₦airaland Forum

hoopernikao:
Bro, leave daddy GO, or whatever you call it. I am speaking about the scriptures, lets face that.

What does poimaino mean if not shepherd. Why skimming by the wall and avoiding to be clear on Peter's responsibility.

He was to shepherd others. That is where you can find the word Feed.

Deacons werent asked to shepherd. Deacon diakoneō is to serve not to rule. Shepherd poimēn are to RULE.

The moment you twist the usage of the word shepherd, you could likewise use the same everywhere it is used for God or Jesus in the Bible, that they are caretakers too but not Shepherd.

A shepherd is to rule, Peter was given that authority.

My man, I am not an expert in Greek terminology, so I cannot argue that with you. What I can argue however, is that Jesus made it clear that he is the owner of his sheep to correspond with the prophecy in Ezekiel where there is only one shepherd. It is his flock and Peter could not have been appointed as a second shepherd. No matter the words used, Peter was merely a. caretaker for his master. For jesus, a leader is actually a servant given to service, so even if you say the Greek word there means to lead the sheep, it would still mean to serve the sheep. Deacons were also elected as well to serve. It was not meant to be an organisation of heirarchy but of servants serving each other. There is no true leader like in the world system in that sense, only elected servants feeding others. Sheep feeding Sheep, and so on.

hoopernikao:
@GeneralDae
@Kobojunkie

Explain what "Feed" (poimaino, bosko) mean. Those are exact Jesus words.

Jesus was Jewish, he was speaking to Jews also. You cant neglect their culture and be interpreting scriptures like a Nigeria, African or Englishman.

All through the bible and Jewish culture, What is the person who feeds the lamb called?
Their society mostly have a culture of agrarian and pastoral, No Jew will see the phrase "feed the lamb", and wont understand immediately that you are now to shepherd.

You will need to stop reading Bible with a 20th century mind.
The moment Jesus told Peter to "Feed", Peter knows the responsibility to shepherd the flock is now committed to him. And you saw that all through the early church practices.

I already agreed that Peter was to teach or preach the gospel to the sheep and to take care of them like a servant of Jesus as his representative. Even Deacons were elected in Acts to take care of certain needs of the people. However, we do not see the hierarchy or organisation like in many churches of today. Peter was not appointed as a Shepherd, he was appointed as a Caretaker.
So many of the Daddy GO's and Pastors, Apostles, Bishops, etc of today are like lords in their congregations and this was not what Jesus commanded Peter. Peter, James, and John sought to be the greatest, but Jesus taught them that they must become the least of all if they want to be the greatest.

hoopernikao:
Focus on the text of Jesus I gave you in John 21:15-17.

I didn't write it, it's the scriptures. Jesus told Peter to rule, to shepherd to lord over his lambs.

You should be the one to explain if Jesus is lying or contradicting himself, or better still you will adjust your knowledge of the scriptures.

Feed implies to rule, the lord, to shepherd. What other explanation do you need.

Jesus telling Peter to feed his sheep, simply means he should teach them the word of God and care for them which Peter did in the book of Acts, but Peter was never called a Pastor or Bishop or GO by the early church in the book of Acts simply for teaching the gospel.
Jesus is the only Shephered of his sheep, he appointed Peter as caretaker and a rock to build his Church, but that doesn't translate to the church bureaucracy we find in the epistles of Paul. The truth is that Jesus was against the formation of Heirarchy among his followers.

sotall

If you are a genuine Christian with the spirit of God working in you, you need no soothsayer to know that the thief that believed in Jesus right there on the cross has eternal life from Jesus from that singular act he displayed.

The bible deliberately used the word paradise rather than Heaven. Tell me something, after Jesus died did he go to heaven to be with God immediately? Paradise is a temporary place in the grave, only that it is not hades to the spirits there in this instance, it is bliss. The spirits in hades and or paradise still have a lot to learn about the kingdom of God.

Remember the parable of the labourers, when the man paid all workers same amount. Those that have been working since morning collected same amount with those that just started working?

You are conflating things here, that passage was about the gentiles and sinners on earth who did not know God but were finally accepted into the kingdom of God as belonging to the Heritage of Isreal. The pharisees would not imagine such because the jews have been the heirs of the kingdom. However, this parable is not saying that gentiles wouldn't be kept temporarily in the grave to be refined from their sins according to their works on earth even though they have been accepted by God.
Ask yourself this question, our forefathers who never heard of jesus, how would God judge them? Of course they would also be kept temporarily in the grave after death. They would be judged in the grave temporarily according to their conscience and works until the resurrection, which is the final judgement.

