₦airaland Forum

The funny thing is when religous people see unbelievable tales in other scriptures, they laugh at them and simply dismiss them. When it comes to their own scriptures however they justify them as the power of God.

sonmvayina:
According to a story book..


You are still ignorant of spiritual matters...
I don't really know where to start..

Let's do whatsapp..oh ate oh fife tiri for fife won 9 zero tiri.....just both of us. So I can clarify stuff for you.

Trust me, if you live by these passages, nothing could be more spiritual.

sonmvayina:
Which father?
Then you really don't know what God is....do you?

The gospels are not eye witness account. I have a good reason to believe they where written by one person and the others just copied from it and tried to build on it..

God already gave us his rules, traditions and customs in his laws...
No body whatsoever has the right to change them. They are to stand forever. Even when the promised messiah comes, he will teach people to obey it. So that oppression and war will be no more....

I never said the gospels were eye witness accounts.

Matthew and Luke copied from Mark and another early source.

Jesus came to teach God's laws. God's laws are not limited to the Isreali Torah and/or Tanakh. The laws which the Isrealites wrote as God's laws have different sections, some were moral and universal, others could only be carried out by the children of Isreal in a temple e.g the sacrifices.

In Jesus we find universal laws of God for all men, such as:
a) Do unto others what you would have them do unto you for these are the laws and the prophets.

b) Love your enemies and bless those who persecute you and curse you so that you may be sons of your father in heaven who makes his sun to shine on both the good and the evil.

c) Anyone who desires to be greatest among you should also be ready to be servant of all, for if I your lord and Master could wash your feet, then you must do thesame to one another because even the son of man did not come to serve but to be served and to give his life as a ransom for many.

d) Let the little children come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

e) Be wise as serpent but harmless as doves

f)If you want your heavenly father to forgive you then forgive others their trespasses against you.

g) When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbours, lest they also invite you back and you be repaid, but rather call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, because they cannot repay you and you will be repayed at the resurrection of the just

These and many more are the universal laws God wants us to follow.

sonmvayina:
Well, anybody can say or write anything. Or tell a story. It is called fiction.

There is no where in the old testament that remotely say that. All the prophets were dwelling on for their fellow men to obey God's commandments. Nothing more. God never asked anybody to go through an intermediary or middle man.."do not have any other God before me" it is very clear..

Jesus must be talking about another God. Maybe Zeus.

If you read the passages well, it says anyone who learns from God would know if what I teach are also from God and would come to me. The major reason I believe there was a real Jesus who was a wise prophet sent from God is that...In Matthew, Mark, Luke,John, even with the bias of the authors and contradictions in them, the attentive mind can easily map out a trend or personality from all of them combined. I believe in Jesus because the teachings attributed to him in the four gospels are what I have also learnt from the father.

ChristisGod:
So what is the work of God? How can I do Gods work?

The Jews asked Jesus this question in the Bible




[28]Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

John 6:28

Below is what the Lord Jesus told them:

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:29

You see, believing in JESUS is the work of God; Halleluyah

To believe in Jesus doesn't mean you should believe in doctrines about him. It simply means you should trust him enough to obey his teachings and even be ready to die for them.
It is simple enough to just believe he was messaiah sent by God and hence carry your cross and follow, that is all.
You don't have to subscribe to virgin birth, trinity, and stuff like that.

[quote author=Dtruthspeaker post=101752518]

Without missing a beat, yes, they are as all the women who mothers and sisters eported in Family Section, Romance Section and Crime Section.

okay then.

I told you this falls under criminology, which is the study of all aspects of crime and here you have little experience, but I do it as a profession.

Most of the news on crime I read have been majorly committed by men. From BokoHaram to Uduak Akpan, from the rapists, bandits and kidnappers to Fulani Herdsmen. Heck going by the news alone, many young ladies should even beware of men and find ways to protect themselves.

Men commit crimes of survival, profit and pride, women commit crimes out of jealousy (evil), hatred (evil), envy (evil), premeditation (evil), revenge/vengeance (evil), satanism called sadistic (evil).

This is so so false. Rapists like uduak commit crime sometimes out of revenge. Men kill themselves out of jealousy a lot. Like I said if you have data or evidence to back up your claims present them.

