₦airaland Forum

dmcdad:
I never compared Ronaldo to Messi. I just brought him in as a reference to prove my point that sometimes you can't win it all. Nevertheless, IMO Messi has done more than enough to earn national glory, but then, there comes the clogs in his wheels.

Good. Messi doesn't need to win anything with Argentina to be considered greater than Ronaldo. Messi has destroyed him enough on club level. I'm basically irritated by such arguments.

Honestly, Pelé wouldn't have done it without Garincha. Do you know many folks say Pelé is over-rated in that Garincha was better? More like the duo of Ronaldinho and Eto'o. Garincha was the catalyst behind everything, while Pelé was the goal poacher. At the end of the day, Pelé got all the glory while Garincha went unnoticed by a vast majority.

This is simply not true. I suspect you don't know enough of what you're talking about here so i won't address this.

As for Maradona, IMHO too, I don't think he did more than Messi. Given, on the international stage, yes he did but Messi kills him with club football. Although it can be argued that Messi benefited from having better teammates in club level, yet such can be said of Maradona too on the international stage at the time. Meanwhile, some people misappropriately say Maradona singlehandedly won the world cup in 86. While he did a lot to win that trophy, coupled with his hand-of-god move, it ain't entirely true too.

Maradona Argentines teammates in 86' weren't exactly crap but Messi has had much better to work with in the Argentine team and has achieved nothing currently. Maradona also had a good stint with Napoli though not as successful as Messi on club level but Messi has had far better teammates at Barcelona also.

Now, my point is this... Teammates matter a great deal. Messi had done and is still doing alot to give Argentina something tangible. While it's true that he is not the same player at Barça, it is also true that he doesn't play the same role in Argentina. Role here and not about position. In Barça, he is the reference point. Everything flows with and through him. In Argentina that ain't the case. He is just another team player, hence, the sometimes occasional passive game like an average player. If Higuain and the rest had done the needful at the time, then this never-ending argument would have been more favourable to him.

No but you need to understand the function of ''greatest'' or what it means to be called the GOAT. For instance the Brazilian team in 1970 had so many ridiculous attacking players and should have been an unbalanced side but Pele was the major factor that kept everything ticking and made everything work so flawlessly. He was that good.
Maradona took albeit an average Argentine side and orchestrated almost every single attacking move and pulled the strings that kept the team ticking together until they reached the final and won the competition.
Those are the elite definition of greatness. Di Stefano was an extremely good footballer and had a better club career than Maradona but Maradona is still rated ahead of him and for good reason.

Finally, I understand your stand. And like you rightly pointed out, it gets extremely debatable. But the factor we should take cognizance of is that, while those days country football was the opium and the all-and-all in footie, nowadays it's not so much.

I think people forget the past too easily or many weren't even born then but it's no excuse to underrate great players. IMO Pele is the greatest footballer ever and i don't see that changing anytime soon. You can only beat what's in front of you and Pele was light years ahead of his time/generation. I would go to any length to prove it.

This is always a never-ending debate. A merry-go-round even. Even if Messi wins this Copa, I still think a lot would still downplay his impact or achievement on the international stage. I feel his only saving grace would be a world cup trophy. And that at this time would almost be impossible. So the debate lingers on...

Unfortunately the Copa isn't enough. A World cup trophy would go a great length and help Messi in the Maradona comparisons but with Pele it becomes a stretch too far. Let's leave it at that.

I can see France losing this one unless they make some drastic changes. Bringing in Martial or Conman for a start.

dmcdad:
I guess I already did with the post below the last one I quoted you. Seen? That spells it.

Am I right or not?

I don't think Ronaldo's legacy is gonna come even close to Messi's but I think people get too ahead of themselves when they place him close to Pele or even Maradona.

It gets extremely debateable then.

rozayx5:
please what time is the final

1 am tomorrow.

dmcdad:
A trophy! Or should I narrow it to his own continent? Copa Libertadores...?

You didn't know my motive for asking that question, yet you quickly came up with this question. Hmmmm. No wahala sha.

You shouldn't have asked that question whatever your motive might be and you'll soon understand why.

Say your motive now; let's see how much it'll change.

raumdeuter:
What an awful game

No one needs to tell you its between Wales and Northern Ireland filled with players from the English league

The poor play didn't have much to do with the players but it was as a result of both sides playing conservatively.

I think this Portugal vs Croatian game was worse. No shots on target in 90 mins of play. Now how would you blame the English league for this one too?