And Jesus Christ said thats how the kingdom of God is

I agree, but the passage is about God accepting latecomers which I already agreed to, the issue is how would God judge them? They are accepted but they stay in paradise and would have to grow.

Its God's way and it is different from our ways.

God's ways are always consistent with his laws and they are always fair. Thesame way God would not abandon our forefathers who never heard of christ but would give them a second chance.
After death comes judgement, but why do you assume that God's judgement is a one off thing? I believe the sinful souls that turn to God in repentance at death escape condemnation but are still being refined by God in Holy fire according to the weight of their sins, while others are kept in paradise but not in Abraham's bosom yet until they get to that level.

sotall:
This arguement came from talking about a person who is on their death bed accepting Christ.

Now how does a person who is about to die do works to meet this your belief of works being a requirement for being saved?

Now you are talking about someone who still have earthly life to live. That's a different scenario.
In that case, after accepting and believing in Christ, you have to continue living your life according to his teaching. You cant say you believe and accept Jesus and you have life and you are continuing in sin.

But that's not the case with someone who is about to die.

Someone who is about to die, who was not a willful sinner waiting for the last moment to accept christ but only genuinely recognised him by showing remorse for their sins and repenting from the heart only when it was too late, would go to Paradise at death. However, we do not know how God would judge them. The bible only tells us that they go to paradise, which is a temporary place and certainly not Heaven. It is possible that these spirits are kept in this section of the grave (without going to God immediately) in order to pay for their sins and be refined for the sins committed so they can be eligible to join the resurrection. God does not overlook sinful deeds but he is merciful.
It is possible that the grave is divided into paradise and hades (my theory), and Jesus went to both sections after death. He went to preach to the spirits in hades but first he went to paradise that day with the thief. God definitely has a plan for all these things and it's not black and white like you think.

sotall:
I am not here to argue religion with you. Hence I will only address questions which are in line with the initial post you are responding to.

There is no where I said physical death was the ultimate punishment for sin. Remove the word physical and you are on point. Death is the punishment for sin.

The first is the physical death which everyone of us will taste if Jesus doesn't come now. I have explained to you why we all will die a physical death ( Adam's sin). Either a human dies from getting old or dies from other causes, death is death.

Now the second death will come after Jesus Christ's judgement.

What will christ's judgement be all about?

First those who have recieved, accepted and believed him while they were still alive will be automatically saved irrespective of their deeds ( and punishment on earth )before they received him .

Those who didnt recieve him before their physical death are condemned already. It doesn't matter their deeds.
They are already condemned for Adam's sin before they were born. No need talking of what they did after growing older.

My point remain: The purpose of receiving christ is to obey his teachings. The Judgement at the end of the age is based on how well we obeyed christ. It is according to our deeds, it is not merely about believing only. This is what Matthew 25v31-46 speaks about. No where in that passage do you see those people being judged for not believing that christ died for their sins or stuff like that, they are judged on how well they obeyed the teachings of christ to show love.

sotall:
You are arguing for arguing sake.

Right from the the time Adam committed sin, all humans born from sex lost eternal life. Man dying when he gets old is as a result of sin, likewise all sickness and disease also came as a result of that sin.

So the reason we still die (physical death)is because of that sin by Adam.


That's what Christ came to correct so that we can gain back what Adam lost i.e eternal life.


Now until Christ's second coming, both the righteous and sinners that have died will remain where they are. It's when he comes there will be a resurrection and then judgement.

So stop asking why righteous people still die.

Also I want you to understand that even if a man doesn't commit any sin at the moment but fails to receive Jesus and acknowledge his sacrifice for man, he is condemned.

That's the point you need to get. Getting eternal life through Jesus is all about accepting and believing him and is not about your righteousness.

If you are righteous without Christ, you are condemned.

You are not dealing with my points, you are just giving me same old theology in mainstream christianity and all you heard from your Pastor.

The bible said all men shall be judged according to their deeds, it never says they are judged solely for not receiving christ. Prove to me otherwise. Besides to receive christ is to obey his teachings. Matthew 25v31-46 tells us how God judged the goats who were separated from the sheep, they went to Hellfire for not showing love, not on whether they received christ or not. Besides, what does it even mean to receive christ if not to obey his teachings?