You can profile it and come to your own conclusion by making a list of reasonable crimes comparing the crimes committed by men with those committed by women, using the crimes reported in Crime Section.

So which sex committed the Most Number of the Wickedest Crimes.

How do you classify wickedest crimes? Both men and women kill people, torture them before killing them and even cut of body parts for ritual purposes. Hitler and Stalin were both men. Even Buhari is a man . Men betray their loved ones as much as women do. I just don't get your points here honestly because they are not backed by facts but emotions. This is why you keep bringing up the Romance Section of nairaland.

That's why you are the ordinary man and I am not. Crime is not crime, the crime of wrongful parking is not the same as rape-murder!

What makes you an extraordinary man? Crime is Crime but they do not weigh thesame and do not have thesame consequences or punishment. You however are yet to prove that women commit more heinous crimes with devastating consequences ( deserving of greater punishment) on the average than men.

But to you it may not matter until a judge tells uduak to pay a fine for rape-murder, then, I trust, you would Scream "unjust is" and "Uduak has bribed the judge!

The consequences of crimes are not on thesame scale. I agree with you on that, however, you have not proven that the crimes of women are special to women or even if we allow this for arguements' sake, you haven't shown how more devastating they are compared to the crimes men commit. That's what would make your arguement compelling, everything else would be from sentiments and emotion not facts.

The bolded is the key and Romance and Family Section tell you how very plenty and easy this "Favour of God is"!

Yes, It's very very plenty indeed and No marriages are not breaking up, they are everlasting as the their husbands and children.adore and praise them"!

lol, are you arguing with the book of Proverbs here? I didn't write it, it's stated there in the book of proverbs that they are a favour from God. Are you arguing with the bible here?

You said "why did Jesus take his time to praise them and even send them out on missions."

But Jesus did send them out on missions as part of the 70, heck he was even sponsored by the wealthy ones among them. Read your bible.

Which did not happe and so Now you have altered your statement to "And the ones going to tend to his grave after his death?", Which was not in issue. So it's poof!

Except that it happened.

I am sorry you are not able to see and neither can I help you see, but if you live seeing, the Bible is Always there for you to See!

We have both used the bible to support our argument here and at a point you were even almost arguing with the Bible to my confusion.

So, at this point, I see this issue has run its course, I have said what I said and I stand with it and you have your own view, so we can each part with our respective opinions, with the profits or losses thereof!

It's okay to have your own view. We all have our views, but are they facts or sentiments?

Friend22:
See,as far as a Muslim is concerned barrier such as region,state,country, race and ethnicity is not even there.
All those are just figment in the imagination of those who see those as identifiers as what matters.

A Muslim in the doldrums of a remote village in Tajikistan is more dear to me than a blood brother who is not a Muslim.
That's what my religion teaches me .

We Muslims all over the universe(whether in Mars,Jupiter, Saturn ,Uranus or anywhere) see ourselves as one indivisible body.
One UMMAH(COMMUNITY)!

Whatever affects a Muslim in Borno,Kano,Bombay, Chad it also affects me.


What's even my business with a proscribed group and their leader who even curses Christians from his own region.

What's even my business with non muslim Ibo?

This is the problem with religon in general especially the Abrahamic ones, they can lead to segregation and division. You are saying a Muslim in Palestine is more dear to you than a blood brother who is not a Muslim. Doesn't this doctrine sound dangerous to you?

chrisxxx:
Lol. All the religious Books say the same as I have said. There is no marriage in heaven the Bible says.

This is not true, because in Quranic heaven, you'll find women with beautiful eyes and good breast. There are all forms of enjoyment in Islamic heaven, so it's not all the religous books like you asserted.

[quote author=Dtruthspeaker post=101745303]

You just had to fall for this trap! They were my teachers and every woman is exactly as they are, doing the very same Evilness, as Family Section, Romance Section and Crime Section have confirmed.

So you are saying your mum and your sister were/are specially evil like every other woman, is that what you are saying?

It is us men who we know we could be very evil but generally and popularly, we do not like doing Wickedness, not to talk of extreme wickedness!