I won't be surprised to see Portugal reach the finals.

dmcdad:
And how many Champions League?

What is champions league to Pele?

BarcaBlood:
I dnt think winning this copa will make leo any greater/lesser of a great but it will sure clear doubts about his performance for ARG, he deserves dis one after leading dem to d 3rd final in 3 years. He z bin so unlucky with d NT, hope his luck changes tomorrow

Good post.

airmark:
what of your reputable whoscored.com ?

How many EPL players in this team? How many bundesliga players?

TRendlona:
Just checked it..
Some are saying its true while some are saying is false...

Show us where they're saying it's true. Let's see the link to the news/article by a reputable source. The onus is on you to do that or simply shut up and accept you were peddling falsehood.

bykebyke:
What argument?

That we didn't win the trophies or what?

The argument was about Barcelona being the most successful club in the world which I destroyed.

That image couldn't save you guys when it mattered.

Dadehmola:
Barca fans & Ignorance/Falsehood sha...

Na peeps ĺike this dey spread rumour that year say India trash Naija 99-1 say ball dey turn into lion

A good number of Nigerians still believe that even till now.

If we don't stop these rumors from spreading, it won't take long for some people to regard it as truth.

Trendlona abi Barcelona I'm still waiting for that proof.

TRendlona:
FYI, I'm not d one creating dis. I saw it on an Instagram page nd i felt like letting u guys know since he is a Bayern player...

Who said you're the one that created it? I'm you asking to stop posting it because it's nonsense. Linking a Polish football player like Lewandoski to Hitler is stupid and his people can stone you for that. You don't want me discussing what the Germans did to Poland.
Why don't you take every Bayern related image from Instagram to post here?

BTW hw dd u knw its false??

I told you there's no proof of something and you're asking me how I know know it's false?
Alright since you posted the image and refused to move on after I told you it's nonsense, now provide proof!

TRendlona:
Did u know??

This is no proof of this anywhere so it's as good as concocted falsehood. Stop helping to propagate silly rumors. Just because something was written and displayed into an image doesn't mean it's true. I thought some of you Barcelona folks here would have learnt this by now. That was how you guys circulated that stupid image listing the numbers of trophies won by each club with Barcelona at the top but it didn't stop me from destroying your arguments when i had to.

edoyad:
I got fired and it seemed like Armageddon. But then I started to remember SOME fans who will be watching European matches on those cold Thursday nights next season, then I say to my self, "pheww, atleast I'm not one them." , my dark day suddenly became sunshine with a dozen rainbows.

What do you silly Arsenal fans gain by watching CL matches? Is it to watch other teams win it every year? Please tell me.

I understand you're currently depressed because you got fired but stop trying to find silly comfort in things that do not exist. Please try searching for another job and get employed because it's this type of thinking that enabled Arsenal to become the useless club it is today and i hope your life doesn't end up the same way.

raumdeuter:
This Mikitaryan deal is a reason Bundesliga teams sell to Bayern

Nuri Sahin Captain and best player went to Madrid for 10M

Kagawa best player went to Man Utd for 16M

Gotze upcoming young player went to Bayern for 37M

Hummels captain(whose form has been suspect lately) went to Bayern for 38M

But Mikitarayan best player and bundesliga player of the year they are still dragging fees

Bayern would rather wait to get him for free in this scenario. He's not exactly an urgent signing.
We bought Kagawa for a good sum but gave him back to them for almost nothing after he flopped. Gotze though overrated currently at the time was quite exceptional. I would say he was much more than the regular upcoming player you're trying to portray here and that's why he had a release clause that was fair and the price was easy to match for any big club to match but it was Bayern who triggered it. You guys deservedly paid a premium on Hummels because the circumstances/conditions were extremely favorable to you guys and there were selling to a rival.
We have a good relationship with Dortmund and if we are dragging fees, then it's for good reason.

SIRcumalot:
I don't know this mikhitaryan guy well enough to say which kind of player he is,but 30mill is too much for a guy in the last year of his contract i'll rather we get him for free next season.
we need to make a stand sometime,we can't continue paying way above market value for everybody.

Good post.

Diademk07:
I recall you stating something like this: 'It's silly to think.....' And so-on. Many would have taken offense to that.
You behaved yourself on there though but can't seem to do that on here, just like many eediots on here.

He didn't because he knew it wasn't an insult or I didn't mean to insult him. If I wanted to, he'll know.
Not everyone is as stupid as you. People are different and I try to treat them as they deserve. You should be wondering why almost everyone seems to treat you the same way. Do you think that they are all wrong about you? It's impossible.