I am not asking why righteous people die, I am simply saying it contradicts your theory that physical death is the ultimate punishment for earthly crimes. If it is, then why does God still judge the souls of the dead for their earthly crimes according to the book of Revelation?

sotall

Just the way God's thought are higher than man's thought, so are his ways.

If men were God, a man who stole a meat from pot will recieve a lighter sentence than the one who killed. But with God all sins are equal. If you are found wanting in one, you are found wanting in all.

Do you have proof for this? that with God all sins are equal? and please don't tell me you got this from the book of James, James never said all sins are equal in terms of God's punishment. He was only telling us not to be Hypocrites when keeping the law or by selecting what law to keep or not to keep, since it was thesame God who gave them all. The bible never said all sins are equal in terms of punishment else there would be no need for God to judge all men according to their deeds.

All sins lead to death which is the ultimate price for sin.

But in this world all men die. If you read matthew 25v31-46, the people who want to hell in that passage were judged for not feeding the hungry and taking care of the helpless. They knew what to do and did not do it, and it was counted against them as sin. So in that sense people are still judged by God even after death for the wrongs they do in this world, because as we know even Pastors and Popes die.

Right there on the cross, the thief only told Jesus to remember him and he was with Christ in his kingdom just as Christ promised. Remember the man was still punished for his sins ( punishment by man) by getting killed by the soldiers. That death is the earthly punishment called Karma.

The thief on the cross was to be with jesus that day in paradise, the bible never said he is in heaven yet. Besides, Jesus later left paradise in the grave, went to preach to the spirits in hades and afterwards resurrected. Only after 40 days did he ascend to heaven, yet the thief remained in paradise for all we know. Read your bible.
If death is the only earthly punishment, then why does God still judge people when they die, for the sins they committed on earth? If they have already being judged by dying e.g the book of Revelation says they are judged according to their deeds.

If he hasn't receive Christ on that day, his soul will still be on the row of condemnation when Christ will come to judge the world.

Anybody can say prayer to receive christ but only works of righteousness demonstrates the faith of that person. The judgement in Matthew 25v31 against those who go to hell was not about receiving christ but was about works.

The second one is the punishment after Christ's judgement. Now remember that by default, every human born of woman doesn't have eternal life anymore after Adam fell in the garden. Now if Christ didn't come to make the sacrifice he did, all humans born from Adam are condemned to death according to the instructions God gave Adam in the beginning. ( the day you shall eat this fruit, that day ye shall surely die). So only those that recieve Christ and believe he died for their sins will escape condemnation. This is the second punishment and is different from the punishment one receives for committing sin on earth.

This makes no sense from the bible. The judgement of God according to book of revelation as well as Matthew 25 was based on the earthly deeds of men, not based on just receiving christ, so that contradicts your theory that death only was sufficient as punishment for earthly crimes.

Remember the bible describes two types of death...the physical death which is the one we see happening here. The second death is that which will come after Christ judgmen

But even the judgement of the second death is still based on our deeds according to the bible.

sotall

We are not saved because of righteousness but by faith in Jesus.

What is this faith in Jesus? Faith in Jesus is demonstrated by righteous works. Read Hebrews 11 to learn about the heroes of faith.

Yes one can ask for forgiveness on their death bed and be saved. The ultimate punishment for sin is death. There is no greater punishment

You are correct that the ultimate punishment of sin is death, but at the moment, in this imperfect world, it seems even the righteous die. Your point would be more valid if we see some people living forever already due to righteousness, but we still see all die, both the righteous and the wicked.

But I need you to understand that God knows the heart of all men. If a man plans in his heart to wait till he is on the stick bed or about to die before receiving Jesus, what if death comes suddenly upon him without him knowing? That's a foolish thing to do.

Yes but many people are willing to take the risk, and some people do take the risk.
There was a story of a Ghanian pastor who killed his wife late last year, the wife was shot on the spot and may have had no chance to ask for forgiveness of any sin whatsoever. The man was caught by the police and later judged for his crime, even if he would be sentenced to death, he still has all the time to ask for forgiveness. The lady may have been good all her life, but it is possible she made a mistake just before her death, while the man may have been a killer and fake pretentious pastor all his life.
According to your theory, this man would go to heaven forever, while his wife would be destined for everlasting hell. Don't you see how awkward this is? The teachings men attribute to God.

