Jephz:
from king james version
Ephesians 5vs 1,2 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
this verse mentions that. Jesus gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and SACRIFICE TO GOD... how can that possible if he is GOD??
........

1 Timothy 2:5 King James Version (KJV)
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;...here d Bible shows us that Jesus is not God but a mediator btw God and men ...


John 8:42 King James Version (KJV)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.......God sent Jesus... which means. he is not God...........


Acts 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:...Jesus a man approved of God ...........




with this I can say that Jesus Christ is not Jehovah God

Bro jephz, just watch as they'll come and dance azonto with your and dribble themselves into more confusion.

analice107:

Listen Dolphinheart, it's a total waste of time having a discussion with you when you have your Watchtower Blinders on. You see what watchtower has programmed you to see. Why waste my time on you. When we die, we shall find out. If there's no hellfire, I will have nothing to lose, but if there is, which am certain there's, then sorry for you.
Jesus kept talking about hellfire, but you turn around and call it something else. Pls go on.

Always saying this things all the time yet you can't do without mentioning the watchtower blinders!

ichuka:

Yes,it's not by mouth but with your heart then you can confess with your mouth.and not just knowing some truth about Him but knowing Him in Person.by knowing Him in Person you can fellowship with Him personally.

Yes must know the truth about him it's important, not just some!

God gave Jesus authority to create himself as you said, fine. At least someone gave authority for the other to create himself? After that they became equal? Is that it?

brocab:
Listening to myself would be a lot better listening to you.

dolphinheart:


that's how he types, he does not try to arrange his points in an orderly manner. One has to read his posts at least 3 times to understand what he is trying to say, and even after that , you might not understand him. The color seperation only makes it worse.

Hmmmmm u dey try

Sarang:


Humans are imperfect being but I will tell you this.
I for one has never seen an organization as caring,loving and understanding as Jehovahs witnesses..ALL OVER THE WORLD!

I WILL ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS BE ONE.

How do you manage to understand what he is saying? His story is not always coordinated.

Just listen to yourself!

brocab:
God created Himself didn't He? Or are you also into the big bang theory? I am only trying to draw you JW's in on this subject, and I guess it worked?
No-where in the bible did it say God had given Michael His authority to become Jesus. Was it written in the Watchtower magazines?
So I was hoping someone belonging to your organization could shed a little light on this subject, because you JW's think otherwise, about God's creation, and you can't seem to understand what the bible is really about.
So if one of you could explain to us why you believe an archangel was sent to earth in spirit and was given a new identity to be born as a man "Jesus" Then at least you could give us more information on this subject. Because every time I have spoken out about God and Jesus, it's always a JW who had denied the truth about them both. So if you are trying to convince us to believe you, then its best to tell us, why" why do you all believe your teachings are right' while the God in the bible is wrong' at least one of you could explain why' you believe it

brocab:
{John 14:9-10} Could you show me in word where Jesus told Philip he is right and he is wrong? Does this mean your theory is far above the word of God, and the lord's role was sent by God only as a messenger, and not our savour?

Anyway why can't I address Jesus as Michael, there is no time to shy away from the truth, and the truth has always reminded us the truth will set us free, the JW's don't need to hide away from the people. God the Father had given Michael a chance to become Jesus, and from a ministering spirit Michael now has every right to sit as God, calling himself "Immanuel God with us" and now sits on God's right side.
You should be proud, without holding back any truth about the JW's, God had made Michael in His own image, and gave Him His full authority to be God who created Himself to walk amongst men in the flesh, and died for His people because God so loved the world He sent His only begotten Son to save sinners, the spirit of an archangel and the Spirit of God have become one spirit. And both spirits have become one man in His own image.
Is this how your story sounds?
But the bible say's in {Hebrews 1:5} {Hebrews 1:13} Which of the angels did God ever say you are My Son, and you sit here on My right side?

So God gave Jesus authority to create himself? Na waoo, which portion of the Bible supports that or you just formulate that one? Where in the Bible did God give Jesus authority to create himself?
Let's start from there.

Syncan:


They used awake pamphlets, and worshiped in kingdom halls.

We are not talking about where they worshipped, the question is did they use cross in worship?

Syncan:


Its no more early christians now, but followers of Jesus, that you're interested in. Go study.

My brother is there any difference between early Christians and followers of Christ?
Running up and down won't help you ooo.
OK show me where cross was used in worship in the Bible.

Boomark:


Bro you don't have to change them. Just make sure expose them well well. You saw how they are running from my questions? Thats how I do it. The sensible ones will see it and run from idol worship.

Syncan:


The message of the bible is the messasge of the cross. May I not boast in anything else except the cross. Gal.6:14. I am not ashamed like you are to show the cross to the world, on it I was redeemed.

Did Paul or the Galatians use cross in worship?