Do you have evidence for this? Because the last time I checked, the reverse seemed to be the case. Both men and women do evil and there is no evidence that men do not like doing wickedness. What we see is that men do all sorts of wickedness probably not more or less than women. If you have evidence or data to the contrary, present it here.

But women can not wait to be extremely wicked, as you have seen, which is why they mostly do nothing so that they would not reveal themselves by their doings which they know if they do not control themselves, their evilness will and must show.

What evidence do you have for this?

Welcome to Criminology! They do not easily commit the popular crimes against the Community called State, (whatever that means) but they are the Criminals of All Personal and Domestic Crimes, world over. (Which are still crimes against the community but the community attempt to peacefully resolve it while not prosecuting them which in turn made them commit more deeper crimes which they will not allow the community to See.

Crime is Crime, no matter how you classify it. The crime committed by Uduak Akpan and the likes are as devastating as any other form of crime, whether family crime, domestic crime, etc.

Who's a strange woman?

And which women is not as a strange woman?

Compare with Virtuous woman particular verse Proverbs 31: 26

It's not surprising, since you already agreed your mum and sisters are also strange women. What is surprising in this arguement is that you refuse to admit that men are also strange, and your bible says the heart of man is desperately wicked. Thesame proverbs even says a wife is a good thing and favour from God. Are these particular wives in the book of proverbs also part of the strange women in thesame proverbs.

First, I did not see any woman among the people who followed Christ.

So who were Mary Magdalene, Martha and the likes? And the ones going to tend to his grave after his death? Unlike you, even Jesus did not believe his mum was a strange woman, he handed her over to the beloved disciple while on the cross. Because of her, he had to perform his first miracle even before it was time.

Secondly, I do not say that they are incapable of changing as The Lady in Luke 7:37 (did you see how much and great she begged for forgiveness?)

That should tell you a lot.

Compared to the thief on the cross with Him, or the paralytic man, do you see the difference?

You are not making sense here? A lady begged for forgiveness with all of her emotions compared to a man who was a robber and probably killer not begging emotionally. How did you conclude from this that her sins were greater because she begged more?

Christ Clearly told us that He did not come for judgement but to teach judgements that we may condemn ourselves and change, if we want!

Yeah and that also applied to men not just women. He came for people like zaccheus too ( a well known sinner).

Dtruthspeaker:
I do not say that they can never change, I just said that they are very very evil and I watch to see if there is an end to their doing evil.

Which they never truly stop!

Do you know women also say men are evil? they tell themselves this also: Beware of men except they change, but men hardly change.
So what makes you right and makes those women wrong?

Dtruthspeaker:
I am not trolling I am only happy to lend a Truthful voice to these matter for I only just finished learning the deep and secret minds of women and why they are the way they are, as we have all seen and experienced.

And the highest unbelievable Truth is that they are very very very evil but they see that men do not know, hence they struggle to tune down their evil but ALL WOMEN KNOW these things.

That's why their favourite word is "You don't know me oh, mmmh!"

They are Truly Confessing and Warning you that they Satan but you can not believe that you are seeing Satan live and Clear.

And of course you think it is specific to the woman who has shown herself but All of them are the same, they are only trying and struggling against revealing themselves to you, but if you are very watchful, you would see them. And you did see them only that you were unable to interpret their information!

So I am not saying this to troll but I am saying that once again, the Bible is Accurately and Perfectly Right on Target.

"Drink from thy own cistern and keep away from the eyelids of strange women. Her depths Truly go down to hell and her lips is Truly the way to death.

Proverbs 5,6,7,8 and 9 is your best friend if you love Life and Peace and Goodness!

Are you kidding me? But is your mum and/or sister like all other women in this aspect? Why not say humans could be very evil, why single out women? There is no evidence that women commit more crime in the world than men. Also Proverbs doesn't say women, it says strange women. There are wicked and bloodthirsty men but the only difference here is that some wicked women utilize their innocent looks as a form of deception. Men and Women are capable of equal measures of good and bad.

If women were so distinctively evil, why did Jesus take his time to praise them and even send them out on missions. Mary Magdalene as well as the woman at the well were not condemned by Jesus. Heck the woman at the well despite her faults became an instrument of the gospel in her village. I don't think Jesus agrees with you that woman are specially evil and therefore should not preach.