Remember when Jesus said we shouldn't fear that which can only destroy the body and not the soul but we should fear God that can destroy both the body and soul.

That simply means God is the ultimate judge, and those who escaped earthly punishment from earthly laws for their sins cannot escape the ultimate judge who would give unto every man according to his/her deeds.

It is being saved from the second punishment (punishment from God) of our sins that Christ came for not the earthly punishment. So if a man steals and he is convicted and sent to life imprisonment, he can receive christ and be saved while he serves his sentence.
He can even be freed if God decides to have compassion.

I agree that christ came to give sinners a second chance, but you make it seem like the punishment from God is punishment only for a different type of sin. You make it seem like the ultimate goal of salvation is to receive christ only (whatever that means).

sotall

Stop this belief!

Yes, there is a law of sowing and reaping but the grace and sacrifice of Jesus is superior to that law as far as heaven and earth is concerned.

Where do you get this from? Even Paul in the epistles tells you that whatever a man sows he would reap, even after Jesus had died. Even if we ignore Paul, where in the gospels did Jesus teach that his sacrifice is superior to the law of reaping and sowing ( a universal law)? Even Jesus tells us that if we want God to forgive us, we should forgive those who sin against us so that God would forgive us. You see that we have to do some things to earn God's forgiveness, and it is not about relying on the sacrifice or death of Jesus but on the will to forgive those who trespass against us. God also has conditions for the forgiveness of our sins, which are repentance and then forgiveness towards those who trespass against us. It is all about Karma, my man.

Now I want you to understand something. According to the bible a man that killed one million people and a man that told a lie committed the same thing called sin. No sin is greater than the other. It is we humans who sees one sin and rate it over the other.

Where again did you get this from? What bible are you reading for Heaven's sake? Even our common sense tells us that one who stole a piece of meat from his father's pot out of hunger cannot be compared to Bokoharam who kill people for fun. If you are correct, then why does Jesus say some people would be flogged stripes according to what they did? If all sins are thesame then what is the essence of God's Judgement, there would be no need to Judge men according to their deeds, but simply throw every sinner into hell? If God does not classify sin, then why does John say there is a sin that leads unto death? and why is Paul careful to warn us that the sin of fornication is also a sin against the body.
James does not tell us that all sins are thesame, he simply said we should not be hypocrites and we should keep God's laws to the full not neglecting one for another.

Now we also need to understand that earthly punishment for sins ends when a man dies. Most times this earthly punishment is from the government for those who committed crimes. Apart from this punishment, when a man dies the judgement will take place. If the man received Jesus and believed in his heart that Jesus died for his sins before he died on earth, then there is no punishment from God to him.

A man who can escape earthly punishment say for instance an Emperor who is a dictator of a powerful nation and cannot be punished by the law for his crimes, are you saying if he gives his life to christ just before his death, he becomes automatically saved?

eagleonearth:
there are exceptions. When one deliberately waits for the last minute, he will be disappointed but man who inadvertently lived an ungodly life can see the mercies of God in the last minute just like the thief beside Jesus at Calvary

The thief beside Jesus at Calvary was promised Paradise. He was with Jesus in Paradise that day, but Jesus did not remain in paradise forever, for after 3 days, he rose again from the dead and only 40 days later did he finally ascend to heaven according to the gospel stories. The man was shown mercy, that I agree with. The question here is, what does paradise mean? Is paradise a temporary resting place or the real kingdom of Heaven?

ojun50:
Na which bible you dey read

So where is the justice if one of the bandits who killed the Greenfeld students in Kaduna get caught by the police today, was sentenced to death by the court, and just before the execution, he asked God for forgiveness for all sins, then voila goes to heaven. Is that Justice to you? Isn't the God of all the earth also the God of Justice?

ChocolateWine:
This is the sole reason why the church has lost its value over the years, because even criminals & prostitutes can have faith and get saved instantly (according to your teaching).


A church were all atrocities are being committed and it is covered by so called faith and mercy.

Is that how Jesus brought the church to us or is that how the apostles lived the faith?

Have you not started to teach things to suit the ears of the masses? 2 Tim 4:3

How did the church respond towards cases of ungodliness in the church in Bible times? Do you see any of that today?

What is faith? Faith simple means believe in Jesus and God.

