₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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Pls just tell us where such meetings are likely to hold if not in heaven, thanks.

I want lirdreed to explain this scripture first. God is not bound to a place like we humans.

Let my friend, lordreed admit he inserted a place into that scripture which the scriptures itself does not insert.
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How then could Jesus bear the sin of the world on the cross if he is also God?

He is not just God. He is also man.

LordReed:
Unlike you I don't need to make any interpretations of the text to suit my narrative, a plain text contextual reading is enough. People like you would claim the words it says don't mean what they say.

Look at it, you can't even provide a scripture that backs up your claim that your god's council is held elsewhere than heaven. You can't even be honest with your own holy book.

You're just ranting whatever comes to your mind. I didn't make any claim that God had His council anywhere. I'm claiming that you misquoted that scripture. Not interpretation. You're saying what the scriptures didn't say. Point to me in all honesty where that scripture says God's council is in heaven. Just point it out to me straight, because I can see you want to throw accusations where there are none.

Of course you can't remember. LoLz.

Answer my question with a simple yes or no.

All I can remember is that you want a Yes or No without any explanation. I provided you a No here with explanation as I always do, but you'll come again and again claiming tje question was not answered. I don't actually know your definition of the word 'answer. You probably have a different meaning for that in your dictionary.

Expanse2020:
You Jesus have ID show us
You holy spirit ID show us
The heavenly father ID show us..
Let see them...


Note the johava of the bible claimed to be deceiver inside the bible.....lord of deceiver

Go and read the beginning of the thread. The Creator already presented His ID, and it's not Allah. Allah is an impostor.

LordReed:
Where else would heavenly beings hold their council? Can YOU give us any scripture that says they hold council elsewhere?

I'm trying to let you see that you don't understand the Bible at all. Yet, you've made a lot of wrong conclusions about the Bible's God based on inadequate knowledge. See how you're reading the Bible. Very flawed. Let me give you a scripture and let me see whT you'll learn from it:

John 1:51: "And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Dude this is the thing with you, we have had this kind of discussion where you refuse to give a simple yes or no even though you demand same. Please answer the question with a simple yes or no.

I can't remember anything of such. What I'm tell you is that evil does not dwell in heaven because sin is not tolerated there at all. It is immediately quarantined. God is irritated by sin. It can't stay where God stays.

DeepSight:
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Job 1.6
2 Ch 18:19-22

Psalm 82:1 - "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment."

Daniel 7: 9-10

Isaiah 6 :1-8

Yeah, God has a divine council, but these Scriptures did not mention the place. Even 'the midst of the gods' is not a place.

LordReed:
Psalm 89
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
7 a God feared in the council of the holy ones,
great and awesome[b] above all who are around him?

This scripture does not say that the council holds in heaven. It talks about the heavenly beings. Not the heavenly place. Then, it talks about the council of the holy ones without mentioning the place of the council.

Then, your Job allusion does not actually fit because even if satan appears in heaven for a meeting, that does not mean he dwells there. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because satan visits. You cannot say I have a cat in my house just because Mr, Donald visits me with his cat.

Very simply do you agree that evil is not necessary to enjoy good in heaven? Yes or no.

Now, I understand you. This is not what I agreed. This is what I inferred. I told you that the conditions in heaven are different to that of earth. That means, heaven does not necessarily have to be enjoyed by the same principle that applies to the earth.

tctrills:
Sir you said
This is why evil exists. There's evil because we're not zombies. We can choose an action and the opposite of the action as we please. And that's what makes life meaningful and worth living.

From this, we see that you allude that the existence of evil makes life meaningful and worth living.

Now evil came into the world when Adam and Eve ate the fruit, hence my question

Oh, I now understand you. The existence of evil is not what makes life meaningful and worth living. Instead, the ability to make a choice, whether to do evil or to do good is what makes life worth living and meaningful.

Dtruthspeaker:
It is not a test. A test is always deliberately given and the tester is in interested in the outcome of tester.

But here, we can all see that God was not interested in their outcome.

You're right.

