₦airaland Forum

I see we are strongly linked to Mkhitarian, even the BBC is on it. We have made a low bid which Dormund rejected. That's good I would say.

I though he was gonna certainly end up at Arsenal and now it won't take long for Arsenal folks to say that's he's sh1t because they aren't getting him.

diggz:
Nice one from the coach. A great example for coaches to follow,no be the one wey dem go dey suck useless/underperforming players balls.

Meanwhile, I saw your comment on cfc trying to sign Andre Gomez. Please do you mind sharing your general opinion about the guy? I havent seen the dude play before. Thanks.

He's talented but not worth that price even for a punt. He's an attacking AM with impressive technique but he's very inconsistent and far from being a world beater. He's tall or lanky and physical enough for the PL, tidy on the ball and has some pace. I watched him play at Valencia and he didn't stand out to me especially with the mediocre season they had. He's part of the Portuguese squad at the Euros and I think he played on the wings(not his best position) but managed to assist a goal to conclude a decent performance. I don't know if he could do a job for Chelsea but here at United I don't find him good enough as an upgrade to any of our current options in his position like Herrera for example so we don't need him and not especially at the prices being quoted.

The French line up is out. Martial and Conman start on the wings, with Payet in the middle and Giroud as CF ; Pogba and Griezman have been dropped. It's obvious Deschamps the French coach has some balls, even more than Hougston to drop the two biggest French faces of the tournament for under performing in the previous game. Albania would sit back mostly and this could be interesting. I hope Martial takes this chance properly to cement a place. Well if he fails to, then he would play few minutes in the tournament and that's not bad either because he'll be fresher for next season. Either way, it's win win.

bigkesh:
BREAKING: Sky sources: Valencia reject Chelsea bid of £32m for Portugal midfielder Andre Gomes

They want £42m

Last summer all over again

He is not worth even 32. He sent Mourinho a come and get me plea but I hope United stay clear of this one.

Nihilist, you still managed to avoid my question about Depay?

I have moved on.

Nihilist:
GBR1 let's do this another time before we bore people.

I was bored already. Yea, another time.

Nihilist:
Oga look in the mirror.

That is what black looks like.

How many players that look like you play in creative positions in Europe?

Either as a 10 a la Silva or a deep lying Playmaker like Fabregas.

I will admit mixed race playears for sake of discussion, but Arabs?

Come off it man.

Arabs are not black.

Brazilians are completely mixed and have already been classed as south American, so let's leave them out tesco conversation. Neymar is on record as stating that he is not black sef...

The main guys are Blacks, either born in Africa or in diaspora that have at least one pure black parent.

Please submit your answer.

How did this argument dissolve in 10s? tell me, did we start with this?
Oh you knew this, now tell me why you mentioned Depay earlier as a black player when he's so light but yet deny that Ronaldinho, Ronaldo etc are black players? Or you'd say Pele is mixed and isn't black because he was a South American? And now you are saying you won't accept south Americans even the mixed ones as black? We both know why though; your argument would get completely obliterated by examples of AMs like Ronaldinho if you do, it's that obvious. When it favors your argument a player is black, but a similar player is not black when he's an exception to your argument. You have finally cornered yourself, what else would you say? Well done.

You should have moved on before it reduced to this. This is what happens when your argument is a proper ''bad market''.

Nihilist:
I mentioned Pirlo, Modric, etc.

Truth is you won't find a pure black player there...and if you remember the origin of the argument, we were talking about 'ugly black players' to quote dopejemi.

What is pure black player again? Must they be extremely dark like Mane or Pele? How do you know Pele wasn't mixed either? He was a Brazilian and a lot of them are mixed
Soon you'll claim he's not black. When you mentioned Depay earlier for your intents, i didn't take you up on it; Is Depay a pure black player?

Stop being mischievous!

SailorXY:
I don't understand the much emphasis on No. 10s tho.
There can be very creative players from other positions.
Until this man-behind-striker became this popular, default formations used to be with striker partners where creativity came primarily from the flanks & between the strikers setting up themselves. I remember quite a number of dark men excel in these type of partnerships. Andy & Dwight easily come to mind.