Doesn't the Bible show us that the demons also believe in Christ and still shudder? James 2:19

Unless you have another definition for your so called acclaimed faith.

You have also not responded to the part of the scripture James 2:26?

Thank you jarry. The preaching that one can just simply ask for forgiveness on their deathbed and they gain it all at that moment is a strange one to me.

Also I wonder what faith is, without works of righteousness to show for it.

sotall:
The truth is what it is despite it being like foolishness or smartness (according to you) in human reasoning.

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ which only requires faith or believing in him is a fact. The bible doesn't say you must have been a believer for a period of time before you can be saved.

Immediately you accept and believe Jesus and that he died for your sins, no matter the phase you are in life whether about to die or not, you are saved.

There is no other condition. If you have been believing there is another condition apart from this, you need another orientation.

My man, God is not mocked, whatever a man sows he would reap.

The preaching that one can ask for forgiveness at the last minute is dangerous. It is thesame bible that says whatever a man sows he would reap, so I believe there would still be a form of judgement by fire for total cleansing in the afterlife for such a sinner who repented at his/her deathbed.

Remember the person may have been a bandit, killing people and destroying families, then got arrested and sentenced to death. Just before the execution, he made sure to ask for forgiveness just to make heaven. God is not so foolish to grant such a person immediate heaven. Karma would still play it's role. Karma is a universal law set by God himself.

Religon has made humans including Nigerians conscious of sin against a certain Higher power beyond just themselves or the state. This is a good thing because I know that if I sleep with my neighbours wife, it would be a sin against God and against the golden rule, but left to the state alone, this isn't always a serious crime. So in this sense, religion has done it's part in controlling the very wayward and some of the most difficult humans have turned a new leaf and have been brought under its' power.

So many schools have been built in the name of religon.

Religon had brought bible reading to many villages and communities, which was a first step to becoming literate. The missionaries had to teach people to read, so they could read the bible.

Church and Mosques have been used for all sorts of evil in themselves, but they are a source of bond, fellowship, and community.

Many have developed great skills in churches such as playing instruments, leadership, public speaking, arts, etc.

doffman:
This is the truth:

Jesus taught people about God ; and he also taught them what to do to enter paradise. He never told then he will die and resurrect to spill the blood to save anybody.

And Jesus preaches anything different from other prophet like Moses taught.

That is the only truth if only you will understand.

Yeah you are right, but his main message still wasn't oneness of God, but rather Kingdom of God.

doffman:


This is your personal thinking not a fact.

Jesus does not have key to paradise. Stop your thinking and embrace the fact that Jesus cannot help you and also he can't help those those that come before him.

Jesus came only to preach same thing what other prophets have been preaching to their people about God oneness.

Only muslims speak this way. I agree Jesus came to preach, however oneness of God was already established in Isreal, so I don't think that was his main focus. He came to teach about the Kingdom of God rather.

[quote author=budaatum post=100678056]

God had a laugh? Must be a very jovial God. I got to say though that God's laugh must be pyrrhic, since two thousand years later only the name of Jesus is taught and not an understanding of Christ, but I guess God does not work by my estimation of time, a day being a thousand years and all. And I don't know why it couldn't be said that God had a laugh if boko haram and fulani herdsmen make the name of Jesus sweep the North in the future like say in 100 or 1000 or so years time. I'm certain it took awhile before humans said God had a laugh especially the first three hundred or so years after Christ when his followers were being persecuted, so it could be the same with boko haram and fulani herdsmen, no?

I really don't know what you are on about here, but having a last laugh is a figurative expression. It's like saying God's purpose prevailed.
Again comparison with Bokoharam and fulani herdsmen is a flawed analogy. Jesus knew he was going to die and gave himself up for his disciples and what he believed in and God crowned his sacrifice with glory, bokoharam are killing people who do not want to die.
God having a laugh is not about the religon christianity itself, but rather the belief that he lives on and his message still prevailed.
My Kingdom is not a set up of this world, else my servants would stand and fight for me not to be taken . After the death of jesus, the kingdom of God was set up with the disciples now alone and having his spirit to take the message everywhere. The message they were to bring is that the kingdom of God is here and now for those who are ready to live the kingdom lifestyle. I am not speaking religion here, so I don't know what you are on about it taking 300 years and so forth, Constantine or no Constantine, the message of the kingdom would have stood the test of time. Within 300years, they were already 10% of the Roman Empire despite persecution and they were growing not declining. Constantine simply used the religon for his purpose, because if you can't beat them, join them.

