₦airaland Forum

BernieLee:
You promised folks airtime just to draw in people. After not fulfiling that pledge, you rushed and edited that part out. Must people lie in God's name? must we continue to sin so Grace may abound? Think about it. Happy easter everyone.

lol, so you believe the airtime thing before? when he himself probably doesn't even know the answer to the question? You fall my hand bros, I nor go lie you.

FirstSon01:
this is enlightening...
I've always regarded Paul as the Pioneer of the Roman Catholic church irrespective of their claims of Peter been the first Pope because most of their tenets were first mentioned and coined by Paul and not just the Roman Catholic Church but nearly all churches.

back to the issue, so if Christ wasn't supposed to die does that mean the devil won or plans changed at the last minute?

Your concept of christianity is still fixated on what you were taught. Read the bible for yourself, start with the gospels Mark-Matthew-Luke-John in that order.
Jesus came to teach and demonstrate the kingdom of God, in the process death was inevitable for him. Where then are you getting this whole devil and change of plans theory from?

What does it even mean to accept Jesus sef?

In4matic:
Exactly...
The mission of Jesus did not include death for any sins. That is unscriptural.

Even Jesus never taught so, not him, nor his disciples.

Read through the sermon of Peter after the Pentecost carefully, no such thing was taught. But repent of your evil ways and ye will be saved.

Paul taught this heresy in order to make people remain in their evil ways.

Paul deceptively taught "believe his death has washed away your sins and you're good to go".
Notice why the entire Christian religion is full of hypocrites; holy on Sunday, sinners the rest of the week.

I agree that most of these misconceptions that Jesus came into the world simply to die only and shed blood for sin comes majorly from the epistles.

Jesus mission was to " Teach and prove the kingdom of God" when you read the gospels properly.

Well Jesus seemed to be saying: Just ask and seek, your heavenly father would give every good thing you desire to you. He would not give you snake, when you ask for bread.
He however tells you not to worry, for even the lilies in the field do not worry, but they appear even more beautiful than Solomon could ever dream of becoming, even in all his glory.

So the message is: Ask, seek, knock, but be anxious for nothing.

Your heavenly father already knows that you need these things, but seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and every other thing shall be added unto you.

Jman24:
English teacher.
All have sinned means you did it .
Stop twisting English language.
Which one is inherited.? Na land?



The right connotation should have been "Adam sinned and fell short of the glory, and by this, we have inherited ourselves that nature that requires a redemption."

Not

All have sinned(an act) and fall short (present future tense) of the glory etc

If a promiscuous lady gets the HIV virus and she is pregnant, her unborn child who inherits that virus coming into this world, comes in that state of sin because of the mother.

To the ancient jews, it means she was born in sin or she is automatically a sinner suffering because of the deeds of her parents.

They (the jews) answered and said to him(the blind man), “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they cast him out.
John 9v34

It seemed from the culture in ancient judaism, some specific people are considered to be sinners from birth either because of what was done in their family line previously or because of their past lives (reincarnation ). Paul is simply applying this belief of the first century jews to all men, because all men eventually trace their origins to Adam a sinner.

Paul is arguing this, so the jews do not discriminate only some to be born in sin ( e.g the gentiles) but rather consider that all men were born into thesame problem of sin and need freedom. Think about it, a blind man born blind was seen as a probable sinner by the first century jews and they also said he was born in sin, this to them seemed to be the reason why he was blind even as a baby.

Paul is addressing a problem which men are born into, not necessarily the act itself.

Paul also said : In Adam all die. The problem according to paul is in what Adam did.

FirstSon01:
if the adamic sin still affects us then jesus's dieing was a waste don't ya think??

How does Jesus dying connect to the fact that the actions of our ancestors put us where we are?

FirstSon01:
lemme reiterate, those soldiers fighting for their country love their country and hate the other country so god loved the Israelites and hated the jebusites?? this is what I was pointing at.

secondly I don't ever remember rebelling against god, do you??

p.s don't quote Romans 8:23 "for all have sined" cause not all have sined. a day old baby hasn't signed against anyone so that verse is technically not correct.

All have sinned does not mean all have committed the act of sin. It means all inherited the consequences or state of sin, since all were in the loins of their ancestors or ancestor Adam when they/he sinned.

It simply means the actions of our ancestors affect us.

God sent his son to earth to serve (not to be served) and to give his life as a ransom for many ( Mark 10v45).

FirstSon01:
no, that's wrong
your bible says if I fail to accept Christ as my lord and savior I'll go to hell wether or not I've been a good person on Earth.

secondly god created hell himself to send people who don't agree with him to.