I know for particular that in the 50s, 10s represented a different position for players on the pitch.
Don't mind Nihilist. It's obvious he's being very mischievous thinking that 10s are the definition of creativity/intelligence in a player. Then i wonder how players like Redondo or Beckenbauer became regarded as very creative or intelligent even when they weren't 10s.

Nihilist:
LOL why would I have to Google those names when I've actually seen 1 or two of them play live?

Those guys are relative wastemen no doubt, but they're still better than the next Black number 10...no wait...there aren't any.

Kevin prince Boateng, Nabir Fekir, Mane, Andre Ayew or even Eto, Toure are better 10s than any of the waste men you mentioned. I have given yoi enough names. But why did you have to narrow it down to number 10? I'm gonna end the use of this poor analysis you are employing ridiculous logic to manipulate, just watch.

That's why I asked you for black equals to those.

Can you give me a Black Brad Friedel? Or a Black Clint Dempsey in the last 10 years? Tim Howard is also American though mixed race. Why isn't there a black analogue of these guys?

See above.
I gave you Tim howard, now you're denying he's black when he's know as that in his own country. He's a fecking black american. I won't even debate this any further.

Like I've said over and over, Black players are usually defenders, Big bruising midfielders(Pogba) or wingers (Coman and Martial)

Don't you find other strange that we can point to number 10s from almost race except the negro race?

I don't remember Pogba being deployed as a defensive midfielder. At worse he's a B2B in a pivot. He's actually an attacking midfielder and a very creative one at that but you're only changing the narrative to help pass a point that won't even help you. You are being untruthful here. I just went through your initial posts and i saw how much you have changed the base of the argument. You first stated that blacks were less technically gifted than their white counterpart and that's why they often ended up as defenders or in defensive positions. Then i gave you the list of some of the best attacking talents ever seen who were black and you narrowed your argument to creative midfielders when i have already given you someone like Gullit who was quite extraordinary. Then things got too difficult for you to handle again, so you starting asking for those kind of players in the last 10 years.
I'm sure if we go on, you'll start asking for two footed non athletic very creative black midfielders who have played for top footballing clubs/nations in the last 7 days.

This argument was never gonna work for you and now you have put yourself in a terrible position.

Japan has produced so many....from Nakamura to Kagawa.

More waste men to further your point. What about China or India with more population than the entire Africa? Please name their creative midfielders. Soon you'll say the Indians and Chinese(over 2 billion people combined) are not intelligent enough and Africa has produced far more than them.

[s]Spain, Germany, France, Holland etc all have them Boku. [/s]

Even Mkhtaryan from only God knows where follow join.

Yet the only black players we see are big, black, brawny and/or fast playing in every other position except number 10 and creative midfield.

Every two years AFCON convenes looking like an armed robbers convention, full of brutes in tight jerseys.

The greatest black midfielder of the last 10 years is Yaya Toure and that says it all really.

How many world class players have Armenia produced FFS?
Yaya Toure will retire having a better career playing for top clubs than any of those waste men you mentioned. At least those black players like Viera, Thuram were world class playing at the absolute top level in their positions something none of those waste men you mentioned were capable of.

Nihilist this debate is stale already and i don't see myself going on with it. You haven't brought up anything new that i did not destroy with my first shot at it and i will do similar to any new thing you bring up and if this argument wasn't so ridiculous to begin with, you'll be doing better than this and you know that. Just let it go and move on.

Nihilist:
I didn't need to address the rest of your post because it's not particularly relevant to the discussion.

America and Australia are irrelevant to the discussion because both are not big football nations.

It's very relevant. Those are examples of predominantly white nations and the white people there don't agree with your theory. If the biggest white nation (US) can't produce these good white footballers, then why should the likes of Nigeria or Ghana even bother?If Australia can't why should African countries like Malawi, Swaziland, Lesotho, Kenya produce great footballers? Are those ones big footballing nations too?

Let us focus on the big football nations, with relatively large populations of black people, with ample reprrsention of blacks in domestic competition and at national level, and equal access to top class training.