Since He already knew the outcome and had even prepared ahead for it.

elated177:
FxMasterz, when I proclaim the greatness, might, power, magnificence and awesomeness the one and only true God and the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, I do so by virtue of what I have felt, seen, tasted, tested and confirmed to be true.

I don't mince words in declaring that the God of the Scriptures - the Torah, the Prophets and the others, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, who delivered his people from slavery in the land of Ham, is the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, the Father of the spirits of flesh. I do so unapologetically.

He made and created all the natural phenomena - the sun, the moon, the stars, all the heavenly array, the wind, the thunder and the lightning, the rain, etc, and the laws that govern them and he rules over them and controls them as he pleases. They respond also respond to his chosen human vessels here on earth. Yes, such people still exist today.

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret,
    from somewhere in a land of darkness;
I have not said to Jacob’s descendants,
    ‘Seek me in vain.’
I, YHVH, speak the truth;
    I declare what is right.

Very apt!

Expanse2020:
Ask your creator

He should present his ID. The Creator has an ID. If Allah cannot present his, he's a deceiver, and infact, as he rightly confessed, the very best of deceivers.

tctrills:
But without eating the fruit sin wouldn't have entered the world and raw loyalty could not be tested further

You're mixing things up. Please read what you said again.

Loyalty is tested on whether they'll eat the fruit or not.

LordReed:
Where else does the Bible claim that the god holds his councils?

Can you answer that question yourself and show us where the Bible claims God holds His council?

Please answer my question. Do you or do you not concede that the heaven you believe in depicts the possibility?

I've answered you so much so that I'm beginning to think I probably didn't get your question well. You might please come again.

tctrills:
Not a bad write-up, but you wrote the below.

This is why evil exists. There's evil because we're not zombies. We can choose an action and the opposite of the action as we please. And that's what makes life meaningful and worth living.

From what you wrote, it seems there is a righteous purpose to evil. We need to be exposed to evil so we can make righteous choices.

So are you also suggesting that eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and was a good thing? Without it, we wouldn't have been exposed to the forces and temptations of evil in their fullness

No. The fruit was forbidden. That means God wanted to see raw loyalty and love. But the people failed to give it to Him.

Dtruthspeaker:
You are only half right!

You forget even you too can foreknow things if you want to but, you do not always use your power of foreknowing.

Same thing for God too. He too switches off His foreknowing power to let events stimulate His emotions (Spirit) and dictate His response. Which is what you see when He asked "didst thou eat the fruit which I Commanded you not to eat?"
That clearly shows that He did not know.

You mean God did not also know where Adam was before He asked "Where art thou?" God is not omniscient according to your logic.

Expanse2020:
Ask your creator

Allah has no ID?

elated177:
Fxmasterz, has he shown himself to you as the one and only true God?

Evidently!

Expanse2020:
The only True God
Allah
He created everything
He send the messengers, the Warner's, judges, helpers to find him to worship him only..

For those who follows the right paths they dwell in paradise and those who fail to accept the teachings, messages, and embark on wrong paths they ended in hell...

Where's Allah's ID card?

Understanding the Bible's Core Message from Genesis to Revelation

The Bible has an answer for all the questions we ask about life and about the world. I will like to make the Bible plain to you in a simple summary.

The Beginning of Evil

{b}God is a God of Relationship{/b}. He likes relating with His creations. In fact, He created man for two reasons: 1. Punishment for Satan. 2. Relationship.

God created man majorly because He wanted to relate with Him. That man cannot be a zombie or a robot. There's no true relationship with a robot. Hence man must be able to choose his actions and be responsible for them. This is where love and loyalty will be defined. What is a relationship without love and loyalty?

For love to exist, there must be a choice to hate. And for loyalty to exist, there must be a choice to rebel. You cannot know if someone loves you if that person has no alternative. You cannot know if someone is disloyal to you if that person never sees an opportunity to rebel.

The ability to hate and a decision to love is what makes relationship a sweet thing. The whole world is founded on this principle down to the last family that just formed.

This is why evil exists. There's evil because we're not zombies. We can choose an action and the opposite of the action as we please. And that's what makes life meaningful and worth living.