Still, I can't help wonder what Christ might have done if he'd lived. He might gave taken the Word to its logical conclusion and written a book instead of leaving us with four Gospels et al, but I guess we had to murder him for God's will to prevail.

We didn't have to murder him for God's will to prevail, but when we did, it didn't stop God's will. That's the gist.

budaatum:
Boko haram? Fulani herdsmen? Or have you just not interpreted it yet?

Hmm not thesame analogy. The arguement is that those pharisees or Jewish leaders intended only evil ( which was against the will of God) but God had the last laugh in the end. We now have disciples teaching in the name of Jesus and stuff like that.

I don't know what glory the deeds of Bokoharam and fulani herdsmen can bring in the end and I don't think there is any.

So we can't really compare both scenarios.

budaatum:
God used their evil act of murder? What an Interesting idea.

I hope your version of God would not use boko haram too or one might suspect its motive.

God can turn something meant for evil into good. That's the interpretation of the death of Jesus in the new testament as a whole.

Janosky:
* 2 Timothy 3:16 (Compare John 15:15)
" All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong"

@ Genesis 40:20 & Matthew 14:6, Did Paul & Jesus teach you both verses are inspired by God?

@ Genesis 40:20 & Matthew 14:6, did the holy Scriptures inspired by God teach you that birthday celebrations is a pagan practice ?

Are birthdays celebrations "special days" to pagans?

Galatians 4:8-11
8 Formerly, when you did not know God,(A) you were slaves(B) to those who by nature are not gods.(C) 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God(D)—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[a]? [/b]Do you wish to be enslaved(E) by them all over again?(F) 10 [b]You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!(G) 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you
@ Galatians 4:8-11, did your Bible says you must shun "special days" of pagans?

Galatians 4v8-11 is not talking about birthdays but against observing special seasons of judaism in order to be justified by the law. The Galatians were listening to Judaizers or people who taught that some Jewish ceremonies were to be observed to please God. You are reading that scripture wrongly.

You are the one inserting birthday celebration there. Consider Romans 14, where you are advised to do what you do in good conscience and in honour to the lord. Just like in Ecclesiastes, it is recommended that in whatever you do, the right intention matters.

Emusan:
You didn't even add the most important one

"Wedding Ring" which is a pagan practice but his organization still using till today.

Oh really? I thought they were like deeper life who argues that it was used by Aaron to make a calf, so therefore it's rejected.

Janosky:
Good point about marathon race.
1 Timothy 4:8
"Bodily training is beneficial for a little but godly devotion is beneficial for all things"...."

Bros, pls Use your Bible, show this forum where Paul extolled annual Birthday celebrations.

Pagans invented music, 24 hours clock, reading, playing instruments, Keeping pets, etc.
Pagans invented virtually everything. All the servants of Jehovah did in the bible was to select some practices and reject others. Those rejected were clearly spelt out and you have not shown me where birthday celebration was one of them.

Janosky:
Pharaoh, a pagan celebrated his birthday.
Herod, a pagan celebrated his birthday.
Birthday is pagan practice.
Nobody,I repeat, nobody serving Jehovah God did so.
That is the point.

Both men did terrible things, that's a side issue to the main issue (pagan practice of birthdays celebrations).

And the point is that not all pagan practices were rejected by the biblical scriptures.
Even paul used Marathon race of a pagan sports man as an example of how to fight the good fight, can you give me an example of a servant of Jehovah who ran Marathon race? Is Marathon race (something good for the health) a sin?
Pagans are also children of God and in time past, they invented almost everything then.

Janosky:
See them hypocrites wey know God, present one proof of a servant of Jehovah wey do him birthday or continue DECEIVING yourselves and WAILING on Nairaland.

Genesis 40:20 and Matthew 14:6 did you not see evidences that ONLY pagans did it ?

I don't understand your arguement here, so if Pharoah and Herod both did terrible things on their birthday, did Jehovah in his scriptures deduce for you from those incidents that celebrating birthday is now altogether sinfull?

People can also do terrible things while celebrating the death of Jesus or any holy event. Some popes in the 14th century could have decided to burn witches alive on that same day, and if the bible was still being written then, it could have been recorded too. Would you then say celebrating the death of Jesus is a sin just because a Pope decided to celebrate it in his own cruel way?

achorladey:
It is easy for them to jump on the the wisdom of the world(pagans) is foolishness to God. But you see them thanking God for giving them ZOOM app(developed by the world) during the lockdown to carry on with their religious activities. Shouldn't they be grateful to Satan and his pagans agents for providing something their God can bless during this period?

