₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Why can't the masqueraders enter churches merrily in a way without sin?
For your information, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a JEALOUS {Deuteronomy 6:15} anything offered to idols is detestable to Him! 1Corinthians 10:20-21
So if you don't want to offend Him follow the custom of those He commended for their steadfastness {Romans 15:4;1 Corinthians 10:11} He didn't just referred to Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for nothing Sir those people pleased Him well, so imitate their FAITH!

How is celebrating your own birthday and making merry in a holy way an offering to idols? How does it involve Masquerades?
You haven't given me a scripture that forbids you from celebrating your birthday.

MaxInDHouse:
That's where you're getting it all wrong my friend!

How many countries have those you mentioned gotten and how many race have they taken their peace making?

It's like you're not following the thread from the beginning. Had it been that Jehovah's Witnesses never gone throughout the earth and subdued people from all races i will say "those accepting the teaching are morOns either from some stupid race" but this is an organization that has captured people from all races!

My friend, in my own village there are religionsts that doesn't believe in killing as well but people believe they're insanes, but in this case this group conquered people from all races! Revelations 6:1-2

What have Jehovah witness subdued? Buddhism is growing fast in the west, and many people know about it. It was around 500 years before Jesus, all the religions existed way before Jesus and Jehovah witnesses. How many Jehovah Witnesses do we have in the world?

Janosky:
Have you been following this thread for long?
Bros, Genesis 40:20 and Matthew 14:6 is king Pharaoh and king Herod servants of the true God?

Bros , Genesis 40:20 and Matthew 14:6 is part of the reason why 2 Corinthian6:14,Galatians 4:8-11 , Ecclesiastes 7:1,Romans 15:4 & 2Tim3:16-17 dey your Bible .



Please go and learn

I don't understand, none of the scriptures you quoted forbids you from celebrating your own birthday. Why can't you celebrate your birthday in your own way, being merry in the way of Jehovah without sin.

Janosky:
Their god is their belly.
Rice and chicken they feast on is of prime importance than sticking to the holy Scriptures.
They subtly expose their despise of the holy Scriptures & DECEIVE themselves.

Why do you need the bible to tell you whether to celebrate birthdays or not? Isn't birthday suppossed to be a thing of choice or merriment? Are you saying God is so concerned about such things?

MaxInDHouse:
Then how come only one religious group succeeded while all other groups both religious and none religious failed?

Who told you only one religous group succeeded? How many religous group do you think there are in this world? Do you know about Jainism ( where even killing an ant is against the religous laws)? or do you know about Buddhism, the Buddhist peaceful monks and the 8 fold path to enlightenment of the Buddha? or even Taoism? All of these are very peaceful religons to their core with a history of so many peaceful adherents.

MaxInDHouse:
Our own children don't like violence because we don't TEACH them rather they're peacemakers everywhere they go just as the book says! Matthew 5:9

That is the purpose of Religion, to tame some of these dangerous human instincts.

MaxInDHouse:
They are beasts so they don't have the intellect to sit on a round table and resolve issues amicably like intelligent creatures. If man knows how to settle issues involving two of his own children so that they don't fight to see each other die then nothing stops them from resolving issues that they are certain will lead to death of many, leaving many women as widows and children as orphans.
If someone should walk up to you to tell you that you're going to die and your wife will become a widow and your children orphans won't you think of the smartest way out of such dreadful prediction?
So what stops humans (intelligent creatures) from settling issues amicably? SPIRITS!

Humans are intelligent but they are led by selfishness, competition, greed. It is part of the human instinct. Humans love violence and competition, it is the reason why as kids most boys enjoy games like motar kombat and why the Roman Empire loved watching the gladiators. It's simply inward animalistic instinct. Humans like animals can protect their families but then cause the death of many when selfishness come into play.

MaxInDHouse:
You've not answered my question no wonder you cunningly edited the post.
What exactly could make country A (multitude) just wake up one day to think of going to war against country B if not madness, abeg Spirit dey involve!

Humans have always loved domination and violence. Humans also have some animalistic instincts which are tamed by laws and religons/philosophies. Do spirits also make Gorillas kill one another when they do?

The story of Job is just a story. We cannot say if it was historical or not, but the author was simply grasping with the problem of evil. If God is in control, why does he permit evil or even cause it through his messenger Satan? The Author concluded in the end that no one can question God and his ways.

Image123:

I have never seen where he claimed such about Jesus, he only advocates that everyone should follow the teachings of christ, at least from what I've seen from his writings so far.

Image123:
Another Jesus, the one that doesn't count the Bible as truth or important, the one that sleeps with Mary and forgets himself until responsible Judas drums sense into him.