The First Evil
God didn't create evil directly. Evil is a by-product of sin. To release evil, someone somewhere must sin. Someone somewhere must choose an action that gratifies himself/herself. He must choose to hate instead of loving. Rebel instead of being loyal.

The First Sinner
Satan was the first to choose an action that gratifies self. An action that destabilized the relationship between him and God. He rebelled.

This is what makes Satan the source of all manifest evil. He was in the world before man. And as I earlier said, man was created as an instrument of judgement for Satan. This is the reason why Satan hates man with fervent hatred. (Please read Genesis 1:26 to understand that Satan is symbolically called the serpent - creeping thing). God deliberately gave man (dust) dominion over Satan (the creeping thing) in order to humiliate him for his rebellion.

How it all Started
Satan was in heaven with God. Called Lucifer, he was a specially created being, and one of the highest ranking archangels in heaven. He was so delicately created - a masterpiece of God's creative expertise. His frame made him proud and arrogant. He began to nurse the thoughts of becoming a king. He then schemed against God and was cast down here to the earth from heaven. Then the "...the earth became without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep." (Genesis 1). God then decided to restore the earth. He then created virtually all things including animals in preparation for the man He wanted to create. This man will be a punishment for Satan, and also be a being God would relate with, coming down to interact with him at the cool of every day.

In short, God's purpose for restoring the earth after it was disfigured was to create man from dust, and make that dust rule Satan in eternal humiliation, with God relating with that man like a friend. So, God created man and made him the Sovereign on the same earth where Satan dwelt. Satan couldn't stand the humiliation, so he schemed to snatch the Sovereignty away from man. He tempted Eve to choose an opposite action.. He attempted to make her disloyal. Satan succeeds. Man lost his dignity. The Glory of God that covered him disappeared, and he became naked. Satan quickly sized the opportunity of man's weakened state and became the god of this world.

God didn't interfere because man as sovereign had the final say on whatever he does in the world. The earth was man's absolute control (Psalm 115:16). If man has decided to exchange positions with Satan, then, so be it.

Did God know that man would fail? Yes, God knew but He still created man anyway because Satan must be punished, and God must have a friend. However, God devised a solution to man's failure ever before man was created - "The lamb slain from the foundation of the world (ever before man or anything was created in the world) for the restoration of man." Revelation 13:8.

As a result of man's fall, Satan reigned from a position of authority over the world, and began to multiply evils through sins as he pleased.

In short, God knew evil will come because man would fail, but nonetheless, God's purpose for man as His medium of punishment for Satan must be fulfilled. The gains, including God's potential for having a friend far outweighs the losses. However as I said earlier, God also had a rescue plan for man to restore him to his initial position of Sovereignty after giving Satan enough time to repent.

Why will God Punish Man for Sins He Knew He'll Commit Even Before Creating Him?

God is not punishing man for any evil. This is a misunderstanding brought by religion. Instead, God is punishing Satan for his evils. Man would be exonerated if he comes into God's provision for his exoneration and restoration. Hell was NEVER created for man. It was created for the devil and fallen angels who have vowed never to reconcile with God (Matthew 25:41).

However, God wants to cleanse the earth and restore it. He'll remove Satan and stop all evils. The earth would then continue eternally as was originally planned - evil free. But, man needs to be cleansed so that the evils of that old world would not be carried over into the reordered world by human carriers.

So, cleansed humans who are of no threat to the new world would pass over into the new and refurbished world where Satan is completely absent. God has devised a new form of punishment for him - everlasting fire (Mathew 25:41). In the absence of Satan and human carriers of evil, Good and righteousness continue forever in the new world. No one to deceive anybody to choose wrong actions. Man continues to reign with the guidance of Jesus, the man-God who abolishes evil by guiding man to choose righteousness forever.

God is not punishing man for any evil in the world, otherwise, God wouldn't make provision for his exoneration. God loves man so much, He doesn't want him punished. That's why He put Himself in the position of the man to redeem his sovereignty which Satan stole by subtlety. Since only man must redeem man, no one can do it for him. But man was weak. He couldn't help himself. He was doomed forever to be oppressed by Satan in his own world. God couldn't bear to see man in that condition for all eternity. He had to clothe Himself as man, and come to the world to do for man what man could not do for himself. Jesus came and redeemed man's sovereignty. After accomplishing that task, He left the world to give opportunity for men to cleanse themselves from evil in order to be able to inhabit the world once refurbished.