This is basically impossible and it's impratical to focus on something that doesn't exist. Even the most advanced African nations like S/africa or Egypt have very poor leagues, low quality footballing facilities etc. Then we have Nigeria.

Australia is big on Rugby union not football. I don't know if you're conversant with the sport(I am) and I will show EXACTLY the same thing happening there...with mainly white playmakers in the middle and blacks mainly on the flanks.

I have addressed this already. I explained very well.

Yet you have the likes of Harry Kewell and Tim Cahill who've come out of there. Heck Mile Jedinak is probably better now than any African central midfielder in thr last 5 years.

See the kind of rubbish waste men you had to come up with to defend Australia. I could bet you googled at least a name there. I was expecting a list of great players with superb technique and natural ability not those nonentities who are actually some of the best players in Australia abi White people no dey Australia?

America is rubbish at football.

Weak point again. I could use this to defend almost every African country simply by saying they are rubbish at football e.g Kenya, Ethiopia who do well at long distance races than football.

Even with that America has produced Clint Dempsey Brad Friedel Kasey Keller. Can you name one black number 10 or goal keeper over the last 10 years who has played at their level?

Another list of waste men. Can you compare these white players to their contemporaries in Europe?
Henry alone is better than all those players put together. By the time Tim howard retires, he would have had a better career than those guys.

Nihilist take time o.

So I have to ask you again...where is all the black talent hiding?

Are French players like Martial, Conman or Pogba white to you?

Nihilist you have to try and address almost every part or point in my previous post, and not just chose which part you feel you can address. The problem is that my whole piece too strong for you to debate against because you were wrong in the first place and soon you'll run out of things to say.
Just look at this part of my post and tell me how you'll counter it.

Now consider the US a country which has more white people than any European country or even any where in the world? Please show me the technical or talented players there grin
Australia is another good example; the current white people there are descendants of the British. Where are the great players?

sleekdot:
^^ SO why do we have to go by what white people say? Dont you know thats an inherently racist comment

To be white you have to be 100%

To be black you just need a drop of black blood 1%

Why not say It takes two blacks to make a black kid instead of getting all the racially ambiguous people dumped as blacks

I didn't mean to sound racist but that's the reality. You are completely right about the rest.

Nihilist:
We can't assess the level of initial talent and training of you and your friends, but we can look at the professional football world where the players have all undergone more or less similar amounts of training...and have largely been categorised via the recruitment process.

Holland is a country known for it's emphasis on technical training and ability. When you look at the white players to emerge from holland recently, you have artists like Robben, Sneijder, VdV etc...

When you look at the black players to emerge from Holland, you have the likes of Davids, Seedorf, Martins Indi,Hasselbaink. The first two did have considerable technical skill, but they are largely remembered for their power, stamina and hot shots.

Pataki will tell you that there are a large population of dutch born blacks in the eredivisie, but they generally tend to be in the same mould as the second group. Just look at Depay for instance.

You shouldn't have said this. Remove Davids and Seedorf from that your list abeg. Their technique was excellent enough and shouldn't even be in question simply because they spent most of their time in defensive positions. If they had played more forward, i doubt their physicality would have been in much review. There are good number of black Dutch players who possessed extremely good technique comparable to those possessed by their white peers.

Did you watch Ruud Gullit play? Was his technique average?
Or have you forgotten about other Dutch players like Kluivert or Rijkaard? Please tell me they were white.
Those are some of the greatest European and dutch players of all time and they were black, simple. What is the percentage of Black folks in the Netherlands' population for them to have contributed so much?

The jury is still out on Depay. It's even a weak excuse to bring up because the Oranje currently isn't churning out world beaters at the moment and it's to Depay credit that he might even be the best out of a bad bunch.

Europe has been dominating football since the early days of the sport. It's nothing new. South America were not 'Initial kings'. Uruguay won the 1st ever world cup in 1930....Italy won the next two world cups.

Europe had more world cup wins than South America as far back as the 80s sef...so that theory is dead in the water...especially as the great South Americans of the early days of the sport mostly played in South America.