AntiChristian:
So in summary:

Women are devilish!

Women can't lead, teach according to Paul.

Women can spread the gospel and having God's rep is wrong.

Woman can lead, teach but shouldn't start a church.

One christianity!

Islam is even worse in this aspect. Women don't even pray together with men, also a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man, and finally you are allowed to beat your wife gently as a last resort when all else fails.

Lukuluku69:
The answer is simple. Without the Jews, there is no SALVATION in Christianity. The Jews killed Jesus in order for Christians to enjoy Salvation in Jesus father's Heaven.

So, they need to pay them back somehow. So, supporting them on anything and everything is a MUST.

Lol, so Christians are supporting the jews for killing Jesus to bring them salvation?

Dtruthspeaker:
Hmmh! Women? Women are Satans daughters and concubines. They are very very evil and very cunning more than what men know, but men are just beginning to real eyes them now! (Romance and Family Section prove this)

And the women know oh! But men think that they are the normal good and evil people like them, but No, they are Not!

They are evil trying not to show you that they are evil.

Yes, I said it!

God knows this Which is why God puts them aside and does not like them, if you observe His Countenance (Spirit) towards them.

So how can they represent Him and Teach His Words?

Shall they not pollute His Word which is A Holy Spirit with their evil spirit?

lol, you are trolling right? I love the sarcasm.

Betscoreodds:
giving it to whom ever he wants means he chose to give it to Adam rather than an angel or Satan then Adam gave it to Satan when he obeyed Satan learn to understand

is that what the passage in Daniel told you?

MaxInDHouse:
Then it's your fault if you failed to single out the religion that truly belongs to God Sir!

You need not to be told who is a real tailor in the midst of thousands of people claiming they're tailors when only one is able to design a fitting outfit whereas the rest can't even handle the sowing machine talkless cutting or sowing anything on the machine.

A wise man once said:

By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.

If they're truly chosen by God, can't you as old as you're figure out what to expect from a religion that is chosen by God?

Well let me help you out.

They must be able to win the heart of people from all races, unite them as lovers of peace everywhere they find them, stop them from resolving issues with violence but amicably as befitting God's people, make them vow never to raise weapons against anyone again and continue using everything they have to make peace reign between them and their neighbours! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Even a toddler will tell you that if every religion teaches such as in inculcate this in the minds of their members, the world will be a Paradise!

So stop being foolish but become wise!

ok let me ask you this simple question: Are Jehovah witnesses the only set of people qualified for Paradise?

I have told you before that the Buddhist religon is peaceful and is now all over the world. It teaches peace and non violence. The Buddha also taught the 8 parts to enlightenment, go look them up. The Western World today are embracing Buddhism like never before and it is still spreading. Immediately so many from the West embrace it in full, it would definitely spread to Africa and Southamerica. So what would you say then?

Krismas:
I believe u have enough intelligence to see thru d issues. The word RULETH in d affairs of men, connotes JUDGEMENT. God judges men for their actions. He removes one ruler and installs another. Becos He owns d kingdom. But He does not own d system, cos wot he wants usually is not wot he gets. In the book of Samuel, the people choose a king against his wish, and established laws not emanating from Him. Worst he can do, is remove one and find a replacement among MEN of course. But d replacement can come and do even more WORSE cud even hand over d kingdom to satan

So in summary, God is always involved in the affairs of men but Satan rules from behind the scenes? Isn't it just better to say God deposes and installs kings in order to have his will done but men (the kings) always decide to go against God's will? Why bring in an external satan? If what you are saying is true, then the Satan the new testament speaks of is also mankind albeit wicked men.

Nascimento:
Granted God has the power to know everything, but he choose not to interfere in all things. He create man as free moral agent. He gave man the liberty to choose. The only thing required for man to show his integrity to God and continue to enjoy blessings is to be obedient. But man chose to follow Satan, hence we suffer from our first parents single act of disobedience.

If God knew that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree, then there was no such thing as freewill anymore for Adam and Eve, because what existed in God's foreknowledge could never have become false at any point in time except you are saying whatever is in God's foreknowledge can always change which would then mean God doesn't know everything.

Nascimento

There is nothing like the spirit of good and bad dwelling in man. We are free moral agents. We decide what to do, good or bad.