Did he claim the bolded?

Image123:
Facepalm for you really, a cursory glance through his posts should show you that he does not believe in Jesus or the Bible. A careful look will produce the same result, just that it is so glaring. Well, maybe because i've known him for a while. Okay, to spare you the work, read his posts on this page and look for just 3 christians you know who share his weird koboko thoughts.

I am confused, if not the Jesus of the bible ( the 4 gospels), then which Jesus does he believe in?

[quote author=sonmvayina post=100585341]

Did God ever asked any one to believe in another man other than God himself?
Will God ever share his glory with any other person or thing ?

To believe in Jesus is just like saying to believe that Prophet Jeremiah was a true prophet and to heed his warnings.

Did any prophet ever asked anybody to believe in the death of the messiah as against obeying Gods commandments?

No, and believing in the death of the messaiah is not as important as repentance ( Acts 3) and the Kingdom of God. The death of the messaiah is part of christian message of course, but believing in it is not what Jesus came to teach majorly.

There is so many conflict between what God commanded in the jewish bible and the christian bible.

Why so?

I would have taken you seriously if you actually quote the Christian Bible, but you hardly quote the Christian bible.

1Sharon:
He believes in jesus

I wonder what belief in Jesus mean to some Christians. I used to think if someone takes the teachings of Jesus seriously, then he believes in Jesus.

Ihedinobi3:
I'm breaking my rule for once. Whenever I leave a conversation, I endeavor to stay out of it no matter what.

The difficulty is not with your questions. I already answered them in the post you responded to with them.

I don't care what you believe, so I don't plan to waste my time engaging it. I only engaged you because you lied that there is no place in the Gospels where the Bible says that Jesus came to die for the sins of the world.

I don't care that you believe the lies that you do. That is your business. I will help anyone learn the Gospel if they want, and I pray that God turn the unbelieving around, but I don't pretend to any ability to make people like you amenable to the truth. So I refuse to invest myself emotionally in your attitude to the truth.

This whole business of arguing to prove that you know the Bible better than Christians is not my cup of tea. You want to do it? Go right ahead. It is highly unlikely that you have read the Bible as much as I have or that you have devoted as much of your life to understanding it as I have. You are unlikely to surprise me in any challenges or subterfuge you attempt to undermine my faith. I have been through the grinder in my spiritual walk. You are hardly close to finding difficult questions to trouble me with.

Salvation is the most primary truth in the Scriptures. Even an unbeliever can understand the Gospel if they wish to be saved. It's not even remotely confusing. If you wanted to ask difficult questions, you should have tried Eschatology.

But you didn't answer me, wasn't trying to win an arguement. Just asking questions.

Ihedinobi3:
I have no interest in your questions since they ignore what you are responding to. If you want answers to your questions, read the post again.

For now, I must leave the conversation. I already told you to hold to what you believe or don't believe if you like. It's your right and responsibility, not mine. There is no benefit in engaging you any further. You have no interest in my faith. And I have no interest in your rejection of the Gospel.

For what it is worth, I wish you cheer in your life.

Lol, I know they are difficult questions, but I assure you they are genuine questions and I have never met a Christian who understood these things, they just preach saying: Accept that jesus died for your sins and you are saved. They call this the gospel.

However when you read the books of the gospels, jesus speaks more about the kingdom of God and tells stories about it.

As for the problem of sin, jesus already gave us the solution- Repent and also forgive others who trespass against you, then God would forgive you. Even in Acts 3 ( the first preaching of the gospel after christ), peter only tells them to repent and be baptized, no where in that sermon do we see reference to a blood sacrifice for sin. Think about it, if believing in blood sacrifice to God for sin was the core of the gospel, peter under the influence of the spirit would miss no opportunity to sing it aloud in the first ever teaching of the gospel after the resurrection.

Ihedinobi3

As I said, I don't know anything that makes it wrong for one person to buy another person's debts and pay them, do you? If you do, why don't you share it here?

As a judge, when you are in court and you have to condemn a criminal, then you rather sentenced your innocent son to death in place of the criminal, how does this work? is that justice? or can you give a better analogy to explain your position?

If Jesus took responsibility for all the sins of such a person, then that person's sins have been completely answered for. If such a person accepts this Sacrifice made in his behalf, then he is free to come back into God's embrace as God's child.

So all a murderer or rapist have to do is accept that someone took his/her place and paid the penalty? If they do, how does this solve the problem of sin?

What would be unfair would be to punish such a person again after Jesus already suffered his punishment.