Because, as for that new world "Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.." (Revelation 21:27). Those who purge themselves of evil by taking advantage of God's provision for their purging immediately have their names written in the Book of Life as citizens of the refurbished world that is coming.

Men who reject the cleansing are considered a threat to the new world God is establishing, and must therefore be ridded out by quarantining them in the same place where all evils are quarantined. The innate evil in a man must be purged out so he would not carry evil into that 'eviless' world.

If you understand this plan of God, you'll begin to see the reason why many religions missed it, and why there's so much evil in the world. Satan hates man so much because man was actually created for his humiliation. You'll also understand why Satan has to deny that Jesus died. Jesus's death is for man's cleansing which is a huge threat to Satan. It was the very price Jesus paid to redeem man's sovereignty from Satan. Satan has to deny it because that's the only way he can stop men from being cleansed or liberated from his grip..

God intentionally created the world. The world would continue as planned but Satan must be out and all evils. Men must be cleansed. Then, righteousness reigns forever and ever. Is your name written in the Book of Life? [b]Come to Jesus today for your cleansing.[/b

Deepsight

Google's AI Mode also contributed:

In 2026, the question of whether the events of Isaiah 45 actually happened is no longer just a matter of faith; it is a matter of cold, hard archaeology and historical record.

The story is one of the most stunning "IDs" ever presented by any deity in human history. To distinguish Himself from the "noise" of countless other gods, the God of Israel issued a specific challenge: Predict the future.

The Impossible Identity
Around 700 BC, at a time when Jerusalem was still at peace and the Persian Empire didn't even exist, the prophet Isaiah recorded a message from a God who claimed to be an "introvert"—one who hides Himself (Isaiah 45:15), only to be found by those who seek Him.

In this "hidden" state, God spoke to a man named Cyrus, a king whose very grandparents had not yet been born. He called him by name and gave him a dual assignment: Conquer Babylon. Rebuild Jerusalem  and its temple, and free the captives. At the time of this writing, there were no captives, no destroyed temple, and no king named Cyrus.

Verifiable Fulfillment
History records that approximately 150 years later, every detail of this prophecy manifested with startling precision.

The Conquest of Babylon (539 BC): Isaiah 45:1 predicted that God would "open doors before him so that gates will not be shut". Historical accounts from Herodotus and the NabonidusbChronicle  confirm that Cyrus took the "impregnable" city of Babylon in a single night by diverting the Euphrates river, allowing his troops to wade into the city through river gates that had been left unlocked during a festival.

The Cyrus Cylinder: 
Discovered in 1879 and currently housed in the British Museum, this clay artifact provides extra-biblical proof. It records Cyrus’s official policy of returning displaced peoples to their homelands and rebuilding their sanctuaries—an unprecedented move in an era defined by brutal deportation.

The Personal Encounter: 
The historian Josephus  (Antiquities XI.1.2) records a tradition that upon entering Babylon, the Jewish elders showed Cyrus the scroll of Isaiah. Stunned to see his own name and his mission written 150 years before his birth, Cyrus was moved to fulfill the decree exactly as Isaiah had recorded.

The Verdict of History
For the modern observer, this isn't just "religion"—it is documented history.

Manuscript Integrity: The Dead Sea Scrolls  (specifically the Great Isaiah Scroll, dated to the 2nd century BC) prove that these prophecies existed in their current form long before the era of Christian editing.

A Recurring Pattern:  This same divine "signature" appears in the Book of Daniel, which detailed four successive world empires (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome) with such accuracy that historians once claimed it must have been written after the fact—until archaeological evidence proved otherwise.

The verdict is clear: The God of Isaiah 45 did exactly what He said He would do, using the life of an unborn king to prove that He alone controls the timeline of human history.

Grok

In the ancient world, people worshipped countless gods—deities of stone, sky, and storm, each promising power but delivering confusion. Amid this polytheistic chaos, the Hebrew prophet Isaiah presented a bold claim around the 8th century BCE: the God of Israel stands alone as the true Creator, distinguished by His unique ability to declare events long before they unfold.