That's thesame thing now. The spirit of good and bad in man means we have the power in us to decide good or bad.

If you say satan is not a creature, then who tempted Jesus after he got baptised? Who challenged Job's integrity before God in heaven? Who contended with Michael for the body of Moses? Who did the Bible refer to as "the god of this system of thing"? Who does was the book of revelation 12:12 referring to when it say: "... Devil has come down to you... Knowing he has a short period of time".

Satan is that evil voice within you. It is not a creature. Any Evil man resisting God's will is Satan. When Peter spoke against the will of God for Jesus, Jesus immediately recognized the evil voice speaking was satan. There is no such creature called Satan. Humans are the satans of this world.

Krismas:
U are mistaking. New Testament uses WORLD as the social systems functioning on d earth. Democracy, Socialism, etc are all creation of d Devil. So satan is d boss of his inventions, the god of d world. But d earth is God’s and it belongs to sons of men, who usually give their power to d devil. No contradiction in d bible

I am not mistaken because the Daniel passage is also saying that God rules in the affairs of men ( socialism, Democracy, etc) and gives the kingdom to whoever he chooses. Even Paul slightly agreed with Daniel in the book of Romans 13 when he says every authority was put in place by God to punish evil and correct you, yet you are saying Satan rules in the political affairs of the world? Can't you see the contradiction?

jclassiq:
Satan lied in Isaiah 14:13;

You said in your heart, "I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon."

Is Isaiah 14 about Satan?

PoliteActivist

Questions:
1) why didn't God just not create the tree?

The story is a tale meant to enlighten the people. Christians are taking it too seriously. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil has to do with choices and consequences. It is not a physical tree.

2) Did God know in advance they'd disobey Him?

That's another big contradiction for the literalist. If God knows everything, then of course he can't claim to not know they would disobey him.

MaxInDHouse:
Find the true Christians they will help you understand their book.
Before i was a Muslim and that's exactly what our clerics always say about the Bible but fortunately for me it's one of them who told me that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES understands the book more than others that's why i began questioning JWs on those things that seems contradicting only to find out that the understanding of the book was given to just one Chosen group and whoever wants to read this book without the help of this group will be lost in thought! Daniel 12:10

More Confusion.
My man, almost every denomination in any religion would claim to be the chosen ones and true believers on the right path. From the Shites in Islam who believe that Muhammed's true successor was Ali not Abu Bakr to the Wahabi's who believe they should fight and conquer for the purpose of Jihad, or from Eckankar to Christ Embassy. Every denomination believe they have a special Revelation, so stop adding to this mass confusion. What you should do is explain this seeming disparity between Daniel here and say Paul for instance who called Satan the god of this world.

I wonder why Christians can't accept that the bible is contradictory.

Daniel clearly said God rules in the affairs of men and gives the kingdom to whomever he chooses, while the new testament authors seem to believe that Satan is the ruler of this world. It's a contradiction of Ideologies between Daniel and the new testament authors.

But Man is also Satan. If you know you know.
BTW who was called the Prince of this world in the new testament?

enilove

Leah shuab was kidnapped by the Boko haram and taken to the forest to be molested. Her ambitions have been dashed to pieces . Is that good to you?
To pray for such not to happen again is evil ?

You are right that we should pray against terrorists of all kinds and religons. However, your message seem to be against Islam as a whole even the so called peaceful yoruba Muslims. Why is that? Concerning Leah Sharibu, it is man's wickedness to man. What would you say about the girl from Edo state who was gang raped and brutally killed in a church?

To pray so that the Muslims will not destroy our properties and kill innocent ones is not Biblical ?

But even so called Christians who grew up in Christian homes in the South have been Kidnappers and Yahoo boys. I think you need to extend your prayers to the country as a whole. The entire country is fvckd up, both Christians and Muslims.

About 3000 souls were killed by the Muslims when the world trade centre building was raised down by an aircraft of the Jihadist in September 11 2000 in the US.
If your family or your children had been among them or among those killed by the Boko Haram , would you pray for them ?

Man's inhumanity to Man, that's what it is. It comes in the guise of politics, religon, culture, etc.