Now don't tell lies. I had a good debate with A40 and I doubt that Bayern thread wouldn't have been painted red by me or him if i had insulted him. See Pataki/Dadehmola arguments with him for example. There's a good difference.

Nihilist:
Clearly I was wrong.

The fact that he was making a cogent arguments that day led me to believe that he was just being bullied by the likes of Dadehmola and co.

Since then the guy has been shockingly bad. It's not like he even takes a contrarian position or plays devils advocate. The guy is just crazy.

Dadehmola doesn't do that or nobody bullies this guy here. He's just actually very terrible. He's been like this for a long time. Most United folks here know of him for some time now. His previous moniker was Kagawa10 and his posts then was just as bad as this diadem07's. I doubt he'll ever change. I try to ignore him most times but some times he just gets under my skin when he says somethings so silly and i find it difficult to let go or sometimes he just quotes me to get a debate he can't win, or claim there's an error in my post when it's false.

lekkie073:
d guy na something else ....even with facts and figures staring at him in d face he wont agree......
I just hope he doesn't come here one day and start arguing abouth the present year we are in

I hope soon everyone realizes that he's simply a lunatic and a troll. Too bad he had to be a United fan and disturb us every day on these pages.

Nihilist:
I know for a fact that this boy has a long list of uninformed statements, and just picks one or two statements to drop a day...depending on his mood.

This same guy that said LVG did not know Di Maria's position and called Karim Benzema a black man.

This guy is either the Godfather of Trolls in it's ultimate evolved form in bankai mode...or just breathtakingly stupid.

This is most certainly not normal.

I knew that praise you were giving him the other day would return to bite you. This guy is a confirmed lunatic. He's wrong almost every time and although he gets somethings right, i don't think he gets these things right because he actually knows what he's saying.I have realized he stumbles on it. Even a clock that has stopped working is right twice per day and the same thing is true for lunatics like him.

kokaneprodigy:
Mikhi rejected arsenal and just yesterday u raised ur bid to 28M.

Mumu. Dortmund rejected the bid and wants more money for him. They can determine the price through negotiations because Mikhi doesn't have a release clause. Mikhi wants the move as much as possible. It's his dream move in fact and his agent has confirmed everything. Mikhi's agent Raiola is mad at Dortmund and threatening fire and brimstone to get him to United. Don't say something silly or i would expose you quite easily.

Arsenal actually triggered Vardy's release clause and Leceister had no say in that and they couldn't have stopped him from leaving. That's what a release clause does and i don't except an illiterate like you to understand that. It was all Vardy's personal decision by then but he rejected Arsenal. That's it. He rejected you guys because he knows Arsenal is one useless club. Deal with it.

Diademk07:
Worse? That Chelsea rated Willian more and made big money move for him than Mikhi whom Chelsea actually saw in the performance against them than someone who's interested in his ukranian league performance?

Why didn't Chelsea go for him when he was leaving Shaktar? Why did he earn a move to a useless Russian club as early as January while Mikhi left for Dortmund at the ending of the season?
I don't care what happens next because for all i know Mikhi too could move to United tomorrow. I'm interested in their initial transfers when they left Shaktar. Mikhi left for a better club because he was actually the better player in that Shaktar team. It's a fact you can't change.
Why didn't Chelsea sign Douglas Costa etc who performed against them too? The Chelsea signing saved Willian not the other way round. The Russian club was forced to sell him due to financial troubles as I've proved and any club with money like Chelsea could have bought him not necessarily because he was as good as Mikhi who Dortmund had to fight off other big clubs like Liverpool to get.
You're just being silly here. I'm not surprised as i'm used to you being a trash talking lunatic.

You are just a pointless and useless human being. Believe me, this is true.
I said Mikhi was the better player then. I'm saying he's the better player now. You can't disprove any of this. This is the last you'll here from me on this. Your lunacy in this debate has gotten to ridiculous levels and i don't see myself continuing.

Diademk07:
Lol!
I thought you said Eto's wasn't in his prime and that I was lying?

Are you blind or what? I stated again in that post you quoted it wasn't Eto's prime. I didn't deny anything.

Moreso, Ii doesn't matter if Willian went for the money or not but the main point is Chelsea went for him for 35mil euros instead of Mikhi if they had thought Mikhi performed better than him against them.

What is the new main point you're inventing again?
Please just shut up and stop saying nonsense. Every time i destroy your argument, you bring up something even worse.