The day of death is better than the day of birth. Simple adjective of comparison between two things. When one out of the two is better what does that tell them of the other? According to them it equals BAD but we know the it can only be good....... better...... best and NOT bad......... better........ best.

I find their reasoning astonishing as well, these type of interpretations are so wild.

MaxInDHouse:
Do you remember a servant of God who participated in any national competition in Bible times?

So you think the bible contains everything? Do you also require the bible to tell you whether to have pets, or what to do every second of your life? Scriptures weren't written for that purpose. Even Ecclesiastes says drink and make merry, just be wise and remember God always, that's all. There's nothing wrong in making merry, just do not make merry or celebrate like the world e.g Herod, Pharaoh, etc. The bible never said you shouldn't celebrate birthdays. If you give me such a verse, then I would agree it is not just the doctrine of your church but a commandment you read from the bible.

MaxInDHouse:
As long as it will involves nation against nation and anthems like Nebuchadnezzar's arrangement will be recited you can never find any of our children (who are also worshipers of our God) there!

Oh my God, so your children cannot take part in friendly competitions that unite the world? Even sports like marathon that was used by paul as an example is also sin to you? Oh come on man, relax. Almost everything we have today in our world were invented by Pagans in time past such as clock, writing, etc and even Jehovah's people have used them from time past. As long as the bible does not expressly forbid you, then it's nothing but the interpretation of the Jehovah Witnesses which I find astonishing.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy God's people have a heritage and jealously they stick to it, that's why you can never find a single worshiper of our own God having anything to do with BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION! Isaiah 54:17
But if you're looking for where our God specifically spoke against a celebration initiated by pagans, then you can't find it because in the heritage passed onto us there is nothing like birthday celebration! Jeremiah 31:33-34

In the heritage passed unto you, there is nothing like sports or Marathon race as well, would you therefore prevent your children from taking part in such?

MaxInDHouse:
Someone introduced a brand and throughout the earth it's sold and bought but you want to equate such with products limited to a particular race or geographical location!

Well that's your level of understanding my friend!

But it's not the only religous organization that has been sold and bought throughout the earth. It is not even half as popular as Protestanism, Catholicism, and Islam.

Janosky:
Let's get these facts established.....

Genesis 40:20, king Pharaoh celebrated his birthday.
Bros , Exodus 8:1 does King Pharaoh worship Jehovah the God of Israel?

Matthew 14:6, King Herod is a Roman emperor. He celebrated his birthday.
Bros, Do the Romans worship Jehovah God?

So because Pharaoh celebrated his birthday, then you can't celebrate your birthday? Still none of these scriptures tell you directly not to celebrate your birthdays in your holy way.

Even though you have failed to show me a scripture that forbids birthday celebration, I'll still say not everything from the pagans are excluded by God. Pagans from time immemorial who never worshipped Jehovah God also built great civilisations and had some wonderful philosophies like Taoism from Confucius in China, and even some of the African Ancestors had some great moral cultures as well which the God who created them may have also inspired.

Pagans invented sports and Olympics as we know it today. It was practiced in the Roman Empire that even Paul used it as an example of how Christians should run the race. Pagans invented writing not the Israelites. Pagans did a lot of things that the children of Isreal had to eventually adopt.

God of the Israelites only prevented terrible customs of the pagans like human sacrifices, sexual sins, and the likes not birthday celebration.

MaxInDHouse:
There are Jehovah's Witnesses in all the countries on this planet, people surrendered weapons to become peaceloving even in the most racist Arab nations!


That's the point, they existed before Jesus but they remained in just one part of the earth!


It's not by number but please go to your own village talk to people about Janism or Buddhism and see how many have heard of them apart from you that read of such things in books. But just mention Jehovah's Witnesses and start hearing people telling you lots and lots and lots of things about the world's most active group!

So it's not by number Sir it's by the SPIRIT of the one who is SUPREME! Zachariah 4:6

Whether Jehovah Witness or Baptism or Whatever, all are still just religions and at the core they preach that men should be peaceful with one another. Religion is an invention of humans, it is a form of human culture. There is no one special religion.