Take a murderer for instance who escapes the law and human courts, then believes in Jesus blood sacrifice, are you saying the murderer would never suffer the penalty both from God and men but rather enjoy long life, prosperity on earth, then go to heaven? If that is your premise, then tell me how is that justice to the family of the murdered or to the one who was raped?

If, however, you are raising the issue of temporal justice, then God's forgiveness of sin does not absolve anyone of responsibility for their crimes here on earth. A murderer will still be executed under the law here on earth, but he will not be denied eternity with God if he became a believer in Jesus Christ and remained one until death.

What about a murderer who could get away with it? For example an Emperor who is answerable to no one, committing so many crimes, and then accepted the sacrifice of jesus on his dying bed?

Ihedinobi3:
What a weird question! That you would even think that an animal can stand in for a human being is ridiculous in the extreme. It shows just how poor your understanding of the dynamics at play is.

It is human beings who sin against God. Therefore, it is a human being who must answer to God for them. This is the whole gist of Hebrews 2:14-17!

Do you even know what Christians believe and teach? Have you even heard the Gospel? Like, ever?!

So humans sinned against God, then an innocent human took the fall? how is that just?
Also even at that, how does this death of jesus take away all the sins? how does it solve the problems?

Ihedinobi3:
Please feel free to believe whatever you want. It is your right and responsibility to choose what you will believe.

All I have said is that I don't agree with you. I think that anyone who actually reads the Bible will instantly see that you are desperately wrong.

We are free to believe what we want, but I don't understand. How does death on a cross forgive or take away sin?

Ihedinobi3:
As incomplete as your discussion of the Passover Lamb is, the sacrificial lambs in the Law were not all Passover Lambs. When Jesus was called the Lamb of God, the qualification attached was "that takes away the sins of the world." Whether you understand how this applies to the Passover Lamb or not (as it appears that you don't), that makes clear that Jesus came to die just as the lambs of sacrifice in the Law died and for the sins of all mankind.

This is the most obvious truth in the Bible. Nothing else the Bible has to say gets away from this. You have absolutely no chance of making sense of the Bible if you cannot accept this fundamental truth.

These things are just symbols. God is not interested in sacrifice, whether animal or human. The sacrifices of God are a contrite heart and spirit. God desires mercy not sacrifice.

Jesus already told us what to do when we sin, all we have to do is to turn a new leave and to forgive those who sinned against us as well. Jesus never said you should believe in his blood sacrifice to have your sins forgiven.

The idea of taking away the sins of the world has to do with being a scapegoat for community sin or what I call collective sin, it is not about individual sin. Jesus has taken that away and he himself said his death is for the forgiveness of sins and reconciliation to God. Collective sin led them to bondage and slavery, even the slavery and suffering of the innocent. Jesus is the lamb or scapegoat that came to take away this particular type of sin.

The lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53) does not mean God is punishing an innocent person for wicked people else that would also contradict the book of Ezekiel, rather it just means these things happened and God did not prevent it, because the Israelites of the old testament never believed in Satan as God's major antagonist, rather they believed God controlled everything, both good and evil. So to them, if God allowed his innocent son to die without doing anything, then it means God did it. While I agree with Isaiah that God allowed it, it doesn't mean God was pleased with his son dying on a cross, nor was it a human sacrifice to God for sin.

ogtechinc:
Wow.... So we should just celebrate whatever comes our way, abi?

It's all about personal choice whether to celebrate anything or not as long as you don't sin, it doesn't make you more or less of a child of God.

When the bible says the world, it doesn't always mean the entire world. It simply meant the world as they knew it in those days. It was more or less a local flood, and the evidence for a major local flood is good.

sonmvayina:
The story of Noah was borrowed from the babylonian epics who borrowed it from the summerians. The jews incorperated it into their belief system or religion(judaism).

It is just meant to teach us the fact that God creates and God destroys....and God replenishes..

Yimu

sonmvayina:
But that is the general consensus..God sent his son to die, because man commits sin..
I dont see any where it says so in the old testament. I really dont know where the romans/greeks got the idea from.

The jewish idea is that there is only one power or God in the universe, who was responsible for both good and evil. Isaiah 45:1-7..The jews just like everyone understands the concept of the singularity of a dual concept. I really dont know why the romans elevated the devil to a dual opposite of God. Making him independent and having a will of his own outside the will of God. I find this a big insult..

I guess when christianity is really traced, the deceiver will really be at the centre of it...(for those who want further research, Inanna is the deceiver).