In Isaiah 44:28 and 45:1, God names a future king, Cyrus, as His instrument: "who says of Cyrus, 'He is my shepherd, and he shall fulfill all my purpose'; saying of Jerusalem, 'She shall be built,' and of the temple, 'Your foundation shall be laid.' Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him..."

God addresses Cyrus directly, promising to empower him to conquer nations, break gates, and level obstacles—all so Cyrus would rebuild Jerusalem and its temple, freeing captives to return home. At the time of writing, Jerusalem stood intact under Judah's kings, with no exile yet. No one named Cyrus held power; the Persian Empire hadn't risen to challenge Babylon.

Historical Fulfillment

History records the fulfillment with striking precision:

- In 587/586 BCE, Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, burned the temple, and exiled many Judeans to Babylon (as detailed in 2 Kings 25 and Jeremiah).

- In 539 BCE, Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylon without major battle, entering through open gates (as ancient historians like Herodotus describe).

- Around 538 BCE, Cyrus issued a decree allowing exiled peoples, including Jews, to return and rebuild temples.

The Bible preserves this in Ezra 1:2-4: "Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem... Whoever is among you of all his people... let him go up to Jerusalem... and rebuild the house of the Lord."

Verifiable Evidence

Extra-biblical confirmation comes from the Cyrus Cylinder, a clay artifact discovered in 1879 in Babylon (now in the British Museum). This inscription details Cyrus's policy after conquering Babylon: restoring temples, returning deported peoples and their gods to homelands, and promoting local worship. While it doesn't name Jews or Jerusalem specifically (focusing on Babylonian and Mesopotamian examples), it corroborates the general imperial approach matching the biblical decree—repatriation and temple reconstruction as acts of benevolence.

Archaeological evidence supports the return and rebuilding: Persian-period artifacts in Jerusalem, temple reconstruction completed around 515 BCE under Darius I (building on Cyrus's edict), and records from historians like Josephus aligning with this timeline.

Scholarly Debate

The timeline gap—about 150-200 years from Isaiah's ministry (ca. 740-681 BCE) to Cyrus's decree—impresses many as evidence of foreknowledge. The Dead Sea Scrolls include a complete Isaiah manuscript from around 125 BCE, with the Cyrus passages intact, predating later events.

Critics argue the "Deutero-Isaiah" section (chapters 40-55) dates to the exile period (550-539 BCE), after Cyrus rose, making it contemporary encouragement rather than prediction. This multiple-authorship theory explains the specificity without supernatural elements. Conservative scholars defend single authorship, citing stylistic unity, ancient traditions, and no pre-exile manuscript evidence for division.

The events occurred as described: Cyrus enabled the Jewish return and temple rebuild, fulfilling the prophecy's core actions. Whether this proves divine foreknowledge or reflects skilled post-event writing remains debated—but the historical record stands verified by archaeology and ancient sources.

Similar discussions apply to the Book of Daniel, with detailed empire successions (Babylon, Persia, Greece, etc.) fulfilled accurately up to the 2nd century BCE, though critics date its final form to that era for the same reasons.

This episode in history continues to provoke thought: a named ruler, unborn and unknown, rises to restore a distant city and people, centuries after the words were recorded. The evidence is there for examination.

ChatGpt
Here is my own telling of the Isaiah 45 story—focused on one simple question: Did what Isaiah 45 described actually happen in verifiable history, or not?

A God Who Stakes His Identity on Time
Ancient humanity was never short of gods. Every culture had many—gods of war, rain, fertility, wisdom. What they all shared was this: none of them were testable. They explained the past, justified the present, but never put their identity on the line in a way history itself could verify.

Isaiah records something different.
In Isaiah 40–48, the God of Israel does not argue philosophically. He does not demand blind faith. Instead, He proposes a test:

If you are gods, tell the future. Declare what is to come.

This is an audacious claim. Predictive specificity is dangerous—because it can be checked later. False gods avoid that risk. The God of Isaiah embraces it. Then He does something without precedent in ancient religious literature: He names a future political leader, assigns him a task, and ties His own credibility to whether it happens.