Syncan:


Of what use is the answer to you? When I told you something the early Christians used, you said they were wrong, so why do you now want to know this, since you are right and they were wrong.

Did the followers of Jesus use cross or fish you mentioned?

Syncan:


Oh, jehova witness was in error when they were using it, I see. So how are you now sure you are right this time? Not to worry, na here I de, it will soon change again, your truth changes with time.

Justify the use of cross with the Bible, that's my own!

Syncan:



This is why you should study, study about the religion you profess, stop arguing in ignorance, now a sign even the apostles used is what you say is not right. I told you before, when the missionaries came to your fathers, they came with the cross, they destroyed your father's gods and shrines, they planted the cross on forbidden lands and claimed them for Christ, they blessed the people with the sign of the cross, they wore the cross on their bodies, they were true Christians, spreading the goodnews to all nations, and the Most High wrought many miracles through them. You without the cross how far?

Please my question is did the early Christians used it?

Syncan:


Stop reading junks, constantine was an emperor, he was not a Pope. Before the cross, Christians used the fish as their symbol, do you know that too?

Interesting, the early Christians? Well weather fish or meat it's not right, we should follow the patterns set by the early Christians closely!

ichuka:

Who said anything of cross worshiping?
Dude accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and not ur imaginary Jehovah.then can you See and understand the scriptures.
Even other occultic groups knows who they are serving but you guys don't even know your god.

Accepting Jesus is not by mouth, it also includes knowing the truth about him and how to worship him!

Ubenedictus:
HEHEHE, i'll leave u with the jehovah witnes judge rutherford.
“The cross of Christ is the greatest pivotal truth of the divine arrangement, from which radiate the hopes of men.”
Joseph Rutherford. The Harp of God (Brooklyn, NY: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1921) 141.

Yes Jehovah's witnesses used cross in past and realized it's wrong and adjusted likewise many other religious group, it takes courage to go against the crowd!

ichuka:

You are in ERROR!!!
Not Knowing the Scripture or the The Power of God.
Mart:22:29/Mark12:24
The scriptures and the Power of God are two different things and you guys knowledge of both are futile.(Una no know Jack)
Without the Power of God the knowledge of the scripture can never be known.
Am doing all this because of the viewers and not your kind(JW and co)
You reject Jesus as God,you reject the Cross and still claim you are Christains?
You guys are in the same league with occultic men PERIOD!!!!

Rejected cross? Just show me one scripture that shows the early Christians used cross in worship.

Ubenedictus:
U just couldnt help mentioning me could u?
i have been in NL long enough to know a useless thread, heck i have even made d mistake of debating on such thread. i will not do it again.
the concept of d cross was revolutionized by Jesus, the symbol of death, despair, sin and curse is now d symbol of life, hope, victory and the power of God.
that is my contribution, accept it or nt, just keep off my mention

Revolutionized?
When it's clear that Christ was impaled not on cross but a pale or stake and cross was introduced by pegans. Na waoo.

Boomark:




Bro if you enter history, you will create room for them to enjoy. But when you make it strictly scriptural things with your ogbonge questions, you will see them running like tomorrow no dey.

Na true my brother, but I know it's not easy to change ones beliefs.

Ken4Christ:
I know the Jehovah witness cannot answer my questions about the body of Jesus. Rather, they are asking baseless questions. There are infallible proofs that Jesus resurrected bodily. Refute those proofs.

The Bible says one thing, the Jehovah witness will says another.

Tell Nairalanders what happened to the body of Jesus since you said he left his body behind. Only fools will believe your wicked lies. You can't even do that to your sons. You claim Jehovah must have dissolved the body of Jesus. Your punishment will be worse in the very hell you don't believe where your founders are already suffering torment. The demons there are waiting for you all unless you repent.

You cannot use the fact that Angels manifestation with bodies and even ate to prove your point that Jesus did not rise with his body. I don't claim to know everything but that which I know and stated very clearly in the Bible, I will say. Even the great Apostle Paul said, we know in part. I do believe Angels have bodies but they are spiritual bodies. If they don't have bodies, they cannot be seen. Only demons spirit don't have bodies. That is why they seek to posses people. The Holy Spirit also and even God himself don't have bodies. Let us not derail the issue on ground.

Jesus himself said, he is not a spirit. Are you saying Jesus doesn't know who he is. You know Jesus better than he knows himself. 'behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES as you have seen me.' Luke 24:39.

Jesus also said, 'Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it.' John 2:19. The Jews responded, 'Fourth and six years was this temple in building and will thou rear it up in 3 days? The writer John remarked, ' But he spake of the temple of his body ' John 2:21. This verse clearly reveals that Jesus predicted his death and bodily resurrection. And you Jehovah wickedness are telling the world Jesus did not rise bodily.

You know within your conscience that you are lying but pride will not let you change position.