In the beginning of the 80s, South America had 6 world cup wins (through 3 countries; Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina) while Europe had 5 (through Italy, Germany and England). Get your facts right!
Moreover my assertion even goes beyond just world cup wins. Brazil had a very good teams then and the best players in the world then(Brazilians) plied their trade there unlike now the best teams are just like a feeder for for the top European teams to pluck talent from. White European players though good were quite inferior to black Brazilian players like Garrincha, Pele and co in those days. The gap soon started to narrow and currently the gap has never been so narrow. So my earlier point still holds.

Don't compare European born blacks to African blacks who haven't had the same level of training. Compare European born black footballers to European born white footballers who've had the same training and the difference is clear. Look at the boateng family. 2 Good players - Germany took the defender, and left Kevin Prince for Ghana. Why?( He's not technical enough). In fact almost all the blacks in Germany's first team - Rudiger, Tah, Boateng....are defenders.

Is Sane white?
The population of black folks relative to the overall figure is very low in Germany. Wasn't it even in the beginning of this century that a black player first played in the German national team? Obviously you didn't know this because if you did you'd have realized that your proposition is a joke.

Look at England. 5 of the players that started for England vs Russia are Black. 3 were defenders.1 was a winger. Why?

Look at Portugal - That one is even so deeply divided. Black players = Athletes and/or Ishon. Whites = Artists.

Was Eusebio white? He's the greatest Portuguese player ever( though would be very debatable when Ronaldo retires).

I don't even think there are enough black folks in most European countries to affect adequately the generation of players in the national team. With time, you'll see better black players in attack and in almost every position. Black players are over represented in almost every European football team. Can you compare the percentage of black players in those European national teams to the actual percentage of Black people in those countries? You simply can't. Now many of those few black players in those countries might have had to make do with defensive positions because they were in unfair competition with their white counterparts and they would have better chances of becoming a successful footballer if they chose to play in defensive positions that would favor their natural athleticism which is an advantage for them compared to white folks hence the relatively high number of blacks in defensive positions. Some of those black folks could have had very different careers if they weren't black or conversely no career at all because some of those black players might actually not be talented enough to play football but they still end up as professional footballers in these European countries because they still possess a physicality advantage over the white guys.
This whole explanation is complicated but it's very correct and i believe you should be able to understand.

Why is it that Black players in Europe are either Brutish defenders, Brutish/Strong/Stamina defensive midfielders, or pacy wingers?

I have explained.

Why is there no black Pirlo? Where is the Black Ozil?

Ozil is Turkish which is far enough from being white. Turkey isn't a great footballing nation either.

Jay jay and Kanu were freaks and outliers...in a nation of pace and power, they were born with different other skills. They weren't fast or strong...they were completely different. The reaseon why we cant replicate them is that they are not usual occurrences here. Go to Europe and white JayJay and Kanu's boku.

I believe there are better footballing talents in Nigeria but they just haven't been discovered or the conditions for them to succeed is just very unfavorable. The development of football in most African countries like Nigeria is very poor especially at the grassroots.

This is just standard. At the last commonwealth games, I was watching England vs Austraiia table tennis doubles - ALl four of the players involved were Chinese.

I think i should agree with this but i feel it's also very debatable. The Chinese tennis culture for a nation with a population more than the entire Africa is quite important. Put it this way; it's the same reason Russia produces far better chess players ( a lot of grand-masters) than any other European country. Would you say the Russians are more intelligent than the British, Germans or the French? They didn't even invent the game. The Soviet union made chess part of the national culture during the cold war and they got ahead of everyone in the game. The union was dissolved since the early 90s but the results are still evident till today. Now go figure that out and why.

Different skills for different races. Thats a fact.

Maybe but not exactly for football and you've done a poor job proving it. Now consider the US a country which has more white people than any European country or even any where in the world? Please show me the technical or talented players there
Australia is another good example; the current white people there are descendants of the British. Where are the great players?

I knew exactly that i was right when i said it had nothing to do with the color of the skin.

sleekdot:
He is mixed. He can be either black or white.

So any prowess in Odemwengie can be due to either his black genes or white genes.