The name is Cyrus. The Problem With Cyrus:
When Isaiah wrote, several things were true:

1. Jerusalem was still standing.
2. The Temple was still intact
3. Israel was not in exile
4. Persia was not a world empire
5. Cyrus did not exist
6. His parents did not exist
7. His grandparents did not exist

Yet Isaiah 44–45 speaks of Cyrus as though he is already alive—called by name, addressed directly, assigned a mission:

1. He will subdue nations
2. He will open gates no one can shut
3. He will rebuild Jerusalem
4. He will order the Temple rebuilt
5. He will release Israel’s captives

This is not vague symbolism. These are administrative, political actions. At the time, they made no sense.

Isaiah Dies. History Moves On.
Roughly 50 years later, something Isaiah never lived to see happens:

1. Babylon attacks Jerusalem
2. The Temple is burned
3. The population is deported

Only now does Isaiah’s prophecy even become relevant. Before this, it sounded unnecessary. After this, it sounded impossible.

Isaiah is gone. His words remain—unfulfilled, uneditable.

Enter Cyrus of Persia
About 150 years after Isaiah wrote, Cyrus II is born in Persia. He rises to power, conquers Babylon in 539 BC, and becomes ruler of the dominant empire of the world.

Then comes the historical hinge.

In 538 BC, Cyrus issues a decree allowing displaced peoples to return to their homelands and rebuild their temples. Among them are the Jews.

The biblical record preserves the decree (Ezra 1). But this is not the only source.

The Extra-Biblical Evidence
In 1879, archaeologists discovered the Cyrus Cylinder, now housed in the British Museum. It is a royal inscription written in Cyrus’s own time, describing his policy of restoring temples and repatriating exiled peoples.

The cylinder does not quote Isaiah. It does not mention Jerusalem by name. And that is precisely why it matters.
It independently confirms that:

1. Cyrus had a consistent imperial policy of restoration
2. He issued decrees allowing captives to return He rebuilt temples destroyed by Babylon
3. This is exactly the behavior Isaiah attributed to him—long before Babylon ever destroyed Jerusalem.

Biblical text and Persian archaeology converge without dependence on each other.

Did Cyrus Know Isaiah?

Possibly later. But the crucial point is this: Isaiah’s prophecy existed before the events It could not be edited after fulfillment. It named a specific individual. It described actions that only became meaningful decades later. It aligns with independent historical records.

If the prophecy were written after the fact, it would be detectable. Scholars debate many biblical texts—but Isaiah’s pre-exilic sections are firmly dated before Cyrus. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirm the text’s antiquity and stability.

Why This Matters
The God of Isaiah does not say, “Believe because I am powerful.”

He says, “Believe because I can do what no false god can: tell you what will happen, then make it happen.”

He even explains His motive:

So that the ends of the earth may know that I am the LORD, and there is no other.

This is not tribal bragging. It is a universal claim tied to public history.

Isaiah Is Not Alone. The Cyrus episode is not unique.

Daniel outlines centuries of geopolitical succession with disturbing precision. Later historians were so unsettled by its accuracy that some argued it must have been written after the events—until manuscript evidence proved otherwise.

The Bible repeatedly puts itself in a position where time itself can refute it.

False religions do not do that.

My Conclusion Either: Isaiah 45 is an extraordinary coincidence involving names, empires, timing, and archaeology aligning by chance or The text records a God who operates outside time and uses history as His signature. Isaiah offers no third option.

This God does not shout. He does not compete loudly with other gods.

He hides—quietly embedding His identity into the future. And centuries later, history answers for Him.

That is the question Isaiah leaves behind—not “Is God powerful?” But “Who else can do this?”

The True God Flaunts His ID Card

Satan overwhelmed men with a myriad of gods so that they would be too confused to identify the true God. But in Isaiah 45, the true God who created the universe identified Himself with proofs. He raised up His Personal ID - the ability to create the future.

He challenged all those calling themselves gods to declare the future if indeed they were gods. He then began to talk about Cyrus, a man whose grandparents as at that time were not yet born. Yet, God was mentioning the name that had not even been christened to anyone.

