder was recorded only after that.

The knowledge of what could be done is separate from the knowledge of how to do it.

LordReed:
You didn't need to say it in the first place because this is not the answer to the question I asked. You are dodging answering the question because you know it will skewer you but that's ok, I think I am satisfied at this point. LoLz.

But I answered your question with explanations which you said you didn't ask for. I did that several times and still added a No at one point.

tctrills:
My question is, without that decision, Man would not have known good nor evil, so the ability to choose good over evil would have been impossible.
Since you believe that man needs the ability to choose, infact you called the ability to choose what makes life meaningful and worth living, then you must agree that the ability to choose good over evil comes from the knowledge of good and evil. Without eating the fruit, man would not have that knowledge and ability.

What then are you inferring?

tctrills:
How can man choose without knowing Good or evil? Such a choice will be meaningless dont you think?

The knowledge itself is not a sin. It is the choice that leads to wrong actions that's a sin. And then sin begets evil.

tctrills:
But then there must be evil and the knowledge of good and evil if we must have the ability to choose. So the event that gave man the knowledge and ability to choose, was it a bad thing?

Man has the innate ability to choose. No event gave man that ability.

Expanse2020:
Not all those jargon you put there from the book that lack integrity 🤣🤣🤣🤣
How can you see truth and still be blind.. those that brought this paper to you they know that the integrity is questionable and it lack integrity too.. the original manuscript can't be found for proofs and what others evidence did you need to know that the book was just coin to enslave African like you

I know you're spewing the lies that your imams tell you regularly. The Bible has no integrity? Please prove it. There's no scientist, archeologist or historian that faults the Bible on any index.

Can you read? Read from the screenshots I attached below before mentioning me.

LordReed:
Which I did but you can't.

No, you used the wrong scripture. The scripture you quoted didn't place God anywhere.

I am not here to argue God's meeting place with you. I am just telling you that you wrongly quoted a scripture that didn't relate.

I didn't ask you to explain anything I asked you to say yes or no to a simple question you said you said no which will translate to to "no, evil is necessary to enjoy evil in heaven". If evil is not necessary to enjoy good in heaven then you are just dribbling your own shadow and hiding behind your finger.

Intelligent human beings don't need to see N and O before they see a No. If you ask to see yes or no, the person's explained position should tell you where they stand. It's when you want to shut people up in order to gain ascendancy over them that you tell them to answer a question in one syllable. Meanwhile, the question itself was asked in many words. Every Yes or No has an explanation behind it.

The conditions in heaven are not the same as earth. Heaven and hearth don't have the same outcomes for every action. In fact, if you throw something up here, it must come down. That's not the same outcome you'll get if you did the same thing in the moon. It is wrong for you to apply earth to heaven because they're on different frequencies. How many times do I have to say this?

DeepSight:
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I quoted more than those two verses and they also included descriptive verses with the throne of God and heavenly hosts.
I drop the topic. This is too escapist and unconvincing.

I am not arguing about the location of God's council.

You feel it's excspisy because you still don't understand my angle of argument.

I am not even saying God's council is not in heaven. I am saying the dude's reference scripture was wrong. That's my point.

God can meet anywhere, but that's not what I'm arguing about.

DeepSight:
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On the cross, he is said to be bearing the sin of man, hence the argument that God (himself) forsook him at that moment, leading to the cry "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."

Does that mean He transmitted the sins to heaven? He went to hell afterwards, dropped all the suns there, and returned to earth bound for heaven.

FreeStuffsNG:
Smh.

You're completely ignorant if you don't comprehend why Trump, as bully as he acts, is hesitant.

Attack or kill or Maduro Iranian leaders,unlike Venezuela, there will be immediate and vicious consequences and unlike in the past, US allies, actually privately wants such humiliation for Trump and US.

I am sure that you are not even aware that Elon Musk's spacelink, which US uses to track people and even customers of spacelink down to murder them, has been completely blocked in Iran for more than 48 hours. Trump is now saying he wants to talk to Elon Musk.

How did the Iranians achieve what even Russia couldn't achieve against Spacelink humbled even Trump. How many more surprises from Iran await them?

Unlike Venezuela, Iran is monitoring the US build up of military assets in Jordan, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, sharing the information with the public through the media giving real-time update on stages of US military build up which is now ready for Trump to approve for Iran attack while Iran already responded by setting its assets for total war against US assets , interests and its proxy in occupied Palestine so US has lost the element of surprise while the US is technically blind to what's going on inside Iran. Cyberspace blockage adopted by Iran is unprecedented even to western experts!

It's only a fool who will take such a people for granted. Hit Iran and there will be abundant consequences that even the US military has disclosed to Trump.