You are saying there is no half/mixed, so I am asking when a black and a white have kids, what race is the child?

The child is black and is always considered black. White people have always said it takes two white people(man and woman) to make a white kid.

Emaprince:
I will prefer Dembele in the middle over fellaini. That afro guy is not good in anything. Just a jack of all trade.

bigkesh:
Wilmots is a goat!!!!
God didn't give u Hazard,Carassco,KDB,Mertens,Dembele just for you to build the team around Fellaini!
I hope God can ever forgive me for comparing Lukaku to Drogba
Shoutout to captain Hazard,Witsel and Nainggolan.....
Conte I see u

Fellani has been better for Belgium than Hazard and this is a is fact. Find someone else to blame.

parrotibaba:
Belgian stars "hidden" as usual.

Who is their captain?

Fellani just can't help himself, can he? He didn't even spare Darmian
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2pdCCXEAAnsXV.jpg

SailorXY:
So I later learnt. The few I met on course @ the time were no different, it was easy to tell a Russian apart in a few minutes without even hearing them speak. Daring species, no difference between males & females.

You're certainly right but the speaking is a confirmatory test. Their accent almost always gives them away. That's for those of them that can even speak English, most of them cannot.

I received lots of mischievous banter from her in Russian (I didn't understand shiit) so I returned in kind with Hausa or Igbo or Yoruba, whichever came into my brain first.

Wow. It must have been total confusion. I speak Russian quite fluently but i know it sounds pretty gibberish to those who don't know the language. It was like that to me initially when i just arrived in the country.

It was generally fun, they are brilliant peeps.

Yes i agree but that's conditional. I have good Russian friends but it doesn't change the fact that a very good number of them are quite racist/xenophobic to blacks or even other races. Once you get past that, it's all fun.

SailorXY:
Nah. Just asking. I have a very good friend in the FSB, we bonked for a few weeks
Oh Lord... crazy motherfucker, even for me!

Seems pretty cool to me.

FSB is not a very cool organisation/agency though and most Russians are even mad folks.

SailorXY:
Are you in Russia?

Yes. Are you?

Nihilist:
I think you're the one who is getting confused.

Technique covers EVERY aspect of ball manipulation.

Slide tackling is as much a subset of Technique as is Shooting in my opinion.

Generally speaking most black\African players lack excellent technique, even the ones born abroad.

The blacks players born abroad who play football and have poor technique are like that because they do not possess a certain level of talent to work with. There are few black players abroad compared to the overall black population in Africa and when you have more a bigger sample size(like more blacks in a country relative to white) then you have a corresponding good number of black players who have very good technique coupled with excellent naturally occurring ability. That's a natural occurrence. You can say Europeans/South Americans are more naturally talented and i might agree but not when you say they have better technique simply because they are Caucasian. That's ridiculous. I play football leisurely in my spare time here with Russian folks(who are as Caucasian as you can get) and most of them have very poor technique and it's not that difficult to figure out why. Why do you think France has been developing so many black football talents of late? do you know the percentage of blacks in France? The parents of most of these black players are immigrants from french speaking African countries and some of their kids even have dual citizenship. Now how many players from those french speaking countries living in Africa end up as good players when they are brought up in Africa? very few. But what happens when they are born and trained in France? They become special.
Aren't there even more black players in Africa than France? Why do France a country who has fewer blacks than Africa end up producing far better black players than even the black African countries?

If you do a top 10 players of every technical skill known in footy, from dribbling to tackling, shooting to heading, passing to freekicks, I can bet you the list will be heavily dominated by Europeans/South Americans

I have explained how this works already due to talent. How did the Europeans come to dominate football today when South American countries were the initial kings? There was an incredible influx of great players and footballing talents to Europe and the Europeans leagues became better coupled with an advantage in financial standings and everything footballing aspect simply improved.

If you do a top 10 of players with athletic attributes, it will be dominated by Black's and Africans

Athleticism is a natural attribute and it is in different forms. The different positions of the torso in the body for example is one reason black tend to better runners and white better swimmers.