Isaiah the prophet himself was so awed that he exclaimed in verse 15, "You are a God that hides Himself, oh God of Israel the Savior." Yes, God is an introvert. He hides Himself. That's His nature. You've got to go find Him if you want Him.

God then went ahead to speak to this unborn Cyrus like an already living person, and told him how He'll bless him while also instructing him on the assignment that Cyrus must accomplish for Him - he'll rebuild Jerusalem and return its captives back to the land of Israel. As at that time, Jerusalem was still standing and needed no rebuilding, and also, there were no captives of Jerusalem anywhere. Yet, God instructed Cyrus to rebuild the temple that was not yet fallen, and return the captives that didn't yet exist.

About some 50 years later, Babylon attacked Jerusalem, burnt down the temple and took the inhabitants of Jerusalem away as captives to Babylon. At this time, Isaiah the prophet who gave the prophecy had already died and was long forgotten.

150 years after the prophecy, Cyrus was born in far away Persia to parents who knew nothing about the God of Israel or the 150 year old prophecy about any Cyrus. A few years later, Cyrus became king of Persia. During his reign, he gave order to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem and for the captives of Israel to return to their land, unknowingly fulfilling a prophecy that was made about him 150 years before he was born.

150 years ago when God was declaring about unborn Cyrus, He made it known that He was doing it so that all the ends of the earth may know that the God of Israel is God, and that beside Him there is no other god.

ChatGpt and Grok AIs captured these stunning moments in a very thoughtful and provoking manner, mentioning the relevant verses of Scripture and extra biblical accounts of the events as well as archeological references confirming this staggering occurrence of history declared 150 years before it happened.

The obvious truth is that many such declarations exists in the Bible such as in the Book of Daniel which declared about 500 years of history in advance in such striking details that stunned historians. Its details received very precise fulfilments to the very last letter.

Over to ChatGpt and Grok.

LordReed:
Job1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

Did it really say heaven? We were never told where the presentation took place. You're just assuming.

Do you or do you not concede that the heaven you believe in depicts the possibility?

I have told you that heaven is a pure place because there's no sin there. Hence, no evil.

DeepSight:
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Surely I don't have to start pointing out contradictions again. I am quite tired.

You're getting confused. I'll clear every tomorrow in a post.

DeepSight:
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Leave sarcasm and tell me where the bible says what you claim sir.

Not sarcasm. I'm certainly creating a post tomorrow. I'll mention you.

LordReed:
What makes it different? According to your book Satan was an angel and he goes to heaven sometimes so evil can be in heaven no?

No, he doesn't go to heaven.

It still doesn't matter because you concede that the possibility exists.

No, it does. I don't know what you said I conceded.

DeepSight:
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If you don't mind, I'd like to see the verses where it says so.

This is the place of understanding. Wait for tomorrow when I'll share the whole Bible in 1 minute.

DeepSight:
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So who created evil.

Evil itself is a byproduct of sin. Since the world has become a sinful world, it had to be balanced by good. And good is only enjoyable because of evil in a sinful world.

Mind you, the omniscient and omnipotent one who created creatures who do evil necessarily created evil.

God didn't want zombies. He didn't want robots. He wanted humans who can choose their actions and be responsible for it. Only that condition validated love and loyalty, without which the world wound be boring. So, everything was good until man choose to obey a different master.

This is aside from his confession in Isaiah that he does indeed create evil.

He created evil for the purpose of judgement because now there was sin I. The world. That is still different from the evil that arises as a byproduct of sin.

DeepSight:
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The point is from where do you derive the magisterial authority to make that rule and consign it to Earth alone.

I'm telling you the position of the Bible.

DeepSight:
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Special pleading.
And how did you arrive at it at all events.

You can apply it locally. Not everything applicable in Nigeria is applicable in USA

DeepSight:
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I don't know how you don't see the numerous contradictions here. Do I have to point them out?

Point them out. I can see you have a lot to understand.

DeepSight:
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Hence good cannot be appreciated in heaven if there is no evil there, as LordReed has rightly noted.

The rule applies to earth alone. It doesn't apply to the entire universe.