There's now countdown to US midterm elections and Trump's party will lose the control of US congress and Trump will be impeached as he predicted and will likely resume his criminal cases. He has so much to lose right from the moment he attacks Iran.

As I type here, there's massive nationwide protests going on simultaneously in US and its proxy, Isreal, occupying Palestine yet their controlled media wants to make it about the protest they sponsored in Iran till the Iranians blocked them out.

Guy, you're so fooled by your religion that you don't ever think straight.

What offence has Iran committed against America directly that should make America go pick him up like they did Maduro? Maduro had crimes he committed against America which made them justify their actions against him. What justification would America have to go pick Ayatollah? Or, you expect them to go in just because they support the Iranian masses? So, in your thinking now, America has not picked up the mumu leader because they're afraid?😟

Expanse2020:
I read your jargon and I see your God is limited to certain and prone to error

That's just in your head. You probably didn't read the historical evidences that confirm what was written. You saw evidence and still have the guts to call evidence jargons? The evidences were not even supplied by me.

DeepSight:
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What does this even mean? Are you saying he was no longer God when on the cross?

He was God in heaven and Man on earth at the same time. What exactly do you need clarification on? Or, are you thinking that His human nature was transmitting evil into heaven? Even as man on earth, Jesus was known to be absolutely sinless.

DeepSight:
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The question that is key is the presence of the Lord because you should wonder if evil can be in the presence of the Lord - especially since you yourself said the Lord cannot stand sin. You yourself said it "irritates" him. So stop contradicting yourself.

Now, Job 1:6 - here is the expanded context - (note the bold portions).

6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Now look at 2 Ch 18 and tell me with a straight face that this does not disclose the location -

“Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the heavenly host standing on his right and on his left. 19 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
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Can you look at the bold and tell me that does not refer to heaven? With the reference to the throne and the heavenly host before the Lord? If you claim that it does not, frankly I will see no reason to believe that you are being serious going forward.

It is also impossible to read Daniel 7 (even though its a vision being described, and fail to see that it refers to heaven.

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Here is Isaiah Chapter 6:1.

1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.

If you insist that this does not speak about heaven, I have no choice but to leave you alone as I will be forced to conclude that you are deliberately making a joke of the discussion.

You're bit getting me at all.

I'm not arguing about where the council holds. I'm arguing that the scripture presented by lordreed is not adequate enough for what he claims. Please get me right. I am telling him that he's wrongly inferring what the verse didn't infer. I am not discussing about the council's meeting place at all.

As for the scripture in Job, I have told lordreed that even if heaven is inferred as the location of the council, that verse didn't say Satan was dwelling in heaven. This applies to your Ahab scripture above too. Like I said to him, you cannot say there's a cat in my house just because Mr. Donald visits me with his cat. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because Satan goes there for a meeting. However, there's nothing in that job scripture that states Satan was meeting with God in heaven.

God is not confined to a place. Purge yourself of whatever religion has told you, and learn God for yourself. God is not a Being confined to a place. God having a meeting does not necessarily mean that the meeting is holding in heaven. God is omnipresent.

That's why I gave him thT scripture which he ignored. Perhaps, you can help him. Can you tell me what you understand about John 1:51:


He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man."

Expanse2020:
Your God declare future or the past..
Your bible God is limited geography, physics astronomy even in history he failed according to bible oo

Are you finding it difficult to read, or you just want to be a blind follower of Allah?

LordReed:
Very simple show me a scripture that says your god holds his council anywhere other than heaven.

You're the one inferring that God holds council somewhere. You're the one to show us where He does that.

Please quote your previous answer and bolden where you wrote no.

So your answer is no evil is necessary to enjoy good in heaven? LoLz. Na wa for [<mental atilogun dancing.

I have said it several times with an explanation that the condition on earth is not the same as heaven. Hence the same rules don't apply! I don't like repeating myself thousands of times on simple things like this. I even gave you a contrast between Nigeria and the USA twice.

DeepSight:
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Doesn't matter so long as you say he is God as well.

It doesn't because both states don't interfere.

DeepSight:
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I dont think even you believe in this excuse.
Perhaps the Divine Council of gods meets in Hell or on Earth?

What I'm telling you is that the scripture he quoted are not literally establishing his points. He shot get the right scriptures. He can't tell me that scripture says God meets in a place when that scripture didn't say so. Wherever God holds His council is not mentioned in that scripture he quoted, and he should admit that.

The words in each verse I cited are more than just suggestive as to the "where."

Be serious please. Dont make one begin to think you are willing to make excuses that no one could take seriously.

They're not even suggestive. The gods are not in heaven.