Thats just it. JayJay wasn't a physical force of nature. He was a bundle of skills. That's what made him and Kanu standout in a National team that is just known more for being fast and strong. That's the reason why we can't replicate those two. Oruma tried his hardest to be JJjnr...he just couldn't...because those two were exceptions not the norm to Africa

You are reinforcing what I've said. Jay jay and Kanu were simply more talented folks than the rest and this coupled with their technique made them better players and those who tried to replicate their footballing abilities but failed were simply not talented enough.

Nihilist:
We might be playing a friendly in Russia only 1 week to the start of the EPL.

These people just never learn sha.

Where exactly in Russia are you guys playing the friendly?

This thread sef. Nobody to moderate fights

Nihilist:
GBR1 I disagree.

I think that technique is a natural occuring talent otherwise there would be more than 1 Messi and 1 Ronaldo in this world.

The thing that elevates these guys is their exceptional technique.

I can guarantee that if you go to to the same Argentine slum that Messi was born in, and pick another 10 dwarves from an early age and take then to la masia, you will not be able to replicate Messi.

You can practice and train for the next 100 years and still never get there.

Then you get the likes of JayJay that grew up playing football on the streets and selling oranges, with the ability to drimble a whole team from back to front and back.

I think that Europe and South America have higher distribution of technically gifted players in a way that Africa simply doesn't have.

You are confusing technique and technical abilities which is a function of talent. I knew exactly what term dopejemi was referring to when he stated Black players have poor techniques and i understood what he meant.
Technically gifted refers to being extremely talented. "Technique" is a term used differently.
Few players can improve technique on their own without proper training like the very talented ones while some cannot or do not because they realize they don't need to. There a reason most blacks tend to end up trying to use their physicality as a advantage to dribble instead of close ball control. Some find it easier to closely control/move the ball at pace than others naturally.
Jay jay's dribbling a 1000 people was due more to talent or natural abilities and not him having a good technique( though he possesses a good one). You can might have very limited talents but still possess a good technique or you can be gifted and still be said to have a poor technique. Technique here ranges from simple things like the way a player passes the ball. Are goal keepers talented or do they have good technique? There are extremely talented/good goal keepers who have problems kicking/passing the ball. Now that's due to technique.

dopeJemi:
No arguments whatsoever, you just explained why most black players are less technical than whites, so I wasn't entirely wrong when I said that

Don't get me wrong, i've got nothing against my black folks, I didn't even limit it to just black players, Jones is one gidi gidi player that I dislike, in fact, I dislike 95percent of England players, Beckham remains my favourite

You wouldn't call someone who thinks the white the white suck at basket ball racist, would you?

Alright, I understand you.

No, because it's actually true. They currently suck at it just like running. The white folks in the US have access to standard facilities but they don't end up good basketball players because the natural conditions like athleticism, talent etc just more often favor the black folks in basketball and training isn't enough to compensate for that. About 60 years ago when there segregation existed and Jim crow laws were the order of the day in the US, NBA was heavily dominated by white players unlike today and you can't have said now or then that those white basketball players were terrible. I hope you get my point.

dopeJemi:
My statement is not something that should be blown outta proportion

Black players are less technical than white players, I lie? Only a few are technically gifted, that's why i'm a big fan of martial, became a fan of pogba after his first appearance for the senior Team, i'm not a fan of vidal and that guy that looks like him at roma

Get where i'm driving at

Technique is not a form of natural ability like talent. It's acquired from proper training and can be improved upon relatively until certain ages. Most black players who possess poor technique did not have the proper football training required at a young age especially black players brought up in sub-saharan Africa where the quality of football in their respective countries' leagues/academies is quite low. By the time they arrive in Europe as professional footballers, they're already old and it's quite difficult to improve on technique at those ages than when they were younger. It has absolutely nothing do with the color of their skin.. If a white player was brought up in those conditions which those guys experience, they'd possess poor technique similar to those black guys and they'll even end up worse footballers because they wouldn't have the physicality, strength or endurance most black folks naturally possess. Smalling for example spent most of his time in lower football leagues in England when he was a young footballer, and that's how he ended up with such average technique today and it's quite difficult or him to improve on it.