Where did the bible say that? can you quote it for me?

Well God is love as seen in Jesus. Jesus showed what love is by laying down his life for his friends and his nation and by a great extension the world. He laid down his life so his gospel can prevail.

Hellfire is gnashing of teeth and regret in the afterlife by those who cannot partake in the kingdom of God .

Every other thing you wrote about God threatening you to accept him or go to Hellfire are from your own imaginations. Hell is more like a state of corruption or death which you enter into naturally when you remain in sin.

LisaAnneMia:
You'll know the teachings that are under the law....that were meant for the Pharisees who place heavy burden on people. The Pharisees, according to the law, say that except you are caught in the act, you haven't sinned. Jesus said even if u look at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery. Everything Jesus said is Holy. The law is Holy but it can't make u holy. Only Jesus can.

Did you notice the two different men in Luke? The rich young ruler and that short man? The rich guy boasted that he has kept everything till Jesus said he should sell all he has and give to the poor. Christians will say Jesus didn't really mean it but he did, and the guy couldn't even drop one penny. The other short rich guy...when Jesus went to his house, He didn't give a single law. But this guy touched by Jesus said he'll give almost everything he has to the poor and those he has cheatepld. And when Jesus wanted to heal people, most especially the woman that was bleeding. That woman broke the law cos she was unclean yet Jesus didn't condemn her or say something bad to her. That is the grace. Jesus Himself transforms. The law can't. Jesus showed and described grace in His every actions. And then He said "I have come to fulfill the law". Why did He need to do that since He's holy?

Jesus came to teach us the true ways of God (law or no law).

Where the law contradicts the teachings of Jesus, as a disciple of Jesus you go with that of Jesus. If the gospels says Jesus did not condemn the woman bleeding, then I as a disciple of Jesus would interpret it to mean that law was not so important in the first place. It simply means there are weighter matters to be considered. The problem would then lie either on the law itself forbidding bleeding women from coming out or on the way it was understood and practiced by men. Whatever the case, jesus was right not to condemn her and it wasn't about a so called grace, it was more about the worldview of jesus and how he saw things.

You don't have to invent grace anywhere, all you have to do is obey the sayings of christ and put them in first place over the law or anything else.

LisaAnneMia:
You think the epistles are difficult? But I actually feel Christians focus more on what Jesus said than even the epistles. Cos the epistles show their righteous identity in Christ. But they go to the law that Jesus said to bring the Pharisees and those under the law to the end of themselves and see how difficult the law is, so they can see the need for grace(Jesus)

So you mean Jesus teachings were only for those under the law?
Jesus said why do you call me lord, lord, and not do what I say? was he speaking to only those under the law or to all who would call him Lord / Master?
Also what is grace? and how does Jesus explain it in the gospels?

LisaAnneMia:
I remember that part where they accused Him. Thank God He didn't cut His flesh out or slice his skin for blood
And yea, our eye is the lamp of the body, and we're the salt of the earth. That's our identity. An unbeliever cannot use his logical mind to understand that. But an unbeliever can understand the law

Cool. But do you agree that the Christians these days focus too much on the epistles and the difficult letters of paul which they take out of context rather than use all that energy on the gospels first?

LisaAnneMia:
But Jesus gave His disciples bread and wine, and said that's His flesh and blood

Yeah but initially the jews accused him of wanting to give them his flesh to eat. Also there are atheists here who have argued with me quoting that Jesus wanted us to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He even said I am the bread who came down from heaven.
Jesus also said things like the eye is the lamp of the body, ye are the salt of the earth, out of your belly shall flow rivers of living water, etc.

LisaAnneMia:
Jesus also said if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it off. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. I wonder why Christians aren't walking around with one hand and one eye They just choose which laws to follow and which ones to ignore.

It's just like saying Jesus said you should eat his flesh and drink his blood, therefore all Christians should go around looking for his flesh to eat and blood to drink.

Fran6ik:
So the teachings of Jesus lasted only until the Cross?

lol, don't mind Nigerian Christians in general. Many of them understand the new testament backwards. They read the epistles first and then interprete the gospels from the epistles rather than the other way round.

Well nice thread, although the passage never said it's because he knew he was fulfilling the purpose of his coming though. But in all, your message here is superb.

khiaa:
You're right because Satan, while in heaven was jealous of man. Lmao you just brought up another point that I have always question. If the pit is bottomless when will Satan ever reach it?;

Where did you get the bolded from?

khiaa:
The fact is it's not about your opinion but what the scriptures tell us.