It is Biblical to pray against evil

True. But the country as a whole have become evil. If you don't have BokoHaram problem, you still have problem of kidnappers, ritualists, etc. The God or Jesus I know cannot be bothered about only one side of evil in the country simply because they are Muslims.
What you should know is that both Christians and Muslims are actually delusional. It doesn't stop God from loving them or giving them his sun.

Dtruthspeaker:
Whow! This is very hard in writing! Let me shrink it.

Eg You Cheated on your wife! Do you think it is only 1 person you inflicted pain on?

No, they are many!

Number 1 is God your Creator, Who warned you not to do it but you did not listen and He even went as far as helping you to by doing one or two things to scatter your plan on cheating yet you accomplished it, so measure, how pained will He Be that you Disobeyed Him and then you thwarted His Help and Assistance?

2 your wife! Movies have already shown you how angry she shall be

3 Then She shall still report you 2 God Again. Increased wahala!

4) Your Daughter/Daughters, how angry shall they be?

5, Your sons, 6, Your in laws, 7 your family,

So check it, how many people are crying and how many people have you wounded?

And I have not started counting oh, for remember the boyfriend or prospecting boyfriend of your slay mama too is also affected!

So measure the Pains on ground and.what quantity is it, if you can,

And count the number of persons who have a case against you, if you do not already have more than 20 Complainants Excluding God oh!

Still not making sense. So after counting and multiplying all these, how does the total equate to eternity? Even if you multiply them all by 100 or a 1000, would it give you infinity? What if someone only told a white lie to save his family just before he died, would the maths be thesame? You write as though you know what eternity is or you can truly imagine it. Can you imagine Infinity in mathematics?

MrNipplesLover:
Thank you, Lord.


❤❤❤❤

This your white boy Jesus picture is somehow in my eye.

Dtruthspeaker:
It is meant to for you to pay for Each and Every drop of Pain and Suffering you gave to each and every soul, both God and man, maybe Angels etc multiplied by the number of Souls, multiplied by the number of offences, multiplied by the number of times those offences were committed, multiplied by the time, days or weeks those offences were running, multiplied by ... You get it as Michael Bolton sang "Forever isn't long enough!"

What does this even mean? Explain in clear terms.

Jesus actually preached about a Kingdom of God ruled by him ( the messaiah) to be set up in this world. However, the Kingdom is not made of this World but it comes from above hence the kingdom does not appear in the same manner as other kingdoms of the world e.g by defending against or conquering the enemy.

The kingdom of God though comes when the children of God live their lives as though it's already here, then they become the light of the world, and the world shall see the son of man in all of his glory.

There were specific kingdom teachings and parables jesus gave his followers for them to quickly usher in this kingdom of God.

omonnakoda:
Did you read and comprehend what you quoted before saying I am mistaken?

Did I say Jesus taught that to the Pharisees?

If you do not understand English it is not my role to help you

What you have said is completely off point and tangential.


The point is that in those days there was a practice of calling Pharisees and other religious leaders; "Rabbi" which when translated could mean My Master ,My Teacher or Father

This is what was in contention here. The idea was to bring an end to that practice

So what has changed between the pharisees and today's Christian leaders who are still called Farher? If Jesus forbade the practice of the pharisees, then why are Christians imbibing thesame practice?

hoopernikao:
Thank God you said Peter a second shepherd. We are getting close.

You don't have to know Greek, that's the reason you have books like STRONG CONCORDANCE to help you out. Neglecting what was now presented to you as cultural meaning by such book is what is bad.

I have shown you what was used.
Jesus used same words that was used for God and himself as shepherd. One who rule over. That is clear enough in the Bible.

Now, trying to explain away this will lead to strong-willed.

So the basics is?

Who is a shepherd? One who rule and have control over lambs, sheep or people.

Did Jesus told Peter to shepherd his lambs? Yes.

So, what responsibility is given to Peter? Responsibility of a shepherd, a ruler, a controller.

You must get this well and not explain it away. Using caretaker is a way of dodging the exact meaning of the word used.

So, whether second or third shepherd, the authority was delegated and given to him to rule over the flock of Jesus. This is the fact of the scriptures and consistent with the practice and the teaching of the new testament.

So are you saying we have two or more shepherds over the sheep?