But that is not what the Christian bible says. Jesus already told us that if someone sins and needs God's forgiveness, all he has to do is to forgive those who offends him/her and then repent. The only place Jesus spoke of a sacrifice for sin was with respect to the Holy Communion as a new passover meal to commemorate his death. In celebrating the passover, the disciples were to feel positive about his death as the sign for the ushering in of a new covenant and the forgiveness of sins. It is more in relation to the passover story involving deliverance of Isreal.

The jewish Idea in the first century was not a single idea. Besides there was no Judaism ( as a religon) in the first century. There were various sects such as the Pharisees, Saducees, Essens, Zealots, and they all had varying beliefs. There were the Apocryphals, book of Enoch , and several jewish books that borrowed from Persian and Babylonian religions such as Zoorastianism and the likes. Zoorastians ( not sure I spelt that right) believed in dualism with stuff like Satan and Hellfire. These concepts were later used to interprete and translate the Christian bible, but the jesus of the first century shared almost similar beliefs or close beliefs to that of the Essens and Pharisees.

eomajeh:
Question: What is Easter

Me: according to what i've heard, someone/ something/ some force somewhere called god felt humans have offended him/her/it so greatly, so he gave them his son to kill so that he/ she/ it will forgive them.

An interesting story!!!

You heard wrong.

Ihedinobi3:
You want to talk about meanings? Interesting. Isn't that what everybody wants to do? What the Bible says on its surface is never what it means for people like you.

When the Lord Jesus says that He is giving His life as a ransom for many, He doesn't mean that He is?

When John the Baptist calls Him the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world, we are not to understand that in the same sense as the Lamb that is killed as a sacrifice for sins.

When we are told that He would die for the nation of Israel, it is not to be understood as a sacrifice for the sins of Israel too?

I don't think there would be any point at all in listening to anyone who wants to talk about what a thing means when the thing is as clear as daylight.

You are getting many things wrong.

Jesus is compared to the passover lamb taking away sin because it was believed that the passover lamb brought great deliverance and victory to Isreal. What the new testament authors argued for is that those were symbols pointing to the true hero who would be led like a lamb to the slaughter. He is dying to take away the guilt of his people in the eyes of the jews who gave him up to the Romans.

He was their scapegoat just thesame way the lamb was the scapegoat to the Angel of death threatening the birth of the new nation, so also jesus offered himself as the ransom to the Romans threatening the birth of the new jesus movement.

The jewish religious leaders feared that the Romans would come into the city and destroy the nation because of the many followers of Jesus who shouted Hosannah when he rode on a donkey declaring him king of the jews. The pharisees in order to protect the people reasoned that it was better to give jesus up ( whom they hated) and prevent investigation by the Romans that could have led to the slaughter of many.
Jesus in this way gave himself up as a ransom to the Romans for the life of his disciples and his new movement and he became the lamb that was slain for the birth of a new nation.

The people accused him of many sins, putting on their scapegoat the sins of all Isreal and the sins of the world, he became a transgressor even though he was innocent. Paul and the later day christian authors extended the meaning of this sacrificial death for the jesus followers in Isreal, to the entire world and rightly so because if Jesus did not die, there would have been no great spread of the gospel by the disciples, and in essence no kingdom of God on earth.

Jman24:
I know what you are running away from
But How can you lay your life for someone and not be a sacrifice especially when that death is allegedly beneficial to that person?

Unless you are saying that death of biblical Jesus isn't beneficial to you. Then it's not a sacrifice

Sacrifice as in a faithful solider laying down his life freely (by himself) for his nation out of love, is different from saying sacrifice on an alter or a sort of sacrifice for sin to appease God's wrath. I am arguing against the latter, while I believe Jesus sacrifice was the former.

Ihedinobi3:
Hi there.

What a wild claim you just made!

28 "...just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
Matthew 20:28 (NKJV)

51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation...
John 11:51 (NKJV)

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Jn 10:11 — Jn 10:18 (NKJV)

Even if we didn't have such direct quotes, the Gospels are rich with the story of how God sent His Son to come and die for our sins so that we can be saved. I can't imagine how anyone could even dream of saying what you said.

Oh my God, you are even quoting my favourite Jesus sayings from the gospels. None of these quotes mean what you think they mean.

Matthew 20v28 does not say that jesus came to be a human sacrifice bearing our sins to God. It says he came to be a ransom for many. What does ransom for many mean? What is the ransom being paid here and to whom?

John 11v51, what does it mean to die for the nation?

Again John 10 is simply saying he would lay his life down for his followers. How does this equate to a blood sacrifice for sin?

In4matic:
Your position above is the classic reason Christians are so far behind in the journey of their soul.

Seeking a fall guy to hinge all their failing on.

Since you are a closed book, i see no need to go ahead.
When you are ready, you'll be taught.