Isaiah was speaking about a king whom he called Lucifer. Lucifer means light, it is a good name.

Revelation says there was war in heaven between Michael and the Dragon. How Christians deduced that this war occurred in the past before the creation of earth baffles me till this day. Revelation was written as an action movie and not everything there is to be taken literally. There you have beasts, dragons, and several kinds of creatures.

khiaa:
Satan sinned before man's creation that's why he was kicked out of heaven and sent to the bottomless pit. Try again.

I think you guys are reading too much into Isaiah and Revelation.

DappaD:
It seems you have a different definition of what “myths” really are because since you are now caught in your own web which you made by yourself, you’d do anything to get out of it including misdefining what “myths” are.

If the Biblical accounts are all myths like you claim, then they can never be fundamental truths and Jesus was just quoting from falsehoods? Compare Genesis 2:24 with Matthew 19:5

When Jesus said that “Your word is truth” at John 17:17, was he implying that some part of the Scriptures were false and other parts were true? Or was his statement completely in harmony with Paul’s words at 2Timothy 3:16?


Please enough, you have already rendered everything Jesus said as mere stories/fables with no meaning so please focus on sonmvayina for now let me observe what comes out your discussion with him since he has said that your Jesus is a “mythical” character.

I never claimed the biblical accounts are all myths but there are some myths in them. All ancient cultures had myths in their historical telling but the bulk of these stories were meant to be historical accounts to the people.

Apart from the Author of Timothy claiming all scriptures are inspired, we do not find this anywhere else. The Author is simply teaching Timothy that scriptures are useful for our learning, that's all. The bible is a collection or volume of various scriptures and even the Torah as a whole does not claim it is the complete word of God. Scribes in the time of Ezrah also wrote history to the people like Chronicles and they edited the so called five books of Moses, you cannot claim God dictated everything. The inspired word of God is in the bible and we must rightly divide the bible to find them and allow them minister to us but it is not the entire bible.

Jesus saying your word is truth doesn't mean the entire bible is true, the word of God is not limited to the Bible.

Jesus is not a mythical character but the true son of God who walked the earth.

DappaD:
Genesis chapter 1 & 2 are nothing but mythical stories? How come Jesus quoted from one of those so-called “mythical” chapters? Does that mean also, that Jesus is a “mythical” character and that you are no longer a Christian like you claim?
Your comments are so absurd and out of the ordinary I must say because if Paul(whom the Jesus you claim to follow appointed at Acts 9:15) could say that “ALL SCRIPTURE(Genesis to Revelation) are inspired of God” who are you to say otherwise? 2Timothy 3:16

Jesus did not know everything as a human being (else he would not be a human). Also even Jesus admitted he doesn't know when the end would come. He was a complete human vessel like you and I inhabited by God in full (Like no other before him). God gave jesus the spirit without measure and he can be rightfully called the son of God.

Jesus also used the myths and stories of his culture and his people in their context especially when these mythologies had the teachings of God hidden in them for the wise in spirit who hear from the father. All that the people knew then as accounts of creation were the accounts in Genesis, and Jesus as a man who grew up studying the Torah was also limited to the culture of his people, that isn't a problem at all.

Mythologies are not necessarily false, they are used to pierce the soul of the wise. Jesus loved stories and myths so much and I love them too because they allow free thinking and deep revelations.

Paul saying all scriptures are inspired by God or God breathed does not mean there are no myths in scriptures. Besides, God's inspiration may take many forms and may not necessarily mean God's dictation. Even Paul at a point gave his personal advice in his letters and in that 1 Timothy, Paul (or whoever wrote it in paul's name) was referring specifically to the scriptures in the Torah, and at that time the new testament wasn't even compiled and accepted as scripture.

XXXXTENTACION:
Well following the bible knowledge it was the devil that tempted eve to eat the apple and according to bible verses the devil also tempts humans to commit sin. Like he tempted jesus in the wilderness.

Genesis 1 and 2 are most likely mythical stories where a serpent speaks, but it was taken as a true account of creation by the Israelites. The story has profound meaning and tells us that from one man came all the families of the earth, but this man was thrown out of the kingdom of God after knowing good and evil ( losing his innocence). So what the story is saying in essence is that the first man and woman ( our ancestors) in their quest for wisdom like a serpent they lost God's presence, but even now that they have this knowledge of good and evil ( like the gods), they can still reach out for the tree of life to claim their previous state nonetheless.
The story is a myth that gives a summary of the truth of how our Ancestors lost it with God.