Your governing body claims that they are the only true Prophets of God on earth. So, please interpret Luke 24:39 & John 2:19-21 to us. If you can't, hide yourself in shame or admit you are wrong.

You can be ridiculous ooo, must you guys always lie and say evil things against the witnesses?
Did the JWs ever told you Jesus didn't appear "flesh and blood" before his disciples? Besides it's not the witnesses, it's the Bible that said Christ was resurrected in spirit. You don't want to believe what the Bible teaches because it's making you beliefs contempt.
Now take a look at these portions of the Bible again.

Acts 13:34King James Version (KJV)

34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. (He was raised no more to return to corruption) 1 Corinthians 15:34-56 explains what corruption is: our flesh!

1 Peter 3:18New International Version (NIV)
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
( This portion doesn't need explanation, it clearly shows Christ was made alive in spirit. Don't you go with what the Bible says?)

Acts 10:40,41.
40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.
41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.

(The Bible again shows he was not seen by all except the witnesses chosen by God or his disciples, do you think it will be possible to convince people including his disciples that Christ has come back to life if nobody saw him?
They served as witnesses of Christ resurrection and were empowered to tell people which they did courageously.)

Why was it difficult for his disciples to recognize him? The Bible explains:
Luke 24:15-16King James Version (KJV)

15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

(Take not their eyes were holden that they should not know him, the fact that they fail to recognize him at first was for a reason!
He was no longer what he used to be! )

Verse 30&31 says 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Their eyes were opened according to the Bible so they were able to recognize him.

Why were their eyes made not to recognize him and was later made to recognize him?
Does it not tell you something?
Continuing the Bible said he varnished, can an ordinary flesh and blood varnish or get into a house with doors locked?

Consider this scripture too, John 6:51King James Version (KJV)

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jesus gave his flesh for the life of the world, will it make sense if he resurrect with it? No, it will mean he has not paid the debt!

These few scriptures shows he was made alive in spirit, that's the truth.

From your post I see why you are finding it difficult to believe he was resurrected in spirit, because he appeared flesh and blood and his body wasn't at the grave.
Angels in heaven materialized and even had sexual affairs with daughters of men.
God also sent angels who were able to appear with physical bodies, eat and do other things while among men, the patriarch Jacob even wrestled with an Angel.
Where are the bodies of these angels?
It's no big deal for the mighty son of God to appear in "flesh and blood" after his resurrection and you can't query God about what happened to the physical body after resurrection.

And lastly you said Angels have body and the demons don't. You can believe whatever you like but that's not true, there is no difference between angels and demons they are all spirits just that the demons have joined the devil in disobeying God.
Devil himself was a beautiful and intelligent creature, he was once part of God's family of spirit creatures.
He became the devil when he began opposing and disobeying God.
But maybe you can provide any scripture that shows the demons don't have body.
I hope people see the truth of the Bible concerning Jesus resurrection.

Boomark:

I see. It has always been like this. Catholics have nothing to offer as far as bible truth is concerned. I asked you which cross did he tell them carry and follow him, wooden cross? was Paul boasting over a carved wooden cross? Instead of answering, you keep repeating "carry your cross and follow me," because there is nothing to say in defense to making, bowing and kissing the cross.

Ubenedictus came and ran away when he saw it is Boomark again. I no boast o.

Meanwhile the OP has been UPDATED to reflect you guys poor defense to what you practice.

Syncan:


I have had a fair share of religious discuss and arguments on this forum, so I am not so in need of a discuss to jump into argument with just any one, especially one who tells brazen lies. Why should I be arguing with someone who claims there was a Pope Constantine that introduced cross to Christianity. Stop spreading falsehood.

Some scholars says Emperor Constantine was a Pope.
Anyways if you deny him being a Pope no wahala.
But he is revered as a saint!
My point however is that he introduced the use of cross in Christianity!
It's not about argument. It's about what's right.

Syncan:


I have had a fair share of religious discuss and arguments on this forum, so I am not so in need of a discuss to jump into argument with just any one, especially one who tells brazen lies. Why should I be arguing with someone who claims there was a Pope Constantine that introduced cross to Christianity. Stop spreading falsehood.

Some scholars says Emperor Constantine was a Pope.
Anyways if you deny him being a Pope no wahala.
But he is revered as a saint!
My point however is that he introduced the use of cross in Christianity!

Syncan:


I have had a fair share of religious discuss and arguments on this forum, so I am not so in need of a discuss to jump into argument with just any one, especially one who tells brazen lies. Why should I be arguing with someone who claims there was a Pope Constantine that introduced cross to Christianity. Stop spreading falsehood.

Some scholars says emperor Constantine was a Pope.
Anyways if you deny him being a Pope no wahala.
But he is revered as a saint!
My point however is that he introduced the use of cross in Christianity!

No matter how we try to justify it the cross is integrated into the scriptures, the original language rather means pale or upright pole.
It's organs that made use if cross long before Christ came.