Martial is black and has good technique because he wasn't brought up in Africa and he didn't learn his football in the slums. He was trained well at one of the best footballing academies in France; Lyon's before his move to Monaco. He certainly would not possess the kind of technique he has now if he spent time learning most of his football in Gambia for example.

I repeat technique has nothing to do with the color of skin; Talents are gifted but not technique. They are acquired and it's time you understood this.

dopeJemi:
I'm dead serious

That's ridiculously racist and backward thinking.

dopeJemi:
We are beginning to scout too many ugly black players and I don't like it


Enough of the black players abeg, I need some fresh white guys in the team

Is this a joke or what?

chrisley024:
Don't forget the Russians were also poor

True but England failed to take advantage. The Russians even had an injury crisis before the match and it's a travesty that England couldn't beat them.

TRendlona:
As at 2009 till date we've been the biggest club in d world
Or u think sei e dey easy to win treble 2 times?? Or winning sextuple
Somthing madrid has never won in their history even b4 lord luggard came to colonize Nigeria.

See mumu
When you won the treble in 2009, you guys had just 3 CLs while Madrid had 9, Madrid still had more league titles than you guys. So Madrid was still the most successful club in the world then. United still had the biggest fan base and was the richest club or the biggest in terms of financial value in the world, Madrid was even 2nd.
so how was Barcelona the biggest club in the world then?

In 2015 when you guys won the treble again, Barcelona had 5 CLs while Madrid had 10. Madrid still had more league titles than you guys, and were also bigger financially. Madrid was still the most successful club in the world in 2015 and were still bigger than Barcelona.

I know how it feels playing catching up every time such that even in your finest moments of glory Barcelona still remains behind Madrid (I remember as a fan when United were still playing catch up to Liverpool). It's awful but it's reality. Barcelona is not the biggest and hasn't been the biggest.

Like I said, enjoying so much success over the last 10 years has gotten into head of most of you Barcelona folks here and made you guys so arrogant and that's why you guys forget your place. I would be here to remind you guys the next time someone tries silly sh1t like that.

Adelana1 i hope you can now see how good the other criteria proposed by other folks are. I'm not gonna claim the criteria i used was perfect but it's far better than anything anyone on this thread has been able to come up with, or would ever come up with.
See this silly one for example

The CL is the main big competition

All time Liverpool, Barca and Bayern are mates and Man Utd is below

That means Aston Villa or Nottingham forest or Celtic or PSV are definitely bigger than Arsenal.

Liverpool and Ajax are bigger than United. Really?

Cool logic.

My work is done here and I think I've had enough for tonight.

Dadehmola:
The argument isnt a Barca vs Man utd thingy - your understanding of number 2 is the crux of the matter here...

In this context of your No2 , success isnt like Uefa rankings where the performance of a team over a stipulated period is periodically used as a rank metric - Your records/ Trophy haul (even if it from 1435 B.C) matters the most. why do yo think Mn utd had to win an unprecedented 19th Epl title in order to overtake liverpool as the most successful club in England (on a domestic level ofcourse), despite the fact that Liverpool hadnt won a league title in about 20 years while Man utd won it 11 times in that same period?

G.B.R1's point is that Barca have to equal Madrid's UCl/league title haul before a proper debate can take place - the success recorded by your club in the last 10 years hasnt been enough to do so!

You are trying too hard to explain bro but it's obvious you are flogging a dead horse. These guys are like goats; they won't even listen or try to understand.
Just observe that one trying to change his "bone of contention" when he was the one who actually started the debate with this.

[img]http://cs627118.vk.me/v627118248/1e90f/D8GShs3WTuw.jpg[/img] [img]http://cs627118.vk.me/v627118248/1e905/C08qBTqWuzI.jpg[/img]

I wasn't even the one that came up with the criteria used, it was actually a Barcelona fan and i still those their indices to flog them on their thread. When it's obvious they have lost the initial argument and they can't go on, they resort to inventing new debates, arguing irrelevant points and telling of lies or trying to twist or manipulate my statements. That's the entirety of the last few pages.