XXXXTENTACION:
Using simple logic
premise: if someone commits a crime or sin he/she gets punished for that sin.
.
argument: if satan commits a sin then logically satan is supposed to be punished for his sin but how come Jesus gets to be sacrificed
.
.
argument 2: if human beings commit evil logically humans are supposed to pay for the evil but how come Jesus gets to be the one to be sacrificed While humans who did the evil go to heaven

I understand your premise, but if I may, let me state my view on the matter.
Christ death is because of our sins not necessarily for our sins.
Christ was born in Isreal amongst Gods' people, and he came to show the wonderful works of God and to bring peace to the world from Israel as the Messiah, but Israel ( who were supposed to be shining examples to the world) had also like sheep gone astray, they were not the powerful nation in the land of milk and honey ( the kingdom of God) rather they were in bondage and oppression, carrying a cross.
God gave us Jesus but he also was born into this world of oppression due to sin, and though he was the son of God, he was also punished like his people with oppression, suffering, and death.

The importance of this is to show that God sees the suffering of his people just like in Egypt when Moses delivered them and the story goes to say that God brought this Jesus to life again and he was seen by his disciples, so also God would raise again all who are hungry and thirsty for righteousness/freedom and who die for it.

Mark 8:34, KJV: "And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

peggywebbs:
When I read things like this..it baffles me to see how much people don't understand the bible. When you try to overanalyze things you end up causing confusion for yourself.


Speaking of sacrifice. God did not kill anyone, he did not kill his son. He sacrificed him meaning that he knew that if he sent him to the world to do all that he was to do (preach the gospel, heal the sick, show the people the way to God), he would be killed.


He knew that men would kill him and that was what happened. He allowed his son Jesus come despite the fact that he knew he would be killed. Matt 17:12. Just like they had John the Baptist killed.

It is the same thing today. When someone says the truth or comes out to challenge the people in power for doing wrong. They get killed and it has always been that way.

Christ paid the price by coming to earth and revealing the truth. The Pharisees in those days lied to the people and extorted them. We have the truth with us and through the sacrifice of our saviour Jesus Christ, we know that we are saved because we now have communion with him and a direct relationship with God.

You seem to be the only christian on this forum I have seen discuss the issue of sacrifice of christ ( out of those who discuss it) with clarity and biblical backing. Well done.
Many Christians give people the false impression that was a human sacrifice to God or that he came to this world simply to be a human sacrifice for our sin, this is so wrong.

yanabasee1:
You don't sacrifice impure offerings to God ...


You can only sacrifice pure offerings to God....

So does that mean Jesus was a human sacrificial offering to God? Are you saying God does human sacrifice? Where did Jesus in the gospels tell you he came to become a human sacrifice to God?

Dtruthspeaker:
There is a difference between fore-know and can know!

God, Also Does, "Surprise me" as He Did with Adam to wit- "TO SEE what he shall call them" Genesis 2:19.

Same thing in Genesis 6:5 and in Sodom/Gomorrah when He said "I Go Down now AND SEE whether THEY HAVE DONE ALTOGETHER according to the cry of it"!

God can fore-know when He Wants to but He Adopts the attitude of "Surprise Me"!

So how often do you think God does the "Surprise Me" ?
In my opinion, I think it's more accurate to say God is all wise, rather than to say he is all knowing.

So to agree with you, God's foreknowledge of events would then be based on his wisdom, which means he knows the beginning from the end only generally because of his wisdom and allround planning that affects events generally. So he knows what he would do and he knows he would succeed in the end.

However it is possible he doesn't always know every single detail of our future actions, he can only wisely predict them accurately and create countermeasures.

XXXXTENTACION:
so in other words you are saying God does'nt know everything

I think so based on the evidence to me, but if you have counter evidence to that, I am willing to accept.
If God knows everything, then Judgement of sin to me would be nothing but a scam.

kingxsamz:
Do you want their god to feel lonely?
Haven't you heard the saying "God eats songs and praises"?
If there's no Angel to praise and massage its ego, don't you know the god will die?

You are partially right, love is all about communion, bond, and sharing.

XXXXTENTACION:
so you are saying God ain't omnipresent or omniscient

If God is omniscient then it means he knows everything already before they happen, then freewill and judgement of sin based on freewill makes no sense in that context.
Is there really proof in the bible that God is omniscient? Or is it just because the psalmist said he knows the numbering of the hairs in our head and stuff like that? I don't think there's real proof of God's omniscience.

The son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many
Mark 10v45.