For the silent reader, look at the above quote on sacrifice, How does it sound, an innocent, ignorant animal you bought in the market will be made to carry your sins...

Then again did Jesus death qualify as a sacrifice in Jewish standards?

A sacrifice must be
-A kosher animal, not a pig, or camel, or human
-without spot or wrinkle
-offered by a priest who is ceremonially in a pure state
- On an alter of God
- altar must be made of 12 Uncut stones

I ask the descerning mind, do you believe the death of Jesus hung by pagan Roman soldiers in a place of unclean skulls qualify as a sacrifice?

Crucifixion was reserved for only those seen as enemies of Rome.

Think on this

I wonder where they get this sacrifice thing from. What I understand is that a lamb was slain on passover and the Israelites were delivered. This is symbolic and why Jesus' disciples believed he was the lamb of God who ushered in deliverance and a new covenant by his death.

No where in the gospels do we read that jesus would be offered as a human sacrifice to God carrying all our sins.

Jman 24

Being born into something doesn't mean it was your making...

That is the point, Paul is not saying it was your making, just because he said all have sinned. In the book of Hebrews, the Author says Abraham paid tithe to Melchizediek and the Author argues that because of that, his descendants who were in his loins have also paid tithe. In your Ges 101 reasoning, would that also mean the isrealites truly paid tithe literally the moment Abraham paid tithe or it simply means because their Ancestor paid tithes they are no longer required?
You have to read the bible in context and with your reasoning, it is not GES 101. It is even a translation in the first place.

"All have sinned" is an act of which an innocent neonate is unaware of ..
The right connotation still remains.. "Adam sinned and have passed on that nature...."

The right connotation from you or the jews? so why does the surrounding passage say in Adam all die? Doesn't that support what I wrote? Because of Adam's sin, a baby is already condemned by sin. That is the point, he is not saying a baby has sinned, because it is stupid to say a baby has committed sin, and that is impossible. Always learn to address the points of a post you are replying to.

Eg. The lady contracted HIV through sexual intercourse (an act)
The child got the HIV from mother (by Providence, inheritance, transmission etc)

What are you saying for God's sake? Before you jump into the arguement further, ask yourself what point was Paul trying to make? was he trying to say a baby has sinned or that we are all guilty because of Adam's sin. Bible is not GES 101, it was not written in English, you read it by comparing the context, tradition and background of the author, other writings, and using your head.

Jman24:
Being born into something doesn't mean it was your making...

"All have sinned" is an act of which an innocent neonate is unaware of ..
The right connotation still remains.. "Adam sinned and have passed on that nature...."

Eg. The lady contracted HIV through sexual intercourse (an act)
The child got the HIV from mother (by Providence, inheritance, transmission etc)

GES 101

Try to read before replying. This is not about English because even Paul knows it makes no sense to say that a baby has committed sin. Christians do not interprete it this way, so I wonder why your logic should work this way. I have given you the surrounding context of the passage, all you have done is tell me about English. So what does Paul mean by: In Adam all die? You have not addressed the context of the passage I gave you, but you just repeat thesame thing over and over again.

live4dgospel:
Though everyday they ceaselessly try to wash away their sins, their sins are not washed, for the sins that they try to wash by giving prayers of repentance are not such light sins. Every sin is followed by God’s fearful judgment.

As such, those who try to wash away their sins with their own prayers of repentance, instead of washing them by believing in the gospel of the water and the Spirit, will experience and realize that not even a penny’s worth of their sins is washed away. Could we wash away our sins by giving such prayers of repentance everyday? Even if we ourselves believe that we have washed away our sins with our prayers of repentance, these sins actually still remain in their entirety.

Only those who have bathed their whole bodies by believing in the gospel of the water and the Spirit are qualified to wash their feet as they live their lives, and only they are also clothed in the grace that enables them to wash away their sins with faith everyday and thereby keep their cleanness forever.

By being baptized, Jesus took upon all our actual sins once for all. We therefore believe that with His baptism, Jesus also took upon all the sins that we commit from our insufficiencies as we live our lives, and that He bore all their condemnation as well. Jesus told us, in other words, that there must be no such a thing as stumbling or dying from falling into our own weaknesses.

Learn more about this beautiful gospel of the water and the Spirit by going to www.bjnewlife.org

The prescription jesus gave for sin was not by washing with water and spirit. What Jesus said was that If you forgive others their sins against you, God would also forgive you your sins.
Also the first message after the resurrection ( in Acts 3) was that you repent and then be baptized. Baptism is just a sign of repentance, dying and rising, but God requires that if you want to be forgiven, just forgive others.