Diademk07:
I was expecting you to bring that up!
But do you actually think Chelsea would have gone for him if he wasn't any good enough and at that price?
Moreso, Eto'o left Inter for Anzhi in 2011, a year after Inter treble.

Eto had won everything there was to win, conquered Europe and wasn't looking for a step up in career unlike Willian. He was looking for money and Anzhi made him the highest paid player in the world. That club was like a retirement home for players who were past it but needed silly money. That wasn't Eto prime.

Stop asking me silly questions and face reality. Willian ended up in a useless club in Russia while Mikhi left for Dortmund and Chelsea only bought him because the Russian club had financial difficulty and had to sell. Chelsea aren't anything special in making good transfers and throw money away more often than not just like United.

Mikhi was the better player and is the better player now too. You should be ashamed you're even debating that.

Diademk07:
I edited my post already but let me reiterate.
Big club hardly make moves for player in the winter. Willian left for Anzi in January for the dough, just the same way Eto'o in his prime left inter for the same Anzhi.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Eto wasn't in his prime when he left for Anzhi. Stop telling lies to defend Willian because I've exposed he moved to a useless club in his prime.

However, Willian exploits that season was never forgotten and the reason why he didn't spend more than 6 month at Anzi before his move to a big club.

Stop with the lies.
Below is the real reason Willian got sold and not because he was anything special. The Russian club had to sell him unlike Dortmund who want to keep Mikhi and United are struggling to sign him.

[img]http://cs631916.vk.me/v631916248/3ae34/6qRCGZXU5zk.jpg[/img]

Moreso, despite Dortmund gradual rise, top players would still always favour top clubs over them except such players lacks option, just as the case of Mikhi.
Why did you think Mikhi wants to leave Dortmund now?

I didn't ask you again for this nonsense. I only stated that Mikhi signed for a better club in Dortmund( Liverpool and other PL clubs were interested) than Willian who ended up with a useless club in Russia.

Diademk07:
Lol!
You mean you rated him on games you never saw?
Unbelievable!
My sight is damn good though. I rarely get it wrong with players and I could see why big clubs came calling for the likes of Willian and Fernandinho while clubs like Pool and Dortmund were the one interested in Mikhi.

What nonsense are you saying again here?
When Willian left Shaktar, he joined Anzhi Makhachkala in Russia. Is that a big club ? Please tell me
Willian who you rate so much was playing in the useless Russian league and only ended up at Chelsea because Anzhi Makhachkala had financial troubles and had to sell him to make ends meet.

When Mikhi left Shaktar he joined, Dortmund who won the Bundesliga a year ago then and currently a the 2nd best team in the league after Bayern.

Dortmund is/was a far bigger club than Anzhi Makhachkala.

Diademk07:
Not for me, I watched plenty of Shaktar CL games (Barca, Dortmund, Chelsea, Juve etc) and I don't even recall knowing him as a player let alone forming an opinion on him until his big money move to Dortmund.

So CL games are the only games in the season to judge a player? You didn't consider the league which has far more games and spans across different times. You goofed here.
Why did Willian end up in a useless club in Russia initially when he left Shaktar if he was so highly rated while Mikhi moved to Dortmund at the end of that season?
If not for Chelsea that bought his sorry ass from that club, who knows where he would've ended up.

Only Fernandinho, Willian, Costa and their right-back, Srna caught my eyes.

Your have poor eyes. I have known this for a long time already.

Diadem07 was Mikhi the best player in that Shaktar team that included Willian or not?

It's very simple. Stop doing this to yourself. Now you are debating who's the better player between them.

Diademk07:
I don't care for all this.
The main thing is on the world stage, he looked average apart from scoring against Norjjalland team in the CL.
He looked poor against Dortmund, Chelsea, Juve and recently, vs Liverpool.
That's not forgetting, he was rubbish before this season.

I never debated the nonsense you just stated above.

I said he was the best player in that Shaktar team then and you said it wasn't true. Then I proved it and now you are saying something else and talking about his time at Dortmund. Who asked you for the above? Why did you quote my initial post to say nonsense?

Just shut up, accept your goof and move on abeg.

afrodoc2:
Willian scored 20 league goals in 140 matches for Shakhtar
Mkhitaryan scored 38 league goals in just 72 matches...............there is no comparison in terms of effectiveness or creativity or passing ability.
The only place Willian beats him is power and pace......however Willian tends to do nothing with the ball at the end of his runs

You'll be suprised at the reply he'll give you here.
When I said Mikhi was Shaktar's best player then, he obviously didn't know that.