The CROSS was introduced to the Christian Congregation by Pope Constantine in order to unite paganism and Christianity.

Crosses are the world's oldest good luck charms, talismans, or amulets and are found in every continent of the world.

This demonic object (CRUX in Latin) entered the vocabulary of most European languages through the corrupt Latin Vulgate version of Jerome.


A HOLY Bible and HOLY Scriptures once again with the CROSS removed!!

Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament. There are NO SUCH words as CROSS, CRUCIFY, or CRUCIFIED in the Old Testament—except in the new perversions!!

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a TREE (Gk. xulon)" (Acts 5:29-30).

The cross is a symbol for the great mother goddess!!

Crosses are the world's oldest good luck charms, talismans, or amulets and are found in every continent of the world. They represent the worship of the great mother goddess of paganism. They originated at Babylon and spread to all the world via Egypt.

Syncan:



All your rigmarole cannot help you. The questions you ask have no connection with the topic of discuss oga. If cross is such a bad thing, why did Jesus tell us to carry ours and follow him, why did St. Paul pray that we boast of nothing but the cross, why did he continue preaching Christ crucified even though Christ is in heaven? Yet you say it is an affront to depict that act because Christ is now in heaven, lol. Oga you fail this one, just admit it.

Syncan:



All your rigmarole cannot help you. The questions you ask have no connection with the topic of discuss oga. If cross is such a bad thing, why did Jesus tell us to carry ours and follow him, why did St. Paul pray that we boast of nothing but the cross, why did he continue preaching Christ crucified even though Christ is in heaven? Yet you say it is an affront to depict that act because Christ is now in heaven, lol. Oga you fail this one, just admit it.

My brother that we preach about Christ is a different thing.
That we preach about how Christ suffered and was finally put to death on a torture stake is different from carving cross or using it in worship.
We are not the first followers of Christ, he had early disciples. Have you ever heard that the Bible said they used cross in worship or while praying.

Let me tell you one secret, maybe you never knew it.
That cross has long been in use by those who never knew the true God long before Christ came to the earth. It's a worship instrument for pegans at first.
Now Google and see how it was adopted by Christians with time.
The Bible has no record of followers of Christ ever using cross in worship, it was adopted as time goes by.

ichuka:

If you don't know what the Cross is,how can you experience the Power of God?
Let me help the viewers.
The Cross is the place of sacrifice likening to the Altar in the Old Testament in Hebrews chapter10.

I was thinking you are going to explain the meaning of cross, I asked the question for you to explain it.

It might interest you to know that cross is a Latin word (Cruz).

The Bible was not written in Latin.
Where you have cross in most bibles today in the Greek language which is one of the original language the Bible was written you'll rather see (stauros) which means an upright stake or straight pole.
The Jews used to hang a cursed person or criminal on a tree or stake.
Galatians 3:13, Acts 5:30 and 10:39 says Jesus Christ was hunged on a tree as a cursed person.
Deuteronomy 21:22,23 shows the Jews are used to hanging people on a stake long before Christ came.

So starous Greek meaning of doesn't mean cross it rather means a torture stake or a pole where people are hanged to make them die agonizing death.

While Cruz is a Latin word that when translated into English means cross and it's pegan nations who knew nothing about the true God that were using it in worship long before Christ came. Google and see how and when it became part of items used as worship in the church.

However God actually warns us against using any image in our worship to him, we should rather worship him in spirit and truth.
Using images in worship is idolatary!! God condemned it.

Okay, I see.

Muafrika2:

Those who have not seen Him but believe anyway are stronger Christians.

dajoaneke:
You and I are the Jesus we see. "Whatsoever you do to the least of your brethren, you have done unto me".
However, some people are pure in heart and will see God someday or get a close experience with God here on earth. Only iniquity keeps God far from us. God will not behold sin.
Last year though I had a dream (vision). In it I stood before a great mountain and behind me was chaos, pandemonium filled the face of the earth. As I looked up to the mountain, smoke and fire raised to the sky and became a hand of flame. This finger wrote 7 things in Aramaic and I said " I do not understand"... The translation to the first was revealed in english. This is the closest I've come to the realm of the spirit. Jesus or God can appear in any form. This is what I believe.
Back to your question now. Divine celestial manifestation is a life transforming experience. It's a privilage and grace. You will never remain the same

Please you said pure in heart can see God, can anyone see God and still live?

0ubenji:
D prob wit dis jesus seein wey dey tire me be say...
Aw una take sure say na jesus una see?
Cox I m certain most peeps are lookin for d face dey see on posters evriwhr worldwide...dat oyinbo man pix.
Abi jesus dey tel dem for d dream/trance say "hey dude..it's me Mr. Jesus"

I have thought about this too, there has been no agreement as to how Jesus look like.